Cross Skilling Across Multi-OS Platforms? 347
drtheman asks: "I have been working in the IT industry for the last 10 years, 7 of those as a UNIX system administrator. I have been noticing over the last year or two that companies are becoming very pedantic about specific skills that a UNIX sysadmin should have. Most troubling for myself is the so called multi-skilled UNIX/NT administrator.
It's a given that any seasoned UNIX admin should have *some* Windows knowledge, and cross skilling is something that shouldn't be balked at. However, after coming from large enterprise environments, where the UNIX boys do the UNIX stuff and the NT guys do the Windows stuff, I just find it a little troubling that if I don't adapt with certifications in these platforms I may become unemployable. Do other enterprise admins think that this is too much for us to take on, and companies are just expecting more bang for their buck these days? I can understand that these multi-skilled people are needed in the smaller shops, but I would like to know how it would work effectively in larger ones."
Cross-skilling is a must (Score:5, Interesting)
I myself am coming from the opposite direction (Microsoft guru, *nix acolyte), and from what I've seen, a decently cross-skilled admin can pretty much write their own ticket. I wouldn't go so far as to say that if you aren't cross-skilled, you will eventually be unemployable...there will always be work for an admin that's competent enough, especilly a Unix admin like yourself. But a cros-skilled admin brings much more to the table...not just for the obvious reason of being able to work on either platform, but because they can work on both platforms. The point I'm trying to get across here is that Unix/Microsoft interoperability is a big matzah ball in today's tech world, and an admin that can understand how Windows and Unix play together (and why they occasionally don't) will be valued much more...in essence, the cross-skilled tech is worth more than the sum of his parts.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:3, Insightful)
It gives you more responsibility, making it harder for companies to let you go. And more experience into your future resume.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:5, Informative)
I can't even go into much detail about it, but my dabbling in some (relatively) new tech, combined with attending a convention related to the industry that my company is in (not IT related), resulted in me being able to sit in meetings and say "why not just do such and such" and watch peoples jaws hit the floor. My ideas weren't brilliant, in fact they were painfully obvious. It's just that the IT guys didn't understand the industry well enough to see it, and the industry guys didn't understand IT well enough to see it. I've only been home from that convention for a week and there are already contracts being drawn up for my company to partner with some pretty heavy hitters to implement my ideas.
I don't say that to brag, believe me. I'm the type that will probably get so focused on the tech aspect that I get screwed on the business aspect. Nothing to brag about at all. I simply bring it up to point out the value of developing at least a working familiarity in as many different areas as possible.
You don't have to master everything you dabble in, but there is real value in being reasonably well versed in as many areas as possible. Never lose sight of the bigger picture.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:3, Interesting)
Presently, we are just doing Windows 2000/XP with SGI
Also (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, if you say "I don't do Windoze that's not my job, go away," you won't be very popular. Sure you aren't a Windows guy, however users don't really understand that. You are a computer guy, why won't you come fix their computer? If, however, you know enough about Windows to do basic systems tasks, you can help the Windows guy, go get the CEO setup with Powerpoint and such, and come out looking like a hero because you were able to fix things not directly your responsiblity.
I know if I were in a technical management position, I'd much prefer those with some skill, and more importantly willingness to work with all our various platforms. I'd rather not have a Linux guy that will only do Linux because if time comes I need 110% out of the crew I have for a problem on a different platform, he's not going to be any help.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:2)
You be writing your own ticket if you are COMPETENT in each area. If you excel in two or more areas, and are willing to accept risk, you can become an entrepreneur.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:2)
Please note: I was showing off my multi-lingual skills (ebonics) for any future employer out there. Thanks for noticing.
Re:Cross-skilling is a must (Score:3, Funny)
Keep in mind (Score:5, Insightful)
I honestly can say I don't have a certification in any regards, I have experience, and "I know people."
IMHO, 9 times out of 10, knowing somebody will get you farther than another bullet point on a resume
Re:Keep in mind (Score:2)
Yeah. If you're any good, don't spend time in class, spend time getting to know people! Put in some volunteer time at the local school. Hit the streets - get in touch with businesspeople through your local Chamber of Commerce.
Getting the good stuff, where they like you, appreciate you, and thank you as they hand you your check comes down to who you know.
The good stuff comes over dinner between two executi
Re:Keep in mind (Score:2)
Re:Keep in mind (Score:2)
1. Applying through HR gets nowhere.
2. Knowing someone on the inside gets me an interview, which usually results in my getting hired.
Re:Keep in mind (Score:3)
Opposite (Score:2)
Re:Opposite (Score:2)
Re:Opposite (Score:2)
Re:Being a Church admin (Score:2)
Description:
Penguin in the Pew clears up the confusion about the terms "free" and "open source", addresses the challenges of hardware compatibility, software interoperability, and whether a migration is really more expensive than an
Re:Opposite (Score:2)
I assumed by church, you ment more like Hope Lutheran Church [hopelutheran-clehts.com] (one of many) than the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada [elcic.ca], or The Church. Even for a large congregation, 90 sounds like a lot of computers.
Re:Opposite (Score:2)
I do agree that this is highly unusual for most churches.
Re:Opposite (Score:2, Funny)
-Ben
simple.. (Score:2)
well, it's only a theory, but I've had crazier ones.
Reduncancy (Score:2, Insightful)
No freakin kidding! (Score:3, Interesting)
One time I worked for a large enterprise, and they had these windows servers running transactions for all their customers. And (supprise) the servers would lock up under high load nearly every other day, which was extremely expensive because it could cause lines to back up in over 1000 stores and the company would be loo
Re:No freakin kidding! (Score:2)
this is why I keep windows on my machine (Score:2)
Abstract your knowledge (Score:3, Insightful)
Almost everything boils down to a matter of syntax
I realize this is the simplistic view, but it has helped me in my daily jump between Windows, MacOS X and various Unix platforms.
It is indeed a very simplistic view (Score:4, Insightful)
In case of Windows it actually boils down to being ready for most bizzare sh*t you cant even imagine.
Like installing buggy USB driver f*cking up DHCP client's ability to renew IP address. Or installing desktop skinning software causing Windows to start failing installation of virtual network adapters. Or that disabling (certain) personal firewall software actually not having a full effect on a traffic until the next reboot.
Truly entertaining stuff. Far more lively than just mastering command syntax
why find it troubling? (Score:2)
what happens if you only know unix and they switch completely to nt? what happens if you know unix and more nt than many of the nt specialists?
Re:why find it troubling? (Score:2)
you can send off for (you have to pay shipping
outside the states), namely
Essentials of Windows for UNIX Administrators [microsoft.com].
1 DVD is an evaluation Windows server 2003, the
other is a (pretty piss-poor to be honest) set
of docs describing methodologies for getting things
done under WIN32 and UNIX platforms.
There's another similar thing for UNIX developers
Essentials of Windows for UNIX developers [microsoft.com]
I found it just as poor, but better than nothing.
Put it in terms you can understand (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Put it in terms you can understand (Score:2, Funny)
XP Paladin? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Put it in terms you can understand (Score:3, Insightful)
Specializing yourself out of a job... (Score:2)
For example, I'm a network engineer, working on my CCIE. There aren't many places that need someone of a CCIE-level skillset to exclusively do networks.
Now, I also have considerable security, Windows, and Unix experience, which helps, a lot, but almost all of my experience in the last 4 years has been limited to routing and switching.
It really all depends on
Re:Specializing yourself out of a job... (Score:2)
I wish you good luck
Re:Specializing yourself out of a job... (Score:3, Interesting)
But they always lo
Re:Specializing yourself out of a job... (Score:2)
Actually, this isn't the problem at all. No one is really overspecialized - they happen to not understand that you don't get specialist wages for generalist work.
A common name for cross-skilled admins... (Score:3, Insightful)
I am always surprised how narrow minded UNIX-only admins are. The way to succeed in the IT Admin game is to be able handle the most hardware, platforms and operating systems. The more you learn, the more you earn. Your UNIX experience will pay off in Windows administration as most UNIX admins are used to "getting their hands dirty" whereas a lot of Windows admins I meet are "Next, OK, Apply, Cancel" kind of guys. Plus Windows is becoming more command line oriented (Thank God!).
Being cross-skilled is essential (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree, I went from UNIX/LINUX only to woking with Windows servers as well and I must say I'm rather glad of it. Expanding into Windows has made me more employable and having started out in the UNIX world made me a better professional than I would have been if I had taken the Microsoft certification route and then moved into UNIX. Having worked mostly with
Boys? Guys? (Score:4, Insightful)
Shouldn't we have to be MUCH MORE willing to accept that there are girls in IT? we start by accepting this fact, and being less and less "boy" centric, and many will come ;)
Re:Boys? Guys? (Score:3, Funny)
Statistical anomaly.
Yes, you must know (Score:2)
See, you'll have to troubleshoot a windows box once in a while. You need to be prepared for it. But don't worry! There are EXCELLENT technical articles at Microsoft at how to rescue data from your computer. Like using the Recovery console to restore a corrupted registry, fo
I've gotten jobs that way (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not certified in anything. I choose to actually know the subject than to have a pretty piece of paper. Besides, I have a colour printer for when they do care about pretty papers.
Re:I've gotten jobs that way (Score:2)
love is the solution (Score:2)
Cross skilling: yes, Windows: no (Score:3)
However, I've noticed that almost everyone I know in IT who knows jack about Windows has been made unhappy by that knowledge. Maybe I'm just to far out in enterprise land (where NOTHING important is EVER put on a Windows box), but Windows knowledge leads to having to address all of the stupid annoying issues Windows boxes sprout. I'd far rather spend my time architecting useful solutions to hard problems in the enterprise level stuff than have to fight with the Windows virus dejure (at least on the desktop, network level mitigation can be fun).
If you need to cross skill pick up some background in J2EE containers, or Oracle DBA skills, or go pick up a CCIE and learn somethings about the network. Not only do those add more earning power than Windows skills, but they don't make you want to slit your wrists.
(Proud to have had almost know Windows expertise since 1993
Yes to cross skilling.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Cross Skilled Programming (Score:2)
Most guys in our shop have one programming language and platform they work on and one or two vendor products.
My unit writes Java J2EE on Unix and Windows, VB.NET and C# apps, Still have some VB 6 apps to maintain, work on a product that is a derivative of VB. We admin several large server applications and do much of our own sys-adminning on each of the server boxes. And we
... my experience ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Where I've found that I've been able to demonstrate the most value is in those situations where we need to get something done on a platform that nobody on the team has used before. I don't have a whole lot of fear of alternate platforms -- their really just new learning opportunities. Sure, I have assumptions and preferences about what one can do better than another, but these become more educated opinions the more I have to work in alternative platform contexts. For example, I have to drive a continuous integration project for some development teams that use C# and .Net, when most of my experience has been with Sun Java and Web Services. I recognize that I don't know diddly about how to do the job under the new conditions, but I'll have more value (I hope (crosses fingers)) when I get to the end because of what the challenge will force me to learn.
As a rule, I'd say that being adaptable, and willing to accept the challenge of learning new stuff has been more important to me (and how I think I'm being valued) than being (and staying) the uber-733+ lord of one platform or technology. Then again, I also have a lot more resources to draw upon at the current job. At the last one, I'd have to buy the necessary books and learn it all on my own. Were I still there, I might think differently.
Hope it helps,
Cross-platform skillset is a must. (Score:2)
Besides, a lot of issues that pop up *are* cross platform issues, and instead of saying "Oh, that's because Windows sucks." you can say "Windows sucks at that, and here is why: ""
I'm working in a heavy OS X environment with a bunch of Solaris boxes,
It's a man-eat-man world out there. (Score:2)
Sys admins not as appreciated anymore (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm pretty much against unions, but maybe sys admins should have one...
What I've noticed in the past 5 years or so is that the average starting salary for a UNIX admins (and other highly skilled computer jobs) has dropped considerably... its disturbing. It is a HIGHLY skilled job that the wigs in large or small corporations just don't understand. It's not as if the market is flooded with employable sys admins, either.
I've never had a problem with NT... I think it is a fine server... but... (I don't know
The best things are ... (Score:2)
You don't really want to be running around swatting Windows viruses for userbase of say 1500 workstations. Hackproofing and in gene
Opportunity Cost (Score:3, Insightful)
It's never "one thing" (Score:2)
As a marketing wonk can tell you, (no, I'm not one) you're never looking for "one thing". You don't kill flies with shotguns. You should always be looking 2-3 years out and training for what you believe the job market will look like then. If you're not learning something in today's IT business, you're losing ground. Things change, and even more so than the actual skills you have,
Am I the only one... (Score:2)
I was all geared up to see how someone had stuffed Linux into a snowboard.
I know what you are talking about (Score:2)
Re:I know what you are talking about (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't complain (Score:2)
Generalization is synergistic :) (Score:2)
Dale Carnegie & Open Standards Interface Model (Score:3, Insightful)
That being said, there are a couple of key cross-platform skill sets that are invaluable in these types of heterogenous environments. The first and foremost skill set is people skills, of course. Being able to manage vendor call centers, sales personel, field service engineers, and so forth. Also, you gotta be able to deal with people, especially end users who you support. Unless you're in the IT industry and are writing code or maintaining trunk lines for a telcom, you're probably supporting the IT needs of some other industry, and therefore have end users. Those people are the ones who are going to make or break your career. If your end users love you, word will spread and you won't have any problems with your career. If not, look for another job. So, people skills are the number one skillset that can be taken from one operating system to another. I'd also recomend Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" as a good introductory book on how to handle people. Even if you think you're good with people, you might be surprised at some of the nuggets of wisdom that are hidden in there. (And for those of you with the typical knee-jerk response, the book is about overcoming manipulation, false pretences, and shallowness. It advocates sincere interest in other people, which you can't get from reading a book one time. So, do yourself a favor, and ignore the title. It's a somewhat unfortunate title for a fantastic book.)
From a tech perspective, you want to look at internetworking concepts. Specifically, the Open Standards Interface (OSI) Internetworking Model. Learn it and love it. It's the single most useful tool I've come across in understanding, implementing, and maintaining enterprise wide network-enabled applications (e.g. teleradiology, radiographic archiving & retrieval, electronic medical records, etc). It's good for everything from hospital systems, to grocery stores, to small offices, to factories, to anything else I can think of. If you learn the OSI Internetworking model, you can go just about anywhere. And yes, I'm talking about the 7 layer OSI model: Physical, Data, Network, Transportation, Session, Presentation, Application. Also, I would note that the OSI model can be used for much more than just ethernet and configuring network cards. The OSI model can also be used on sneakernet and be used to model physical sneakernet devices, such as video monitors, printers, scanners, speakers, and any other device that is connected to a bus and has some type of physical interface that is used to communicate information (e.g. audio waves, printed paper, video images, motion sensors, etc)... A true grasp of the OSI model can allow you to be troubleshooting Cisco switches in the morning, nuclear MRI scanners in the afternoon, and HDTV/THX home entertainment systems in the evening.
Anyhow, those two items, Dale's Book and the OSI Model, however, can provide you the cross-platform people skills and technical skills to work in nearly any environment you want.
Very dependent on shop size (Score:2)
In a mid-sized shop, I can see value in making sure that any available techie is competent enoug
*system* admin (Score:2)
I don't believe in becoming a specialised "unix" admin or a specialised "Windows" admin, because to be honest, *most* environments will require you to get involved with both.
However, given that, I'd much rather be a unix admin than a Windows admin - I pretty much started out with Unix services first, and it really does require that you know a lot more about how things actually *work* - a unix admin can usually stumble their way through
Just went through this (Score:2)
I am very strong on the other side of the fence and I have to say that I hated finding an opportunity that sounded perfect...and then finding that they wanted someone strong in X (not literally) that was a UNIX thing.
In the end I think there is a higher payoff in job satisfa
sys admins need *tons* of skills (Score:2)
From what I've seen on job boards, it's not especially unusually for companies to ask for more than 30 skills. Including some stuff you wouldn't ordinarilly associate with sys admin like: MVS, C++/Java.
Among many other things, I constantly see: CISCO, Citrix, Tivoli, Remedy, HTML, PHP, Perl, Apache, Samba, Veritas, OpenView, Oracle Financials, PeopleSoft, SAP, SQL-Server, VoIP, Exchange; and so much more - every job is completely different of course.
But if you can't live on the $35K a year they want to pa
Generalist or Specialist (Score:2)
Although we tend to take sides, NT or UNIX for example, there is a need for both a specialist and a generalist knowledge of all systems. And no human is smart enough to be both a generalist and a specialist. Many may claim it but in 25 years in this business I have never met nor heard of one person that can claim both. And those that do claim it are generally incompetent fools.
It also depends on where you want to take your career. Which in fact might be your best decision point. You don't see a gener
My worst case was (Score:2)
1st requirement.
Must know how to use and apply differential equations as they apply to system design.
2nd requirement.
Proceeded to list about 40 languages that I should bring examples of programs currently in use at other locations (written by me) in each these languages.
To top it off they were willing to go as high as 12.50 an hour de
What do you you want to do? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been working in IT, running big websites and webhosting for 11 years. I have also intereviewed dozens of candidates for various junior-, mid- and senior-level positions.
I've been a system administrator, programmer/analyst, tools developer, database administrator and senior-level security engineer. Soon I'll switch jobs again to application development (with some web stuff and operations thrown in). The fact is, what I've done has been driven by what I wanted to do--when you like doing something, you acquire deep and useful skills in it; if you acquire skills merely because you think they make you more valuable--well, hell, why do you want that job anyway?
I've never had an interest in working with Windows--the last time I used Windows was in 3.11 days. If I got myself a bunch of NT skills and some certifications, where's that going to get me? A job where I administer Windows? Write some Visual Basic scripts? No thanks.
There's a few things I hate when interviewing people for jobs, and people who have "checkbox" skills in subjects that don't interest them are one of them. You can always tell--they have experience or certifications working with a certain technology but no understanding of it--they can't "geek out" about it and learn intricacies if necessary.
Networking (the social kind, I mean) is huge, especially among people that can grasp your skill. All but one of my jobs have come from people I know (often former bosses) approaching me. When you work with stuff that you really like, that you can really understand deeply and use to deliver excellent work, you will shine like a star; and that star-power is what will get you jobs.
If you want to learn about and use Windows, then by all means do; and while you're at it, pick up a couple of certifications why not. But if you don't, no power in the world is going to make you good at it, or enjoy it; so the only consequence is possibly finding work that you're not good at and don't enjoy. Blech.
Cross Skilling imporves both skills. (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish cross-platform was enough! (Score:3, Interesting)
I grew up with PCs, did 6 years in college which was heavy on UNIX, supporting WfW 3.11 labs, Sun Workstations, and dumb terminals connecting to UNIX mainframes (as a lab support guy). Did a 6-month internship supporting WfWG and NT 3.5 at a *huge* industrial site. Worked 3 years supporting Win95/NT4 workstations and NT Server, SCO Server, and AIX at a shop of 50, where I got certified an MCSE in NT4. Worked five years at a large University, supporting primarily Redhat and Solaris at the senior-admin level, though a fair bit of AIX and IRIX, too.
You'd think I'd be able to name my price, but it ain't so! In *addition* to all this crap, companinies want all of the above, plus, an experienced DBA and a developer who speaks Java, SQL, and C++. Oh, and they want someone who's an expert in networking hardware.
I don't mind being a jack of all trades type of admin, but isn't there a point where one can be *too* diluted with skills?
I'm a "systems guy" through and through -- and a pretty damned good one, if I do say so myself. I *can* bang together the occasional bash/perl/sed/awk script to automate *systems* administration, but I'm no code jockey (and I really don't want to be one). I know enough about TCP/IP and routing to help dedicated network staff trouble-shoot network problems by way of ping, traceroute, and packet dumps, but I'm noenterprise-level network guru (and I don't want to be one).
I feel this person's pain, as I've been in the job market for a while. It seems comapanies -- of a surprisingly wide range of sizes -- want people that can do it all. AND... they don't seem to want to pay what just the senior-level admin skills in one platform alone are worth, never mind the programming and hardware networking expertise.
I mean, how many contractors expect people who are experts in plumbing, electrical, *and* HVAC to be the same person for hire? It's getting silly out there.
Cross Platform skills are king (Score:3, Informative)
So now I am Jr. Windows Admin/Network Admin/HP-UX admin making good money and more importantly enjoying what I do. Most importantly for the company I can talk Windows, network and big iron. I get a view of the whole IS infrastructure and have valuable input. I am also very hard to replace as they would need two or three people to do what I do.
The enterprise ain't the norm... (Score:4, Interesting)
After watching friends in the IT industry deal with difficult employment situations in Silicon Vally, I have to say that cross-functionality is a must. One friend in particular has been forced to accept positions at relatively small companies, and the people that run these places just don't understand, well, much of anything about computer infrastructure. One choice quote: "If the CEO isn't having any problems, he thinks that no one else is either." The same guy that thinks a four-hour per week IT consultant can keep their systems, network infrastructure and Windows boxen all running happily. Decisions are made more through egotistical and micromanagerial mechanisms rather than entrusting the computing environment to the ones knowledgeable enough to make those decisions.
So while the enterprise may have more vertical job functions, the smaller shops have a variety of needs dictated more by the (lack of) knowledge of the management than the real needs of the computing infrastructure. You should probably increase your employability by getting your MCSE, but at the same time be wary of those smaller shops. Without wanting to be a pessimist, I'd assume the worst if you're going to be the sole IT guy/gal, or even part of a team of three or less.
More likely (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More likely (Score:3, Interesting)
Competent/confident individuals should just appease the HR folks with yes/yes/yes/..., and then talk to a technical person at the next stage to see what the company is looking for, and if you are a good fit.
And those ratings of 1 to 5 are very subjective, and think of some of the idiots you've worked with
Re:More likely (Score:4, Insightful)
With security in DoD systems...we run into the ability of granual rights privs. Now, on Oracle systems on windows...we have to have an SA sit with us to log us in, and basically sit and read a book while we do simple things like apply the new quartely security updates, or new software.
A total waste of money. On the Unix/Linux systems, we can be given proper privs where we can do what we need to...even sudo or IAS systems...and not have to have an SA sit 'babysitting' us.
Sure..you need to know a bit about all OSes...but, if everyone pulls together in the server room...you can sway in many cases the PHB's to go for a working platform....something MEANT for the server environment.
Sure...win can be good for the desktop, but, we gotta all pull together in the server area to get a platform we can all work on easily.
Not true in small shops (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not true in small shops (Score:2, Interesting)
You hire an accountant and you hire a lawyer. If you hire one person to do both, eith the legal stuff will be done wrong, the accounting will be done wrong, or, most likely, both will be done wrong.
This is why they remain small businesses; because they can't rise above mediocrity.
Re:Not true in small shops (Score:3, Insightful)
Or maybe they just haven't fallen for the assumption that the only measure of success is size. Not every small business owner wants to become Rich DeVos (international MLM outfit) or Fred Meijer (regional grocery chain) or even Doug Kool (local car dealership). Some just want to be their own boss and provide a service to their customers. I wouldn't contemptuously dismiss that as "mediocrity"; I'd call it "perspective".
Re:More likely (Score:4, Insightful)
First, it gives the company more flexibility. If you need more NT or UNIX work done right now, you can shift people fluidly rather than having one team idle while the other is idle.
Second, it leads to more mature and coherent decision making. If you have separate UNIX and NT teams, they'll each come up with a completely different set of answers for everything (and usually compete, which is crazy for morale), so you'll end up running two separate environments, and thus two of everything, so IIS and Apache, Active Directory and LDAP, etc., with little to no integration. But if you hire people who understand both platforms, you can come up with a a unified strategy for the entire company, and make decisions based on technical issues rather than religion.
Re:More likely (Score:2)
If the UNIX teams know both UNIX and NT, chances are that they will be able to clearly discuss the issues with the NT teams and help develop effective solutions. Same with the other way (though this is more rare).
Note that it was none other than Honda that pioneered the cross-training craze. And it became a craze with good reason. I have worked in too many environments where people didn't know what other people's job entails, and t
certifications are a waste of money (Score:3, Insightful)
if you are working for a company worth working for, they will realize that certs are a never-ending 'upgrade path' that forces the company & potential employees to pay endless amounts of money for information that is non-hands o
Re:certifications are a waste of money (Score:2)
For instance, someone who got hired with a Win2K cert, and continues to maintain XP systems when they come along.. Why retake a cert when you're already doing your job right and have learned what you need on the job?
Seems wasteful. I can understand needing a cert to GET the job, but once you're in you shouldn't need to...
-Z
Re:certifications are a waste of money (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, we probably missed some good candidates here and there, but the CIO passed down the mandate when he came on board as a result of his prior company being staffed by "paper" CNEs who had never actually laid hands on a Netware server before walking in the door.
Now, I don't necessarily agree with that policy, but I bring it up for a couple of reasons
Re:certifications are a waste of money (Score:4, Interesting)
You, Sir are in the minority.
Most large companies have HR staff that think Excel is a programming language and that MCSE means something. (I work with many MCSEs - you need to force an admission out of the competent ones, but the useless ones all put it in their
If I sound bitter, I am. Not cuz I'm looking for work, but because I have to work with the results of a broken hiring process...
Re:More likely (Score:2)
Frus
Re:More likely (Score:3, Informative)
Manager A: "We want the candidate to know his limits within the department. That last guy had a Messiah complex and he was damn near useless".
Manager B: "Yeah, but we can't really say it that way. Hmmm... how else
Re:Cross skill HR requirments == economic drain (Score:2)
There's a flip side to this as well. I was once hired by an accounting firm who only asked if I could admin their DOS / Netware based network. I said "of course". I was to be an in-house network admin.
As it turns out, the actual job ended up being a consultant for them.
Re:Cross skill HR requirments == economic drain (Score:3, Insightful)
Google.
Safari.
If you know how to maximize them and you can do IT in general you are all set.
Re:Cross skill HR requirments == economic drain (Score:2)
I've admined some pretty serious Sun boxes in the past, but at my current position Linux on high end x86 equipment is the best fit. Still, I keep a few Solaris x86 boxes around performing minor services just to be able to list current Solaris versions on my resume.
Seems useless to me, but it makes a big difference with the HR dorks.
Re:Perhaps change paradigm? (Score:2)
Pedantic and paradigm have nothing to do with each other. Nothing. Not even close.
Neither word is a bad word, wrong word, or buzzword. Really. Paradigm is over-used, usually by people who have no idea what it really means or how it should be used, but oh well.
I use the word "pedantic" all the time. Usually to tell a co-worker to stop being so pedantic and correcting me if I overload a term or am slightly loose in how I refer to things (in the interest of just talking about th
Re:Perhaps change paradigm? (Score:2)
The same may likely be true of pedantic as a useful adjective. Pedantic can also have connotations which tend towards descriptors like "detail oriented". One person's "pedantic" can be another person's "insistence on correctness". Given how fast and loose people tend to be with meaning, thus increasing noise in comparison
Re:Perhaps change paradigm? (Score:2)
Hate to be pedantic here (but lets face it, its the point of slashdot comments), but neither "schema" nor "database" are Mysql, or Oracle, specific terms.
"formal rules" (Score:2)
Also, "pedantic" and "paradigm" are not similar in meaning.
As for the actual content of your post, you can be a seasoned administrator and not know the details of each OS. Or does you know how to run the ENIAC?
Re:.::. Build a Linux server @ Home .::. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd strongly recommend against that. Webmin is okay for certain things, but it's horribly broken on many distros. The bigger distros (SuSE, Mandrake, Red Hat/Fedora) provide their own tools for administration; use them. Otherwise, you're best off doing it manually if you actually want to learn how things work.
Re:Just say "No!" (Score:2)
Re:Deserves To Lose (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Deserves To Lose (Score:2)
On the contrary, NT's licensing and reliability keep your downtime up and your uptime down! It's just what you need to keep productivity under control. It makes your decision to outsource everything look better, because it makes your employees look worse.
outsourcing begins at home (Score:2)
You hit the nail on the head. Indian firms are hungry for work, many will work harder without complaint.
Same thing could happen at home -- some go-getter who's hungry for work, eager to do anything without complaint, ready to displace a less adaptable worker.
-kgj