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Networking Education

Education Qualifications for a Network Admin? 103

Posted by Cliff from the necessary-learnin' dept.
Volkov137 asks: "As I ponder where to go after high school for a future job in Network Administration, I have a couple of choices. Either go to a University and get a 4-year bachelors degree in Computer Networking and Administration, or go to a 2-year trade school that will be much more focused on what I need to know. Is the University really worth paying for, and will it mean anything more in today's IT world? Also, how important are certifications (Network+, Cisco, Linux+, etc) when entering this job market?"
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Education Qualifications for a Network Admin? More

Education Qualifications for a Network Admin?

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  • Goto a University (Score:3, Informative)

    by middlemen ( 765373 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:19PM (#12393292)
    I understand that Univ education is expensive but it is worth it. Studying in a univ broadens your outlook in a big way. You can handle competition better because you are amongst intelligent people and you do a lot of networking not to forget the hot chics!! :) A univ is a better developing ground for your overall personality.

    • Re:Goto a University (Score:2, Informative)

      by Seumas ( 6865 )
      The real world is a great plave for developing your personality, too. And there is great copmetition in the real world. Nothing you've offered here from a university is not available in the real world. You're only prolonging it under the guise of some great education.

      If you're looking to be a lead product developer on major software products or something, that's great. Go get your education. If you're just looking to do IT work, you can learn all you need to know about the major languages, hardware and sys

      • Re:Goto a University (Score:4, Insightful)

        by porcupine8 ( 816071 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @04:56PM (#12393796) Journal
        well, except the people that spent the four years you were getting an IT education getting four years of their own real world experience.

        It always annoys me when people present college and "real-world experience" as they they were a mutually exclusive dichotomy.

        How do you think many people pay for college? You don't have to get a crappy job in the school cafeteria. Plenty of people find "real-world" jobs that they can work at part-time while getting their four-year degree. Yes, in total you'll have a bit less experience than the people from two-year schools, but you won't be completely bereft of it.

        Disclaimer: I know nothing about computer network, I just know plenty of people who held real jobs that they could actually put on their resume during college, including myself.

        • Right on. I'm one of those people who held real jobs during college... and I'm now working with that same company (making a LOT more than those 2-year degree experience fanboys. They see a degree, AND they see experience, you'll get a great job on the other end of school. Do an internship somewhere... you might be able to earn credit for some of the low-level classes while you're at work. (I did and the company ALSO paid me!) Play your cards right and you'll get it all on a silver platter.

      • Re:Goto a University (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Passion and charisma are all well and good--and they're code words for "youth." And when those folks who follow the advice of going for the bucks and the experience now get older, and need to change jobs because some multinational conglomerate made their shop redundant, they might find their "passion and charisma" less appreicated in their 40s than in their 20s.
      • And then when you have that degree or certificate, you can brag about how knowledgable you are compared to everyone else... well, except the people that spent the four years you were getting an IT education getting four years of their own real world experience.

        Not everyone wastes the time inbetween classes by drinking, partying, or otherwise screwing around, you know.

        By the time I finished my 4-year degree, I also had 2 1/2 years of real-world experience from co-op jobs and other work. In fact, the degre
    • ;) I wouldnt count on that totaly , The trade schools can be very good and give you a more solid view of the way the industry really does work .
      Universitys are wonderfull things for broadening your horizons to many things and giving you a good expanse of knowlidge on a plethora of topics.
      However if you really want to get down to working , you will be far better with Work training.
      That said ;) doing both may be an idea.
    • I'd say go to a university, and take a few business courses along with your network administration courses. If you can make sound business cases for why you need equipment or personnel, your professional life will be so much easier. Also, should you ever decide to do a start-up, the business knowledge may very well prove invaluable. And as the parent said, it broadens your thinking and helps you grow as a person. Take some art or philosphy courses too, mabye. You'll discover things that you never knew
    • and you do a lot of networking not to forget the hot chics!!

      If it's chicks you want, forget IT and go for one of the biological sciences. ;-)

    • I agree. And although a trade school may be more focused on what you are looking to do now, chances are you will probably change your mind at least some time in your career. I think trade school is a really good way to get "stuck" in your career and life. You may be taking too much of a short term perspective to your career. I think the Univ education and experience will help that out because you will probably have to (and should) take classes in other subjects. Although one of my problems with univers

  • Better idea. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:20PM (#12393300)
    I have a better idea.

    Jump right in somewhere that is willing to hire you. Work hard, establish a good chunk of resume material from that company and then move onward if necessary after a couple years. Nothing beats real world experience and I've found that people who learned what they know through their own passion and desire (and real world implementation) tend to be far more enthusiastic and adaptable and quick to learn new concepts and skills and frameworks than people who just sat in a chair at a university or trade school for a handful of years, learning soon to be outdated material from professors or instructors who rarely implement their own knowledge in a real environment.

    Not to mention, things in the real work environment are rarely anything like what you've learned in school and you'll have to be broken of your old habits.
    • I agree total , I am not a system admin because i thought it was a nice path to the top or a good course to bolster my prospects.
      I decided to be a systems admin because i love tinkering with systems. Always have , Probably always will.

      I learnt mostly from my own experiance( playing around with systems since i was tiny) , partly from work experiance(the way it works outside the sandbox) and partly from Training(the theory behind the reality and a quick start to a new system).

      On the job training is the best

      • Re:Better idea. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Seumas ( 6865 )
        Well, anecdotal as this is, I'll simply offer this:

        I dropped out of the 9th grade and have been pulling down close to six figures since I came of drinking age. That was some time ago. I have a respectable resume and accomplished what I have through nothing more than working hard, being reliable, being productive, learning new concepts and constantly proving myself to people.

        The most important skill you can ever have is comprehension. More important than "do you know xyz" is "can you learn xyz". If you can
        • Totaly true , The speed the industry moves at , you need to be able to adapt or your just going to get left behind(though there is always some call for legacy ).
          This is why more than nearly anything , the IT industry is an industry for those who live the lifestyle .
          Hell , I admin for a job and what am i doing in my free time(besides having a glass of martini) well im currently setting up a server just to play around with it and learning a few new services while im at it.
          Youve really got to have the passion

        • Re:Better idea. (Score:3, Insightful)

          by pyite ( 140350 )
          Please understand that you are the exception to the rule. You are the tail end of the Gaussian distribution. Most people who are dropouts don't ever make six figures. I agree with some of your points... such as the ability to learn being more important than what you actually know. However, I can't help but think that someone reading your anecdote might take it as advice. It's more of a gamble than anything. While many people know they can carve their own path no matter what, too many people think they can b
          • It matters how you play your cards and network any contacts you have...

            I dropped out in 10th grade due to the unchallenging environment and instantly started at 30k just for my computer knowledge in '98. I was later down sized after being forced to train my Indian replacement and now I'm in Germany looking for a GS position with the government. If I went to Iraq as a contractor I would easily pull in 100k+... My wife wants me to stay here as a spouse, so here I sit.

            Now, Ive also "discovered" that I really
        • Well, anecdotal as this is, I'll simply offer this: I dropped out of the 9th grade and have been pulling down close to six figures since I came of drinking age.

          OK, but although also anecdotally, I suspect this is far more typical: I graduated from an excellent high school with fine grades, but not knowing a damn thing about how to do the kinds of things a network admin needs to know how to do. I'm not talking about knowing how to use the tools of the trade, but knowing what do do with them. Anyone who m

    • Re:Better idea. (Score:2, Informative)

      by c0bw3b ( 530842 )
      eh, maybe maybe not. I have tons of work experience, but recently went up for a job which I didn't get. As it turns out a guy I know did get the job, he had almost no job experience but had a nice fresh 4 year degree, and possibly more importantly, was willing to take less money.

      So that was the last straw for me, I'm going back to school this fall to finish off my BA.
      • Never hurts to finish off a degree .. Must say though , PHBs are a total bunch of explitives hee.
        You know someplaces they do keep a count of certificats for choosing interview candidates, i found this out purely by acident once when my Chainsaw certificate came up in a IT job interview(I used to work as a forest ranger/arboriculturist) as relevant experiance.
        It turned out the company just took a literal list of the certs/ degrees from the application form and choose canditates due to it ...

        Sometimes i fe
    • You forgot to mention that, after 2 promotions or so, you're stuck in the same job forever. You learn how to learn in school; the subject matter isn't why you go. Don't forget about the huge amount of social learning and experience you gain in college. People who downplay school are the ones who didn't go, so they don't know what they missed out on.

    • Re:Better idea. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bergeron76 ( 176351 ) *
      Wrong.

      Go to the University. You'll get to work with some very cool hardware that you'll never get to go near once you're out in the real world.

      For the real-world experience, pick up some consulting gigs (always found on bulletin board postings/flyers around the school campus). While I was in college, I did $3,000 in consulting work in a single semester and I basically paid for that semester and then some.

      Also, try to work for the University's Campus Network (ours was called ACNS @ FSU). If you're just
    • I don't know where you are from but where I live the only IT jobs somebody can get right out of high school is isp tech support. To transition from that to any real IT job is almost impossible because either people with expierence or degrees(or worse both) will always beat you out for the jobs. Your idea is the worst I can't believe you have been modded insightful. Anyplace that would higher a kid out of highschool to be a network admin doesn't know what it is doing. In the increasing competitive world
      • Wrong. I did this too. Your last point is BS. Learning sysadmin stuff if like driving, you may not be as good as the other drivers on the road at first, but once you get the hand of it there's nothing to stop you.
    • Yes, real work experience (and good references, and good social networking) are what finally land you the job that you want.

      Unfortunately, lack of a degree is what gets your resume pitched without having been looked at. (and I say that from experience, in having to sort through stacks of resumes).

      Resumes are more than just a piece of paper to say that you know something (which you probably don't, give today's educational systems) -- it's a piece of paper that says that you stuck with something for 4 year

  • Univ gives options (Score:5, Informative)

    by mlmitton ( 610008 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:21PM (#12393302)
    If you think there's a chance that at some point in the future, you might want to do something other than IT, then you're way better off with a 4-year degree. A lot of jobs out there may not be that concerned what your university degree was in, but you have to have one. And with a 4 year degree, if you need to retrain yourself in something else, you can go in to a Master's program--a far better prospect for changing careers.

    Also, don't forget that the older you get, the harder it is to go to school.

    • Re:Univ gives options (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Seumas ( 6865 )
      Also, don't forget that the older you get, the harder it is to go to school.

      How so? The older you get, the more advanced you probably are in your career and the more money you probably have saved up. Rather than starving and living on top ramen for four years, you could probably take significant time off work (having a better relationship with your employer due to seniority by this time, perhaps) and afford all of your tuition and text books. Much easier than scrounging around living in a cramped little

      • Re:Univ gives options (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Ankh ( 19084 ) *
        My husband (yes, we're a same-sex couple) went back to university to study art in his 40s.

        University courses are geared to high-energy teens and twenties people. The workload might not seem all that high at the time, but when you're older it can also be harder to learn new things, at least partly becuase you have to unlearn a lot of assumptions.

        A common reason to go back to school is a career change and all that knowledge you picked up doesn't help you as much as you might think.

        But if you're going back
    • However University will not give you the skills to be a good network admin. You will still want the two year program.

      I would still go to University. It provides a lot of flexibilty, especially if you are smart and take a broad range of courses.

    • Re:Univ gives options (Score:4, Insightful)

      by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @04:17PM (#12393610)
      I love computers and love coding. I try to do what open source coding I can. I got a 1st in computer science and then.... I decided to do a PhD in engineering.

      I'm now researching making holograms while studying physics in my own time. I rarely use a computer except to read slashdot and hobbiest coding (which is the best sort of coding).

      Funny how life changes. A degree can open up your options.

    • Given the poster's apparent total lack of interest in getting a broader college education, it might not be a great idea for him to go to a four-year school. With that kind of poor motivation, he'd probably drop out. He might be better off going to a community college, if they exist in the state he lives in. I teach at a community college in California, and I teach an academic subject (physics), but our vocational programs are actually bigger than our transfer-level programs in terms of enrollment. At a CC,

  • I really think a university degree is useful (Score:4, Interesting)

    by neomage86 ( 690331 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:21PM (#12393307)
    I'm currently in a 4-year program at UIUC. For 95% of the things a network admin needs to do, a two year trade school is sufficient. But you learn a lot of useful skills, and learn how things work on a lower level, in a university. For example, in the networking lab class we write our own TCP/IP stack from scratch, so we really understand how things work better. Or in our OS design class we write a software RAID 0+1 driver module for linux. A university degree also makes it a lot easier to get your first job in today's competitive job market.
    • Except, really, how many network admins really need to know the TCP/IP stack to the point of writing their own? It's nice to know and it's a thing you can educate yourself on in your own time. You don't need to smelt copper and form your own wires, insulation and covering and mold your own RJ45 jacks to understand and string CAT5.

      I'm not saying that a lot of the information isn't interesting or doesn't make one knowledgable, but there is a great disconnect between "educators" and employers as to exactly wh
      • You don't need to smelt copper and form your own wires, insulation and covering and mold your own RJ45 jacks to understand and string CAT5.

        Funny that you say that, because I know an ECE major at my school that used the materials labs to do just that.

        Incidentally, that is why you should pick a university that has something to do with the "real world". I recommend Rensselaer PolyTech (www.rpi.edu) or Kettering U (www.kettering.edu).

        If you can write a software RAID driver and can't understand implementatio

  • Tools of the Trade (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (orstacledif)> on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:22PM (#12393311) Journal
    It depends what you want to do .
    If your more intrested in the Theory and constructing networks, then the university would be more you thing .
    However if your more intrested in running systems and their upkeep and maintenance ,then the trade school may be far more benifical.

    As for Certs , unfortunatly they have become a nesecity in our day and age .
    A little bit of paper saying your qualified to do A:B:C:D etc are what many employers look at when selecting candidates to interview , but choose carefully. Some really are total fluff whilst others will give you a really solid grounding in a system.
    • I have my comptia A+ and Net+. I assume the A+ is a necessary yet "fluffy" certification, is the Net+ I got worth anything?
      • No extra cert is ever worth nothing . It always looks good to the PHBs.
        However if you want a good way of telling if a cert is usefull to You , then try and think of real world examples of how you could use it ,simple as that .
        They are all only as usefull as what they teach you.
        • No extra cert is ever worth nothing . It always looks good to the PHBs.

          Which is what I consider "worth nothing".

          Sure, having some certs on your resume can help you get it past the resume-shredder in the HR dept at some places. But frankly, I wouldn't want to work for a PHB who insisted that I have a cert of some kind, when it's obvious from the rest of my resume and a reference check or two that I'm qualified. That kind of rigid bureaucracy or myopia is a warning sign that I'd be miserable there.

          I

          • "I've gotten by in this industry for over 20 years without any"

            Thats just it , back then they wern't needed, and you had the time to pick up a bucket load of experiance which should send you skyrocketing in the eyes of any half way qualified PHB.

            If your new , and can't get work then it may be the only way you have to shine above the other applicants.

            Dont get me wrong , I really do hate the fact that these stupid bits of paper have replaced the need for competent Human resources departments. Though it ape
    • I currently have my A+ cert, and I am on my 2nd semester (of 4) for my Cisco cert. I read in another post that Cisco is a highly praised cert. Are there any others that I should concentrate on?
      • Some form of Generic Administration Qualification (proclamation nation station.. cant resist)..
        Not Generic in the sense of "Average and undistinguishable course" but generic in the sence of "Teaches you to handle Administration not a specific system" , they are not cheap , well the good ones , But they do help alot .I am over the other side of the pond possibly from you (Unless your nick if volkov as in folkof ;))
        So couldn't recomend any over there , but Im sure plenty of folks would be able to point you in

  • Is it really necessary? (Score:4, Informative)

    by MarkRose ( 820682 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:26PM (#12393334) Homepage
    Unless you plan on administering really large networks, you really don't need school to wire an RJ-45 jack or configure a router. These are things, if you have a technical mind, that you can learn fairly easily from a book.

    On the other hand, large networks are where the real fun is. I'd say which schooling to get depends on your long-term goals. There is a lot of theory involved in network design (including a lot of math). A technical program will skip over most of this, which you will regret if you want to do the really important stuff. If you're just looking for a 9-5 and actual implementation, or just smaller networks, you'll probably find the technical program more to your liking.
    • Actualy come to think of some of the Trainees ive bumped into , i think they probably would need a 4 year course just to be able to tell the difrence between patch and cross-over , nevermind the mathmatics behind the distribution of TCP-IP packets.
    • These are things, if you have a technical mind, that you can learn fairly easily from a book.

      Reading a book can't go on a resume. A summer internship is the best place to learn the basics, beefs up the resume, and can provide valuable references (or even a job) for the future.
      • "Familiar with ABC and XYZ" could be put on a resume, and might trigger hits on keyword searches as well.

        • That might be enough for getting an internship or, if you're lucky, a first job. However, after that, being able to speak confidently from work experience carries 10x the weight of "familiar with". If a person really did help to install a network, that means a lot, IMO. Being able to recite all the OSI network layers from a book is nice, but it lacks a component of real responsibility.

          This also extends to non-job things, too. There's a reason why joining a club or taking up a sport is significant, esep

  • Learning over content (Score:3, Insightful)

    by globalar ( 669767 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @03:32PM (#12393365) Homepage
    Open the classified's section of your local paper and look for a decent job. Notice how many, many jobs require a B.A./B.S. That is the reality. You can't really plan on securing one job and keeping it forever. You also can't really guarantee (in most cases) that you will always be doing the type of work you planned. You need to be flexible.

    The content - the specific details - that you learn in school may or may not be applicable in 5-10 years. However, your ability to retrain yourself and gain new skills will always apply when you are motivated. Make sure you education is flexible enough to serve you long-term.

  • Trade school is best (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Jerim ( 872022 )

    The University will waste your time and money with classes that have no bearing on your job. The University usually focuses on theory and generalizations of concepts with some specifics. Universities are more interested in creating a well rounded educated employee. But, employers don't care if you took Western Civ. They want to know if you can fix their network. Having said that, you do need to understand network theory. Learning how to run a MS based network is different from actually knowing how networks

    • Re:Trade school is best (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ankh ( 19084 ) * on Saturday April 30, 2005 @05:26PM (#12393950) Homepage
      One day you might not want to be a systems administrator. Or you night find that because of advances in Microsoft Windows fewer staff are needed. Or the company you work for might switch to Linux, and you suddenly find your skills don't transfer over as well as you had hoped, and some newer college kid gets your job. You might find that some aspects of system administration get outsourced to a virtual call centre in India.

      In a lot of large companies, to get into management, you need a degree. Experience alone isn't enough.

      > The University will waste your time and money with classes that have no bearing on your job.
      No. Life is about more than a job, and university will give yuo a much broader perspective. Unless you want to be a corporate drone or slave for the rest ofyour life, you need to about things that you might not choose to study by yourself. And one day you'll need the contacts, too, the people you met, and the ability to take a longer-term view of life.

      A trade school is OK perhaps if you want to be a tradesman, but think of all the CP/M administration skills people learned at trade schools. Not heard of CP/M? Try MS-DOS. What will you learn? Windows 98? Windows XP? It'll be as obsolete within five years. So you need to learn how to learn, and to do that you need to go to the right place for you, and no-one else can tell you where that is.

      Try to talk to people who graduated, and see if you can find people similar to yourself.

      Your interests will also change (mine did) as you encounter new ideas. The more new ideas you encounter early on, the better idea you'll have of what you want to do, what interests you, what you're good at. The money isn't wasted., unless you throw it away by ignoring the oportunities.

      Liam

      • This particular question came from a person who wants to be a network admin. Nothing about being a manager was discussed. For the sole purpose of working on networks, I stick by the trade school. A person will get more hands on experience and everything they learn and pay for will relate directly to their job. Trade schools may not be the intillectual equivalent of college, but most employers aren't going to be impressed with degrees anyway. Doesn't matter if it is college or trade shool, they will probe yo

    • The University will waste your time and money with classes that have no bearing on your job. The University usually focuses on theory and generalizations of concepts with some specifics. Universities are more interested in creating a well rounded educated employee. But, employers don't care if you took Western Civ.

      My boss pays me to be well-spoken and literate so that when I come up with a new way to make his system work better, I can explain it to him and our customers. I don't know where all of these o

      • I don't know what field you work in, but this question was specifically about networking. Having worked around that area and interviewed for some positions, I haven't met one CS graduate. They are all paper certs. This person wanted to know what was best for working in a network environment. Trade school is still the best way to go. Just because you don't go to college doesn't mean you can't be well-spoken and literate.
    • I agree. I know I want to go on the technical/production end of broadcasting, so I chose the two-year school over the major university in my city. While taking fun classes like international macro-economics and womens issues in the 1800s may make me a more rounded person, I'd rather be spending my time and money taking nothing but video production, sound editing and lighting classes.
      • And when you go to interview for jobs, you will have an easier time convincing people to hire you. Simply because you will be more comfortable because you have so much hands on experiencing. The college grads aren't going to impress much with their stunning knowledge of literature or micro-biology.
        • The college grads aren't going to impress much with their stunning knowledge of literature or micro-biology.

          One of my interviewers (in America) asked me a question in German. I replied in Spanish. They were amused enough that I got the job. No class you'll take in a trade school will help you with those kinds of curveballs.

          It's also not unheard of for a boss to drag his admin in front of some customers, and I assure you that they probably won't want to talk shop over dinner. Being able to discuss p

    • The University will waste your time and money with classes that have no bearing on your job.

      That's what's good about them.

    • The problem is that by going to trade school you are locking yourself into doing network admin - most places aren't even going to look twice at somebody with a tech school diploma and networking experience to even go into system administration until they go get more certs. The tech school training is always going to leave you marked as a person that knows how to do specific things, things that are indicated by the title of your degree & the certifications you have. With a BA/BS employers (remember - m
      • Didn't the person specifically say that they wanted to be a network admin? Why is everyone introducing these alternate scenarios in to a very simple case. Now if the person wanted to be a network admin and hopefully one day move on to be a programmer, or systems admin then my opinion would be different. But this person specifically stated what they wanted to be, a network admin. Since this person only wants one thing, I am not going to introduce "if you ever want to be a (insert job here)" scenarios. No sin
        • I really don't know the difference between a Network Admin and a Systems Admin. Can you explain the difference to me?
          • Most places use the term interchangeably. However, in general a network admin is responsible for just the network such as servers, security and connectivity. Systems Admin is a catch all that can include the network as well as desktop OS, applications, programming, etc.

  • Neither! (Score:1, Troll)

    by Baloo Ursidae ( 29355 )
    All you really need if you're serious about a career in networking is:
    • High school diploma
    • Know your shit

    Anything else is more time, money and expense to go through that ultimately won't make you more employable than the guy with the high school diploma who can back up his story convincingly in the interview. I met many college-educated network admin wannabes that failed to get the job because I showed up with a high school diploma and can run circles around the competition in my sleep.

    If you make i

    • Good thing I am 16 now :)

    • Your post doesn't present any usable advice. You can't get a job in a field without experience and you can't get experience without a job. So how does one get into the field? They either start at the very bottom and hope to one day work their way up to where they want to be; or they get some type of education in the subject.

      I am tired of people saying that all you need is "to know what you are doing." But these people never explain how they "know what they are doing." Experience counts in any profession, s

      • You can't get a job in a field without experience and you can't get experience without a job. So how does one get into the field?

        Any quality school system in the US at least offers students an internship program with various local businesses. Where I went to school, internships weren't only available, they were mandatory for graduation. Apparently, having a quality school system is rare, or I wouldn't have gotten what is essentially a "but I didn't have a quality high school education, you insensitive

        • The person said all you need is a HS Diploma and to know your stuff. You have introduced education into a conversation that excluded education. You say that "you could go the clueless route and not know what you are doing." I am not the one advocating that, that is what the message I was replying to was advocating. I am not the one say you don't need education, the other person is. I basically agree with everything you said and have since the beginning.
  • You get great life experiences at college. You have bragging rights that you are a college graduate. College graduates make more money than non-college graduates. You get the proper instruction that you need from very smart professors. You have a whole network of faculty and student members who you can bring your questions to. You can work part time or volunteer and gain work experience AND a college degree. Go get your 4 year degree, it will pay for itself hundreds of times over in the long run.
  • Those aren't your only choices. A lot of community colleges have really good IT programs -- and are a lot cheaper than private trade schools. Plus while you're there, you can pick up some liberal arts courses that will be very handy if you decide to transfer to a 4-year school -- or realize the dangers of a too-narrow education [slashdot.org].

    The only problem is that CCs vary a lot in what they offer, and you might have to look pretty far afield to find one with that suits your needs. I took some IT courses once at Col

  • If you can make it through college, do it. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pyite ( 140350 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @04:56PM (#12393797)
    However, be wary of "engineering technology" type degrees. Typically, you'll be wasting your time and money. If you're going to go to college, go for the gold and get a real degree: math, physics, computer science, engineering, etc. These are a lot more impressive than a trade school diploma with B.S. on it. That said, work while in school. Nothing is more worthless than a degree without work experience. There is a delicate balance to strike. Getting a trade school type degree is a quick and easy way to start out but might hamper your future advancement as upper level jobs are almost certain to require a four year degree.

  • Bad question (Score:4, Informative)

    by xenocide2 ( 231786 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @05:16PM (#12393898) Homepage
    If you just want to be a network admin, there's really little need for any X-year degree, although if you take it seriously, it can help you develop critical writing, reading and analytical skills nessecary to be successful in the business world. For configuring routers and plugging cables together, a 4 year Bachelor's degree would quite simply be overkill. And you might even find out you'd rather be doing something else instead of Network Administration.

    The benefits of the degree here is mostly a worst case scenario. Imagine if Dell, Intel and Cisco got their shit together and realized they could offer their business clients a shitload of value by making a secure and quickly configurable networking system, complete with wireless and other staff reducing technologies. All they'd need is one guy on staff to handle the purchasing and manage the hiring of a few local punks from the local high school to run a few wires to access points over the summer. Now the company wins, the manager might lose a bit of self-importance as his staff and budget is being cut, but the two year degree guy is SOL. I suppose he can go back for another two year degree, although its usually far harder to go back the second time, either because of family or a fodness for material goods and car repairs.

    Right now, you're the local high school punk. If you find and study for one or two certs, you should be able to pick up some work. I've seen ads for A+ people in the classifieds, and you can use that income to pick up something serious. As much as I dislike vendor certifications, it is my understanding that Cisco is really respected within IT departments (compared to say, microsoft certs). Long term outlook isn't much better than a two year degree, espcially something like ITT or DeVry. Remember that these places have shareholders; giving accurate but negative advice on the future outlook would hurt enrollment and share price, subsequently. If you're lucky, you make your way to department manager. Otherwise, I hear nursing's always in demand.

    The four year degree offers flexibility. Sure, they'll throw a lot of crap at you, and so much of it that very little actually applies to any particular of today's jobs, but you'll also be prepared for far more than just network administration. Furthermore, you're also that much more prepared and likely to be accepted into an MBA program, which often becomes a prerequisite for promotion in the kinds of large networking environments that would need someone with a degree full time.

    In summary, a four year degree lends you flexibility, and the two year degree locks you into a career path you may not be happy with five years from now. It's a tragic fact of life that the most important career choices are made now, when you're least informed and capable of making them. As Paul Graham said, stick with the choices that expand future choices, rather than limit them.

  • No question, get the paper (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ridgelift ( 228977 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @05:23PM (#12393940)
    I'm 35 years old and have been working with computers for over 23 of those years. I made the choice to not get a degree in Computer Science. Even though I've had a good career as a Sys Admin and independant consultant, I think my decision to not get a 4 year degree was one of the worst I've made.

    I got a 2 year diploma as an electronics technician, which at the time was a good paying job. Tell me, how many jobs are out there for board-level electronics repair today? Network administration will go the same way. Oh sure there'll be some jobs out there, but not necessarily 10 years from now.

    Get your degree. It's a small amount of time, and even if you decide to not stick with computers, having that degree opens the doors to everything else.
    • It depends. A degree can sometimes make you 'too expensive' to hire. Certainly a masters or ph.d can easily do that, but even a bs can do it when you're competing against inexpensive foreigners.

      In the end ive discovered its not really what you know but who you know that matters. :/
  • Worked for me. I'm a network admin for a large publishing company. Funny, they hired me because they wanted someone with "humanities experience". Since I think there's probably only one of those in the world (me), things worked out perfectly.

    Of course, I'm still working toward going back to school for CS. There are a lot of interesting things to do in IT, but IMHO none as interesting as computer science.

  • GO TO College (Score:3, Informative)

    by mpechner ( 637217 ) on Saturday April 30, 2005 @11:24PM (#12395983) Homepage

    Call me a troll if you need but....
    after many years of working with people who have not gone to college and those who have, a software engineer or a system administrator that goes to college always has the advantage.

    From the 80's of blowing away today's equivilent of heald graduates, to the boom and outsourcing of today where there is no way in Hell India can create 200,000 skilled computer people all from colleges that are as good as ours overnight.

    I've been though it all. I've been kicking ass for 23 years. I'm still learning. I'm still reinventing myself. People still feel I have more than enough to contribute.

    People who truly go to a 4 year school and learn logic, mathmatics, the algorithms, concepts of multiple computer languages, how to build a compiler, how to create a database. The difference between database and data base, so their, errr... there. This is important. You will use it all, if you are lucky.

    A 2 year school teaches just how and what. A college teaches you all 5, what, when where, why and how. When you know why, you can keep learning. If you only know what, your always behind waiting for the next guy to tell you! In this market, you have to reinvent yourself every 3-4 years.

    So if a 2 year school gets you working sooner, then go for it. Then do not be disappointed when some "college puke" takes your next job from you.

    Now if you want to take the 8 years to earn a degree part time, more power to you. I had to finish school part time. It is truly hard.

    • it doesnt seem to matter anymore, companies will compare you with your CS degree to kumar from bangalore. kumar has a CS degree too, and he is much cheaper.

      you don't think india can create 200k skilled CS grads overnight? they don't need to do it overnight -- they are out there already. and lots more are coming. you're talking about a country with a population more than three times that of the US.

      it's gotten to the point where americans are going to india to get degrees and jobs now. it will be interestin
  • Leaving high school, I was certain I wanted to do something with computers... but who knew what? I went to a largish university with a good undergraduste CS program. It was only during the course of those four years that I realized that systems administration and network engineering were what I really wanted to do. Meanwhile, many of my peers had changed major once or several times. My point is that it's unlikely that what you want now is what you'll want later. Keep your options open.

    In the other directio
    • I am fairly confident I don't want to do anything else. A couple years ago, I knew I wanted to do something with computers. There are obviously a lot of choices. These were the ones I was thinking about.
      • Computer Science
      • Computer Engineering
      • Tech Support
      • Systems Administration

      After taking a class in computer science, I quickly realized that was not for me. I cannot understand for the life of me, complicated high-level languages like Java and C++. However, on my own I learned some PHP Javascript, and

  • That degree is pretty much crap. They are going to teach you about computers, networks, administration, etc. without any Computer Science or Engineering, or anything on the business side either (good to know what your boss or boss's boss is talking about). Get a degree that actually teaches you about the hardware and/or software.

  • Simple observation: (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MythMoth ( 73648 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @01:24PM (#12409386) Homepage
    I have never met anyone who went to university and regretted it later. I have met quite a few people who did not go to university and do regret that.

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