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Businesses IT

End Of Days Compensation Packages? 80

Posted by Cliff from the loss-of-job-imminent dept.
Waiting for the Axe to Fall asks: "I work for a larger webhosting company that has plans to consolidate one of its west coast data centers with an east coast location which they already have in place. Forget that this is a bad idea in terms of geographical redundancy--it is going to happen. The company did inform all west coast employees about the move, roughly a year in advance. This was done Im sure to ease the shock and fear of loosing ones job. This affects a small group (8-9) of employees, all of whom are tied up in operations and the data center specifically. If you were in this situation (as one of the employees), what would you require/want/wish for in this retention plan? The benefits of staying with the company, until the end, must out weight the risk of being jobless; or is this not the path you would choose? Would you leave as soon as the announcement was made?"
"As employees, the group decided to go to management and request a 'retention plan' of sorts. This is a contract that outlines specific benefits to stay with the company through the move, and help getting the systems across the country without service interruption. The support of these few is a requirement, due to the vast array of legacy and non standard systems. The job could otherwise be done with consultants, however going this route would take substantially longer, and would be at a much greater cost to the company. So, it is truly in their best interests to have the staff that has managed these systems for the past 5-8 years stick it out."
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End Of Days Compensation Packages? More

End Of Days Compensation Packages?

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  • Keep your job! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ingolfke ( 515826 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @12:27AM (#14004963) Journal
    Because if your resume is as grammatically flawed as your post then you're going to be serving me fries w/ my Big Mac.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @12:31AM (#14004981)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Tell them that by staying you are running a larger (Score:5, Insightful)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @12:42AM (#14005044) Homepage Journal
    risk of being jobless when you come out of it. If you start looking right away then you will have a year to find a position, but of course you can't tell your future employer that you will be available in a year, they will just move on to the next person. So I would ask for at least 2-3 months pay as severance, and health insurance for at least 6 months after you finish the job. That would give you really 6 months to find a job(since you can start looking about 3 months before your start date) and who knows, maybe you could land a job right away and basically get an extra 3 months salary.

    • jobs are easy on the east coast (Score:5, Interesting)

      by willCode4Beer.com ( 783783 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @10:27AM (#14007592) Homepage Journal
      Note: I'm speaking from the perspective of a developer experienced on both coasts.

      I'm a J2EE dev who moved from Seattle to Florida for family reasons.
      At first I was a little worried about work since Florida isn't really known for IT. Technologically, it was like going backwards in time about 10 years.
      Once my resume hit the market, I got non-stop calls from headhunters. Most of the jobs here are for banks, insurance, and DoD. So, now I'm getting double my previous salary, full (better) benefits, and a much lower cost of living. I'm renting a large lake front house for about the same as my previous apartment.
      But, like all things, there is a down side.
      Rednecks, everywhere
      Good luck finding a bookstore (don't these people read?)
      I used to be the dev with upper-middle talent, now I'm the top talent
      Mass transit sucks. I used to read while commuting, now that time is lost driving
      Everything is a long drive

      If you are a developer, and you are willing to move east, ask your company for a 20% raise and moving expenses. Also, update your resume and put it on the market.
      Here is what is happening. Your comapany wants to move you because it will save them money. They are planning on canning you after completion. It won't happen. Good talent is so rare on the east coast that you'll be able to stay comfortably.
      An example of how hard it is to find good devs here:
      My company recently brought in a new girl for "front-end" work. She didn't know HTML (not even the basics), she didn't know how to program in "any" language. I sent her to do an online tutorial, and said to just use notepad and the browser. She came back with a problem dragging the file to the browser window. She was trying to drag "notepad" into the browser. This, for $45/hour ?!?! She managed to last a month before getting moved out. I last heard that she's working as a business analyst at an insurance company.

      Being employed on the east coast is not an issue. Whether or not you want to live and work here is.
      This is just the opinion of a developer.
      IT janitors, whoops, I mean system admins, program managers, etc... YMMV
      • I can confirm that the northeast is nearly as bad as the southeast. Last time I had to put my resume online, I was getting spammed by headhunters within a day.

        All you need is one good gem on your resume, to let everyone know that you're actually a developer, as opposed to someone limited to MSOffice macros and WYSIWYG web design software.

        Of course, you'll also likely end up using obselete technology in most places. *cough* VB6 *cough*
      • Since we can make regional assesments based on one person's limited experience, this post has confirmed that all people from the East coast are conceited assholes.
      • What in the world are you talking about? Your experiences may be true in the hill billy south, but DC, NYC and Washington aren't remotely like this.
      • Since when generalizations like these get modded up?

        First, i'll state the obvious to your clueless and idiot self, its your company stupid. If you have incompetent managers that can't hire the right persons, then its fully on them, not the "east coast". I mean, unless you are padding or making up the story, which competent person would hire someone as a programer, and a high salary, without any experience? Hey, it might even fall on you, on all the companies i've worked for, we've had peer interviews of can
        • I appears you are right about generalizations being a bad idea.
          A common generalization is most people in the north east are pretty thick skinned. Your offense at an old joke shows that some people there are actually very sensitive.
          Hmmm, its also interesting how you attack me more than the issues I raised (ahh, refreshing, lovely name calling, mmm, mmm, good).

          God knows I would rather be somewhere else.
          As for this company, well, I'm not going to defend them. I agree with the opinion of them. When I worked in
          • Well he said, "And thirdly, WTF is witht he IT janitors comment? Some of us 'IT janitors', have probably more developement experience, and are better qualified than you so call 'developers'".

            Didn't you bother to go to his website? I think it's obvious that he's the best developer the east coast has to offer.
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Since when generalizations like these get modded up?
          ...
          Generalizing on the "East coast", when so many research centers and universities are here, shows your level of inteligence.

          Grammar? Spelling? You're still employed? Q.E.D.
        • which competent person would hire someone as a programer, and a high salary, without any experience?
          That's a circular argument; a competent person by definition wouldn't. Managers, however, are a breed apart [thedailywtf.com].
    • Well said! If the company isn't showing loyalty to you, why should you show loyalty to them? You'd just be used selfishly. Think of this if you have problems with consciousness when quitting for another job. Compensation from the employer would benefit both, the employee gets some security for the future and the employer can be sure that work is well done until the end.
  • my sister and her husband moved from west to east for a company making silly decisions like this. 3 horrible years later... he is working elsewhere (for a much larger company) making a lot more money. they both say that if they could do it again, they wouldn't.
  • do what this guy [big-boys.com] did.

  • I believe... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ingolfke ( 515826 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @12:57AM (#14005136) Journal
    that your "End of Days Compensation Package" is largely determined by your religious beliefs, your compliance to the requirements of those beliefs, and whether or not those religious beliefs are actually backed up by a real God/gods/force/FSM/great nothingness/etc. But I guess you were just talking about losing your job.

    • In the end everyone is dead. So far living to 100 is rare, and there are no verified cases of anyone living to 150. (Your religion may list some who have in the past, and other rumors exists). It is unlikely that medical science will make your immortal in your lifetime. You can freeze your body, but why would the next generation unfreeze your body and restore you to life - if they even can?

      So you need to keep perspective. Find the right religion, and serve it correctly (assuming one exists), and ca

  • Cover your COBRA (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pyromage ( 19360 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:10AM (#14005195) Homepage
    Under the COBRA laws, you can continue your health care under your employer's group plan by covering the premiums yourself - that is, you have the right to pick up your employers portion of the bill, so that you can have continuing coverage.

    I'd suggest that you get them to cover their end of things for a long period after the end, along with other benefits, in addition to whatever else you want. It may ease your transition somewhat.

    Also, a personal appeal to your manager may be in order for help lining up jobs. Be polite and helpful, no matter what you decide, because they feel obligated to help, and you don't want to be the last one in line.
    • Mod Parent up. Alot of folks miss this little detail when they are dealing with End of Days. And trust me, the stress of being laid off is higher than what you are dealing with on a day to day basis, might cause a medicial issue down the road.

  • How About (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doug Dante ( 22218 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:15AM (#14005218)
    Standard Severance - 4 weeks + 1 week/year of service, sometimes capped at 5 years of service. (This varies. Well placed executives may get years of severance, and store clerks may get none)

    A "Stay to the Bitter End" Bonus - Approximately an additional 4 weeks of salary or $10,000 for those who stay until the very last day they are needed.

    Immediate release from all restrictions in your employee agreement with regards to working for competitors.

    Verification that the conditions of your termination will allow you to collect unemployement.

    Find a new job now. Tell the hiring managers that your bonuses will keep you at your current position until the closing date. Don't fret about taking an hour here or there to interview; it's expected. Besides, they're already going to let you go soon. They need you and they're not going to fire you. It's time for you to start thinking about greener pastures.

    Later, if they hire you back (and it may happen), offer to do so for a 25% raise, but settle for no less than 10%. If you don't have a new job, don't let them know about it. Your new "consulting" position prevents you from speaking about it.
    • Sometimes if the employer isn't willing to shell out the cash, there are other things which they can offer that might be of value. A few years back I asked for (and got) my desktop PC and a nice monitor as part of my agreement to stick things out until a project was completed. You can also ask about training, if there are updates that you need to make before hitting the job market.

  • WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by binaryspiral ( 784263 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:32AM (#14005308)
    If the employees had to go to management to draft this retention plan - then management doesn't care about them in the first place.

    This is a calculated slash and consolidate move - it's obvious they're trying to fatten the bottom line. No blame there. But you got to take care of yourself - look for another job now... and see if you can time it with the end of your current.

    I was able to adjust my start date on a new job so I could finish up a major project in my old job and leave it in good hands. I didn't want to fark my old employeer, nor the good people I worked with, just because I decided the owner was a tool.

    The company I work with now thought that it was commendable and appreciated the effort. Probably in hopes I do the same for them given I would be moving on down the road.

    Short of it - find work for you, not work for now.

  • The important thing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:41AM (#14005341) Homepage
    Regardless of the comp package, start networking the hell out of your soon-to-ex coworkers. Get names, phone-numbers, be the keeper of the list, organize pub-nights and get-togethers. When they find work elsewhere (or even start their own business) who are they going to remember and call? You, the organizing gatekeeper that you'll be positioned to be. In these situations, social schmooze power wins.

  • Lets be fair here (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AuMatar ( 183847 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:51AM (#14005378)
    They're telling you a year in advance- thats plenty of time to find a new job. They're doing the right thing, don't fuck them over by going in and saying give us this or we leave.

    HP recently had severance that I took advantage of. 2 months +2 weeks per year of service, 5 months minimum 14 month maximum. I thought that was quite fair.

    As for leaving- if they offer you severance, I'd stay until the end date, but start looking for a job before it ends. If they don't, look immediately. Also, if they offer severance, take a vacation between jobs. Its well worth it.

  • No offence, but take what you can grab. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:24AM (#14005518) Homepage
    Estimate how long it will take you to find another job. If you're the optimistic type, double it to get to a real number. Have them cover the difference between your salary and unemployment for that length of time. Have them continue to cover your medical insurance for that length of time. Hopefully you've got other severance coming your way too... just remember that certain severance packages require them to let you go.

    Otherwise, look for another job today. They're laying you off, man. There is no fanfare, they're not crying a river. You're not keeping the red stapler. The company's life will go on. Mainstream corporations, even moderate sized ones, can be quite soul less.

    On the other hand, if you stick around, you can pick up a whole lot of supplies. Need about a dozen monitors?

  • What Happens when the Writing is on the Wall (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Millard Fillmore ( 197731 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:33AM (#14005551) Homepage Journal
    Let me describe what happens when you stick around in a doomed office/company/branch/whatever. Morale gets low, standards of professionalism relax. No one will expect anything from you except to show up, maybe occasionally answer a question or reboot a failing host. You'll start coming to work in sweatpants, playing solitaire all day long, taking two hour lunches. You dream up ways to spend your severance package.

    Sounds like a lot of IT workers' dream job, right? But the general attitude is not a good one. You can forget about being motivated to find a new job. A couple of months of coming in to play solitaire, and you're barely motivated to get up to take the two hour lunch. The most common topics of conversation are how many days are left and wouldn't it be nice to be the one guy that gets to keep his job. No new projects to add to your resume. If you're lucky, you get to list "decommissioning" as something you did at this job. What an accomplishment. It takes five thoughtless seconds to power down a server running the product of ten years' loving work. If that's what you want out of your final months with your employer, then read no further.

    But if you want to use this time postively, here's my advice. Get your resume together and start interviewing ASAP. See if you can get your current employer to give you a paper promotion now - it may help you get a foot in the door at other firms to have a more important-sounding title. Tell any company that makes you an offer about the severance package, to see if they'll match it, or at least give you something as a signing bonus. Even if you don't get the bonus, if you like the new place, go. Now. If the prospects outside look slim, talk to the dreaded East Coast management team. Find out if there are any opportunities for you to go out there. If nothing else, showing initiative in that way may get them to throw you some additional work, or a leadership role in the decommissioning. The key is to stay motivated, stay focused. Delete the games from your PC. If there are people in your group who are going to stay with the company, talk to them, find out what new projects are going on, if there's anything you can do to help.

    Above all, don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that because you're on the chopping block, you're not worth anything. That's what all those negative behaviors I mentioned before are all about. "They think I suck, they don't expect anything out of me, so I'm going to suck, and I'm not going to do anything." If you get trapped into that cycle, it may take longer for you to recover than your severance package can carry you. Just don't fall into the trap.

    So, to sum up, do what you need to do to stay motivated and enthusiastic. If decommissioning projects are what you love, stay, and be happy about it. Enjoy your severance. But if you need to have new and engaging projects to work on, I would advise you to get out as soon as you possibly can, severance or not.

    • I'll add to the above that you can either be IN CONTROL or OUT OF CONTROL. Guess which one is the loser?

      In Control:
      Actively manages one's career.
      Continuously learning and expanding skills.
      Takes initiative to find new projects/products to work on.
      When current job's growth potential has flat-lined, actively searches out next place that will provide growth opportunities (see line item #1)
      Out of Control:
      Let's others manage one's career.
      Rarely expands skill-set.
      Waits for others to tell one whi
    • This is really great advice
      The worst thing you can do is hang around in a de-moviated environment - yeah its great to slack off and take it easy. But unfortunately that attitude gets carried into your next job interview - therefore your next job will also be in an office that is de-moviated - get the picture?

      Actually de-moviated offices CAN provide opportunities! Always have a positive attitude in your de-moviated office and you will really shine - I myself got a promotion to a manager with a couple of de-

  • polish the resume. Pass it around to head-hunters. Go on some interviews. Prepare yourself for the worst. If possible dont work without a net. Create a situation where they need you more than you need them. After you've done that, your choice should be quite clear.

  • From past experience (Score:4, Informative)

    by malachid69 ( 306291 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @03:28AM (#14005763) Homepage
    Only one company I have worked for gave us a compensation package. They gave us 6 months notice and 3 months severance if we stayed through the last day. They also encouraged us to use company time to look for a new job. Not only did this give us the impression that they were not just hosing us, but it also helped ease the income-shock associated with the extremely unpredictable duration of unemployment. Every single employee (about 12) stayed until the last day.
    • I worked for a Tier 1 ISP/webhost. and when they started having rounds of layoffs after the bubble burst, I was round 3 or 4. I was given 3 months' notice, (extended to 4) and because of the length of the time I'd been with the company, offered about 6 months' severance to stay until my RIF date. Not only that, but they paid for us to attend some classes on social networking and resume building, etc. I got the idea they really, really were being generous to us, especially since I'd seen friends at other ISP
  • Negotiate what ever bonuses, extra cash, severance package you can today.

    Start looking for a full time job tomorrow.

    When you find one - tell them that your company has said that on (X) day they will give you what you got above, and if the new company can give you anything to get you to leave earlier.

    There is also the incentive that for a cool, new, full time job - you will just not even bother with the above step, and leave right away. That is the risk that the company takes negotiating a low severan

  • Start a company (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Flying pig ( 925874 )
    Have you between you got the expertise to start your own company? Are there any competitors in the area who might be interested in acquiring the entire staff of a data center?

    Unless you know for a fact that you are in an area with a skills shortage, never stay to the end. It will always say on your CV "lacked the imagination and skills to do something else", and if a future employer is looking for people with a highly developed sense of loyalty - is that really your kind of employer?

    Confession - I have only

  • I guess that loosing a job is better than havening [nanc.com] a job...

    right?
  • C'mon, you have a year to plan either to move with them or find something else. We should all be so lucky.
  • I have a similar issue: My workplace is going to close in the next few years, as it is slated for closure on the BRAC (base realignment and closure) list. All operations are moving to another state about 5 hours away. I'm not staying, but then, I'll also be spending the next few years with a decent stipend working on a Ph. D. I'd probably still look for another job if I had no other source of income, though.

  • You're very lucky you got a year's notice. Take advantage of that to find your new position with lots of time to spare. If you find one before the year's up, leave. They clearly don't care about your future, stop caring about thiers. The only time compensation packages are really appropriate or neccesary is in the case of layoffs without much notice (say, less than 3 months notice). No reasonable compensation package from your company is going to make up for sticking it out to the end. You're much bet

  • Basically... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Shads ( 4567 ) <shadusNO@SPAMshadus.org> on Friday November 11, 2005 @10:25AM (#14007583) Homepage Journal
    ... I've been in this boat, I'd suggest these things if you're serious about keeping the employees until the job is done:

    1.) Give them a pay raise for their remaining time - This will help ensure they won't randomly bail for a higher paying job.
    2.) Pay out all remaining sickdays, vacation days they have left at end of period at 1.5x normal rate. - This gives them a reason to *NOT* use their vacation/sickdays.
    3.) Severance bonus equal to 3 months of pay. - This gives them a "good" ammount of time to look for another job without having to take something that will cut them off from working for you.
    4.) Buy them on the job lunch, dinner on a set day reguarly. - It's a good moral booster for people so they know the company cares and is trying.
    5.) Give them written recommendations for their next job that is *GLOWING*. - Once the job is done, write a custom, glowing review of them so it's easier for them to get their next job... if anyone calls, tell them how it was, that these guys were the best of the best and stuck it out till the dead last for the benefit of the company and customer and how much you appreciated their dedication.
    6.) If possible offer them the ability to move to the new datacenter in a similar or upgraded compacity, with paid move and assistance finding a home/appartment.

    Is this a cheap route? No. If you're serious though this is the *right* route. I've had pretty much exactly this shy the offer to move (it was a department closure, we were redundant after a buyout and they were already over staffed.) Everyone of us worked till last day, all of us moved on to better paying jobs, and the all of the things that were done made this possible. Everyone was sad about leaving, it was alot of fun the last few months, even though there was a melloncoly overtone.
  • Instead of asking for salary increases and bonuses and such during the next 12 months, how about asking them to guarentee that you'll be able to pay the bills in the following 12:

    Figure out how much it costs to live at your current standard of living, not counting saving for retirement, vacations, and other luxuries.

    Insist that they pay this amount every month for 12 months after termination, less any bonuses or additional compensation they give you in the meantime, and less any income other members of your
  • Keep the job! Duh!

    The convenience of having a paycheck while you're job hunting outweighs the convenience of scheduling interviews on an empty schedule.

    Besides, you now get to tell your boss you're using a vacation day to go job hunting, and not feel embarassed by it!
  • I have been in simular situation. Like many of the previous posts went thorugh the same thing. Unless you have a huge package and planning on changing careers, it is not worth it.
  • Once you are no longer working there, i.e, they no longer need you, they have much less incentive to actually honor any obligations to you. Assume that you will only actually get what you get before your last day there and nothing afterwards, regardless of any promises, contracts, etc., and negotiate accordingly.

    I don't know whether these people are honorable but they're obviously stupid enough to think that the lesson of InterNIC isn't "geographical redundancy good" but "it's better to be lucky than to

  • "well, I've been nursing some decaying infrastructure for the past 12 months until they finally shut it all down, then I sat on my ass for 4 months living off the severance and unemployment. Yep, good times, good times. But now my money and insurance have run out, so I really need a job..."

    I can't think of a better story to tell prospective employers after your undying loyalty to the current organization is rewarded by being kicked to the curb. I know when I'm hiring quality staff, thats exactly the so

  • My (prior) firm had the same thing happen. Difference was, they DIDN'T tell us - we found out because one employee had a high-level friend who worked in another firm in the same industry, who heard on the golf course about the impending closure FROM A MEMBER OF OUR MANAGEMENT. My firm was planning on waiting until the last minute to tell employees so we wouldn't leave, then just toss us. When the rumor got back, the source had enough credibility that we checked with 'head office' who hemmed, hawed and then

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