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Software The Almighty Buck

Software Companies and Lost Serial Numbers? 173

Posted by Cliff from the what-are-we-really-buying dept.
Frustrated by "Customer Support" asks: "My company purchased a retail boxed piece of software from a small company about 8 months ago, before I worked here. My predecessor was not organized at all, and he misplaced the serial numbers. Now it's time for that software to get reinstalled, but we're unable to due to the missing numbers. I contacted support for the company, and they indicated that they were unable to provide replacement keys, even after I faxed them my proof of purchase. The company claims it's the customer's responsibility to keep track of the keys, and that they're unable to supply replacements as the key could still be used to run there software. I find this totally ludicrous, as we've paid for a license to use the software. So Slashdot, does a missing serial number or software key invalidate your license to a piece of software that you purchased? Does one have any recourse to get a replacement serial from a company that won't supply them? Does one purchase software or do you purchase serial numbers?"
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Software Companies and Lost Serial Numbers? More

Software Companies and Lost Serial Numbers?

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  • The answer is obvious... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jhon ( 241832 ) * on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:18PM (#12560095) Homepage Journal
    Don't lose the keys.

    I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be unhelpful, but thats really the best solution. It's not difficult -- a simple excell sheet with product names and reg keys. Store it someplace safe -- which gets backed up with everything else. The actual paperwork? A simple binder with clear folders. Just stuff all your keys/serials there.

    Since you are already *IN* that boat, you may want to try a few things on some test platforms:

    (a) install the software on new platform
    (b) copy the install directory from the old to the new platform
    (c) cross fingers

    or

    (a) install the software on the new platform
    (b) copy the registry entries created by the old software to the new platform
    (c) cross fingers

    or

    (a) install the software on the new platform
    (b) crack open your handy disasmbler/softice combo
    (c) attempt to ID the protection and disable it
    (d) cross your fingers

    Don't expect any of these things to work, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Other places you may look for hidden keys: win.ini, *.dll (usually created by the installed software), *.ini, *.cfg, etc etc etc. Keep a sharp eye and you may get lucky but as a betting man, I'd bet that you are going to be buying new licences, though.
    I find this totally ludicrous, as we've paid for a license to use the software.
    My guess is that you can't show that you haven't transfered those licences to another party.

  • Just crack it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:19PM (#12560113)
    Just search for a serial number or a crack for the software, and then never purchase software from that company again.

    • Re:Just crack it (Score:5, Insightful)

      by c0d3h4x0r ( 604141 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @06:04PM (#12560644) Homepage Journal
      Totally agree. You're within your ethical right to do so if you already paid for the software. You're probably in your legal right as well... check the fine print / EULA. They're usually licensing the SOFTWARE to you, not a particular SERIAL NUMBER or KEY... if the EULA doesn't mention the key at all, then you should probably be in your legal right to use any crack or key you obtain to install the software you've legitimately bought. Although IANAUCL (I Am Not An Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer).

      • I would tell customers that the serial number is an integral part of the software. Losing that is like losing the CD that it came on.

        This is one of the things I love about Valve's Steam, as much as I hate some of the licencing terms: If you should ever completely lose everything you ever had related to the software, you can still buy a new box, enter your username/password, and download everything or borrow a "backup" from a friend.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • I believe that by "buy a new box" he meant if you lost "everything" you probably have to buy a new computer. Or at least a new harddrive. I wouldn't trust a harddrive that lost everything once already... unless maybe it was a virus or the like.

          • Uhh... if you lose everything related to Valve's software, all you have to do is download steam, enter your password, download the software, and play.

            I suspect that's why he said "buy a new box, enter your username and password, and download everything or borrow a backup from a friend." (emphasis mine)

            You're both saying the same thing. You can either download it all from Valve, or install off a backup CD that you made, or that you borrow from a friend.
          • What I said:

            "If you should ever completely lose everything... you can still buy a new box (as in PC), enter your username/password, and download everything OR borrow a backup from a friend."

            I guess I'm treating a PC as "something related to the software".

            What you said:

            "You don't have to borrow or buy anything in order to get the game back. You can even burn the data [option to borrow] in case you have to format."

            That was my whole point, the whole reason for my post -- as long as you have the username/

        • As a software buyer... (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          I wouldn't want to buy from a someone like you.

          I would tell customers that the serial number is an integral part of the software. Losing that is like losing the CD that it came on.

          Right and every software vender I know will replace lost or damaged media from a nominal fee. I own a license and I have a right to use it. Remember we are talking about a business buying software. This isn't a game purchase. By contacting you as asking for a replacement, they risk an audit. The whole world isn't trying

    • Re:Just crack it (Score:3, Informative)

      by BoomerSooner ( 308737 )
      There are places to do this [astalavista.box.sk]. Make certain you have java turned off and pop-ups off too...
  • If they can't disable the lost key then I understand. If they can because it's an online service then I feel a replacement shuold be made.

  • Serial Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pyrrhonist ( 701154 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:23PM (#12560155)
    So Slashdot, does a missing serial number or software key invalidate your license to a piece of software that you purchased?

    No, you paid for the software and you have the original disks. Most companies will gladly send you another serial number. It's a support issue, and they shouldn't have a problem with it. Even Microsoft will replace a lost serial number.

    Does one have any recourse to get a replacement serial from a company that won't supply them?

    Yes, write a letter to their CEO, cc your state's AG, the BBB, and the FTC.

    • Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)

      by thejaded1 ( 582827 ) <paul.capitalzero@net> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:34PM (#12560265)
      Further, is it actually illegal to grab some keys off the net for products you have purchased? They say they can't replace them. In the event of them coming down on you, how would they verify that you had "illegitimate" keys?

      • Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Informative)

        by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:43PM (#12560377)
        Here's how I've been told he SPA works (assuming they even bother to do an audit of you in the first place).

        (We're also assuming that you have in fact purchased the software in question, and are using either duplicate serials or pirated serials for the sake of convenience.)
        1. They audit your machines...they find either pirated or duplicate keys.
        2. They ask: "What's up with these keys? Did you in fact purchase our software?
        3. You answer: "Of course we did."
        4. They challenge: "OK...then let's see your proof of purchase/COAs/etc."
        5. You show them the required proof.
        6. They go home.

          Software companies don't care if their products are licensed properly...that's just a means to an end. What they are really concerned about is whether or not they have your money.

        • I think you mean:

          6. They sue you for distributing your key. (After all, you've proven that you were the one that purchased the key that is circulating around the internet.)

          • No, you just proved that you licensed the software, not that the license came with that specific key. Also, legally, wouldn't they have to prove that you didn't license it?

      • Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Informative)

        by pyrrhonist ( 701154 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:49PM (#12560454)
        Further, is it actually illegal to grab some keys off the net for products you have purchased? They say they can't replace them.

        Well, you'd need to ask a lawyer, but even so, I find it hard to believe that a judge would find for the company under the circumstances.

        In the event of them coming down on you, how would they verify that you had "illegitimate" keys?

        • They actually do know what keys they gave you (doubtful - it's obvious that this company doesn't keep track of it's licenses).
        • They already gave out the key to someone else (doubtful, see above).
        • The key is on their list of, "compromised keys".
        • Their key generating algorithm doesn't produce keys that look like that (i.e. it passes the program's verifier, but it has none of the other information in it that a real key would have).

        • Re:Serial Numbers (Score:2, Insightful)

          by jazman_777 ( 44742 )
          Well, you'd need to ask a lawyer, but even so, I find it hard to believe that a judge would find for the company under the circumstances.

          You know what, Slashdot? Your common sense means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to legal issues. You "can't see something happening" means it could very well happen in a court of law. Lots of disappointed folks come out of courtrooms, because the judge applied his convoluted understanding of an arcane law, and COMMON SENSE lost.

          • Your common sense means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to legal issues.

            Holy shit dude! Calm down, that's why I told him to see a lawyer. It's the first thing I said, in fact.

      • Further, is it actually illegal to grab some keys off the net for products you have purchased?
        Did this once. There appears to be a very strange mystical connection between warezed serial numbers and porn. I got a serial number, but I also ended up with a screen filled with of hundreds of popup ads for porn sites (some of them animated). Wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't happened at, er, an inappropriate place and time.
        • There appears to be a very strange mystical connection between warezed serial numbers and porn.

          The connection is a certain class of "ethics". The people who distribute serialz on the net generally don't have any compunctions against distributing pornographic adware. Heck, serialz may simply be the bait they use to get eyeballs for their popup commissions.

          On the occasions (like the one described here) in which I'm forced to go looking for a serial number, I make sure I do it on a machine that lacks the

    • Re:Serial Numbers (Score:3, Informative)

      by Thing 1 ( 178996 )
      Yes, write a letter to their CEO, cc your state's AG, the BBB, and the FTC.

      And cc: Slashdot as well, so we know who not to do business with in the future.

      In fact, I find it a little odd that the Slashdot Asker didn't list the company in question. It's frustrating to know there's an evil company and not be able to flood their 800 lines! ;-)

  • I know you've talked to the company... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:25PM (#12560173)
    ...but have you asked them to resupply your original serial(s)? Surely they'd keep track of the serial numbers they've given out in the past, right? How much money are we talking about if you have to repurchase the software?
    • " Surely they'd keep track of the serial numbers they've given out in the past, right?"

      If he bought it off the shelf at Office Depot, that wouldn't work.

      If he bought it directly from them, I'd like to know which company it was so I could make sure I'd never do business with them.
    • Doubt it. I'll bet they're typically a string of random alphanumeric junk hashed with a secret key and printed onto a form and dumped in the box. They have no friggen idea what your serial number was.

      • Re:I know you've talked to the company... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        So they generate new ones. It isn't hard. We use a scheme much like that at work (I'm posting anonymously so you can't guess who we are), and several people have access to the key-gen program. It is trivial to generate a new key. We might ask for a statement that you won't use the old keys to keep on file.

        Frankly, we would be disappointed in any slashdot reader who could not break our license scheme. We use it for two reasons. First, it keeps the honest people honest - you don't accidentally add

    • but have you asked them to resupply your original serial(s)?

      That's the problems right there. The droid working the support line needs you to ask the question in just the right way. They really should have records of past serial nos/activation codes/license keys/whatever they call them. You may just have gotten some comissioned yutz on the phone who thinks he can score another sale. My company can go back years, to the time that we started using a license-key type of mechanism, and find every license k

  • Hack it? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Albigg ( 658831 )
    Hacked keys aren't too hard to find these days. I know you shouldn't have to do that at a job. Let's face it, at the end of the day you need to get your job done.

  • Name names! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:28PM (#12560211)
    Why the secret? Who is this company and what's the name of the product?

    Some of us might be in a position to buy or recommend this kind of software someday, and the information may help guide our choices.

    Of course I don't usually use proprietary software, and especially not one with these kinds of ridiculous terms. If you hand your rights over to a company (specifically, the right to run a piece of software legally obtained, which is spelled out in copyright law), you will get burned sooner or later!
    • I don't know why this got Modded down... we all need to know the name of this scumbag company, so we don't get stuck in the same trap.

      --Mike--

    • Re:Name names! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by willfe ( 6537 ) <willfe@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:57PM (#12560564) Homepage

      Hear, hear!

      I'm keen to know who would honestly behave like this as well; if they're a big company, they wouldn't normally be this uptight about it (even Microsoft will replace missing/damaged product keys), and if they're small, they wouldn't want to risk losing business like that.

      Odd, then, that this company is behaving like this.

      • I also agree. I lost my key to GetRight [getright.com] about a year ago, and within a few hours of me requesting some way to recover my key to reinstall it on my new computer, a professional, friendly email was waiting in my inbox with the necessary key. I find it pretty funny that a SMALL company would actually have such trouble keeping track of their customers, especially the business ones!
    • Why the secret? Who is this company and what's the name of the product?...

      Of course, coming from an AC, that's priceless.
  • I used to work for a company that sold software on a commercial basis with all licenses etc. etc. Every company keeps a database of their customers and their license keys. So you should be able to get the original key back, or get the company who sold you their software to invalidate your existing key and give you a new one. If the company you bought the software from, does not provide such a support, it would be a good time to start looking elsewhere for similar software.

  • lost keys to new car? tough luck! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by arcanumas ( 646807 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:32PM (#12560250) Homepage
    It is indeed ludicrus.
    Imagine loosing your keys to your Ford and the company tells you "i'm sorry. It's your responsibility to take care of the keys. You can buy a new and improved ford however"
    • Imagine loosing your keys to your Ford and the company tells you "i'm sorry. It's your responsibility to take care of the keys. You can buy a new and improved ford however"
      Ever lost your (car) keys? I have.

      Any reputable locksmith or car dealer is going to treat you like a thief until you can prove the car is yours. (They don't like being stalking horses for amateur repo men you - nor potential fines and/or jail time for aiding and abetting a crime.)

      • Any reputable locksmith or car dealer is going to treat you like a thief until you can prove the car is yours. (They don't like being stalking horses for amateur repo men you - nor potential fines and/or jail time for aiding and abetting a crime.)

        A housemate lost his entire key ring a month ago. A locksmith came to the house, made a key, charged $80 and drove off. He asked for nothing in terms of ID.

        Reputable? I don't know, but he was the closest guy in the Yellow Pages.
    • Depending on the make/model of car, how the keys are cut/programmed, etc. it's entirely possible that you would have to pay loads of money to get the keys replaced.

      On new BMW's for instance, there are several (I think I was told 7) sets of keys cut and programmed when the locksets and ignition were installed into the car. If you lose the keys, you can order your replacement keys while they still exist. After you run out of keys, you have to replace all the locks and the ignition in the car and have the ECU
      • True, but not exactly what i was trying to say.
        My (maybe failed) analogy was that loosing your car keys would require buying a new car in the same way that loosing your software keys requires buying a new software package.

        Surely, you wouldn't buy a new BMW when you lost your car keys.

    • You would be well within your rights to contact a locksmith. Does the same apply to software?
  • When you find your keys be sure to take a picture of them and print up flyers and tack them up on telephone poles with a FOUND notice. Post them on your website too.

  • Don't buy from consumer-hostile companies (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Cecil ( 37810 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:35PM (#12560281) Homepage
    It's obvious to most people that people buy the right to use a piece of software, not a magic number. Check out Ambrosia's Lost registration code policy [ambrosiasw.com] as an example of a company who understands this.
  • The software company is being rude, but they may be within their rights.

    The thing is, whoever was supposed to be keeping track of keys wasn't doing their job. Somebody in the organization should have been tracking this stuff. Usually, it's an IT manager or the senior sysadmin, but sometimes, it's the person in accounting who cut the check.

    Sure, take agressive steps to get another key (be a pest, contact the BBB, etc.), but the real lesson here is that your company shouldn't have lost the key in the firs
    • So you charge a small service charge for the lost keys. Having tons of customers calling when they lose keys might be an annoyance, but a service charge would dissuade carelessness while still providing service for lost keys.
    • Try that argument with something other than software. Say, a car, a house, a boat. Nobody would be supporting a company that says if you lost one of those keys "tough shit, buy another car and be more careful next time".

      Keys get lost, that's one of the reasons that there are as many locksmiths in business. The company are being assholes, and the very first thing the poster should do is go get a crack for the software to start migrating all of their data out of that package, then go find someone who sell

  • Simple... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by over_exposed ( 623791 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:38PM (#12560312) Homepage
    Send a bill to your predecessor for the cost of a new license. It was his responsibility. It was a company asset. He lost it. Would it be any different if he had a company laptop and "lost" it before he quit/was let go?
    • That's just as bullshit as the company refusing to honor your previous sale. The slip of paper with the serial number was lost in the course of doing business. Eat it.
  • 1) If it comes with a cd-key, like a game often does nowadays or Windows does, just write it on the disk itself with a sharpie when you first get it.

    That way, when the box or case is missing, and all you can find is the CD, you're still good. Not that this helps you now ...

    2) If it's expensive `enterprise' software, the company really should keep track of who bought what serial number. They should be able to give you the same key again.

    3) and if all else fails, just use a key you find on the

    • One problem that I've run into is that the server's disk has crashed and nobody can find the CD or its case. It was last seen several years ago when the software was installed. Sure, someone should be keeping track of such things, but that's a level of planning and organization that isn't present in some companies.

  • Read the EULA (Score:2, Insightful)

    by fok ( 449027 )
    What the license says?
    There must be a explicit term in the EULA for this type os misfortune. Something like "If PURCHASER loose the product key, the product will not be able to be reinstalled by PURCHASER, as COMPANY does not replace product keys in any way."
    Any other case, get a loyer...
  • During a (rather large) office move and subsequent reinventory of hardware and software, an on-site consultant accidently knocked an ARCServe disc off a table. It fell to the floor, pancaked and shattered. This was the über-site license version for Novell -- not a cheap piece of software.

    We contacted whoever owned ARCServe back then (this was around 1997ish), and they couldn't believe it, but they said "Okay, send us proof of the broken disc, and we'll send you a new one". So I told somebody in the department to fax them the disc. An hour later they returned with the pieces. "Uhh... how do I... err...?"

    So I walked them over to the photocopier, laid down the pieces, copied them and handed him the copy. "There. That should be easier".

    Heh. Temporary cognitive disconnect in an otherwise intelligent person. I still picture them standing in front of the fax machine with the cover sheet, parts of the disc and a determined look.

    --
    Evan

    • I got the task to install a tape library option for ArcServe on a large customer's Netware 5 system. Everything worked fine, but the installer wouldn't take the serial no. Reinstall several times, called the hotline. No avail. Then at the third try at the hotline after the usual 30 min. of bad music: "I want to install yadayadayada... Netware 5.... yadayada. Serial does not work". The hotline guy: "Yes. Your serial number does not work on Netware 5." "Beg your pardon ?" "The serial number that is printed on
      • But that was when ArcServe was already in the bloody claws of CA and beginning its slide into the abyss of CA software quality.

        I have always wondered how the hell CA has stayed in business for so long.
      • Actually, that was due to a change in the way netware counted users (25 to 30) from version to version, the old keys were expecting workgroup to only have 25 users as in nw4 and wouldnt work on nw5 workgroup because it had 5 free extra users for 30 total. or something like that, from what i recall.

  • Since Nobody's Actually Offered up Actual Help... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by willfe ( 6537 ) <willfe@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:55PM (#12560531) Homepage

    Read the EULA for the app if it's handy (or available), just to make sure, but I believe in most cases using a keygen (if one is available) to get the application installed and running isn't actually against the EULA (which just wants you not to run the app on more than one computer without multiple licenses or copy it for your friends).

    You can show you've paid for the application. You can show you've tried to resolve the situation in good faith with the vendor, and presumably you can show they were uncooperative. Obviously, you don't tell them you're using the keygen, and you keep complaining to their support group and even their ownership until you get your key back, but you've got your application up and running at least.

    If they do somehow figure out you're using a keygen and get huffy/legal with you, you've got plenty to show a court that you are entitled to use the application because you paid for it and that you tried to clear it up with them.

    It goes without saying you shouldn't (if you have any choice) do any business with a company like this again. Also, though you already know this, keep better track of keys next time as well.

    The only other helpful suggestion I've seen here so far is to keep pestering the company's support team until they cave in, or get the BBB or AG involved (or both). Trying to contact the company's owners or upper management might be a good idea, too.

    One final tip: if you've been dealing with the support minions by phone or e-mail, stop. Do it in writing, to leave a paper trail and give them a better sense of urgency about the problem. Make it clear that you will not stop until they make this right; letters are far more powerful and effective in this than persistent phone calls or e-mails.

  • Part of the cost of using commercial software (Score:5, Insightful)

    by linuxwrangler ( 582055 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @06:13PM (#12560759)
    Admittedly, I don't tend to read volumes of cost comparisons between open-source and proprietary software but one thing I haven't seen in the cost comparisons I have read is the cost of managing licenses. In my experience this is non-trivial.

    As you have noted here there is a cost in wasted time dealing with the vendor and probably in down-time for your users who need the software.

    Even if the key wasn't lost there is a cost in maintaining the records of keys.

    If you can't convince them to provide you with your key then there may be the cost of buying another copy if you decide to continue doing business with the crooks who are currently screwing you.

    I have personally spent days with tech-support trying to work around buggy activation schemes. This was not only lost time for me but for the projects that relied on the equipment in question.

    I've also had to battle with vendors to get rid of evergreen clauses or to carefully track them when they couldn't be removed.

    Then there is the recent issue with certain Adobe software not installing on machines with RAID arrays (you are installing on multiple disks which is prohibited...). Go figure.

    And the issue of Intuit not providing keys for old versions of software even though they acknowledge that they have them. Upgrade or kiss your data goodby.

    When you add users or machines you need to track your license status, get purchase orders, etc. Renegotiating bulk contracts, watching out for evergreen clauses and such takes legal and management time.

    One need only scroll through a few of Ed Foster's "Gripe Line" columns from InfoWorld to see how much pain product activation is causing.

    Good luck.
  • Suppose your disk suffered layer-separation and a replacement was your only option. Don't most companies offer replacement if the media goes bad? Well, the new disk likely comes with a new key. And the fee for replacement is usually small. Finally, the paying of such a fee could be a suitable reminder to keep the new key from getting lost.
  • Imagine if you bought a book that had a lock on it. You received the key with the book as you purchased it, and were able to unlock the book to read it. Now imagine that you lose that key. What can you do? You could force your way into the book or try to get a locksmith to make a new key for you. But it's your copy of the book and you have a right to read it anytime you like, right? In fact, if you got sick of unlocking the book evertime you wanted to use it, couldn't you just bypass the lock altogether?

    With propietary software, you have no such rights. In fact, the rights you do have are surprisingly few. Let's pretend you were using the software and the company that made the software fell off the face of the earth. Now you have no recourse whatsoever. Let's consider that you are using the software and you discover an error. Are you allowed to fix it? At least with the book, you can mark in your copy and even add or remove pages. But you can't do that with the copy of the software you purchased.

    Let's say you like the book a lot, and you want to share it with your friends. That's totally legal with a book, but not with software. Some licenses are so restricted that you can't allow more than one person to use the computer if it is installed on that computer.

    Stop paying people for limited rights to use software. Start contributing to the solution: sensibly copyrighted software in the free and open source communities.
    • Remember Borlund Software, and their first product, Turbo Pascal? The license said, "Treat this software like a book. Use it, yourself. Loan it to a friend. But you and your friend can't use it at the same time.

      Eminently sensible. This too has passed.
      • A book is less easily reproducable than software though. Sure you can take time and run a book through the photocopier, but unless you're a college student on a budget who would actually do this?

        Not that I think serial keys and/or other such means are a good idea... they annoy much more than they protect as quite often the crack is available within a week of the product's release or possibly even before!
    • Yes, because all proprietary software is that bad.

      By way of an example, if you're an MSDN subscriber you can access all your serial keys online on MS's subscriber website.

      By way of another example, Oracle doesn't use any technological means to enforce its licensing policies at all. It's up to you to pay them for the product - you can download the full software from their website. Use it in production and you have to pay, but they don't try to *force* you to pay.

      By all means, boycott pay-for/closed source

  • Lightscape (Score:3, Informative)

    by robson ( 60067 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @07:59PM (#12561656)
    I bought a personal copy of Lightscape 3.0, a radiosity rendering package, back in 1997. At the time, the license system involved the following steps:

    1.Install Lightscape.
    2.Enter serial number into installer.
    3.Installer gives you a second number.
    4.Send the first and second numbers to Lightscape, who will then generate a third number and send that to you.
    5.Run Lightscape and type in the third number.

    From there, you're "set". Of course, that second number was completely machine-dependent, so you need to get a new third number from Lightscape every time you upgrade your machine.

    Oops... except Lightscape was bought and assimilated by Autodesk, who stopped supporting the app in July 2003. The problem here, of course, is that where Lightscape is concerned, "support" was necessary simply to install the product.

    Guess as a paying consumer, that's just what I get for patronizing a company with a draconian licensing scheme.

    • Re:Lightscape (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @10:01PM (#12562670)
      > stopped supporting the app in July 2003

      I know that feeling. Red Hat screwed-over all of the people that bought their credit card processing software. We bought almost $12,000 worth of licenses to CCVS, and we need to change our merchant account #. That requires changing the software key. Red Hat made an intentional decision to no longer provide the keys. They even removed the damn documentation from their web site. Our accounting system and online store ties-into the system via both the C and PHP libraries. Changing the interface to the credit card system is going to cost us a lot of time and money. I'm the only full-time IT person now (down from 21 at peak four years ago), so changing everything means I'm looking at 80 hour weeks for probably the next three or four months.

      I will never buy anything else from Red Hat. My boss also sold his more than 20,000 shares of Red Hat after they screwed us. I've had a bad experience with Microsoft, but they're always indifferently incompetent. Red Hat screwed the CCVS customers over on purpose.

      I met several of the Red Hat guys at the Linux Expo in 1997 at the NC Biotech Center. They talked to me about a job offer, but I didn't follow-up on it. Jeff Uphoff from NRAO made several negative comments about them, and thankfully I followed my gut feeling. I'm very glad I didn't take a job with a dishonest group like that.
      • We bought almost $12,000 worth of licenses to CCVS, and we need to change our merchant account #. That requires changing the software key. Red Hat made an intentional decision to no longer provide the keys. They even removed the damn documentation from their web site. Our accounting system and online store ties-into the system via both the C and PHP libraries. Changing the interface to the credit card system is going to cost us a lot of time and money.

        Hmmm, I remember RedHat pulling that. The company I w

    • Re:Lightscape (Score:2, Interesting)

      by multriha ( 206019 )
      So you contact Autodesk and demand the promised support or a full refund of the purchase price. They took on Lightscape's financial and contractual obligations when they purchased them.

      Of course, it'll probably take you more in time/lawyer fees to own up to it.

  • This isn't very hard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by billh ( 85947 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @10:06PM (#12562720)
    If you lost the keys to your car, and the dealer wouldn't give you a new key, would you have a problem getting the locks changed?

    Get on the net and find a serial number. There is nothing wrong with this. I've done this many times, legally, including with Fortune 50 companies. Paperwork gets misplaced.

    As for this company, why don't you tell us who they are, so we don't buy anything from them?

    Fuck, Ask Slashdot has gotten stupid.

  • BSA to the rescue (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jayrtfm ( 148260 ) <jslash AT sophont DOT com> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:25PM (#12563184) Homepage Journal
    If the software company is a member of the Business Software Alliance you may be in luck.
    Having suffered through the begginings of a BSA audit, one thing they made clear to us was that having the disks/serial numbers wasn't relivant, it was proof of purchase that gave us a legal copy of the software.
    So, since you do have that proof, according to the BSA you have a legal right to the software.
    Your lawyer should be able to have lots of fun with this.

  • IANAL but I've always heard the Licensing agreement legally refered to as a contract between two parties. If you have held up your end of the contract then it is very reasonable for the company to give you new keys.

    All that said, it is reasonable to charge the user some sort of small penalty fee.

    Hope this gives you leads to do other, more accurate, research than asking /.. Sheesh. :)

  • Key recovery (Score:5, Informative)

    by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday May 18, 2005 @06:01AM (#12564582) Homepage Journal
    I work for a computer repair shop, and we sometimes need to recover keys from machines to do a re-install. Usually, we ask to see the original licence, but in cases where we have seen the licence but it is no longer available (urgent job, client can't bring us the bit of paper, licences destroyed in fire, stolen etc) we try to recover them from the machine.

    One of the best tools for this is AIDA32ee (Enterprise Edition). It's free, and will display the licence codes for a number of programs including Windows, MS Office, Works etc. The only problem is you have to be able to boot the system to run it. Windows licences can be recovered from a hard drive by reading in the registry.

    Moral of the story: back up your paper licences!

  • Let the market do its thing. If the vendor has burned you, find another one.

  • A small company with support offerings such as these sounds like an amateur outfit.

    I'd bet the keys are visible inside the binaries. Have you run strings on the binaries or DLL's? Disassemble the binary, find the entry point to the key verification routine, patch it to always return true. Hire a local college comp engineering student to help you with this.

    If you have proof of purchase all this is perfectly legal. Make sure you also impose a new corporate purchase policy that requires the keys to be in
  • Okay so my little brother has been playing CounterStrike on his XBox and wants to try installing it on a PC -- great, I say, I just happen to have a HalfLife CD w/ key from the good old days lying around. So after I install it I try and get this Steam thing going to patch HL so I can install the latest CS mod. Turns out at some point in the distant past I created a Steam account and associated my key with it, but now I don't even remember the email address I used, never mind the username and password. Accor

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