Retail Theft Detectors and False Alarms? 230
NichardRixon asks: "All too often I set off the 'shoplifter alarm' when leaving a major department store in my area, after purchasing OTC medicine. Even though I make a point of watching the cashier 'clear' the boxes, it is evidently an imprecise process. As often as not the alarm goes off as I leave, and the security person wants to look through my bag and compare what's found with my reciept. People passing by give me the evil eye, evidently assuming that I've been caught stealing.
This has happened so so many times that my new policy is to refuse to stop for the search, telling the gaurd that they will have to tackle me, and of course they just let me go.
Shouldn't stores be required to use more reliable equipment?" What's worse is that there are many retailers that are just plain apathetic to the alarm. What's the point of having these detectors if all they are is continuing source of false alarms? What good will they be when they catch a real theft in progress and no one reacts properly because of their questionable history?
"It happened to my wife the other day, however, and she felt as though she had no choice but to wait several minutes, embarassingly on display to other shoppers, for the arrival of the manager.
I was wondering if other Slashdot readers have been having similar experiences and if so, how they deal with them."
What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
A deterrant. Retailers don't care if they alarms are reliable; they use them to deter many of the casual wannabe shoplifters out there. And apparently they work, because the big retailers with analysts out the wazoo use them.
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)
I was doing some research and carried my PowerMac bag with me for obvious reasons. When I was leaving the security system went off. The staff sort of freaked. I had to empty my bag and add one item at a time back into it to see if the alarm got set off by that item.
Turns out that a coiled up ethernet patch cable was the culprit. Can you say electromagn
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Funny)
I would be more worried about the looks you get when you bust out the 50 pound beast in the middle of the library.
Of course I know you meant powerbook, but I just had to be a smartass
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Interesting)
I was 20 minutes late to my next class as the librarian and I dug through the pack looking for what was setting off the alarm.
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)
(Note: Eel-skin wallets aren't made from the skin of eels, they're made from the skin of hagfish.)
What will set the system off are any of the following:
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Not a big deal (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not a big deal (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, it's that mentality that encourages people to buy car alarms that go off all hours of the night because a loud truck drives by, or a rainstorm sets it off. Better to inconvenience/alienate/embarrass customers, rather than pay for a decent system, right?
Media Play, one of my least favorite stores for regularly priced merchandise (great clearance prices), has one of those lousy theft alarm systems that go off all the time. The staff don't care, rarely bothering to look up when it goes off. I saw a young hoodlum obviously pocketing XBox games and mentioned it to one of the drones at the service desk. No interest. The kid didn't set off the alarm, he had a nice, lined pouch in his coat... quite popular among thieves at the mall. Maybe we should all have foil-lined bags to put our purchases (or thefts) in before we leave the store...
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)
That's called a booster bag. Having a booster bag is an offence in many jurisdictions. Of course, shoplifting is alread illegal
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2)
I wonder if the aluminized mylar antistatic bags, or potato chip bags, would work the same? When all you have is a poorly written law, everything looks like a hammer.
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2)
I go through line. Step through the detector and it goes off. The cashier asks "What'd you take?"
The manager comes over and I step through again - no alarm. Bag goes through again, no alarm. Both go through, no alarm.
I'm not sure why I didn't complain to the manager about her. I know I was irked by the situation.
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2)
Lost income from permanently losing 5 regular customers per day: $80,000.00
Catching a shoplifter: -$8.00
Spending $130,000 plus your reputation to save $8.00: stupid
Sorry, I just can't work a good punchline into that one.
Re:Not a big deal (Score:2)
The 5 regular customers have nowhere else to go. More importantly, it's more like 1 per day, or 1 per every 4 or 5 days.
Catching a shoplifter could be $20 per guard per day. An plainclothes guard catches the big thieves, and could catch several hundred to two thousand dollars per month. In California, if the thief was trying to take more than $400, they get charged with a felony.
You also have no idea how incompetant the cashiers can be. They let all kinds of stuff slip by,
Re:Check your wallet (Score:2)
Passive aggressiveness. (Score:5, Interesting)
I made the mistake of stopping once and had to sit there while they wasted my time rooting through all my bags. And yes, it's a waste of *my* time--It's not my duty to give them peace of mind. I guarantee they won't go out of their way to give *me* peace of mind.
This is the same way I handle the bozos at the end of the Fry's line that insist on checking eveyone's bag. I just scoot on past and ignore everything they say. The Fry's guys won't chase you though; The Home Depot people do.
-David
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
That's my approach at Best Buy, too, when the Receipt Nazis want to stop me. I figure if they really think I stole something, they can call the cops. If the cops show up before I drive off the lot,
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2, Interesting)
My mother, who explained this to me, worked in loss prevention at a Meijers. Now she avoids the eye contact, just to irritate the door gaurds.
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:3)
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
Usually I just turn around, glance blankly and innocently for a security guard with a look of "Okay, what now?"
I've never actually had my stuff gone through at Target. I've never been hassled. At Target I've been waved through
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
I just keep walking, especially with the department store as I trigger them going in and going out without ever coming near any of their wares.
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
Used to annoy the shit out of me, as I always had to deal with the flee (play dumnb and walk to my car) or fight (make a stink about the shitty system they had) instinct.
Finally, I comprimised. I began giving the checkout person a heads-up: "This may sound silly, but the steel-toed boots I wear always set off the detectors." More often than not, they'd chuck
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
Not the battery, mind you, but the flashlight body, which consisted of nothing but a switch, a bulb, and two metal straps that connected them to the battery. For whatever reason, that must've resonated on exactly the right frequency to set off the alarm. I starte
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
The clerks sometimes suck at deactivating the tags, though.
I was in a Border's book store a few years back doing holiday shopping (buying a CD, actually). The check-out line snaked through about half the store, probably about 60 people in front of me, and 5 registers. While waiting, the detector went off quite a few times, always with the response of "Sir (or Madam), you have to come back to deactive your tag...", presumably annoying the custo
Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:2)
The wiki definition of False Arrest [wikipedia.org], is interesting in its definition of the tort of
I'm in the same boat with you (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm in the same boat with you (Score:2)
False positives (Score:2)
I would stop an complain to the manager plus when you get home call the head office. Throw a fit and to end it don't shop there anymore if they can't come to a solution.
Running off isn't going to help you'll find a cop on your doorstep waiting for you to get home. They do after all have cameras in the parking lot...
Re:False positives (Score:5, Informative)
Re:False positives (Score:2)
I *highly* doubt that. The clerk won't be able to describe *at all* what was stolen (since nothing was) there won't be a surveillance tape showing a shoplifting (since none occurred). I'm no expert, but I have to imagine it'll be extremely tough to get a search warrant under those circumstances. And without that warrant, what would be the point?
Re:False positives (Score:2)
The only way to truly make a business pay attention to anything is to stop shopping there and to do everything in your power to get other people to stop shopping there, too. When their bottom line finally starts suffering, then they'll finally pay attention.
Even filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau does little good these days, as most businesses know
Check your rights (Score:3, Informative)
Also, from what I've been told, it's best to act as if nothing happened. Shoplifters get away with their crime more often than not because they just keep walking and they can be in their car by the time the guard get to them.
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
You are granting powers to people that don't have them. "Stores" and "civillians" are not capable of "charging" or "pressing charges." One of the funniest lines used in movies is, "no officer, I don't want to press charges." That isn't your option. If a police officer (not a store) arrests you, it is up to the district attorney to press charges or not to press charges. The person who origina
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
That is where the misunderstanding comes from. You are not pressing charges. You are filing the complaint. Your actions are "pressing" the charges. The actual charges are filed by the DA.
I would be the one to face the false arrest liability, not the officer.
Exactly. You are still not pressing offical charges and neither is the police officer. What he is warning you is that if the DA determines the person sho
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
If their lead "witness" refuses to testify against the accused, the state has no case. Zippo, zilch, nada.. If there was a camera watching, the state may ignore you, but then dealing with a "didnt know I was on camera" gig would probably get the evidence thrown out.
Re:Check your rights (Score:2)
Anyway, I remembered the the rule was if
Just keep walking... (Score:2)
The funny thing was, I was getting a lot of false positives for a while. I couldn't figure it out. I finally realized that the wallet I had bought a few weeks earlier had an activ
Car Key FOB (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Car Key FOB (Score:2)
It may very well have to do with the "cheapness" of the FOB, because my Audi key doesn't set it off, and I suspect that retail store workers aren't driving expensive cars.
Insurance or something? (Score:4, Insightful)
There was a time awhile back when I used to set these things off almost everywhere I went. Eventually I started to remove one item each time I went to the store. First it was my keys, then my cell phone. The alarm would still go off. Then I tried leaving my wallet in the car and just carry in the cash I needed. Lo and behold, the alarm didn't go off! So after some careful investigation I found that my wallet still had the anti-theft sticker tucked inside an unused pocket. What was strange about this is that the alarm problem had only started recently even though the wallet had been with me for years.
After thinking about it a bit, I determined that the problem had to be caused by either one of two likely possibilities (or a combination of them). The most likely explanation is that the old security key card I had had was blocking the anti-theft device. I didn't connect to the two immediately, but the problem of the alarms going off began to occur about the time I turned that badge in. The other possible explanation is that somehow the anti-theft device was re-activated. I'm not even sure if that's possible or not, but I had the wallet before I got the job that required the security key card and never had any problem going through those detectors.
In any case, after removing the old anti-theft sticker, I've not had any problems with those devices. So if you're one of those who keeps setting them off, you might have a look for something like this.
Re:Insurance or something? (Score:2)
Re:Insurance or something? (Score:2)
Re:Insurance or something? (Score:3, Funny)
I recently reported this (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought you would like to know that after I bought $350 worth of merchandise, rung up by the store general manager, no less, that the anti-theft system at the front door started going off as I departed.
I stopped, turned around, and went in hoping that someone from the store would help, as indicated by the automatic alarm warning message. I'm telling you, even though there were a gaggle of sales people standing around, no one FLINCHED.
I finally started to approach one of the cashiers. From 20 feet away he called out (over the din of the alarm) "Did you pay for that?" I called
back "Yes"
He said "Why did you stop? Just keep going!"
I turned and walked out. Presumably the shoplifters would have done the same except they would not have paused at the door.
How much money does Staples have invested in this system that is completely ignored? If it's all the same to you, would you please stop
installing these systems and lower your prices? I'd rather not pay more than I have to.
Thought you'd like to know.
If it bothers you (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:If it bothers you (Score:2)
My life's goal... (Score:2)
When I left the store, though, I set off the alarm again, and this time someone came to me. I just told her that I had set off the alarm when I came
Re:My life's goal... (Score:2)
Back to the main point, I've set off alarms before and every time they've just re-swiped it or let me go; never had to be searched.
Wave the bag through first (Score:2)
In all cases where I've set an alarm off like this, they've been satisfied with just going through the shopping bag. No insistence of searching my whole person.
Oh, it's simple. (Score:2, Interesting)
2 - alarm rings
3 - store bitches
4 - tell them to call the cops, because only the cops have the right to search you **AFTER** they put you under arrest; warn them that you will sue them for false arrest.
5 - they let you off, go home. That's it.
OR 5 - they don't let you off.
6 - they call the cops. Cops don't find anything.
7 - sue them for false arrest and defamation of character.
8 - profit!!!
Very often, upon finding your innocence, they will offer to settle. Some 40 years ago,
bit of a story... (Score:2, Funny)
Perception (Score:2)
With my mind free scanning endless blue boxes I came up with about 9-10 security problems and solutions that were totally transparent to the customer and staff. They were totally ignored.
Why? Because I also came up with some inherent flaws that could not be corrected, therefore closing security holes would lead theives to the perfect crime scenarios, the illusion of security bolstered by watch
Like many of you... (Score:3, Interesting)
interesting (Score:4, Informative)
1) Go to Wal-Mart
2) Walk up to the electronics check out desk or automotive counter desk and pull a plastic bag off of the rack.
3) Walk into the games section and pull out one (1) copy of Trivial Persuit
4) Place Trivial Persuit in bag.
5) Walk out of store.
5b) If woman is checking receipts, walk out with larger crowd of people and let them get snagged as you walk by. Ignore anyone saying "Sir.. sir.."
6) Get struck by lightning. Wal-Mart is on God's side, so you must assume that the converse it true.
Re:interesting (Score:2)
1) They'll follow you with rotating cameras outfitted with 1200mm zoom lenses.
2) He or she will radio the plainclothes guard of your location and description.
3) You'll be stealthily followed as you put the game in the bag
4) A uniformed guard at the entrance/exit will step just outside the doors out of sight while waiting for a "go" signal over his radio.
5) As you're leaving, the guard steps out and blocks you
Re:interesting (Score:2)
I'm sure every Wal-Mart in the country is now looking into where a copy of Trivial Persuit was stolen in the last couple decades. Not.
Plus there's the whole thing where they prove I took it since it's still at the place I left it that day so long ago.
I wasn't "sticking it to the man." No one's wringing their hands over it. St. Arbirix's name is relatively unsullied by the mistake.
Anyone who followed the link to my Clemson site should know, I've said dumber things in the public forum.
self checkout lanes (Score:2, Interesting)
You're missing the point of the detectors.. (Score:2, Interesting)
But aside from that, I think previous posters hav
Just keep going or (Score:2)
Make it as big of a pain for them as you.
I have to wonder what right a rent a cop has to detain you? Those sensors are so unreliable they are without a doubt not probable cause. I mean what right does a none police officer have to detain you or to demand a search of your bags.
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
If the sec guard really really thinks you shoplifted, he can detain you while the police are summoned. If, when the cops get there, it turns out that you're innocent, the sec guard is hosed.
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
Re:Just keep going or (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
...and in every state, if it turns out I'm not actual shoplifter, I get to claim false imprisonment and (probably) assault.
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
Re:Just keep going or (Score:3, Informative)
Everything I've ever read, typified by this [crimedoctor.com] and this [crimedoctor.com], state that, yes, the store can detain you if you've been in their store, but if they turn out to be wrong, they're utterly hosed.
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
A citizen's arrest is really only justified when a person has observed another committing a crime(talking about misdemea
Re:Just keep going or (Score:2)
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I agree that an alarm going off isn't an indicator of anything other than an alarm going off.
My point is that store security *can* legally detain you for the cops, but if they turn out to be wrong, or they go about it the wrong way, they open themselves up to an incredibly big liability.
Too Much Free Time.... (Score:2)
Nipok Nek
Home Depot Alarm Redux (Score:3, Funny)
I'm just standing in line for the self-checkout when I'm watching the doorway alarm goes off at a crazy clip...
(Bzzzzzzz)
Sheesh... They never let up... Half of the kin-folks are automatic criminal suspect (Bzzzzz)...
Now, its time to pray, when my turn is up. That my time and date are decided by a crazed-fate.
(Bzzzzz)...
Drat... It got me for no good reason.... Evil eyes lurks on me from all the overflowing lines.
(Bzzzzz) Oh? It got you too? He he he...Join the crowd, buddy.
My Palm often sets the things off... (Score:2)
Honor system (Score:2)
Physical contact == beatdown (Score:3, Interesting)
After finally making my way through the checkout and purchasing my items, I made a beeline for the door, bypassing the twenty or thirty people standing around waiting to have their bags inspected. There was no way I was going to stand around for another twenty minutes after having stood in line for an hour already. As I approached the exit, a Fry's employee stepped in front of me and said, "I need to check your receipt, sir."
I ignored him, sidestepped, and kept walking. The moron actually grabbed my left shoulder from behind -- not forcefully, but even so it startled the crap out of me because I wasn't expecting to be grabbed. Completely by reflex, I yanked my shoulder away and punched the poor guy in the throat with my right fist (my bag was in my left hand).
It surprised me as much as it did him, and I felt kinda bad about it for a moment, but I hadn't hit him hard enough to do any real damage. He gave me a very unhappy look and made some strained coughing noises, and I walked away. In hindsight, I don't really feel bad about it at all. I had nothing personal against the guy until he touched me, but as soon as his hand landed on my shoulder, he overstepped his authority. If I'd seriously injured him, I would have felt terrible, but as it is, I think he got a good lesson in how to respect a customer's personal space.
Re:Physical contact == beatdown (Score:3, Insightful)
I work in retail.... (Score:2)
Go Ahead! (Score:2, Interesting)
Do you feel lucky, punk? (Score:2)
The store personel rely upon the fact that most people don't want control over their lives. The electronic alarm says "STOP", they stop and succumb to the will of the security guard, manager or just about any Joe with an apron or name tag. Nobody is stretching their rights, it's just a customer (or browser) who stops of his/her own volition and offers up his/her person for inspection.
If they want to accuse me of theft, I encourage them to make sure they have the full blessing of LP and management, and on
Righteous Indignation (Score:2)
I can't remember the last time I was actually asked to submit to a search. It's been long enough that I can't remember how well I
Conspiracy Theory (Score:2)
Fun with electronic tags (Score:2)
What I do (Score:2)
On the rare occasion that I trip the alarm, I turn it into a customer relations problem.
I immediately turn around and go back into the store (ignore the guard, or tell him to walk with you if he wants to talk to you) and march either back to the cashier who checked you out, or to the customer service desk (use judgement). Ignore any line. Slam packages on counter and yell, "Fix it, NOW!"
This has the following, positive effects:
Re:my work badge sets off a number of store alarms (Score:2)
Re:Big Brother is watching you... (Score:2)
Re:Big Brother is watching you... (Score:2)
Re:Big Brother is watching you... (Score:2)
If it comes down to your word against theirs, whose word do you think the judge is going to believe? Look what happened to the guy who tried to pay with $2 bills -- who did the cops believe then? Even if they let you go with a "sorry" it's not good enough -- the damage is done, as the original story says. I'm jus
Re:Big Brother is watching you.....buy OTC medicin (Score:2)
It was from the inside of a music cd cover.
One of your friends was fucking with you.
Don't ask how I know this.
Re:CompUSA, SF (Score:5, Insightful)
See, that's the difference between Red and Blue states.
Blue state resident: "Good sir, under what authority would you be apprehending me?"
Red state resident: "Son, did you know this is a right-to-carry state?"
Re:CompUSA, SF (Score:4, Funny)
I always wondered what would happen if they asked me if I was hiding and I lifted my shirt to reveal my
Legally my weapon must stay concealed, but if they really want to know...
Re:CompUSA, SF (Score:3, Interesting)
"If I show you what is under my shirt, some authorities might consider it brandishing a weapon."
They let him go.
Re:CompUSA, SF (Score:3)
Would have loved to seen the faces of the Best Buy employees.
Re:Why do you go back? (Score:2)
Re:A Book Of Stamps (Score:2)
Re:Defamation of character (Score:2)
Re:DON'T just walk out (Score:2)
Re:DON'T just walk out (Score:3, Informative)
1. If you weren't booked, you probably don't have an arrest record for the incident.
2. In any case, in order for it to be a "felony arrest" you would have to have been arrested and charged with Theft in the First Degree [oregonlawyer.com] or some other felony, which you weren't. (I cited an Oregon statute because in a later post you mentioned that it was a Fred Meyer's in one of Oregon's larger towns - I'd be wi