Comp Sci Programs at Junior Colleges? 105
An anonymous reader asks: "What place does a Computer Science Department play in a Community College? I recently started taking classes out of an interest in learning new things and getting a few college credits toward my first degree. I come to find out (only 1 semester after I started) that none of these credits will transfer to a bachelor's degree at one of our state schools. Many of the courses here are 'applied technology' such as Linux Administration/Installation or Web programming with PHP, but the local University only accepts their own 'theory based' courses such as Data Structures, Theory of operating systems, and so forth. I was wondering where a community college fits in, has anyone seen a great community college program recently and if anyone knows how these programs are designed?"
Wrong courses (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know your state, but I know that in Maryland, the community colleges, colleges, and universities have a shared system. You are guaranteed that any course you take in a state community college will transfer to any state school (and most non-state schools too).
It all has to do with acredidation (Score:2)
Re:It all has to do with acredidation (Score:2)
Don't count on it. A university may accept them as just numerical credit hours to apply toward the final number needed to graduate. But they're under no obligation to count them for any other degree requirements, such as the particular classes required for a given major. The classes need to correspond to actual classes that the university teaches, or they won't be accepted. (When I applied to an art
Re:Wrong courses (Score:2)
Most of your first 3 semesters of university classes (in the general areas) can be taken at a Jr college, but verify that before you take them.
You are better off looking at the University course and finding its match than taking courses and trying to get them to transfer.
Re:Wrong courses (Score:5, Informative)
I was able to get my AA in Computer Science, and transfer most of my credits to University to come in as a Junior in Computer Science. There were still lots of classes to take, but that's just because CS is a heavy unit major.
You need to see the counselors at both the university you intend to transfer to and the community college you are transferring from to make sure you are getting the classes you need and nothing more, and that you transfer at the right point.
-- John.
Re:Wrong courses (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wrong courses (Score:2)
Re:Wrong courses (Score:2, Informative)
Not computer science (Score:5, Informative)
The things they want (data structures etc) are. A more abstract layer that can be practically applied in any programming language.
Computer science is, funnily enough, more about the science.
You seem surprised that computer science is theory based...I'm afraid (at least from my own degree and others in surrounding universities) it largely is. The programming parts are merely to allow a practical presentation of the theory learned.
They generally expect you to pick up languages by yourself (you may get a quick introduction your first semester but you'll probably be handed a book and told to go read) and whilst you will probably be taught a smattering of unix, it won't be from a sysadmin point of view it will be from an IPC / pipes / OS theory / thread handling slant.
I'm not from the USA so I can't comment on community college courses but I would suggest you double check the Computer Science courses you're looking at to ensure it is actually what you want to do...better now than getting there and realising it's not what you thought.
Kev
Dijkstra (Score:5, Insightful)
--Edsger Dijkstra
Re:Dijkstra (Score:2)
Re:Not computer science (Score:2)
-- John.
Re:Not computer science (Score:2)
when I got my degree, we got taught the basics and intermediates of CS alongside learning C/C++. In the upper division classes we could generally program in whatever language we chose ,however.
Re:Not computer science (Score:2)
What junior and community colleges are for (Score:5, Informative)
For students planning to go to 4-year schools, junior and community colleges offer what California schools call "general education" requirements: English, calculus, etc. Offering the type of CS class that a 4-year school would offer would be too specialized for them.
If your plan is to get a job right away learning skills you can pick up quickly, then that's what the CC CS classes are for. If you are looking for credits that will apply toward a bachelor's degree, they are probably in more general things like English, math, and science. In a community college, it is usually cheaper, and you get those things out of the way so you can focus on your major-related classes once you transfer.
Good luck!
Re:What junior and community colleges are for (Score:3, Informative)
It can be done, but it depends a lot on the curriculum at the specif
MOD THIS POST UP! (Score:1)
Re:What junior and community colleges are for (Score:3, Insightful)
Baloney. I took some CS in high school. To say it's beyond the ability of community college students is condescending at best. Granted, it wasn't hard core 400-level coll
It also depends... (Score:3, Interesting)
I completed most of a University degree but got fed up with the fact that all I was learning was theory, I really had very little idea how computers worked and had next to no programming knowledge. I worked part time at a local computer store putting together and fixing PCs. I picked up a help desk contract and started doing a lot of learning on my own. I'm now in a fairly senior tehcnical position (actually, the next step up is management). The university classes didn't really help, except to network and learn from things other students did in their spare time. What helped me was experience and proof I did learning on my own.
Look for preexisting course mappings (Score:2)
The technical solution was to go through the standards for college and university courses, and match them at that level, so the university can now say "Joe Student has taken COL-231 and COL-233, which matches out UNI-206 course".
Net results? The Universities are now cooperating nicely with the Colleges. Notably Seneca (College), which opened their ne
Forget it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Forget it... (Score:3, Insightful)
bingo. That's what community colleges are for. You get two years on the cheap, then go to an expensive school for two years, and when you graduate with a BS, nobody is going to care about those first two years.
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
Any more detail on that? In my experience, a bachelors degree is almost mandatory for getting a job in the computer industry, but a masters degree in CS is basically pointless except as a step towards a PhD: it holds no real attraction for business, and anything less than a PhD is not sufficient to advance in academia. [This is obviously not true of all fields, e.g., a MBA seems to have some bizarro magic attract
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
People working on an MS at a major research university will most likely be involved in some sort of research and will be required to take some more advanced coursework. More than anything, I think the process solidifies the student's knowledge of the field and allows him or her to focus a bit on one or two specific areas of interest in order to gain some depth not usually possible in an undergraduate program. Additionally, students are expected to wor
Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci. (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, check out this CS program [stcc.edu] at Springfield Technical Community College in Massachusetts. It's designed specifically to transfer into a 4-year CS degree and includes such "hard and specialized" topics as Discrete Math, Linear Algebra, Digital Logic, and Data Structures.
Sorry to say, but your gut instinct is completely incorrect in this instance.
I know because I went through that program, transfered to a 4-year school (WPI), and stuck around to get my Masters. And I wasn't the only one; several of my classmates in CS and other disciplines stuck out the two year transfer program and ended up graduating and are working in industry right now.
It can be done, and in some cases is a great way to bypass two expensive years at a 4-year school.
Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci. (Score:1)
Sorry to say, but your gut instinct is completely incorrect in this instance.
One example does not a trend make, but good point, I suppose. But I rather suspect that is the exception, not the rule. If the community college the que
Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci. (Score:2)
I imagine, like much else, it varies widely by location. Perhaps I was hasty in my assumption as well. I'd like to think that everybody has access to this level of education if they're willing to do a little footwork and research, but that's probably my New England bias peeking through
Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci. (Score:1)
Its stunts like this that give community college CS departments a bad name.
I'm a big fan of Community Colleges (going for an A.S. in Engineering from one now) but if they claim
Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci. (Score:2)
The program added 2 years to its name to make it the BCIS. Unfortunately, they've decided to split into a seperate university and college components, which I think will cause severe damage to the CoSc dept because almost all of the courses are taken
Don't worry: The truth is always "-1 Flamebait". (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't imagine a community college computer science cirriculum of any kind. One of the first computer science courses you have to take is Discrete Math, covering basic boolean logic and set theory, and the university students I was with whined enough as it is; I suspect a community college would simply revolt.
I have Mod Points at the moment, but modding you up would be useless; you'd just get modded back down [as I expect I will be shortly], and, in the process, I'd have lost my chance to reply to you [
Re:Don't worry: The truth is always "-1 Flamebait" (Score:1)
Go For What Employers Want (Score:2, Insightful)
Go for the degree if you want the piece of paper (and a well-rounded education), but remember that it won't guarantee you a job.
Re:Go For What Employers Want (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Go For What Employers Want (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Go For What Employers Want (Score:1)
A degree is no substitute for intelligence and experience. Case in point, when I was in school I learned on a PDP writing FORTRAN-77. It was one step above punch cards. Very, very little of what I learned is helping me today. But, keeping fresh on new technologies by practicing, being active in the community, reading, and taking classes (c
Re:Go For What Employers Want (Score:2)
Re:Go For What Employers Want (Score:1)
Get your A.A... (Score:2)
Hog Wash. (Score:2)
Re:Hog Wash. (Score:1)
I know I'm going wih an Associate in Applied Science at Washtenaw Community College in Michigan, and then going to Eastern Michigan. They have programmes set up so I'll take 3 years of tech classes @ WCC, and 2-3 semesters at Eastern in Buisness and Management classes, getting a degreee in IT Management.
Works for me.
Depends on the courses, depends on the college. (Score:2)
Depends on the community college (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, other states do things differently: the cc system is specifically set up as a "feeder" to the larger public universities. In many cases, your 2 years at cc give you 2 years credit at the uni.
This may not help you, but to others, please check before hand about your local cc and transfer credits. We see lots of students who waste two years (of time and money) and get nothing at the next level.
Computer Information Systems (Score:1)
Firsthand Info (albeit dated) (Score:3, Interesting)
I was at Springfield Technical Community College [stcc.edu], and transfered the degree to WPI [wpi.edu], where I eventually ended up getting my MS in CS. I absolutely feel my 2 years at STCC were no handicap to me in my academic knowledge.
URLs:
List of transfer programs [stcc.edu]
CS Transfer Program [stcc.edu]
I actually feel I got an excellent grounding in CS from my introduction at the community college. I had, like you say, a Data Structures class. It was taught using C++, so I picked up some practical knowledge to go with the theory. Same with the introductory programming class, which used Pascal. Same with the machine language class, which had theory elements.
Basically I came out of the school with all the math I needed for a BS in CS (including linear algebra, DiffEQs, and discrete math), almost all of the science, and almost all of the humanities classes. I was a litle behind in CS theory classes, so when I got to WPI as a "Junior" I ended up enrolled in a couple "Sophomore" CS classes to catch up. It was really no big deal, and I had a little more practical knowledge than some of my classmates, too, because WPI at the time wasn't teaching C++ to its freshmen and sophomores.
Considering I saved, oh, maybe 15K+ each year by taking the first two years at a CC, I'm thrilled with how it worked out. Plus I could overload and take even more classes, at a cheaper cost per credit.
There's definitely a place for Community Colleges in science and engineering. You just need a program designed around it. Maybe your state has something similar....
Re:Firsthand Info (albeit dated) (Score:1)
Re:Firsthand Info (albeit dated) (Score:3, Informative)
Truly words of wisdom. I met some professors in the UC public school system that setup a program to do just this. The program was so successful that they presented its design at a conference I attended.
Here's some advice if you don't have such a program available.
Re:Firsthand Info (albeit dated) (Score:2)
What CCs Are Good For (Score:1)
My experience and advice (Score:1)
The A.S. usually has the transferrable credits. In my case, almost all of my courses transferred. LLCC (Lincoln Land Community College) is almost right next door to the University of Illinois at Springfield and they have a close working relationship. Most of the people that a
VA has both (Score:2)
TCC even offers an Associates in Computer Science, but again as others have said, this is a theroy based degree.
University vs. Community College (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:University vs. Community College (Score:1)
I've seen this sort of comment all over this page. It is true for the most part, and it should be, but it is not necessarily the complete truth. In fact, in the almost-two years of university at a well respected CS dep
Re:University vs. Community College (Score:2)
Oh, come on, maybe that's a reasonable way to describe the overall tenor of higher education, but it isn't really true for CS, unless you're only considering very low-level jobs.
A great deal of what they teach in a typical CS curriculum is directly applicable to a typical development job in the software industry (I expect the
Same here... (Score:5, Insightful)
I basically did it because I figured since I'm a computer geek, I may as well get a degree in it. However, I've found that the IT program at my school sucks. 40% of the students have left the IT program in the last year. Most of the credits will not transfer to another school, so if I go to a CS program I might have to start from scratch. And I do want to study CS more than IT.
In retrospect, I am thinking I should have used the comm. college to broaden my horizons a bit before concentrating on getting a BS in my chosen field.
I don't mean any disrespect to them, but I suspect that the other departments are not as inferior to their 4-year school counterparts as the IT/CS departments at a CC. Perhaps majoring in something like math at a CC will help you in your quest for a BS. It would be more likely to transfer credits, anyways.
Re:Same here... (Score:2)
If nothing else, if you get some kind of IT degree or certificate from your current school and then enroll in a CS program at a 4-year university sometime in the future, you'll have several advantages over your fresh-out-of-high-school classmates.
Community College Transfer Programs (Score:2)
most CS majors learn that IT stuff on their own (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:most CS majors learn that IT stuff on their own (Score:1)
They just don't count, sorry. (Score:2)
Check more carefully (Score:2, Interesting)
Theres more benefits than just transferring units (Score:1)
This is the preferred path, since classes in jr colleges are generally smaller than those in 4 yr colleges. It's been shown that students that s
get your AA degree first. (Score:3, Insightful)
Then I was laid off in 2001 ("sorry, we don't hire non-college graduates")
So now I'm going back to the local Community College and will transfer to complete a Computer Information Systems [csusb.edu] degree at Cal State San Bernardino. From all the advice that I'm getting, everyone is saying that you should get an AA degree before leaving community college. The requirements change at the universities all the time so once you complete your AA degree they can't take away any of those classes that you completed.
--Ajay
Technical schools vs. higher learning. (Score:2)
The stated goal of a University is to never teach anything practical. Read that twice if you don't get the joke
Re:Technical schools vs. higher learning. (Score:2)
It's really not an either-or proposition. Sure the CC also offers purely applied vocational stuff, but they are also a great springboard for getting into the state university system. Get your intro computer science, data structures, assembly language, math, science, english, etc. at community coll
Training. (Score:1)
Most students go to there for skills, not so much for degrees. If you want to use a CC as a cheap jumping-off point for a four-year institution, check with your counselors to see if they have a direct-transfer or three-and-one programs with the school you want to transfer to. That way, you
CS is a whole 'nother thing (Score:1)
However, most people who study CS and get degrees in the field are really not all that different from before they got the degree. C
what did you expect? (Score:2)
While I'm suprised that there's nothing you can take that will transfer over, you shouldn't be suprised that you're not getting much CS-specific stuf
Here's my take (A Meandering Journey) (Score:2)
Computer Science is a branch of Mathematics. This confuses a lot of people who have different ideas of what Math is, and it apparently confuses a lot of Slashdotters too. To Joe Public, Math={Algebra, Trig, maybe high-school Calculus}. It confuses my Mechanical Engineering friends, because to them Math={DiffEq, Numerical Analysis, etc.}. The confusion comes from the fact that Computer Science doesn't "look" like those othe
Community college uses (Score:1)
My experience... (Score:1)
Another nice thing they had set up is the ability to transfer to some universities and
Disagree....depends on the school (Score:2)
Education (Score:2)
Granted, many of the crappier universities out there have turned into trade schools, but a CS degree is not supposed to teach you how to code. Computer science is about the theory behind computing. It applies equally whether you are
2 + 2 (Score:2)
That may be regional. As a minimum, I know Monroe Community College has this arranement with U of R, R.I.T. and a number of others in the area.
Transferring as a CS major (Score:2, Interesting)
So, what's REALLY important... (Score:2)
Being able to stack up university credits...
or
Being able to do a job that (hopefully)
companies are willing to pay your heaps for doing
(or - in the absence of such companies, near you
- being able to start a business based on such
skills & knowledge in the industry... and -
if you do it well - make more money than in a job)?
You decide...
Hi Everybody !! (Score:2)
I can tell you that a degree at the Hollywood Upstairs Medical College is not as highly regarded as you might think.
Mod me redundant but.... (Score:2)
1. check with the University you want to transfer too, *before* taking classes somewhere else (including another University) regading transfer credit.
2. What transfers ultimately depends on the school accepting the would-be transfer credits, but some observations:
a. "general ed" courses from CC's usually transfer with no problem. That is, the courses that you would typically take in the first two years of a "liberal arts" degree. Stuf
Lane Community College, Eugene, Oregon (Score:2)
Most of the courses are fully transferable to Oregon universities, and they offer a transfer program [lanecc.edu] for Computer Science students which basically covers most of the lower-division requirements for most C
Take math and science (Score:2)
Sure, take a couple classes that include some programming to see if you like it, but don't expect that class to count towards your eventual BS degree.
CS vs CIS vs IT (Score:1)
Re:CS vs CIS vs IT (Score:1)