Defending Against Surveillance? 157
Extrudedaluminiu asks: "With the recent news about domestic spying by the NSA, American citizens are put in a very difficult situation. Citizens in other countries, around the globe, also find themselves in situations where their lives can be examined by government agencies or other groups of questionable ethics. What can people in this kind of world do to defend themselves? Are there any approaches to thwarting or mitigating surveillance that will work on a mass scale? What technologies can people use to hold on to their freedoms, in a difficult world?"
Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2, Informative)
Coat Hangers in the ceiling does nothing, nor does the tinfoil/aluminum foil hat.
Anyone else know any good ones that are just utter bunk?
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2, Interesting)
So if you can convince large numbers of people, if possible a majority, to continually perform acts which might flag systems like Echelon, eg. by continually generating and sending emails containing keywor
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:4, Insightful)
Appeal to Fear.
Well known logical fallacy.
You lose. Try again.
Other examples:
"You know, Professor Smith, I really need to get an A in this class. I'd like to stop by during your office hours later to discuss my grade. I'll be in your building anyways, visiting my father. He's your dean, by the way. I'll see you later."
"I don't think a Red Ryder BB rifle would make a good present for you. They are very dangerous and you'll put your eye out. Now, don't you agree that you should think of another gift idea?"
"You must believe that God exists. After all, if you do not accept the existence of God, then you will face the horrors of hell."
"You shouldn't say such things against multiculturalism! If the chair heard what you were saying, you would never receive tenure. So, you had just better learn to accept that it is simply wrong to speak out against it."
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2)
You've never seen A Christmas Story [imdb.com], have you?
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2)
That said, it doesn't always work. Those items specified above, almost certainly wouldn't work, because they lack many of the elements necessary to make a fear appeal successful.
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2)
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:2)
I, for one, would feel a great deal of anger at the individuals who committed the act. Which, coincidentally enough, is the same way I'd feel if it happened now.
Are tens of thousands of lives worth losing the right to make international calls freely with known terrorist networks (that is the limit of scope of the most recent NSA revelations).
Those tens of thousands of people are going to die one day, regardless... and a great many of them would probably say that they would rath
Re:Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, this used to work with early miniature transmitters. In an effort to keep them small, very little attention was paid to what undesirable RF was being thrown off by the device.
Re: Stuff That Doesn't Work (Score:4, Funny)
Sure they do. After spending a few hours watching you putting up the hangers and making the hat, they'll write you off as a kook and spend their time spying on someone else.
Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously people, technologies won't help you hold on to your freedoms. There's no silver bullet. You have to do it for yourselves!
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously people, technologies won't help you hold on to your freedoms. There's no silver bullet. You have to do it for yourselves!
What do you suggest if:
* - Our Senators & Representatives are bought off / unreachable.
* - Our voting machines are rigged and we're unable to vote them out of office.
* - While being monitored, we have no means of collaboration and organization to form a revolution.
* - Were a revolution organized, we have no weapons of any signifigance to mount an effective revolution.
You can disagree with me whether the first two are true or not; that's okay. This is a theoretical discussion which ultimately lands square on the third one. The fourth is provided for clarity.
~Rebecca
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:3, Interesting)
Run against them, or support someone to run against them.
* - Our voting machines are rigged and we're unable to vote them out of office.
File suit in federal district court. Election fraud causing more than the margin of error of a difference is provable in court, and worst comes to worst there's always the option of a recall election.
* - While being monitored, we have no means of collaboration and organization to form a revolution.
Your rev
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2)
* - Our Senators & Representatives are bought off / unreachable.
* - Our voting machines are rigged and we're unable to vote them out of office.
* - While being monitored, we have no means of collaboration and organization to form a revolution.
* - Were a revolution organized, we have no weapons of any signifigance to mount an effective revolution.
Commit murder-suicide on your family because there's no hope?
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2)
I suggest you do what Mahatma Gandhi [wikipedia.org] did in India.
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2)
Picket them. Force your way towards them.
Smash them.
Overwhelm the surveillance with bogus data.
Just do nothing at all. Brin
Revolutions don't need guns (Score:3, Interesting)
In 1979, largely unarmed civilians overthrew the government of Iran, which boasted the world's sixth largest armed forces and was led by Shah Reza Pahlevi, whose brutality toward dissidents was legend---he was torturing children to make their parents talk long before Saddam Hussein was.
The current regime in Iran is almost as bloodthirsty and evil as the Shah's but my point is not to defend them, just to p
Re:Revolutions don't need guns (Score:2)
There hasn't been a revolution worthy of the word since France, I think. And even that one might be a little bloodthirsty to some.
Revolutions without tyrants (Score:3, Informative)
Gandhi's revolution in India, Solidarity's revolution in Poland, the real Irish Revolution (the one that liberated Southern Ireland, not the terrorism in the North masquerading as a republican war of independence), Chile's revolution against colonialism in 1810-2.
One could also point to the Mexican revolution, but that was much more complicated and bloody although I would still argu
Re:Revolutions without tyrants (Score:2)
Chile might not count, we're talking right around the time I contended that the good ones ended, just to nitpick.
But India and Poland are both really recent, one even within my own lifetime.
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2, Insightful)
*- How do you convince a large enough percentage of the populace that freedom is worth dying for, and especially more than that new Celine Dion CD, and their SUV?
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:3, Insightful)
And what shall I do while I'm spending all of my free time trying to educate a population who is rather uninterested with invasions of privacy? How can I protect myself until enough elections pass to get a critical mass of responsible Congressmen elected?
What's wrong with me? What's wrong is that I realize that when push comes to shove, I have to be able to defend myself, no matter what idiot gets elected (unfortunately, I do not control the entire electorate... yet).
You can't just dismiss the questi
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2)
He could devote every waking second to getting them elected. He could donate his last red cent to the ACLU. Wouldn't do a bit of good. Not one.
I don't expect him to sacrifice his own life to that, either. It's too much to ask, knowing the outcome beforehand. Legal means might have worked up until recent history, but they no longer do. There's a point that if corruption creeps past it, all th
Re:Ballot boxes, envelopes, and postage (Score:2)
YMMV, but in my book guns and strong crypto count as "technologies", also quite suitable for defending one's personal freedon in the short run. In longer run, all other "technologies" which tend to make people more productive and richer/more self-sufficient generally work towards for protecting their freedoms as well.
There's no silver bullet.
I guess there are, but lead tend to be cheaper...
I am not sure myself if the original questio
I have the Answers! (Score:2)
No, it'd be too obvious (Score:3, Funny)
Tinfoil hats!
I couldn't resist...
being better citizens ? (Score:2, Informative)
Move to Canada. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
Like the recommendation [bbc.co.uk] by the former Ontario Attorney General that sharia be allowed as the law in family courts?
Thank Atheism your post was modded funny!
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
That was to be voluntary, only for Muslims, and in any case was NOT implemented. In fact, the Ontario government not only decided against this proposal, it now plans to abolish all use of religious law in the legal system [www.cbc.ca], including the Jewish courts, which have not been a problem.
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
And I did indicate that it was a recommendation.
Let's talk, then, about Canadian freedom from politically incorrect speech.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/bernstein200 312020910.asp [nationalreview.com]
http://www.zerointelligence.net/archives/000565.ph p [zerointelligence.net]
http://www.canadianfreespeech.com/battles/vancouve r/doug_collins.html [canadianfreespeech.com]
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
Yes, you mentioned that it was a recommendation, but not that it would have been voluntary and restricted to Muslims or it had already been definitively rejected.
On the subject of laws against hate speech, I agree that they are wrong, but that's another topic. Overall civil liberties in Canada are in good shape, better than the great majority of other countries, but it is true that there are areas, such as the hate speech laws, that could use improvement.
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
Yes, but that was spelled out in the article.
Doh! (Slaps head) Forgot this is Slashdot...
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
It's one thing to expect people to read the main article. It's another thing to expect people to read an article linked from a comment. The point is, anybody reading your comment and taking it at face value is likely to think that Ontario is seriously considering imposing Sharia law on everybody. The fact that the person who reads the linked article will discover that that isn't true doesn't change the fact that making the statement without the necessary qualifications is misleading.
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
Huge actual holes in the civil liberties also exist -- one of the provinces, for example, mandates the use of a certain language in public life.
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:3, Informative)
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/ [justice.gc.ca]
Re:Move to Canada. (Score:2)
Prohibition did require a constitutional amendment (Eighteenth Amendment [wikipedia.org]). The sad thing is that after Franklin Roosevelt and his abuse of the Constitution, the federal government would not bother amending the constitution to enact a similar ban. It would just assert that it had the power to do as i
Be boring (Score:5, Funny)
No Electronics (Score:2, Interesting)
Vote (Score:4, Insightful)
It's called a "ballot box."
Re:Vote (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I can generalise that a lot of people don't trust the electoral process anymore. And even if the contest is honest, the main political parties seem to act in very similiar ways (probably due to the amount of special interest money floating around).
I am not sure how to reverse this trend of feeling that the government is screwing the electoral process and the peop
Force Audit trail (Score:2)
They are paper. They can be audited and they will more than offset the "cost savings" of having the electronic balloting.
Re:Vote (Score:2)
Re:Vote (Score:2)
Not sure that it's them, or any of the other names bandied around. But, I think they got it basically right, and its one or even a few families that have made an art of not really being noticed publically.
You forgot redistricting (Score:2)
To sum it up, if you redraw the congressional districts so that there is always a majority for whichever party, then there really is no inter-party competition for that seat.
Like the Parent, I am not pinning this on republicans or democrats. Both sides have done this, it just happens that recently some republican got caught for blatantly abusing the process.
Possibly the only thi
Re:You forgot redistricting (Score:2)
Re:Vote (Score:2)
Re:Vote (Score:2)
Might as well go all the way! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Might as well go all the way! (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, I'll start. I believe the following people have been acting suspiciously, and may represent a serious danger to our fundamental way of life here in the UK. I suggest that they be arrested and put on trial as soon as possible.
Re:Might as well go all the way! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Might as well go all the way! (Score:2)
Move to the USA. You can say/write/publish all sorts of nasty things about W/Cheney/Rumsfeld and no one will touch you.
Just don't advocate harm to them. Then you might get sent to Guantanimo....
Re:Might as well go all the way! (Score:2)
Jack Straw
"we can share the women, we can share the wine..."
Re:Might as well go all the way! (Score:2)
His abuse of the
Defending Against Surveillance? (Score:4, Funny)
Don't make it easy (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, help throw up smoke screens. Spare bandwidth can be used to send random garbage - some of it should be truly random so no amount of work will allow someone to conclude that they have successfully decrypted usless data but rather that they still have work to do.
Educate yourself so you know how to protect your rights in the event that you become an unjust target.
Donate to the EFF, ACLU or other rights-defender of your choice.
Write your legislators, support those who will defend your freedoms, fight those who don't, and vote.
And remember to separate the people, the goals and the techniques. There really are "bad guys" out there and we have many smart and dedicated people defending us against them. Help them where you can. But remember that they are all sworn to defend the Constitution (here in the U.S.) and it's up to us to make sure they remember and abide by that pledge. The ends do not always justify the means.
Re:Don't make it easy (Score:2)
That only works if you make sure that the actual, real traffic also looks like truly random data.
Re:Don't make it easy (Score:2)
Let's give 'em something to talk about...... (Score:5, Interesting)
Poison their databases.
Plan and publicize, but don't hold, activities which fall under their "threat" category but aren't actually threatening, ie. protests at military related sites.
Call a flash mob that happens to be at such a place, but don't let that fact on when calling it.
Make sure to be at grandma's for Sunday dinner when such things do or do not occur.
Put up a web site for a bogus anti-something organization and encrypt the hell out of the pages, those being fair use snippets out of "Cryptonomicon" or some such.
There's far more potential spookees than spooks.
Re:Let's give 'em something to talk about...... (Score:2)
screw with the signal to noise ratio.
Example:
If we all but little red books, the dartmouth student no longer is a signal, just one of a bunch of noise. If we up the noise enough to make sure this type of domestic spying overloads the capabilities of Department of Homeland Security, one of two things would happen:
A)We would have an innefective DHS, and nobody would have much to worry about, the system would be overloaded, and any investigation would be rendered meaningless. Unfort
Re:Let's give 'em something to talk about...... (Score:2)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/ [msn.com]
Don't suppose that's the only one, either.
Approaches (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, I could encrypt all my email, ever. But then who would be able to read it? A lot less people than now. I could encrypt or hide all traffic to/from my computer (Tor, stunnel, etc.), but those won't solve everything.
Also, what about getting data from organizations? Like asking universities, bookstore, online data vendors, phone companies, and more? Dropping off the "grid" entirely is a difficult option. But those services could hold enough data about you to drive massive holes through any comprehensive privacy policy.
Re:Approaches (Score:2)
You essentially have to give up many of the convienences you're accustomed to. Taking home library books, having any bills to pay, a bank account, cable tv, credit cards, pharmacies, lengthy hosptial stays... the list goes on.
It requires true dedication to give up decades of social progress.
Domestic Spying? Or just being Dumb? (Score:2)
It seems to me to be more of a political foot-shot than anything.
Re:Domestic Spying? Or just being Dumb? (Score:3, Interesting)
Suppose the government captures a terrorist's cell phone addressbook. They then decide they'd like to eavesdrop on everyone in that list, in case some of them are also involved in terrorism. The administration may not be able to convince a FISA judge that simply being in someone's phone list is "probable cause" that the person is themselves a foreign agent or terro
Anti-war protesters (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with that theory is, there's no credible indication that we've captured any terrorists to get address books from in the first place. Instead (from related reports) it seems more likely that they're going after administration critics, anti-war protesters, and others who they would be hard pressed to come up with probably cause for.
--MarkusQ
P.S. Another hole in the theory ("The administration may not be able to convince a FISA judge that simply being in someone's phone list is "probable cause
Re:Anti-war protesters (Score:2)
Excuse me (Score:2)
Because if you actually RTFNYTA (Read the fucking New York Times Article) the claim was that the NSA was monitoring calls to and from terrorists overseas.
Spying on the Quakers (Score:2)
It's been in the news [msn.com] that the DOD has been spying on anti-war protesters, civil rights leaders [washingtonpost.com] and so forth. While I don't have first hand evidence that the two programs overlap, to refuse to connect the dots and at least suspect the possibility you would have to be stunningly obtuse or shamelessly disingenuous.
--MarkusQ
Re:Spying on the Quakers (Score:2)
*sigh* (Score:2)
And this may come as news to you, but the DOD is not the FBI or the NSA; the FBI is also, in this context, a red herring. My orginal point (which I stand by) is that given what we know about the actions of other executive branch agencies (the DOD, speifically, though the FBI could be used as well), and the history of similar claims (from "we are doing it to protect you from dirty bomber [washingtonpost.com]" to "we have had many successful prosecutions [reclaimdemocracy.org]") and even in the current argument [washingtonpost.com] that have turned out to be false, we ha
Follow up (Score:2)
Because if you actually RTFNYTA (Read the fucking New York Times Article) the claim was that the NSA was monitoring calls to and from terrorists overseas.
And if you read today's news [msn.com] you'd see that the spying was much more extensive than originally revealed.
Re:Domestic Spying? Or just being Dumb? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's conceivable that there are cases in which there is a legitimate reason for surveilance but in which the courts would not under current law issue a warrant. However, I think that it is important to note that NO SUCH ARGUMENT HAS BEEN MADE by the Bush Administration. They haven't outlined any such situations much less described any actual cases in which this problem has arisen. There is not a shred of evidence that the requirement for a warrant has been, or would have been had Bush not authorized warran
Re:Domestic Spying? Or just being Dumb? (Score:2)
Yes, Supreme Court judges are appointed for life. They can be impeached, but it is not easy. They are potentially subject to social pressure, but I suspect that any reluctance on the part of the Supreme Court to rule against the President is due to the justices' interpretation of the Constitution and, at worst, in some cases, their political views, not fear of retaliation.
Re:Dumb Domestic Spying? (Score:2)
Probably because, when it comes out who the Administration has been eavesdropping on, it's going to be embarassing. Like Watergate.
If the eavesdropping was purely international (Score:2)
As near as I can tell, you only need a warrant if one of the persons in the call is a U.S. citizen or holds a U.S. "green card" (i.e., they have permanent residency).
Which is what the NYT is claiming, but for which they provide no proof whatsoever - they printed anonymous claims that US citizens and residents were tapped without a warrant but they don't say who was
Automatic encrypted IP (Score:2)
There would be some configuration that say you want lots of throughput (xtea) versus lot
Try again (Score:3, Interesting)
No. Because if there were, or were actually used on a mass scale, they would be illegal very quickly.
Information overload (Score:3, Interesting)
Keep talking. All the time. Say nothing but gibberish. Overwhelm them with data to the point that they can't cope anymore.
If 20% of a given ISP user's would, everyday, post random gibberish on 10 different USENET groups, this would be a good start. Let those fuckers wonder what the hell we're talking about.
Let them outlaw encryption. Let them sue everybody.
"The best way to force a redesign is to throw a monkey wrench in the works".
Don't cooperate with the police. Never talk to them. Let them wonder. Let them find out by themselves that you're up to nothing bad. Bog them down. Let them think that EVERY civilian is suspect.
Re:Information overload (Score:5, Funny)
Fill USENET with garbage? I was pretty sure that was already happening...
Re:Information overload (Score:2)
While you may not be able to break the encryption, I'm pretty sure statistical analysis can tell the difference between garbage and encrypted garbage (if there's enough data to analyse)
Scramble the cameras (Score:4, Interesting)
Bill of Rights, Crypto Communication Tools (Score:5, Informative)
Want to read my stuff? Go ahead and crack it - no warrant necessary.
Get the rabbit installed on a machine behind your firewall
==> http://freenet.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
Faster than freenet
==> http://www.i2p.net/ [i2p.net]
Encrypt Jabber
==> http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/Jabber/jabberd.html [vanemery.com]
Onion Routing
==> http://tor.eff.org/ [eff.org]
Emerging Network To Reduce Orwellian Potency Yield
==> http://entropy.stop1984.com/ [stop1984.com]
Free Internet telephony
==> http://skype.com/ [skype.com]
GNU-ified P2p
==> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnunet/ [gnu.org]
DO NOT DENY yourself about 2 hours @ InfoAnarchy.org [infoanarchy.org]
OMG! ==> http://www.infoanarchy.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Pag e [infoanarchy.org]
LearnLearnLearnLearn ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography [wikipedia.org]
=================EMAIL ENCRYPTION===============
GPG (Free PGP)
==> http://gnupg.org/ [gnupg.org]
Integrated with Thunderbird
==> http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
Mutt can't be beat as a mailreader and integrates GPG wonderfully.
==> http://mutt.blackfish.org.uk/ [blackfish.org.uk]
==> http://www.mutt.org/links.html [mutt.org]
==> http://wiki.mutt.org/index.cgi?UserPages [mutt.org]
!!! Please do not immediately send newly created keys to the keyservers (as many HOWTOs instruct new users to). They are already overflowing with "test keys" and other people's experiments from over the years THAT HAVE NO EXPIRATION and will never be deleted. These keys are "orphans" and most will never be used. As keyservers sync together, and most keys are never deleted once submitted - GET YOUR KEY SETUP CORRECTLY AND HAVE PRACTICE WITH IT BEFORE SENDING IT OFF TO THE KEYSERVERS!!! Otherwise storage requirements will continue to grow and using these in the future will become more difficult FOR ALL. Please, if you are just starting out with PGP or GPG or GnuPG or anything similar (the last two are in fact the same thing) use manual key distribution to begin (ascii armor your public key with
$ gpg --export --armor my@email.address.org
and copy and paste it into an email body or attach it to an email
$ gpg --export --armor my@email.address.org > myPubKey.txt
to gain practice with GPG before uploading your key. This way if you need to create another you won't have uploaded your mistakes. Many choices need to be made and it's worth getting things right before "going public" with your new digital ID. Experiment with yourself and a few different email accounts or with some friends first.)
SET AN EXPIRATION OF 2-5 YEARS OR SO AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR PREFERENCES THE WAY YOU LIKE THEM BEFORE SENDING TO A KEYSERVER! Better yet is to HOST YOUR
don't forget our four boxes of liberty (Score:3, Insightful)
intentionally left blank (Score:4, Insightful)
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
hQEOAwrqJsAYQX3cEAP+KR6M0Ty7ETedwnNyg+B6eNpsOKEnm
VsTSZlC+XHGkmdnIRGl8Ux1Spk4yC5+SnExYDdZpfFSnUYSuU
F3Df3qrN8rdW14ok9zEbX4BzflMs70D75rM5yqic2rIUeMoRu
auC73kpn+BixXt5W+mScIV390XZBBxidj2UqkTvcxcqafi9ud
BwwWvLwlrN2nxFWV0ijBDK/vjCyjPrLX6z/UTSh2Fwsl0n8BK
PLKP5Hy2JwlRAH8Ci4SvpOdDjy+0wa5HIBbSLheLD0AK4Olnt
d5VuiAjjirRjcDqiVsFARKve7kzSNBSRfXQozDdUC4y95lfc2
X4xV/MX0g3e3JI6X/2/DquON
=wGEZ
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2)
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
Our judicial system on this side of the pond may have once been similar to yours, but you guys seem to be going down the 1984 route a lot faster than we are.
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2, Insightful)
You trust the system of a country with cameras on every corner, and a government that wants to hold you for 90 days so they have enough evidence to charge you with something?
The government doesn't want to hold us for 90 days before charging us. They voted on it, they don't want it. The prime minister wanted it. He couldn't convince the rest of the government that it was a good idea.
Our judicial system on this side of the pond may have once been similar to yours, but you guys seem to be going down
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2)
Good point...I forgot that distinction. It's worth noting that Tony Blair, up to this point, has largely been doing whatever Bush asks for.
Are you really so convinced that we are further along than you? Because of a few cameras and a failed attempt at passing a stupid law?
Not anymore. You have some
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: How about do nothing wrong? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, the worst they'll do if you're innocent is chase you through the subways and shoot you six times in the head.
Re: How about do nothing wrong? (Score:4, Informative)
Course, he lived in the same building and had vaguely the same skin colour as a suspected terrorist, and he went from that building to a tube station, so you can't really blame the police.
The man reported by witnesses as running through Stockport station and jumping over the barrier was not Charles but one of the police officers (or SAS squaddies possibly, we don't know yet - MoD confirms military were involved, though they deny they were directly involved) running to go execute Charles.
Re: How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2)
Absolutely. The police did nothing wrong at all. Their actions as both judge, jury and executioner has a long established precedent in British jurisprudence [wikipedia.org].
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:3, Interesting)
Arrests under anti-terror legislation since 11 September 2001: 10,000s.
Convictions under anti-terror legislation since 11 September 2001: 10s.
Can anyone tell me what's wrong with this picture?
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2)
And the other 29,950 people arrested?
Re:How about do nothing wrong? (Score:2)
Sorry, I took your post the wrong way. I find it's best to put a smiley when you mean one around these parts, or you just look like yet another troll, and get a suitably sarcastic reply (or ignored) accordingly...