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The Almighty Buck Businesses

Do F/OSS Contributions Make You More Marketable? 69

Posted by Cliff from the looks-good-on-the-resume dept.
Bucking for a Raise asks: "Assuming that Free/Open Source contributions qualify as 'experience' in a professional sense, it would seem to follow that contributing would make one more marketable as an employee or contractor. Personally, I feel that I've gained invaluable experience from my contributions. However, I'm curious to know what other Slashdot readers have experienced: do potential employers/clients feel that it increases your worth? Does it depend on the visibility or perceived value of the project to which you contribute? Do the employers/clients you've seen place any value in, or even know about, F/OSS?"
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Do F/OSS Contributions Make You More Marketable? More

Do F/OSS Contributions Make You More Marketable?

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  • But that's what I base my consulting business around, so I guess it it sort of follows that it would:-)

  • More marketable? (Score:3, Funny)

    by KillerHamster ( 645942 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:26PM (#11838916) Homepage
    I can just see some former employers of mine freaking out at the idea of contributing to Free Software. "What! You mean, you just gave away all that intellectual property!? And you expect me to hire you?" Probably better not to mention it.

  • I think... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Cumshot ( 859434 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:26PM (#11838925)
    it would definitely make you more marketable since it shows potential employers that you code for the sake of coding and not for the monetary profit gained by coding. In other words it shows that you love what you do.

    • Re:I think... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ottothecow ( 600101 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @08:14PM (#11839845) Homepage
      At the University of Chicago, they have a Free Software Practicum class in their CS division where you essentially pick a strong OSS project and work on it by yourself or with a team. Obviously this ranges from working on a few bugzilla entries for a project to working on adding features to something like Sunbird (PDA Sync anybody?). Part of the class requires that your work gets accepted into the projects codebase before you get credit.

      I think that the classes requirements essentially show what would look the best on your resume. If you can point to something that YOU did in a decently major project (as in something they will have heard of), it will probobly help you and differentiate you from the tons of other applicants who spent their time coding "Bob's freeware XP launch bar". Think of what would happen if your resume is read by someone who uses thunderbird or sunbird in the future and you can say that you played an integral part in implementing PDA syncing.

      • Re:I think... (Score:4, Informative)

        by 4of12 ( 97621 ) on Friday March 04, 2005 @10:54AM (#11844010) Homepage Journal

        Part of the class requires that your work gets accepted into the projects codebase before you get credit.

        If someone took and passed a course like this, I would save that resume.

        Getting your new work accepted into the code base means you have to demonstrate

        1. technical excellence, code proficiency that all the key decision makers approve of
        2. people skills, so you don't piss off the existing code repository mavens.
        I've seen the tragedy of technically proficient people having their contributions end up on the floor in scrap heap because they effectively have an attitude of "Fuck you if you don't appreciate my brilliance."

        Likewise, personable people with no technical proficiency can open doors, but have nothing real to bring to the table.

        Someone with both skills is valuable.

      • ...to working on adding features to something like Sunbird (PDA Sync anybody?).
        Take a look at MultiSync [multisync.org]. It can sync e.g. Evolution2 with Palm/WinCE/Cellphones. It doesn't sync with Sunbird yet but somebody is working on Sunbird-multisync-plugin already.
        • how about a windows sync though. As it stands, you can export and then import into palm desktop but that isnt enough for the average palm user.

          I'm trying to setup a simple distributed calendar for a small office. Sunbird and a webdav server works perfectly. What doesnt work perfectly is sunbird + iCalendar on a webdav server with several users who want pda sync. iCalendar can't subscribe to and publish to the same calendar so its either read-only or overwrite the old data. PDA syncing is still a pr

    • it shows potential employers that you code for the sake of coding and not for the monetary profit gained by coding

      In other words, employers will think:
      "Hey! What the hell am I paying all these other chumps for? This Guys givin it away FOR FREE!!!"

  • Valuable volunteer experience. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by atomic-penguin ( 100835 ) <wolfe21@@@marshall...edu> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:34PM (#11839000) Homepage Journal
    Volunteer experience is valuable for a resume. Does it necessarily qualify as professional experience, not exactly. The value of it depends on a few factors...
    1. The importance or size of the project.
    2. The party who is considering it.

    For example, a bigger, more notable project will look more impressive. Also, it really depends on how familiar the hiring parties are with OSS. I have been turned down for jobs recently due to 'lack of experience', because potential employers failed to recognise volunteer experience as 'professional experience'.
    • Well, perhaps they failed to recognize it as such. But also, perhaps you could have done more to sell it as such, and organize your resume, coversheets, and interview materials appropriately. Just speaking as someone who is a PHB for a living.

  • Depends (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sfjoe ( 470510 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:36PM (#11839022)
    Do the employers/clients you've seen place any value in, or even know about, F/OSS?"

    It probably depends on the culture of the company. A company that values processes, procedures, reporting and bureacracy probably won't care much for open-source contributions. On the other hand, a company that values creativity and initative will be impressed.

    • Re:Depends (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Incongruity ( 70416 )
      I think sfjoe's in the right track -- it'll be a bit of a fit-test for you and your prospective employer. If you firmly believe in F/OSS and value the time that you (and others) give to such projects, then you're serving yourself well by including it in your resume and finding an employer who values it in you. When you enjoy your job and the environment that you work it, it'll be worth it.
    • Does it make me more marketable in a job hunt? Probably... but it has been a lot of years since I've tried.

      But does it make any difference at the current job?
      No, not really... and it is an uphill battle to release open source software in an environment where there is a worry about whether or not my doing so will mean that they lose out on possible revenue.

      I get a lot of support at the lower levels (such as my supervisor, and the director of the department.) But when it comes to the institution level thi

  • Sure (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheTomcat ( 53158 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:36PM (#11839026) Homepage
    I'm a web developer (PHP, primarily). Web developers get hobs based on their portfolios. However, I don't particularly like working in an environment that is condusive to building a nice portfolio (flashy, public sites).

    I work in a closed environment. On intranet and back-end systems. I can't put these in my portfolio. So, I spend a decent amount of time supporting my language, and I work on various php.net related projects [zend.com]. This lets any future employers see what I'm capable of doing, even though they might not be able to see the work I'm currently doing, professionally.

    Having an @php.net address (although quite easy to get if done right) is instant credibility (at least for anyone I'd want to work for).

    I know of several key PHP contributors that have been offered (and have taken) positions as a direct result of their contributions.

    So, in short: yes. (-:

    S

    • Re:Sure (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm a web developer (PHP, primarily). Web developers get hobs based on their portfolios.

      Considering one definition of hob [princeton.edu] is a small grotesque supernatural creature that makes trouble for human beings, I can see where PHP experience would give you some familiarity with them.

  • Anything that sets you apart. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:43PM (#11839095) Homepage Journal
    Well, it'd probably get me to scrutinize your resume a bit more closely, which is a huge advantage for you.

    If you had code in a release of a well known project Apache or the Linux kernel, it would probably almost guarantee you a phone call back and probably an interview. Howewver if you were bullshitting, it would be a very short interview.

  • Depends on the quality and the employer (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:48PM (#11839139)
    I've been asked about open source contributions I've made in job interviews, but that doesn't mean it's all good.

    I've contributed things ranging from ports of linux to new PPC northbridge platforms, to plugins for GAIM that were hacked together after a few to many pints of stout. Let me tell you, it's embarassing explaining to a commercial software development company what a converter from Z64 to V64 roms is used for during a job interview.

    Be careful what you put your name on when you post code to the internet. What you put out there can hurt you just as much as harm...
    • Heh. I meant hurt just as much as help...
    • Gah. You did it wrong then.

      Tell them you have worked on software code to properly control Macintosh motherboard chipsets all the way to plugins to Instant messengers to increase functionality.

      Leave out all semi-ethical or romhacking stuff, unless it's Zsnes or older system emulators. Better yet, say that you've worked on real-time assembly code-translations between 2 very different systems. And List the processors used. R65000, X86, Mips, Z80, et cetera.
      • Wish I could have...

        They had printouts of code and such that they found online, and askend me to describe what each program did and what it was for. :)

        I got the job anyway (I didn't take it, but I got the offer), but it was uncomfortable, and it could have gone the other way on that one item.
        • Yikes, I feel for you.. I didnt realise they actually had the printouts and grilling you with them ;-( .

          Still, what they did was quite UNprofessional. I'd have asked what sort of hobbies, projects, and other things you do in yoru spare time. I'd then zero in on extracirrcular software activities. But, it sounds they were accusatory and harsh.

          Good luck ;)

  • Yes it helps (Score:2, Funny)

    by marcus ( 1916 )
    When the potential boss asks what kind of programs I have written using foo and I suggest he google for foo and my name and the first three hits are about my contributions to three different online foo based projects.

    Publishing your code is a major display of confidence.

    • Re:Yes it helps (Score:3, Funny)

      by dago ( 25724 )
      So you're a C++ newbie [google.ch] ?

      • Hahaha, no, actually I am a C++ despiser! ;-)

        Substitute "java" for "foo" and my real name for "marcus". Got me hired, twice. Both times, after the interviewer brought that page up on his laptop, conversation changed from job oriented to general, by the watercooler style, BSing. They *knew* I was capable, instantly.
  • ...the guy who was interviewing me was wearing Birkenstocks [birkenstock.com], he sported a really long beard and was wearing nipple rings.
    • How did you know he was wearing nipple rings?

      Maybe your interviews are a little different over in Europe than in the US.

      • It was for Exxon (of all places), and I could tell because he wore a ill-fitting (i.e., tight over his rotund toso) shirt that left nothing to the imagination.

        >Maybe your interviews are a little different over in Europe than in the US.

        God, I hope so. I'm tired of these Wankers in the states who think "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" to be the Ultimate Interview Question.

        • Technically, if it conformed to his body regardless of its shape, I'd say that it was an inappropriately tight-fitted shirt.

          I wear tighter-fitted clothing on most occasions, although im relatively skinny.

  • PHB says... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wonkavader ( 605434 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @06:56PM (#11839211)
    I'm a pointy haired boss. Or rather, I'm in the hiring process for all our tech hires.

    Open Source projects are an INSTANT door opener. You have work on one in on your resume, you get an interview. Period.

    That's not because this is some corporate give-away, but because we're techies, here. We want to talk to you, to find out how that went, what you did, etc. We're curious. And that means you get the interview. Most of the resumes we see don't get an interview, so you're already in the running for the job, unlike the guy with similar resume who didn't get called.

    Plus the drive to do this sort of thing means you're not a slug. We get a lot of slugs with VERY good resumes. They waste our time. I've never had a slug come in who had OSS authorship.
    • Same here to a degree. However, I ask subtle questions to try to guage the zealot factor of the applicants. Even a hint of zeslotry can be a deal killer.

    • What's really frustrating is extending/enhancing (and, obviously embracing) some F/OSS code, carefully ensuring the modified source gets redistributed to those to whom one's employer distributes binaries, with nothing returned to the community at large -- Oh sure, the companies we distribute to (all 12 or so) have the freedom to redistribute... but, having spent million$ for our changes, aren't about to give them away, mostly because they don't want their competition (i.e. the other 11) to get them for free
    • I'll concur with that. I'm VP Engineering at a venture-funded startup, and OSS contributions are a big plus. I'd qualify this a bit more than the parent, but if you've made a reasonably significant contribution to a "real" OSS project, then I probably want to talk with you. Likewise if you've done so much as a bug fix in a project that's related to what we're doing (our architecture is "J2EE without EJB" - Spring Framework, Hibernate, etc.)

  • It can (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SunFan ( 845761 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @07:02PM (#11839272)

    Actually getting code into a non-trivial project means you were able to navigate unresponsive mailing lists and over-booked bug tracking systems to actually get something done. That's not a small feat, IMO.

  • Job (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BenjyD ( 316700 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @07:20PM (#11839447)
    I got my job (starting in April) almost entirely because of my work on a FOSS project. The company had donated some hardware to help development a year ago and basically said "don't forget us when you come to job hunting". A year later, I send them an email and they hire me after reviewing the current state of the project source code.
    It's a good way to build up a portfolio of code to show to an employer, it shows dedication and organisation and that you enjoy development.
    Of course, the fact that employers can see your source code can hurt your chances too ;)

  • Does it show you can do the work they want? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by andy@petdance.com ( 114827 ) <andy@petdance.com> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @07:33PM (#11839538) Homepage
    If your software experience is what the potential employer wants, then yes of course it will help.

    There's no one size fits all, however. If you're applying for a COBOL position doing payroll applications, they probably won't care that you've written Apache modules. It's all about being applicable.

    One of the great things about open source software that helps me, as a hiring manager, is that it lets me see your code. I always want to see a candidate's code as part of the interview process, and open source stuff available on the web makes it real easy for me.

  • Of course it matters. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Telastyn ( 206146 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @08:01PM (#11839750)
    If a developer has gone through and say... written network card drivers used by thousands of users, that's pretty damned impressive! It doesn't matter if they make tons of money [by doing it for 3com or whomever] from it or not [by doing it for a free OS].

    Cool stuff is universal.
  • If you list it properly it will probably be recognized by both HR drones and by technical personel.

    Of course techs and managers with actual experience will acknowledge coding work for what it is worth regardless of who you did it for (the bigger and more popular the better though, if you screw up the manager needs to be able to justify hiring you).

    HR on the other hand is looking to sit if you fit the criteria needed for the job. If you spend 6 months working on an open source project, you list it as a pla

  • IBM certainly likes it (Score:3, Informative)

    by FooAtWFU ( 699187 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @09:19PM (#11840276) Homepage
    I'm applying for IBM's Extreme Blue [ibm.com] internship this summer (gotten past the first two interviews, hope to take the IPATO test tomorrow or something). If you've done something notable for an open source project of some sort, you get major props towards them accepting you.

  • For the companies worth working for... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SwellJoe ( 100612 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @10:17PM (#11840641) Homepage
    It's a definite door-opener, as others have suggested.

    I hire development contractors nearly every month, and every single one of them has been chosen because they proved themselves capable by working on interesting, well-designed, projects. It's not the only way to prove it, but any proprietary software on a resume is out of my reach. I can't read the code.

    I'm searching now for a part-time jack-of-all-trades to help out in my new office (i.e. telephone support, perl, python, bash, documentation, some basic book-keeping, building/installing servers, etc.) and I'll be much more likely to hire someone with some Open Source projects on their resume. Not only that, but I'll be much more likely to pay them at the higher end of the pay scale.

    Open Source developers are great because I can see the code to get a solid grasp on their abilities, see that they truly enjoy the more complex aspects of technology (because why else would they be writing code for no money?), and I can see that they are more likely to want to take an active part in the kind of business I'm building. I'll probably enjoy having them in the office more, too.

    That's not to say that all, or even most, companies that are hiring developers, consider all of these things as positive...it's just that I know that Open Source friendly companies are becoming more common, and you're probably more likely to rise to the top of the resume heap at the companies that will be more fun to work for.

    Just think about it like this:

    Who would you rather work for:

    Google or Microsoft? Which one is more likely to hire an Open Source developer? Right!

    Extreme examples, I know, but I think the trend holds for the majority of industries that develop software. I could be wrong, of course, but every time I try to think of a comparison of predominantly proprietary vs. predomintantly OSS, I come up thinking the OSS company would be more fun to work for. Zope vs. Vignette? Red Hat vs. SCO (pre-lawsuits, even)?

    Put your projects on the resume. Be proud of your OSS work. Even if the company you're hoping to sign on with doesn't do Open Source, taking pride in your work always looks good to potential employers.
  • I landed my last two jobs in part because of my contributions to projects on my own time. Employers value the fact that you work on things out of your own interest and not just because you're being paid to do so. It shows you as a more motivated and creative individual..

  • I didn't get the last interview I applied for because I'm not a heavy linux kernel developer. I've worked with the FreeBSD kernel, but that isn't even of interest, because they know nothing about FreeBSD, while they know linux.

    Which is strange, because the FreeBSD license is a lot easier for them to deal with, and I suspect the FreeBSD kernel would be just as good for them. (If not better)

    • While that might be the case, it also helps you filter out employers that aren't right for you, as well, doesn't it? ...though I can understand that when it's a matter of putting food on the table, that might not matter to you...

      • I would argue that they are being too picky. I can't be an expert in KDE, GNOME, linux, FreeBSD, netBSD, Wine, FCC, and X.org. (just to name a few, some of which are too big to be an expert on the entire thing)

        In the case I cited, there are less than 1000 people in the world who meet their qualifications, and most of them have good jobs already. In many cases, they have that ideal job where their boss doesn't tell them what to work on.

        Linux kernel wasn't the only part of the requirements. There were s

        • This is a severe societal problem that I see coming down the road towards us.

          Especially in the technical realm, it's very difficult (practically impossible) to get a job if you haven't had a number of years of experience doing the exact same job.

          Spent 5 years debugging networking drivers on embedded i386? Not good enough, we are debugging networking drivers on embedded PPC. Ask my wife, who despite a few years of PC and laptop repair experience, got turned down for a job because they used Dells and her

  • Another reason not to be an ass on the lists... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ajayrockrock ( 110281 ) on Friday March 04, 2005 @02:13AM (#11841959) Homepage
    Back in the day, I helped out bring PHPSlash [sf.net] out of a funk and cobble up a couple of releases for the team. I eventually became one of the project leaders for a few years and was nice to most of the people on the lists.

    Then I was laid off, got depressed, and lost all my drive to code. After about a year of no work the first break I got was from a guy who I helped install phpslash on the phpslash-users list years prior.

    --Ajay

  • Yes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Flying Purple Wombat ( 787087 ) on Friday March 04, 2005 @09:19AM (#11843299)
    I'm a programmer with 21 years experience, was a manager for 3 years (didn't like the PHB gig), currently a lead programmer. I filter the stacks of resumes that HR sends to my managers (clueless PHBs). I choose who will be interviewed.

    If you list F/OSS projects on your resume, I will be more interested. You are more likely to get an interview.

    Anything that makes your resume stand out from the rest is good. You probably wouldn't want to work for anyone that counts F/OSS as a negative.
  • I have found that being able to pull a laptop out of my bag and demonstrate a relevant piece of free software at a job interview puts me ahead of the crowd and often gets me the contract. I wont say that my software is the best there is or that it has got me every job I've applied for but it has certainly made a BIG diference. If nothing else it gives me something to fill the time they could be spending thinking of more difficult to answer questions.
  • I don't see any other postings with a story similar to mine, so...

    I was a developer in the financial industry for 10 years. All I ever developed on professionally was Windows and MS tools. I tried for years to get management to look at open source, or even anything non-MS, but with no success. Attempts to get jobs not using Windows were impossible without experience. I started to contribute a few modules to an open source project. Two months later and I'm now in an all open-source development company.
  • "If you're applying for a COBOL position doing payroll applications, they probably won't care that you've written Apache modules..."

    The fact that you have a lot of computer technical skills shows that you could certainly master COBOL in a week. COBOL WAS DESIGNED TO BE EASY TO CODE, AND IT IS.

    However, the management will be eyeing you to jump ship just as soon as a "more modern" opportunity lands at your doorstep.

    So, it depends on how desparate the management is to find a COBOL guy. If it comes d

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