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Programming IT Technology

Relocating an Entire Software Engineering Team? 44

Posted by Cliff from the mgmt-may-be-temporary-but-coders-are-forever dept.
An anonymous reader asks: "I was recently laid off, along with the entire Vancouver Development Centre, from a large network security company. The software engineering team at our office has performed well and is highly cohesive. I was wondering if anyone at Slashdot has been in a similar situation and the probability/prospects of being able to start a new venture with the existing team. I'm sure most understand the importance of a good team, and the time it takes to grow one. Is it worthwhile for the core team to pursue a new venture or should we all just disband and go our separate ways? Where might we find someone with the entrepreneurial mindset to take advantage of this great resource?"
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Relocating an Entire Software Engineering Team? More

Relocating an Entire Software Engineering Team?

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  • sounds a lot like my company... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by blackcoot ( 124938 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:26PM (#14267514)
    ... which was founded by a bunch of SAICers. several former object video employees ended up joining shortly after the company was founded because OV had closed its denver offices and was about to lay them off. so far, it's turned out to be a really good thing for all involved (except object video, whom we now compete with).

    the only advice i can offer is make sure you're careful about the non-competes and ndas. other than that, it can end up working out well (as it has for folks in my company).

  • You can start new. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vil3nr0b ( 930195 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:26PM (#14267517)
    Myself and two friends left an IT solutions company after being laid off. We all got on somewhere else and interviewed together. We had enough skills on the table between the three of us to convince the employer we could do the job of six-ten people. (Which is what companies want first and foremost.) Now all three of us just got huge raises and a solid contract guaranteeing employment. After ten years in IT, we are finally appreciated.

  • Try yourself (Score:5, Interesting)

    by New Breeze ( 31019 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:26PM (#14267518) Homepage
    You're unlikely to find some kindhearted individual/company ready to take on an entire group of people with their associated costs.

    However, I would suggest that if they've been saving a bit and aren't living paycheck to paycheck, starting a consulting company and chipping in to hire a sales/marketing person might be a viable alternative. Especially if the team has contacts with customers that could be persuaded to stay with the people they know, instead of your old company.

    As always, consult a lawyer before doing anything, and if you signed away your soul in your employment agreement, be careful...

  • Dont DISBAND (Score:5, Funny)

    by mnmn ( 145599 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:27PM (#14267529) Homepage
    Take a Trireme and sail off to a new island. Take a settler. Press B and start out new.
    Disband only if youre in a Democracy and the unit is weighing you down, or if its a very old unit.
  • Unfortunately, I don't have much in the way of solid advice for you, but I do want to wish you and all of your (former? current?) teammates the best of luck.

    I was laid off back in 2002 in the wake of 9/11 along with a lot of other airline IT folks, and it took a while, but most of us are finally back in the workforce again. A layoff sucks quite a bit, but sometimes the end result is better than where you were. :-)

    Again, good luck...
    • Not sure I'd consider Atlanta to be a better place to be though, even if you were in Minnesota before :-)

      I rejoined the Airline IT industry last summer, but it ain't going to last forever and a lot of stuff has already been outsourced to India.

  • Is there a non-compete? (Score:4, Funny)

    by stuffduff ( 681819 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:30PM (#14267555) Journal
    If there is you're pretty well (insert explicative). On the other hand, if there is not one I'suggest starting to call some of those customers and see how happy they are with the service being provided by the new, smaller, (and hopefully less responsive) old company. Determine from an economic standpoint what you can realistically afford to charge to cover your expenses and get back on the horse that threw you. My guess is that you can afford as a startup to charge significantly less than the old company did since you're not having to inflate your budget to cover the cost of bigwigs who needed to cut expenses to cover their bonuses in the first place. It's happened before.
    • I'd check with a lawyer before giving up even if there is a non-compete. At least in my juristiction, a non compete does not override your right to seek employment. So if you are an IT geek and the only option for getting an IT geek job is to compete with your former employer, then they have no case against you. It comes more in when you jump ship and go work for Major Competator across the street (taking clients with you) when you could also have gone to work for Unrelated Company across town.

  • The Company is (Score:4, Informative)

    by Rac3r5 ( 804639 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:34PM (#14267593)
    This security firm is RSA.
    A friend of mine works there. They have closed their downtown Vancouver branch and are moving operations to to HQ an India.

    He seems to be taking it pretty well, but I feel bad for him since he just started working there a couple of months ago, I think 6 months ago.. and he just graduated last year.
    • Sounds almost like what Earthlink did. They've closed all their call centers and gone to india and god knows where else. Even the trainers who tried to stay on the good side of the company got let go. Now, all thats left is a management team in one lonely building.

      Sure, its a US company, technically speaking, but 99% of it is outsourced and offshore.

      Anyway, I was let go and suffered through 7 months of unemployment, lost 90% of what I owned and still have debt being paid off. Best of luck to ANYONE thats la
      • sorry to hear that dude... hope ur doing ok now. My friend is lives with his parents so he should be ok.

        But it seems the luster of an office job in N.America is going away. Now its all about the unions and trade jobs.
      • Sure, its a US company, technically speaking, but 99% of it is outsourced and offshore.
        Didn't braindead US encrpytion export laws make it 99% offshore? Banks really like to be able to encypt their data for overseas currency transactions, but they were unable to use a US product to do so due to export restrictions.
        • Nope...

          They did a study on costs for all departments. They found out that a phone call cost them about $14, a Live Chat Session cost $9 and an email cost $4 (These are approx figures that I'm remembering). They figured that for the cost of email, they could field phone calls.

          MindSpring tried outsourcing, but started backing away from it when they had quality issues. They had only used outsourcing as an overflow option.

          When Earthlink merged in, upper management changed that idea. After losing money due to va

  • I've been in this same situation (Score:3, Insightful)

    by The Slashdolt ( 518657 ) on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:42PM (#14267648) Homepage
    I worked with a team of people who really worked well together. We were able to do some amazing things in very short amounts of time. We had a natural chemistry together. Sadly, the company was not very supportive of our efforts. Management figured that since we were all "high performers" we should be disbanded and put on other teams where we could bring other less than stellar teams up to our level. The frustration of moving from a talented and cohesive team to a team of underperformers was too much for many of us. In the end many people left to pursue other avenues. I myself now work for another company. We keep in touch with each other regularly. We are all hoping that in the near future a company will want to find such a team and we'll all work together again.

    • Instead of waiting why not start your own company?
    • A number of my current coworkers came from previous yet common ventures. It started with a guy that worked a college in the area. The college outsourced the IT dept to a local company who then hired most of the existing IT staff to fill the same roles at the college. The original group of guys worked great together. I've met almost all of them now and they seem like a helluva group of guys. That consulting company started to get seriously fscked at about that same time. That consulting company drove t

  • Which Vancouver? (Score:4, Informative)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@yahoGINSBERGo.com minus poet> on Thursday December 15, 2005 @05:49PM (#14267697) Homepage Journal
    Vancouver in Washington State or Vancouver, Canada? If Canada, Telus has crap engineers and might well be willing to pay to have people who know what they're doing, but dunno that for sure. If Vancouver WA, then Lightfleet [lightfleet.com] might well be interested - they're on the lookout for high-end developers and I can say for certain that it is going to be tough for them to find the level of skill they want. What's the worst that can happen if you ask?

  • really? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Let's say you were playing a 2-on-2 basketball game. Who would you prefer as a team mate: Michael Jordan or Rosanne Barr? That's a rhetorical question, but it's also the wrong question. Would Michael Jordan want you for a team mate?

    Are you sure there's no dead weight on your team (maybe even yourself)?

  • Some pointers from someone who's been there... (Score:5, Informative)

    by soren42 ( 700305 ) * <<moc.yak-nos> <ta> <j>> on Thursday December 15, 2005 @07:26PM (#14268452) Homepage Journal
    I would recommend that you take your team leader or manager (assuming he or she was laid off with you), and have them start shopping the team to competitors. Additionally, everyone should get a current resumé together, and begin looking independently. You can't limit your options to one or the other, especially if no one has the resources or interest to hire your entire team - likely given the economy.

    I will tell you this - several companies I've been involved with, including my current employer, have hired entire teams with skillsets we needed. I've seen displaced teams hired, and I've seen current teams recruited. Here are the important points in selling your team (in my opinion):

    • Focus on your synergies - Highlight the unique talents each team member brings to the table and your experience working together. Let a potential employer see you as a cohesive unit with the interdependencies, strengths, and (perhaps most importantly) weaknesses of individual members and sets of members as a part of the intrinsic value you offer. Discuss the team as a whole, time together similarities, differences, and relationships between the contributors.
    • Highlight team project successes - Remember, to sell yourselves as a unit, you need to focus on the accomplishments, projects, and successes you have all shared. Be certain to include anecdotes about customer satisfaction in prior projects and team efforts.
    • Get manager and customer endorsements - If possible, get a letter of recommendation from the team's previous manager or customer to share. Any teamwork recognition, service awards, or other artifacts of shared success will be beneficial.
    • Do a "group resumé" - Prepare a short (one to two page) glossy on the team, with a summary of skills, benefits, past experience, and core competencies on the front, and a brief bio (with headshot, education, and key experience before joining the team) for each member on the back.
    • Emphasize the value of hiring a team - This is perhaps the most important point. Most managers think they can do a damn good job of hiring a talented and cohesive team - you will need to explain why hiring a whole team is better. Focus on the value-add that bringing in a group of people who already work well together offers. This will be a huge challenge.
    • Use your relationships - Don't look for companies with open positions; no company is going to post jobs for a whole team (well, it's unlikely, at least). Leverage relationships you and your partners have with executives and senior leaders at competitors and former customers. You will need to have positions created for you - they won't be posted already. Your best bet is to look for companies seeking consulting engagements - they will need a team, and odds are they will need the skills of the team on an on-going basis. Hiring a consulting firm can simply be a way of getting a skilled team with the hassle of hiring the members of one - focus on the fact that you are offering them another (a better) option. Your team provides them greater control, and puts the accountability squarely on your shoulders.

    Most importantly, though, don't get your hopes up. Finding a job for one person can be difficult enough - placing a whole team is a huge challenge. Consider contacting a few recruiting firms for advice, but don't expect too much. Finally, get your own resumé together, get it out there, and if something really good comes along - take it. Don't hold out forever hoping to place the whole group and pass up opportunities to put food on your table.

    Please feel free to e-mail me if you'd like any further advice on this, or if you'd someone to review the "team resumé" I mentioned above. As a senior leader at Fortune 50 company, I have *some* hiring experience (wink!), and I've been on a team that was hired in together before. So, keep some hope - it does happen, rare though it might be.

    I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.
    • Yes, hello sir!

      I am a lone coder, stuck in the middle of europe looking for a telecommuting job, can you help? I can c0de like no tomorrow. I away your reply!

      Seriously though, its nice to see someone in any company offering advice like this. I would have never thought about a team resume, I would have stapled all of them together. Pretty bad for someone thats attempting a startup...

  • Do you need money? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What about asking to Y Combinator?
    http://ycombinator.com/ [ycombinator.com]

    I know they usually go with fresh graduated students but it never hurts to ask. I think they are better than a normal VC.
  • It's certainly doable.

    However, you need someone who understands business, sales, accounting, human resource management, etc.

    So unless you plan on donating your time to open-source projects, start shopping for an Entrepreneur, and bring a viable Killer App idea with you.
  • An RSA Conference will take place February 13-17 2006 in San Jose, CA.

    You could all live on unemployment and separation packages for two months, then pool your resources, and rent a booth. ;-)

  • FYI. Business Objects is hiring developers to work in their Yaletown office.

    http://businessobjects.com/company/careers/job_ope nings_canada.asp [businessobjects.com]

    Anyone else got any leads?

  • AJAX (Score:4, Funny)

    by JVert ( 578547 ) <corganbilly@hotmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Friday December 16, 2005 @02:24AM (#14270242) Journal
    Doesn't matter what it is, just build something around AJAX.
  • Years ago there was a report of an entire team, that also had been layed off, being placed at a new company by a headhunter, errr placement service. Regretably, I don't recall any details so I cannot cite a reference.

  • Assuming you're in Canada... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JediTrainer ( 314273 ) on Friday December 16, 2005 @09:45AM (#14271205)
    Start a Tim Horton's franchise? Surely there a corner somewhere that doesn't have one yet.

    My team has thought about doing it. At least, back when our company was in the rough and it looked possible that layoffs were coming.

  • I wish you luck.

    I survived Glenayre's implosion and mass layoffs in Vancouver in 2001, and now work for a company that we set up ourselves, initially to support one of Glenayre's old product lines, but also to grow the business in new directions. We're doing well, but not well enough (yet... :-) to hire anybody new. Certainly not an entire team.

    I know of one team who were able to move en masse, but they were very specialized, and still took a while (and several employers) to land on their feet. Others w

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