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Programming Hardware Technology

In Search of Compact Keyboard That Doesn't Suck? 93

Posted by Cliff from the nix-the-keypad dept.
dlaur asks: "I am a right-handed programmer who doesn't use the numeric keypad. While some may appreciate it, I find that it forces me to place my mouse too far away and I would prefer a more compact keyboard. I depend upon easy access to the navigation keys (arrows/ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdn) while programming, and I find that, while compact keyboard layouts do eliminate the numeric keypad, they also cram the navigation keys into unnatural places. Does anyone manufacture a 'standard layout' keyboard sans keypad? Tip for entrepreneurs: I'll pay a lot for one."
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In Search of Compact Keyboard That Doesn't Suck? More

In Search of Compact Keyboard That Doesn't Suck?

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  • Logitech dinovo laser (Score:2, Informative)

    by steeph ( 85070 )
    I've bought this one 2 months ago, for exactly the same reason.I like it a lot although it could have been better if it had been in the natural design. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details /NL/EN,CRID=2158,CONTENTID=10777 [logitech.com]

    • Re:Logitech dinovo laser (Score:4, Informative)

      by obi ( 118631 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @11:20AM (#14475631)
      I agree with parent.

      I've got the dinovo for a while too (with the MX900/bluetooth), and been very happy with the keyboard especially. I hardly use the keypad (the screen would be nice if only it worked under linux, and the integrated calculator is ok, but a bit limited) The MX900 mouse is a bit heavy and doesn't always recharge properly - I'll probably buy a wired mouse soon.

      But the keyboard is top notch. Feels like it's very good quality (for the price, it better be). I prefer the soft/shallow keys of this keyboard, over the typewriter heavy/deep/IBM keys, so that's something you might want to consider. And it's bluetooth, so I can use it with my laptop too, and probably even with my Nokia 770 (haven't tried this yet though)
    • right here [iwantoneofthose.com] (saw link on fark)

  • Many choices (Score:5, Informative)

    by eyeball ( 17206 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @09:15AM (#14475310) Journal
    Behold [fentek-ind.com]. The Happy Hacking Lite 2 keyboard at the bottom of that page may be your best bet.

    • I have two of the HHK2 USB, one for home, one for work.

      Works like a charm and they're not that expensive. The only upgrade would be if they did a buckling spring version but that's probably too much to hope for.
    • I have 2 Happy Hacking Keyboards. One at home and one at work. At first I got it thinking it might be cool and worth a shot. Now I swear by it.

      However, my problem is that I DID use the numpad and want to use it again. It's really hard to play any Civilization games without it. Anyone know where I can get a really thin, practical USB numpad?
      • I'm not sure about really thin, but the same site has quite a few numeric keypads [fentek-ind.com].

      • Re:Many choices (Score:2, Informative)

        by Rude Turnip ( 49495 )
        I also use a Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2. I do have a need for a numeric keypad for work purposes (punching numbers into spreadsheets). I purchased an IBM-branded USB numeric keypad for 20 or 30 dollars. It's really thin and I simply plug it into one of the USB ports on the keyboard. I've got my mouse plugged into the second USB port on the keyboard, so there is only one USB cable actually going into my laptop. Having the numeric keypad separate from the keyboard gives you lots of flexibilit in posit
    • I like them a lot, too bad about the F-keys though, I'd want them to be actual separate keys since I do use them a lot.
    • Thanks for the Fentek link! Maybe you guys also know of good three button optical USB mice? Or a clickable scrollwheel with a nice light action so that doesn't get pressed by mistake when scrolling?

      I quite like my Logitech Mouseman Traveler M-BJ79, but it doesn't seem to be available any more (except in Russia?), and I need another (full size) mouse at work.

      thanks...

    • Re:Many choices (Score:3, Insightful)

      by IntlHarvester ( 11985 )
      I know that Happy Hacking is the knee-jerk response to any keyboard question -- but it doesn't come anywhere near his requirements for the navigation keys -- It doesn't even have dedicated keys!

      Also, the Apple PowerBook keyboard was obviously designed by Happy Hacking-using crackbabies.
    • I use one of these: keyboards [fentek-ind.com]

      Only mine is braned by Fujitsu Siemens - go figure.

      I has the advantage of being very adjustable and has reduced my RSI problems a lot. The weird enter key takes a bit of getting used to, I was used to an "L" shaped one, but the cursors are sensible, the only weird thing is getting used to the slightly odd home/end/insert/delete/pgup/pgdown positioning but they are separeate keys on the right and reasonably easy to get used to.

  • Don't those keyboards that they make for laptops usually come sans numpad? I thought they did...

  • Just switch to left handed mousing! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by brianmf ( 571620 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @09:36AM (#14475349)
    Did you try switching your mouse to the LHS of your keyboard?

    I did this about six months ago, and havent looked back since. Typical setups put too many common functions on the RHS. Having the arrow keys, pgUp, pgDown, numeric keypad, del and mouse all in a small area is crazy. Switching the mouse to the LHS (and reversing the buttons) is the way to go. It allows you to use the mouse and the keyboard at the same time.

    Just takes about a week to get used to it...
    • I second this! You have two hands so why not use both of them efficiently at the same time -- right hand on the keyboard, left hand on the mouse. This is the way for right-handed people, because the keyboard requires more dexterity IMHO.

      Oddly enough, I've done this for about six years, without swapping the buttons. I'm aware of the sense of symmetry in muscle memory, but I never felt the need. It's also easier for other people to use my machine, and vice versa.

    • Or, you could try a left handed keyboard [thelefthand.com].
      • A reasonable suggestion, but it's worth remembering that a standard keyboard was originally designed to have the numeric pad used with the left hand (hence the big Enter key for the thumb) while entering columns of numbers, with the keyboard shoved over to the left and your paper work in front of you.

    • Yeah try it. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TheLink ( 130905 )
      (the enter keys are on the right side too...)

      I switched some years back when I got a bit of RSI on right hand. So it's not for the same reason, but there's no real disadvantage.

      Now I can use the mouse with both hands, but left hand is more for normal desktop mousing, right hand is for games - FPS etc ;).

      Some of my colleagues thought I was left handed...

      Oh yeah, I suggest you don't change the mouse button settings, that way you can use most people's mouse configs with either hand.
      • Just another "me, too!" post...

        I'm right-handed and I have had my mouse on the left for several years now. At this point, I find it far more comfortable and flexible to use -- I even prefer doing Photoshop-like fine detail work with my left hand now.

        Actually, at a recent occupational safety meeting at work about RSI, I found that a large percentage (10%-25% IIRC) of my coworkers have done the same thing.
    • Even better, get rid of the mouse. If you don't do detail work (graphics), an IBM trackpoint works quite well. I just picked up an old IBM Model M13 keyboard (black, buckling-spring, trackpoint), and it's great (though the people sitting around me may not enjoy the sound at 130wpm as much as I do). It also has a PS/2 mouse port for using a regular mouse with it, for when you do need to do detail work. The only problem is that you will find yourself reaching for the trackpoint on every keyboard you use.

  • IBM Model M Space Saver (Score:5, Informative)

    by BitchKapoor ( 732880 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @09:57AM (#14475398) Homepage Journal
    Dude, I use the IBM Model M Space Saver keyboard, and it's totally awesome. It's just like a regular Model M high-durability buckling-spring keyboard, except minus the numeric keypad. Here's a page with a picture comparing the Space Saver to a full M and a Happy Hacking [modelm.org]. This other page depicts the more typical beige Model M Space Saver, albeit retrofitted for Dvorak [pigdog.org]. BitchKapoor, over and out!
    • You can't go wrong with a Model M. Built like the pyramids and likely to last as long. Sometimes it doesn't work very well in a cubicle environment because neighbors complain about the key click noise otherwise it is great.

    • This keyboard is exactly the way to go. The spacing is wide and old-style, but without the keypad, allowing control of the mouse in the space where the keypad would have been. This has reduced my arm motion from keyboard to mouse and back drastically. Over the course of a 10hr programming day, that's a lot less stress on one's elbow.

      I bought mine off eBay, but they can also be found sometimes at clickykeyboards.com [clickykeyboards.com], for something of a premium price (~$85).

      They are not quiet.
    • I can't agree more -- typing this post on my Model M Space Saver!
    • Unicomp now manufactures the old IBM "clicky" keyboards, at pckeyboards.com for around $50.

      Other keyboards that use mechanical keyswitchs are the SmartBoard, a split keyboard, and a "Lil Big Board", a reduced number of keys keyboard. Both available at datadesktech.com for around $80. Both use mechanical keyswitches that are less noisy than the IBM ones. The Smartboard keyswitches are additionally lower force and to me feel a lot better.

      But the biggest difference come from going to a keyswitch keyboard inste

  • IBM Trackpoint SpaceSaver (Score:3, Informative)

    by penguin-collective ( 932038 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @10:03AM (#14475419)
    I like the IBM Trackpoint SpaceSaver [ibm.com]. In addition to being a nice compact keyboard, the Trackpoint is great for people who don't like to reach for the mouse all the time.
  • Software development is not just writing code -- a substantial portion of the development process involves numerical analysis, and tools (spreadsheets for example) are essential for many kinds of analytics. Using an analytics tool without a numeric keypad is a bit like writing software on... a blackberry. There are mini (85-90 key) keyboards out there without embedded numpads, but even an embedded numpad can be awkward to use regularly. Something to consider in your search anyway. A handful of my colleagues

    • And yet somehow, as a person who writes software that does maths all day, and having spent several years studying maths at university before that, I find the keypad useful for nothing other than gaming.

      I do wish we'd had this discussion a couple of weeks ago, though. My old keyboard was dying, and no-one seems to supply a straightforward 102- or even 105-key box at my local PC store any more. I settled on a nice-looking Advent aluminium job, since the keys feel quite nice to type on and it's easy on the e

  • That's what I did, I have my SUN Type6 (Because I keep forgetting to order the Type5 USB adaptor) and my laptop keyboard equidistant, and in front of them is my huge (30x48cm IIRC) mousepad with my laser mouse on it, works brilliantly.
  • I love the tactile and auditory feedback of the Model M, however in my cubicle environment they are too loud - neighbors complain.

    Does anyone know of a buckling spring design that has exactly the same feel of the model M without the loud sound. I would dealy love to get rid of the dome keyboard I am using now.

    • Well, as long as your boss doesn't say anything about it... besides, you can always get your coworkers ear plugs.

      Personally, I don't think the Model:M is that loud-- but maybe I'm ust used to it.

      • Well, as long as your boss doesn't say anything about it... besides, you can always get your coworkers ear plugs.
        Personally, I don't think the Model:M is that loud-- but maybe I'm ust used to it.

        Yeah, that's what I thought. I'd been using my M at work for a few months and decided to try something new, so I was bringing it back home. Well, on my way out one of my coworkers said "thank god you're getting rid of that damn thing, it was so loud." No time like the present, Dumbass.

    • Unicomp make the original IBM clicky keyboards, for $50 or so. pckeyboards.com

      Darwin Keyboards makes the Smartboard, available through Datadesktech.com. It features a lighter mechanical keyswitch than the IBM keyboards, a split key layout, and wider keys for your pinky fingers. Very nice to type on, although I do not like the split keyboards in general. But these are the best keyswitchs available bar none.

      Datadesktech.com also sells the "lil big board" for $80, a mechanical keyswitch keyboard that is downsi
  • ...cut if off. I did and it's GREAT. took a little while to re-center my typing. I was hunting to the left for a but it's OK now. You need the right kb for this: a membrane one. I found an old compaq [160648-202] and you can fold the membrane of the num-pad under the remaining kb after you saw off the num-pad and bolt it back together.
    Easy, more room for gimpish mousing and it just looks better.
  • Think Geek has this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/77ba/ [thinkgeek.com] A keyboard where you can tile the keys however you feel like. It's for gamers but I'm sure you could make it work for your purposes.

  • Try a laptop! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aquarian ( 134728 ) on Sunday January 15, 2006 @11:38AM (#14475682)
    I switched to a laptop, and I'm never going back. Thinkpads have the best keyboards ever.
    • And IBM sells a desktop version of the ThinkPad keyboard, called the UltraNav Travel [amazon.com]. However it doesn't have standard navigaton key placement like the questioner is looking for.
    • Personally I found the opposite. I used to think regular keyboards sucked until I bought a laptop (PowerBook). I ended up having to buy a rollup keyboard.
      • Personally I found the opposite.

        And you're BOTH right! As he said, Thinkpads have the best keyboard ever. It took me a week to get used to it when I was forced to use a Thinkpad as a loaner and I was forced to use that "awful eraserhead" pointer", as I described it. After I got good at it that awful eraserhead right under my index finger and the three mousebuttons always under my thumbs became so fast and natural that I refused to go back to my own computer and bought myself a Thinkpad.

        With the mouse and t

  • Logitech diNovo (Score:1, Redundant)

    by shine-shine ( 529700 )
    It's not cheap, and it's not compact, but it does offer you a full fleged keyboard sans the leypad.

    Images courtesy of Google [google.com]

  • They have a removable keypad that can also be used as a calculator.

    Or as most would have it, paperweight.

    Comes in two varieties, the desktop version (for $270) or the laptop wireless version with USB dongle (for $120). I'm seriously considering getting one for myself, but they seem to have no idea where the enter exactly is and the left shift button is mangled, so I'm not sure I'm going to mispress a few keys. Seeing the wear on my current keyboard I'm pressing the enter button in the middle so I'd regularl
  • I've been using a TypeMatrix for a little over a year. The points I like are the non staggered keys, and, on the model I use, a Dvorak switch and labels. It took a little getting used to, but I find it well worth it. The arrow keys are easily reached with the right hand. The price isn't bad either at around $100.

    The only drawback I've found are the insert, home, end, page up and page down keys as they are function shifted from the F8 through F12 keys. Hardly a problem, I just remapped them.

    TypeMatrix [typematrix.com]

    Jo
  • You could always just chop off the num pad... http://www.tlb.org/keyboardchop.html [tlb.org]
  • Does anyone know where I can buy a microswitch USB keyboard? Everything I find seems to be membrane (which I hate). Personally I like microswitch better than buckling spring (though Type Ms are still quite fun). In line with the topic, it'd probably be nice if it didn't have the numeric pad as well (though for gaming, that's pretty great!)
    • Does anyone know where I can buy a microswitch USB keyboard?

      Deck Keyboards [deckkeyboards.com] use a microswitch with gold contacts. They're USB, and available with or without a numeric keypad (or you can also get their separate numeric keypad). All the keys are individually lighted, and the company sells different parts so you can mod them.

      The company is part of TG3 (the company that makes the keyboards used in police cars), so you know their boards can take a real beating.

  • You could convert [hgtp.org] a laptop keyboard for use with desktop computers. The person in that article made it harder on himself by not matchnig up the rows and columns of the keyboard with the controller.
  • Unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions for an alternative - I agree, all the compact keyboards I have seen seem to suck in one way or another. I suppose that is the tradeoff you make.

    My wife recently asked me about getting her a smaller keyboard - basically, she wants a full set of keys (number pad and all - she knows 10 keying, and uses it all the time), just a smaller keyboard, to help save space and to fit her hands better as they are smaller than average. If they made a keyboard where all the

    • I am also looking for a wireless keyboard for an HTPC-type application. Ideally, it would be small (no keypad needed), with a built in mouse pointing system (no separate mouse). It would also be nice if there was a separate wireless remote control-like controller included (for times where you just want to point-n-click, no typing needed). I don't hold out much hope finding that, either...

      Microsoft makes one for MCE stuff, but it might work for other HTPCs. It's gotten decent reviews.

    • While they don't immediately come to mind when `not expensive' is mentioned, Sony makes some good small-sized laptops that feature small keyboards (both keycaps and spacing), and nice-quality small screens. While the latest and greatest Sony Vaois are pretty expensive, you can often find previous generations at affordable prices, and many of these devices are good travelling DVD players as well.

      For both your needs and the OP, there are a number of `media keyboards' seemingly designed for living room use th
  • ThinkPlus USB Travel Keyboard with UltraNav http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/P roductDisplay?catalogId=-840&storeId=10000001&lang Id=-1&dualCurrId=1000073&categoryId=2581898&produc tId=8717673 [ibm.com] This is basically the ThinkPad keyboard. It's great--pointing stick and trackpad.
    • I have the non-travel version of this keyboard and I love it...the trackpoint helps compress the amount of space the keyboard + mouse take up in my keyboard tray and allow me to keep the numpad.
  • I know the poster said he was right-handed, but for lefties, you might want to consider using your mouse on the left side of your keyboard. Access to the numeric keypad is amazing, and you can program the bejesus out of it for FPS games (0 = jump, Enter = secondary fire, Plus = zoom, etc.).

    I've been using my mouse left handed for close to 9 years now, and other than bugging the shit out of people who sit down to use my computer (which can be a tremendous advantage itself), it works out great.
  • A keyboard/LCD combination in the same form-factor as a laptop, with all the laptop trimmings like a trackpad, speakers, DVD-Rom, USB ports, etc, but without the motherboard, battery, harddrive.. I do most of my work on a laptop on the couch, but I really could use the power of a real desktop. VNC and a normal laptop would be an option, but would restrict the use of video, 3D acceleration. Tethered using real DVI & USB connections would be much better, or multiple video signals could even be multiplexe
    • Sans keayboard, viewsonic [viewsonic.com] makes something just like this.

      It's essentially a tablet pc without the pc. Crappy resolution, but it works wirelessly. The biggest problem though: it's about the same heft and thickness as a normal tablet pc.

      What I'd like is one that works wirelessly, 1280x1024 or greater res., has a detachable keybord/touchpad, and is at least as light and thin as a good laptop. Of course, it would probably cost as much as a real laptop as the lcd alone is more than half the price.

  • FrogPad's iPad Bluetooth thing is really cool - except that if you are a programmer no good access the [ ( ] ) { } ' s
  • Maybe this [amazon.com] is what you're looking for?

  • I find that it forces me to place my mouse too far away and I would prefer a more compact keyboard.

    Your "preference" is good ergonomics — reaching over, the way most mouse users do, helps screw up your wrist.

    But yeah, it is stupid that the standard keyboard contains a numeric keypad. Only useful for people who have to enter a lot of numbers. Which I'm sure there are, but 95% of us don't.

    I use a Goldtouch [keyovation.com] keyboard. Which not only uses less space, but is split down the middle to allow you to posit

  • Who needs arrow keys when you've got vi?
    HJKL to the rescue - you will never look back (and you will never get those random escape-[ strings inserted into your document that you sometimes get with arrow keys in an xterm either).
    • I use Vi -- and I still need a mouse. Text files don't exist in a vacuum. You need to compile them, feed them to a scripting engine, cut and paste them to other programs.

      Of course, if you're really clever, you can do everything in Vi and the command line and not use your GUI at all. But I prefer not to spend half my life learning obscure commands and keystroke sequences.

      • Re:Learn vi! (Score:5, Funny)

        by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @12:17AM (#14479431)
        I use Vi -- and I still need a mouse.

        How very nice for you.

        Too bad this thread is about keyboards that lack arrow keys - not going mouse-free. Please save your comment so that it can be recycled in a future slashdot posting that is actually on topic.
        • Jeez, you are a self righteous little idiot. Go back and read the story, then tell me which one of us is off topic. Hint: search for the word "mouse".
          • Jeez, you are a self righteous little idiot. Go back and read the story, then tell me which one of us is off topic. Hint: search for the word "mouse".

            The story is clearly about getting a smaller keyboard that still has arrow keys because he wants the mouse closer to the main part of the keyboard. It does not say one thing about eliminating the need for a mouse. Thus your random response about eliminating the need for a mouse is clearly off-topic in general and absolutely off-topic as a reply to my post. C
  • If it's the distance to the mouse that you're looking at, just go with a left-handed keyboard. Google brings this [fentek-ind.com] up.

    The only problem is I never found one with the exact layout that I like (wide backspace, tall enter with a backslash nestled up to it.)

  • http://www.pckeyboard.com/surfer.html [pckeyboard.com] the space saver from unicomp looks like a nice model it also comes with a built in fuzzy nipple mouse and ps/2 mouse port
  • what, you mean like h, j, k, and l?
    or do you mean the ever more popular w-asd setup?
  • I had the same problem, i wanted the narrower keyboard so it would leave more room for making those deft mouse moves in Quake. I was looking for a good one for a long time but found it totally by accident. I was at Circuit City looking for something else entirely, when I happened to stroll through the console games area. There it was on the shelf, a tiny keyboard made by logitech for the Playstation 2. It has a standard usb cable and works perfectly on my pc. It even has the WIN key, which has a pictur
  • I'm posting this from my brand new Kinesis keyboard. It's not really compact, and whether the arrow keys are located someplace sane is debatable, you can have the mouse nice and close to your right hand. I do admit they've got some really cool ideas for keyboard & mouse input, they just take a little bit to retrain your hands to the different layout. Fortunately, you're already prepared to pay a lot for the keyboard. Their products are not cheap: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ [kinesis-ergo.com]
  • I had a similar problem at work... made worse by the fact that our lovely office has these "ergonomic" desktops with a center that lowers for the keyboard. Well to keep the mouse there, you have to place the keyboard to the left...

    I may still look at a narrower keyboard, but in the meantime I have a logitech media keyboard that cost me about $30 and has excellent feel.

    And I bought a Mouse Bridge [yahoo.com]. The link is jsut an example, do a search on google to find others. It's a small platform which sits over the
  • Two days late, but it was the weekend. You might check out dvortyboards.com. forTheir order page is here [blazingdot.com] and they are switchable boards labeled dvorak and qwerty boards and qwerty only, but take a look at the 2030. The nav buttons are to the right of the spacebar where the Alt, Windows, and Control buttons would be. If you need the numpad, hit the numlock button at the top right, and the grey keys become your numpad. The enter and backspace keys are now in the middle of the keyboard where you can hit t
  • I was looking for the same thing you were, except also cheap. I found http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details /US/EN,CRID=2282,CONTENTID=6636 [logitech.com] this Logitech NetPlay Gkeyboard at a Gamerz store, and finally bought one when I saw it at a Best Buy for 19.95. It recognizes as a standard USB HID keyboard, feels like a laptop KB, and has an 8 foot cord. Most of the keys are normal sized, except for the top 2 rows (number keys and Function keys). Also, not being a "windows" keyboard, there is no "men

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