The Linux Modem Problem? 106
muonman asks: "There is a business in town which refurbishes old computers and distributes them to kids, roughly at cost. Part of this cost is a $5 license for Windows 98 (they do use OpenOffice, tho). I have outlined to them the benefits of migrating to Linux, but the showstopper is modems, which most of their customers require. They buy in bulk at $4 each, with unpredictable chipsets. I can find reliable(?) drivers for Smartlinks, but cant buy them for less than $6 each, and I hate to recommend the switch in suppliers without more info. I haven't had luck getting license info from linuxant for using Conexants. It seems there has been no activity on the linmodem front for some time. Any wisdom from the Slashdot crowd?"
One word... (Score:1)
gut-less modems (Score:2)
Thus, I was really, really happy doing this [angband.pl] (slow link).
Re:gut-less modems (Score:1)
There is one downside to this approach. The modem device is no longer a device node, but rather a pipe. Some apps don't like this, and say that there's no modems in
One Acronym (Score:2)
"It seems there has been no activity on the linmodem front for some time."
Not much help, but... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.leenooks.com/ [leenooks.com]
Re:Not much help, but... (Score:3, Informative)
http://start.at/modem [start.at]
Contact the modem manufactures for donations (Score:5, Insightful)
This is often possible for software when there's good public relations and/or a tax-writeoff.
relicensing Windows 98 (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:relicensing Windows 98 (Score:1)
Not much help but (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't a flaw in the open source development method - plenty of companies don't bother supporting old devices either (or old software for that matter).
5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can't get it for that price even at ebay. Something is not quite right about this one...
Re:5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:2)
Re:5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:2)
Send me $5 and I'll happily give you my copy. Heck, I'll pay YOU $5 to take it. Hurry up!!
Re:5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:2)
Win 98 + 5 dollars. Do you also offer free ship? Or do I need to send a SASE?
Grump.
Re:5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:5$ for windows -- since when? (Score:2)
And there is also programs like Microsoft Academic Alliance where non-profits and academia can get brand new copies of MS software for $10-15.
I picked up a copy of WinXP Pro for $10, and Visual Studio for $11. So I'm sure there's programs out there for refurbishurs to buy cheap licenses.
ermm. (Score:2)
Pay the extra $2 and sleep easier?
For $2, it really isn't worth screwing around, IMHO. If your supplier can't supply hardware that works, tough luck for them...
smash.
Re:ermm. (Score:1)
Re:ermm. (Score:1)
The bottom line is being able to be SURE that the modems you buy will actually work! Hence the query.
Where is the problem? (Score:4, Insightful)
+$2 modem
-$5 windows
-----------------
$3 profit
Why not just buy more expensive modems and save money at the same time.
Re:Where is the problem? (Score:1)
Re:Where is the problem? (Score:2)
Presumably the same people who care about paying $2 more for a different supplier of something they DO need?
Re:Where is the problem? (Score:1)
I didn't mention that the $5 license has very strict limitations, as well (k-12 only...), so we have a
need even if the modems cost more, but the difficulty is finding a reliable source of them whatever they are.
Test them. (Score:4, Insightful)
Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/MD56 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/M (Score:3, Informative)
My advice : try to find actual, hardware modems somewhere. A real 33600 is better than a 56K winmodem.
In the particular case of the CLMD5620DT, it used to work sometimes with 2.2 kernels (the version I released, with AT commands, is 0.3.0-gg), I made a quick port to 2.4 (you may find it as version 0.4.0) and I have no idea if it works wit
Re:Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/M (Score:2)
Re:Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/M (Score:2)
Re:Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/M (Score:1)
Re:Intel 536EP/537EP & Ambient MD3200/MD563X/M (Score:2)
It is worth asking.
The big problem is how to get hooked up to the Internet. A lot of the big ISPs seem to be going to strange custom dialers and such.
Uh... (Score:3, Interesting)
$5 OS + $4 modem = $9
$0 OS + $6 modem = $6
If they are concerned about unit prices - this is easy. IF they have other concerns about switching over the Linux due to support or application compatibility issues, then the cost of the modem is irrelevant anyways.
Re:Uh... (Score:2, Insightful)
He has to buy the modem either way so it's more like...
$0 OS + $4 modem + $6 driver (for $0 os) = $10
but seriously, if you're donating them to kids how many wanna really be stuck w/ linux? No snood, aim, kazaa and whatever else they want from download.com or where ever e-kids hang out these days. I know theirs free alternates but do they? Will these kids wanna spend 4 years learning how to use it all properly and not get r00ted in the mean time?
Re:Uh... (Score:3, Insightful)
but seriously, that's a joke, right? 4 years of learning for kids is no problem. Why give a kid a computer if not to help them better themselves? But most of all
Re:Uh... (Score:3, Funny)
Sure they're just kids. Set them loose on Windows 98, and it won't take 4 years to get r00ted. 4 minutes maybe.
Re:Uh... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Uh... (Score:2)
There's Gaim [sourceforge.net]. That will let them use AIM, but it will also mean that if their friends use MSN or ICQ instead, they can talk to all of them from within the same program.
>No Kazaa.
Heard of mldonkey [nongnu.org]? eDonkey, Kazaa, Gnutella, BitTorrent, Napster, and Direct Connect, all in the one app. Got more clients than you can shake a stick at, too.
Does it play for sure? (Score:1)
Heard of mldonkey? eDonkey, Kazaa, Gnutella, BitTorrent, Napster, and Direct Connect, all in the one app.
What does Napster have to do with P2P? It's a DRM music store. Does mplayer even support DRM'd Windows Media Audio files?
Re:Does it play for sure? (Score:2)
Snood on linux (Score:1)
No snood, aim, kazaa
They have Frozen Bubble (a clone of the same game that Snood copied), Gaim, and mldonkey. A lot of the other simple games will run fine on wine.
Will these kids wanna spend 4 years learning how to use it all properly and not get r00ted in the mean time?
If iptables is set to take no incoming connections except on those specific ports that the IM and P2P apps use, then how will they get r00ted?
Re:Uh... (Score:1, Troll)
$0 OS + $6 modem + 200 hours at $40/h trying to figure out why the fuck Linux won't recognise a totally 100% standard modem, or won't use a higher display resolution than 10x10, or whatever other stupid basic thing it won't recognise = $8006.
OK, I'm exaggerating. Let's take a concrete example. New PC (Dell Optiplex GX270). Works perfectly with Windows at full resolution (1280x1024 on a nice shiny LCD monitor). Install Linux (SuSE 9.0 so this isn't exactly ancient software) - only does
Re:Uh... (Score:2)
Re:Uh... (Score:2)
Look at what Knoppix does on practically all hardware compared to Windows. I hate getting graphics up to snuff on Windows, nvidia's website won't even work at the deafault resolution for a fresh install (have to tab to the "Go" button to download drivers).
Also an aside, I just installed SUSE 9.2 and get better refresh rates then Windows a
Re:Uh... (Score:1)
A proposal (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A proposal (Score:1)
Try Free Geek (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Try Free Geek (Score:3, Informative)
They don't get new modems. Actually, most machines they take in are recycled (aka destroyed) rather than refurbished. They just take the good modems they get. This is always an option, but then you have to be prepared to throw away some machines.
linmodems.org (Score:4, Informative)
The main site is full of information to help identify and get working "windows" modems under Linux. The list still seems to be active. Before ADSL arrived in my corner of the world I was dependant on them to get connected via inbuilt modems. I can't fault the helpfulness of the people on the list.
It doesn't matter if the modem cards you're getting are unpredictable provided that you know that it's one of a small subset and you know how to get each one (or most of them) to work. When I was last looking at this (over a year ago - but I guess that the kit you're seeing isn't new) the most manufacturer that modems identified themselves as was Agere/Lucent, for which there are various drivers around.
Some modems will probably just never get Linux drivers - the 3com 3c556 and relatives are examples of that. See:
http://zurich.ai.mit.edu/pipermail/omnibook/2002-
Re:linmodems.org (Score:2)
My Experience (Score:3, Informative)
Drivers are available at http://www.physcip.uni-stuttgart.de/heby/ltmodem/ [uni-stuttgart.de]
Maybe these are just older modems and you can't buy them anymore-- but if this type of modem is still available maybe you can get them for cheaper.
Where do you get Win98 for $5 in quantity? (Score:1)
I'm asking because I'm doing something similar.
If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
If the kid gets a computer with Linux, he'll prolly get someone to put Windows on it (which Daddy/Mommy knows how to use) or just buy another computer. It's much better for Free Software and for kids to put polished OSS on a Windows box (like Open Office, Firefox, and Gimp).
I really hope Linux will get there someday. It's just that today isn't that day, and by pushing a unready product to an audience, you give it a bad reputation.
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
Besides the guy they get to commit copyright violations with Windows probably won't be able to remove Linux.
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
Seriously though, I'll wade through that shit. You think an 8 year old would? Or even know where to look?
Computer's aren't monoliths; people want to install things and want them to work. They don't want something to not work after compiling from source (good luck on getting them to do that) and then doing research to disc
Compiling is different. (Score:1)
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
You were trying to solve the wrong problem. You need to upgrade to either a modern distribution or a good distribution. Then your solution becomes 'apt-get install whatevercrappyGTKapp-you-were-trying-to-run,' and the dependency stuff is figured out for you.
Seriously though, I'll wade through that shit. You think an 8 year o
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
The windows installers by far and large "just work". It's not to say that I haven't ever had any problems, it's merely that the problems never result in program A requiring library Z version 1.1 and program B requiring library Z versio
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
If you're using Debian, and you use packages from the Debian repository, you never have the problem you describe.
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
The guy's going to give the machines to the kids preconfigured. It doesn't matter how easy it is to install. What matters, is ease to maintain. I don't know what kind of 98 box you're using, but my old 98 boxes still work fine on the 'net and aren't owned.
Many people still pay professionals to install MS Office on their machines. I can't wait for someone to explain rpm -Uvh to them.
Re:If it's kids, stick with Windows (Score:2)
I don't use 98 boxes at all. But since Microsoft claims that it is impossible to make Widows 98 secure I really would love to know how you have your 98 boxes setup. Unless of course they are behind a NAT firewall which these kids computers probably will not be.
As far as ease of loading new software. Frankly some Linux systems are easier than Windows. I just upgraded my Ubuntu box to the new dist
Dial-up with Linux: Plug-n-Pray (Score:3, Insightful)
Even when using PCI hardware based internal modems (such as US Robotics/3-Com modems) it's a crapshoot. Just because a modem is listed as being Linux compatible is no guarantee. Getting online depends a lot on what distro you're using.
For example, on my Linux distro test box I have a 3CP5610 internal PCI modem. It works fine with Xandros, Lycoris, and Mandrake. Knoppix can detect the modem, and dials up to my ISP but cannot truly connect (although my KPPP settings are identical to the settings in Mandrake). Mepis cannot detect the modem, even though I tell it to use ttys4.
With the rise in broadband access, modem support is becoming less of an issue. But for those needing dial-up access, what distro you use can make or break your ability to get online.
Re:Microsoft Plug-n-Pray (Score:1)
Yeah, but that was a nightmare with Windows too. In fact, I had an easier time getting modems to work under Linux than Windows (once I got rid of the WinModem joke).
Just because a modem is listed as being Linux compatible is no guarantee. Getting online depends a lot on what distro you're using.
For example, on my Linux distro test box I have a 3CP5610 internal PCI modem. It works fine with Xandro
Re:Holy cow (Score:2)
And that version of Explorer isn't a wide-open expressway to install Trojans? That's the install vector for spamware these days, not network-based intrusions.
The grandparent poster is right - distributing Windows 98 is irresponsible today. Another poster wrote that 2000 is available under the same program for the same fee. If linux is unworkable, 2000 is far preferable as patches are still issued.
And they get Predictable results with Win98? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Do these bulk modems come with Windows drivers? For $4? Do they work? What about all the other components of these refurbished computers?
Why don't you have your configuration person do a bake-off. Try MEPIS or some other user-friendly distro and see how many of these refurbished machines work (including modem) immediately, and how many require screwing around and/or installation of
Re:And they get Predictable results with Win98? (Score:1)
seem to work.
I actually have experimented with several distros, including Mepis, but the problem is a little more general than that. Some distros may include proprietary drivers but that wont solve our problem.
Two options that worked for me (Score:2)
Or the surefire way is to get an external modem. Connecting to the serial port will surely work with anything - and without drivers of
This is a hot topic for me right now. (Score:1)
I tried:
1. VectorLinux - no joy connecting to the internet.
2. I upgraded the RAM, and tried Knoppix - still nothing.
3. I tried Windows 2000. No joy, but at least it reported the serial modem as being faulty.
4. I tried Knoppix, with the Linunxant drivers for the winmodem. STILL no joy.
5. I tried Windows XP. Everything work
Re:This is a hot topic for me right now. (Score:1)
Re:This is a hot topic for me right now. (Score:1)
Re:This is a hot topic for me right now. (Score:1)
Similarly, I was unable to get the Winmodem working with the Linuxant drivers.
I was able to get the Winmodem working with XP. I did not try the Serial modem on XP, as Win2K said it was faulty and the winmodem worked.
Bear in mind that the Smartlink driver... (Score:2)
The real solution is, of course, to use external RS232 modems.
Winmodems (Score:3, Insightful)
However, not all winmodems are created equal. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I believe it depends on whether or not the winmodem in question actually DOES have a controller chip and just needs proprietary drivers, as opposed to a true controllerless modem. From what I've read, the Lucent AMR modems are genuinely controllerless and thus not supported under Linux.
In a nutshell, because the term "winmodem" is a catchment word and actually describes quite a large number of different devices, you need to make sure you have reasonably intimate knowledge of which specific breed of winmodem you've got. Some will work, some won't...but again, in my experience anyway with my own chipset, both the 2.4 and 2.6 Lucent modules work well.
Of course, a standard hardware modem is always more desirable if you can get one...particularly seeing as the Lucent modules taint the kernel, which may be a problem for some people. (it doesn't particularly bother me) The advantages of winmodems however are price, greater level of availability these days from what I've seen, and marginally better throughput than their standard cousins in some instances. I'm hoping to eventually save up for a standard/external one of these days, and as I said they are more desirable if you can find/afford it...but I'm at least surviving on my Lucent right now.
Wine and Winmodems (Score:1)
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Its a circular problem.
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:4, Interesting)
Linux has the best hardware support for mass market machines of any non windows OS. And frankly, it has better out of the box support than windows.
The problem is not any more solvable than it already is, in other words, it isn't a technical problem. It's an economic one - MS can get away with developing almost no drivers because market pressure ensures that the drivers get written by hardware vendors.
Funny, how silent the Linux kiddies become when substantive discussion is afoot.
Silence is common amongst all fanboys when real problems are cited. But this is a troll. The problem is not substantially solvable.
The real question I have is, what are the advantages, in this case, of moving to Linux. Linux has become as strong as it has by being dedicated to practical solutions, not ideological ones. The best one I can see is that the licences for Windows are signifigantly higher than the $5 they are charging their customers. In that case a slight increase cost of hardware is acceptable.
Lucent modems are reasonably cheap, and the chipset has drivers (shipped with Linspire, back when it was Lindows). Also, Lucent is one of the better performing Winmodems (although my experience here is with the windows driver, so your milage may vary). If slight increases in hardware cost are acceptable, the Lucent driver is stable under Linux, and ships in serveral major distributions.
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:2)
http://www.heby.de/ltmodem
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:3, Funny)
When you get real apps and hardware, we'll accept you as a real person.
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:2)
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:2)
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically your strategy is to call names, and repeat an old Linux bash. Your statement has virtually nothing to do with the post.
Last I checked Linux is being adopted by the masses. Many many more people are converting to Linux than are converting from Linux. Entire countries are basing their IT infrastructure on Linux. So I will argue that Linux IS being adopted ona large scale. Of course it could be a larger scale, but Rom
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:2)
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:2)
Strange, indeed. Approximately a quarter of a million people think my opinions have merit. Perhaps they are ignorant, too.
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:1)
Re:Why Linux is a gimmick, not a solution (Score:1)
Also, I have gotten into livecd distro's lately, and have had to remaster to get WvDial in, so I could connect with some of my modems. I do use a cable modem also, but that takes all of the fun out of it. Nothing to configure.