Threshold for Piracy? 88
bigwayne writes "A continuing source of internal discussion, among the organizers of Zion LAN, is the topic of how strict we are to be concerning software piracy. It just seems common sense that a LAN party would be a perfect place to share music, software, movies, and do other reprehensible acts. However there isn't much, outside discouraging the act itself, that we can do to actually stop these things. One strong argument is that the legitimately obtained software we provide shares the same distribution method that the illegally obtained software does, and I wonder if this creates a double-standard far outside of any legal situation it creates. Another part of this also concerns our particular situation (our LAN is being hosted by a non-profit charitable organization), in that we'd be ethically remiss if we sat idly by and let such things happen, unmitigated. So, where do we stop passively caring about piracy, and when do we start cracking down? Are the circumstances of a LAN party such that trying to stop it is overambitious?"
Easy (Score:2, Insightful)
Request that anyone who does not wish to adhere to "no piracy" rules to not attend the event.
If they insist on attending and engaging in copyright infringement, round them up and politely escort them off the premises.
Or...... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the BSA or RIAA or MPAA comes a knockin', send them packing.
If the police decide to make themselves known, tell them that you're not responsible (as posted) and that copyright infringement is a civil (not criminal) matter.
You're not these people's parents, IANAL but you don't have squat to worry about.
If anyone complains, escort them off the premises. Worry more about your building's insurance policy than about being the thought police.
Have some faith (Score:4, Insightful)
Other than that , dont treat people like criminals
They may do it , they may not , but if you start putting in checks your going to make it a rather unplesant experiance for people
Re:Have some faith (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Have some faith (Score:2)
Personally, I would suggest that the people running the event talk with a lawyer that practices copyright law and is licensed in the appropriate jurisdiction.
The important thing, I think, is to avoid liability. Personally I don't think that there is a real moral or ethical dimension to copyright, and I'd be careful of trying to find and follow on
Re:Silly (Score:1)
Some of us are in the same boat as the people we're supposed to be stopping, in that we we're as guilty of downloading as the rest of the world. However, the reflection this would give on the company hosting this doesn't put them in a good light, and that's who we have to think about too, as well as putting on a good show
We're not "warez nazis", but we need to keep it legal. I also fail to see how calling this a bad question helps us resolve the situati
Re:Silly (Score:1)
You obviously have never worked in a company with "values", and even more obviously dont understand charitable not-for-profit organizations. Charities first off exist BECAUSE people care. There is NO money in what most of these companies do - they do it out of the "goodness" of their hearts - is that so hard to comprehend?
Second, even though we've established you know nothing about charities, if you MUST stick with your twisted view that no one
Put a sign up... (Score:2)
Invite the RIAA, MPAA, and the BSA (Score:2, Interesting)
They either show up or they don't.
If they do, you've basically ensured that any copyright infringement will be taken care of.
If they don't, you've invited the people who care about copyright infringement of their products, and fulfilled your duties in trying to prevent copyright infringement by telling participants not to do it.
That's the best solution to me. Don't monitor
Re:Invite the RIAA, MPAA, and the BSA (Score:5, Funny)
Alert! Unmonitored citizen group in sector 12! (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm trying to imagine how this will play out 10,20,50 years from now, when we all have wireless portable storage devices in our shirt buttons that automatically record anything and everything. Are we supposed to police every group of kids? Will there be a special Kopyright Kops that checks every get-together and sleepover? "All clear sir, unauthoriz
Re:Alert! Unmonitored citizen group in sector 12! (Score:2, Insightful)
As for the latter part, bittorrent wasnt created strictly for the purpose of copyright infringement either. For some reason that argument, while it has held so far, has created a huge commotion to say the least.
Sarry state of the world. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sorry state of the world. (Score:2)
Because there are people out there who have a legal claim to intangible things that can be copied perfectly hundreds of times without loss. Because they have a zero-tolerance policy against said copying, and would prefer to see otherwise innocent person lo
Multiplay lan games have a no file sharing policy (Score:2, Interesting)
They have a system that cans for network shares and locks the connection out of the network until it is disabled. If that share had any copyrighted material they might throw you out.
Saying that, just hand round CD's and DVD's. Or even USB2 HDD's. Theres way round it, inless they have a guard on every row.
Re:Multiplay lan games have a no file sharing poli (Score:1)
Re:Multiplay lan games have a no file sharing poli (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Multiplay lan games have a no file sharing poli (Score:1)
Making Software Piracy Irrelevant (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not referring to online copy protection, but in actual value-added content. For example, it's not always meaningful to pirate the client of a MMORPG, since the meat is in the subscription content. Similarly, the developer of a first-person shooter might offer server-based content -- maps and tournaments -- that's not available on the client side.
Most folks who copy media seem to do so casually; might this provide them an incentive to pick up a full copy, making the argument about end-user piracy moot?
_____
Epidemic Groove - A casual RTS/Action hybrid for Windows [dejobaan.com]
Re:Making Software Piracy Irrelevant (Score:2)
LAN party cds. (Score:4, Insightful)
When you buy a game, you could get an extra "LAN party" CD that can be passed around and copied however you want. It could install game clients that will function as long as one licensed installation is on the network. I'm sure the publisher would rather be selling a unique copy of the game to each player, but let's look at the reality of the situation:
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:3, Informative)
I also like the attitude of Epic Games; for UT2k3 and 2k4, it will let any number of people with the same CD Key play on a lan-only game, but a unique key is required to play over the internet.
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:2)
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:2)
Yet another use for VPNs...
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:3, Informative)
Blizzard used to do this, at least in the era of Starcraft. They called it a Spawn install [blizzard.com], and it was an installed copy that could only be used in network games against someone running the same CD which made this install.
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:2)
Of course, I never had much reason to copy their games, since I've never found a Bungie game that was worth the powder it takes to blow it to hell. Not Halo, not any of the Marathons, and certainly not Myth or it
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:2)
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:1)
Re:LAN party cds. (Score:2)
Zero Tolerance for Piracy! (Score:5, Funny)
Piracy is easy to recognize [un.org]:
Piracy consists of any of the following acts:
(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:
(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;
(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;
(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;
(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).
Remember, kids: Just say NO to violent crimes on or near the ocean!
Re:Zero Tolerance for Piracy! (Score:2)
Re:Zero Tolerance for Piracy! (Score:2)
(see A above)
Re:Zero Tolerance for Piracy! (Score:2)
Do what is ethical and moral for you (Score:1, Informative)
You know what is right and what is wrong, and the limits beyond which right turns into wrong. Honour your personal code, and that's all that matters.
Re:Do what is ethical and moral for you (Score:1)
Sometimes, while ideals are great, it helps to be realistic.
Balance (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, if there is rampant out in the open piracy, it will reflect poorly on your event and could even possibly open you up to some claims of liability.
At the same time, you're not the BSA or SPA either, it's not your job or responsibility to make sure that no one has any pirated software on their machine.
Basically, make it known that piracy is not allowed. Anyone caught engaging in the act of software piracy will be asked to leave. And then stick to it.
If someone's screaming "Hey I got Episode III, who wants to grab it?" you give him the boot.
If someone quietly lets a friend grab his copy of Episode III without bringing it to anyone else's attention, there's nothing you can do about it.
LK
Re:Balance (Score:2, Informative)
I'm actually relieved that you translated this so well, and you know what we're looking at here. Thanks
Re:Balance (Score:2)
We had the exact same concerns. We knew that piracy would occur, but it had to be something that was not encouraged.
LK
You do NOT the enforcement responsibility (Score:3, Interesting)
DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:2)
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
It can be evidence that you knew or should have known what you were doing wrong.
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
Searching out a lawyer to get specifics on the local laws is probably the best option.
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
Besides, intentionally ignoring these acts is apparently a solid legal position, based on how many ISPs (esp. NSPs) will not
Re:DO NOT ASK SLASHDOT (Score:1)
So on the witness stand. The plaintiff lawyer will be like. Did you know that people were exchanging warez? What did you do about it?
Then the defense will state, well I talked to a lawyer, he told me to do A,B,C and it would
Trusted Computing (Score:2)
Re:Trusted Computing (Score:2)
Re:Trusted Computing (Score:1)
In the case of Linux, TC will be in the control of the user, meant to improve overall security.
No, it'll be under the control of the ISP. If your ISP hasn't signed your computer's kernel, or if you're not running an antivirus program signed by the ISP, then the DHCP server won't give your computer a routable IP address. Alsee could probably tell you more about the "Trusted Network Connect" spec published by the Trusted Computing Group. Expect both your local cable company and your local telco to adopt t
Civil offence. (Score:2)
Content provider (Score:1)
Translation: (Score:1)
You call it piracy, you call it reprehensible, yet you turn to others' sanction for guidance? You are going to establish morality by plebiscite?
It's piracy, its illegal, its going on during your watch. Stop it.
Re:Translation: (Score:3, Insightful)
How? And why? When you're hanging out with your friends, do you body slam them if they try to exchange copyrighted material? Do you call the RIAA, MPAA, or BSA and report it? What do you do to stop copyright infringement on your watch? All I see is a holier-than-thou attitude with no suggestions (practical or impractical) to back it up.
Re:Translation: (Score:1)
-1, Logical Fallacy (Score:1)
If I was hosting a computer-related function, and my friends were swapping software, I'd ask them to leave.
What I do or do not do is irrelevant to the OP, and irrelevant to the morality of copying software.
Re:-1, Logical Fallacy (Score:2)
And you also probably act surprised when your Jesus Christ pose elicits resentment and no one comes to a second "computer-related function" you host.
Re:-1, Logical Fallacy (Score:2)
What I was trying to convey with my post (and I should ha
Re:Translation: (Score:1)
That's exactly the question. Is it our watch?
Re:Translation: (Score:1)
I was speaking of course from any corporate viewpoint. Things controversial and speculatively illegal can rarely be taken lightly when business politics are involved. This brings with it a near no-tolerance policy for said things, and this is where our dilemma appears, since we're working with people that are very near to the heart of the controversy. Also, I'm not asking for a vote, but viewpoints on others (namely gamers, opinionate
Re:Translation: (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be nice if you could offer an alternative to copying games. What happens if little Billy shows up, sees how awesome UT2004 is, and wants to play it, but he doesn't own a copy? The answer would be to get a few cases of popular games to sell to attendees.
If you're lucky, you could get a local or web retailer to sponsor the event by providing you with software to sell and donating the profits to the charity you've lined up. Even that doesn't work out, I bet some of your staff could help you ge
Don't ask, don't tell. (Score:4, Interesting)
How is this connected to software piracy at lan parties?
It is advice via analogy.
Do as the smart companies do with respect to drugs. Formulate a policy forbidding piracy, hand out a pamphlet of piracy boojums and then don't worry about it unless somone actively brings an act of piracy to your attention. You will have covered your ass, which is all any organization outside of the BSA and SPAA needs to do, and at the same time wasted as few of the precious non-profit resources on fighting someone else's battle.
Re:Don't ask, don't tell. (Score:1)
Good point about it being somebody elses battle, but if we do nothing about it, aren't we just helping the other side? We're in the battle no matter what, and we put ourselves there, but doing nothing is almost the same as advocating what one side
Re:Don't ask, don't tell. (Score:2)
If you do try to deter actively and you fail, then you're held liable for being complicit in the act by failing to prevent. Best for you to set a policy - then leave the users up to choose self-censorship. Then, if shit hits the fan, you will be safe. Altruistic ideals about actually making a d
Re:Don't ask, don't tell. (Score:2, Insightful)
Remember that the law in general has very little to do with ethics - ask anyone working for a Fortune500 company and they can tell you that "corporate ethics" are just CYA for lawsuits that might hurt the company and not about actually "doing the right thing."
For the most part, copyright is si
Again, don't ask, don't tell (Score:1)
Have an official policy of "no file sharing". Post it on your web site, release forms, whatever. Then stop. You've cleared yourself. Don't ask, don't tell. You aren't under any obligation to start acting as the MPAA/RIAA's gestapo.
Salvation from the DMCA (Score:2)
17 USC 512(k) Definitions -
(1) Service provider. -
(A) As used in subsection (a), the term "service provider" means an entity offering the transmission, routing, or providing of connections for digital online communic
Its impossible to stop it (Score:2)
Oh noes! teh piracy monster is going to eat me! (Score:2)
And voila! No headaches, no problems, no unhappy people.
On the other hand (Score:2)
Oh the irony.. (Score:2)
Baz
Re:Oh the irony.. (Score:1)
Re:Oh the irony.. (Score:1)
Lamers (Score:1)
I will say that at every large lan I've been to consisting of 500 to 1000 attendees, you find LESS people playing games. It's aggravating, just walk around and you'll see people searching every share in network neighborhood, the P2P of the day, and so on. You'll find lots o' empty game servers though!
The real gamers and people who want to play games will show up to a LAN despite anti-filesharing policies. Hell I think it would boost the
Common Carrier Status (Score:2)
That said...
Probably the best thing to do is go for "common carrier" status. Basically, you are provideing a transport mechanism for data, nothing more. This has it's pro's and con's.
Screw your rules (Score:2)
Dont like it? Then dont be surprised when i trash every machine in the building..
Attempt to restrict me, and see what it gets you.
Though id never visit one of those stupid gaming things so you and your dork friends are safe.
Just worry about the liability (Score:2)
I don't think you have any moral or ethical obligation toward piracy at all, beyond what the organization itself does. You are neither the copyright holder or a law-enforcement agency. It's not your job to keep attendees on the straight-and-narrow.
That being said, you will need to think about this from a liability standpoint. I suggest you consult a lawyer and get him or her to advise you on what sort of policy to set up with an eye on protecting your organization from liability. Since you're a cha
Piracy (Score:2)
Here in sweden there are lots of LAN parties where piracy is rampant and there are even official warez-ftp:s [s] provided by the crew, bigscreens with scrolling warez-ftp info, etc etc.. Its really nice and the visitors *love* it. (Piracy would not reflect badly on