Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Security

Getting Fingerprint Readers to Read Your Prints? 88

Posted by Cliff from the worse-than-pesky-smartcards dept.
crypticgeek asks: "I recently obtained a new job, and I'm already at my wit's end. Many of the doors in our facility have finger print readers because they are high security areas. No matter how hard I've tried, I can't get the system to read my prints very well, since they aren't well 'defined'. This means I don't have access to the areas I need to. I have to have someone else let me in to secure areas. I've tried using lotion thinking they were too dry, but that didn't work. In fact, most of the time my hands are really sweaty. Someone suggested I use nail polish remover and that would 'raise' the print, however I'm skeptical. Has anyone else had problems with finger print devices, or know of some possible ways of getting a better read?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Getting Fingerprint Readers to Read Your Prints? More

Getting Fingerprint Readers to Read Your Prints?

Comments Filter:

  • In the old days (Score:5, Informative)

    by 2.7182 ( 819680 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:12PM (#14519875)
    The FBI has a special recommended way to clean hands before getting prints. You washed your hands in soap, then rinsed in alcohol, and then air dryed, no towel.

    • ridgebuilder solution (Score:4, Informative)

      by spineboy ( 22918 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:55PM (#14520248) Journal
      There's something called Ridgebuilder - it's designed to temporarily enhance fingerprnts. I'm a surgeon and typically 'cause we scrub our hands so much we have ill-defined fingerprints. Part of being medically licensed, requires us to be fingerprinted, and many of us have difficulty with this part due to the polished nature of our hands. Ridgebuulder is one of the products recommended to help us become successfully printed.

      • Re:ridgebuilder solution (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Otter ( 3800 )
        It's one thing to use something like that once a year, but the submitter is talking about daily use. (Or at least enough use to allow daily scanning.) His idea of nail polish remover (i.e. acetone) strikes me as potentially destructive to skin as a long-term solution, and your suggestion (which turns up nothing in Google so I don't know what it is) doesn't sound much healthier.

        I agree with the people who say this is his bosses' problem, not his...

      • Here's a link to a place selling Ridge Builder: http://www.tritechusa.com/fingerprint/LC-RB.htm [tritechusa.com] It's light on the details, though, so I'm still not sure how it works or if it's safe.

        Another site had this to say: "The ridge builder works by temporarily "puffing" or raising the fingerprint ridges. I'm fairly sure it sounds like something you wouldn't want to use on a daily basis.

        Maybe you could use it once, get some clear prints, then use those to build a latex model of your finger print. You coul

    • DO NOT USE ALCOHOL UNTIL YOU ARE SURE (Score:4, Informative)

      by snooo53 ( 663796 ) * on Friday January 20, 2006 @02:27PM (#14520529) Journal
      A big warning about the previous post.. many fingerprint scanners and touchscreens are actually damaged by alcohol, especially older ones. So unless you want to ruin it for everyone, make darn sure with the manufacturer that it won't cause damage.

      There is a lot of bad advice in the thread. Some things I have found that really work
      1. The number 1 cause of bad prints is dryness. Make sure your finger is moist. You can do this with lotion or simply rubbing your fingers together
      2. Press firmly but don't mash your finger into it.
      3. If it doesn't work after a second or two, lift it up and try it again.
      4. Make sure you are covering the scanner completely. Don't just scan the tip of your finger. The more area you can cover it with the better.
      5. If it still doesn't work, try scooting your finger higher up on the scanner to get the better prints towards the bottom of your pads.
      6. Most setups have the option of registering a different finger. Try your middle finger or your thumb instead.
      7. If a lot of people are having trouble, they probably have the match settings too high or the scanner is defective. But more than likely, it is probably you.

      • Re:DO NOT USE ALCOHOL UNTIL YOU ARE SURE (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Wolfger ( 96957 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @05:00PM (#14521946)
        many fingerprint scanners and touchscreens are actually damaged by alcohol, especially older ones. So unless you want to ruin it for everyone...
        Ruining it for everyone doesn't sound like a half-bad idea, actually. I mean, how much security can there be if people who can access these areas are letting you in because you can't? Maybe if the readers are an abysmal failure, they will be replaced with something more sensible.
    • Techniques to get a one-time dye transfers that can sit in a warehouse without degrading are probably different than techniques to get an electronic scanner to read your prints every day.
    • I'll have to try this when I get home.

  • Get some Play-Doh (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Monte ( 48723 )
    ...and make a fake finger. I read here on /. that Play-Doh can fool a fingerpint scanner. Might be worth a try.
    • Then you lose said fake finger and somebody can sneak into the secure area. If they thought that a simple lock and key security mechanism was suitable, they would have done it. The fingerprint system probably isn't meant as an inconvenience to be circumvented, but to make sure that only the proper people can get in, and the key can't be accidentally lost or fall into the wrong hands, at least not without a great deal of trouble.

  • Rub your fingers together (Score:3, Interesting)

    by chewedtoothpick ( 564184 ) <chewedtoothpickNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:13PM (#14519889)
    If I have problem with my fingerprint readers, I usually scrape two fingers together (one being the referance print) to try and bring up the print ridges much like you would to get the nap in your flooring carpet to fluff up... Usually works for me...
    • You could also try programming in some other fingers? If they are having trouble reading your print to get in, they should also be having trouble reading your print to program the scanner. Does it retry more than twice when programming / reading your print the first time? Try another finger that doesn't retry as often when programming the scanner...

  • Sensitivity Threshold (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mgreider ( 900058 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:14PM (#14519901) Homepage
    You might have already tried this, but what about increasing the sensitivity threshold on the fingerprint reader. I know our system has the ability to increase or decrease this threshold.
  • work on a charge differential between the reader and the body? Perhaps your biological clock is running down, try plugging yourself into 110AC.

  • Dude... (Score:4, Funny)

    by BigZaphod ( 12942 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:15PM (#14519913) Homepage
    You need to watch more James Bond movies.. Everyone knows you can get a little hand-held device which reads your finger prints and then electronically displays them on a little screen which all finger print readers can read. Just get yourself one of those, have it read your prints, and then carry it around with you in your pocket! As a bonus: when you're bored at work you can go around using a print dusting kit and grab the prints of everyone else in the office, too, and snoop around in high security areas that you don't normally have access to during the night. Duh!

  • Jelly Bears (Score:4, Funny)

    by johnjones ( 14274 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:15PM (#14519914) Homepage Journal
    try sticking Jelly Bears over your thumb and placing over the reader

    works most of the time just dont look at who had access...

    regards

    John Jones

  • Not your problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by voice_of_all_reason ( 926702 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:15PM (#14519916)
    Sit at your desk with no work to do, buddy. Just be sure to set something in motion to get someone else who's job it is to fix these sort of problems on it.

    Why should you trouble yourself if the company's assclown policies are preventing you from doing work?

    • MOD PARENT UP (Score:2, Informative)

      by mkcmkc ( 197982 )
      Basically this is correct. This is not a problem that you can solve, and it's not something you should worry about, aside from notifying your superiors that it's a major problem for you.
      • Heh, I was being silly. Though I appreciate your support

        While at my place they're generally instantly forgiving if I'm loafing because someone else has locked the database or neglected to make a bugfix for a deadline, you'll still lose prestiege in the eyes of some bosses even if it's completely out of your hands. Regardless of even being aware that its not your fault, they'll still subconsciously be thinking "well, he is getting paid for nothing..."

        You also run the risk of the boss discovering he act
        • But seriously, if these people are paying you, but locking you out, should you really be asking slashdot about it? Don't you think your BOSS should be who you talk about it with?
  • Just make a fake finger using the fingerprint of one of your colleagues: instructions here [theregister.co.uk].

  • Some folks are just SOL (Score:3, Informative)

    by Peterl ( 39350 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:20PM (#14519974)
    Sorry, but you might just be hosed. I work for a company that does biometrics, and a few people who work for us just don't have well-enough defined prints to make the sensors read reliably. Sometimes you can help that by pressing harder or lighter. Also, some readers can be adjusted for sensitivity. The problem with cranking the sensitivity up on a public reader is that can make it *less* reliable for people with normal prints.

    Are the sensors chip-based or optical? If they're chip-based, I've found that having clean fingers helps, but if I *just* washed and dried my hands, it's harder to get a good read than if I wait a minute for some sweat/oil to form on the skin again.

  • Suggestion (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:22PM (#14519984)
    Have you tried taking your gloves off?

  • Use another finger (Score:3, Interesting)

    by chenski ( 662960 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:23PM (#14519993)
    Why not "change your password" by using a different finger?

  • Fake your own prints (Score:2, Informative)

    by nerd65536 ( 692353 )
    If your actual fingers don't work, then make your own out of play-dough [slashdot.org] or other materials [slashdot.org]. The success rates with spoofing systems may be better than with your real finger. Also consider that the problem is compounded by the fact that their original copy of your fingerprint may also be poorly defined.

    Are your other fingers equally poorly defined? Compare them to each other (and other people's as a control group) to see if one of your fingers works better (hopefully your middle finger for added irony)

  • Whooa! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pmc ( 40532 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:26PM (#14520021) Homepage
    You have to have someone else let you into secure areas? This strikes me as very risky indeed - for your career that is. Among other things, the point of such systems is to audit who enters the areas, and you are circumventing it.

    Get them to fix the system so it lets you in - don't put yourself at risk by breaking the rules.
    • Or use that as a reason to implement a better system - obviously the expense of setting up a fingerprint reader that does not work reliably was way too much if it is so easily circumvented. They might as well just put up a sign letting people know they are not allowed in without proper authorization...would probably work as well.

  • Check your finger positioning (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:27PM (#14520028)
    It appears the loops and whorls of my fingerprints are a little lower than average - so when I first tried to use a fingerprint reader I couldn't register with the system, nevermind authenticate with it later. Then, I finally loaded up an admin utility that showed the scanned image that the recognition engine was using - and I noticed the print didn't look complete.

    Solution: I put almost half of the required fingertip over the top of the imaging sensor, so the stupid little device gets the part of my print it really wants.

    Anyway, it might be worth a try to play around with finger positioning.

  • finger on a string (Score:5, Funny)

    by nomax ( 165497 ) * on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:28PM (#14520044)
    Easy - get yourself to some local med school and barter for a finger from some leftover dissection class (there's gotta be tons of extra fingers right?). Make sure it has a nice print. Anyway, retrain your work security system on the new finger, and pop that baby around your neck on a string. If the system has one of those annoying "it has to be warm" features just stick it in your mouth for a minute before use.

  • raise the ridges (Score:3, Informative)

    by B00yah ( 213676 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:29PM (#14520052) Homepage
    by soaking your finger in some water, then drying it off. They key is to do it long enough that the ridges rise, but stop before you've got raisin's for finger tips. annoying, but doing it first thing in the morning should leave them like that all day.

  • Employer's problem (Score:5, Interesting)

    by alyosha1 ( 581809 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:31PM (#14520072)
    Surely this is your employer's problem, not yours, given that they're the ones who've implemented a faulty security system? As it's impeding your ability to do your job, it's costing them money and so is in their best interests to fix.
    • It is. However, the employer will most likely find it easier to replace the employee than fix the security system.
      • That's a rediculous assumption. Most business organizations aren't evil. Most companies actually value their employees. Not only that, but if this guy is having the problem, there are probably others having it too. Short of a drop of blood, nobody has come up with a biometric system that is actually completely reliable yet, or even close to it depending on what you consider 'close'.
      • > However, the employer will most likely find it easier to replace
        > the employee than fix the security system.

        Not if he invokes the ADA. He is obviously disabled, and they must accomodate him.
        • I'd question whether "ill-defined fingerprints" is a disability, as would the courts.

          Besides..

          http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q%26aeng02.htm [usdoj.gov]

          "In addition, an employer is not required to make an accommodation if it would impose an "undue hardship" on the operation of the employer's business."

          Such as compromising security, having to redo their entire security system, etc.

          "Q. Can an employer consider health and safety when deciding whether to hire an applicant or retain an employee with a disability?

          A. Yes. The AD

  • Safecrackers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rot26 ( 240034 ) * on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:41PM (#14520138) Homepage Journal
    This isn't an instant solution but it will probably work in the near-term. Try sanding down the pads of your finger(s). The skin will grow back thicker, i.e. it will callous, and your prints will be more distinct. I play guitar and the pads of my left fingers are about 1/16" thick. Last time I was fingerprinted (for a concealed weapon permit, if you're curious) the cop who did it told me I had the best prints he had seen in a long time.

  • One piece of advice... (Score:3, Informative)

    by general_re ( 8883 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @01:47PM (#14520176) Homepage
    No idea what you should do, but soaking your fingers in nail polish remover (acetone) or some such is not an especially good idea - it gets absorbed through your skin and into your bloodstream, where it's awfully hard on your liver.
  • I'd be very tempted to make a fake finger that the system would accept, carry it around for a while... then demonstrate to management that the stupid biometric system will read a fake finger, but not a real one.
    • A good way to get fired and perhaps arrested as well.
      • A good way to get fired and perhaps arrested as well.

        Get arrested for gaining access to what you are already authorized?

        • "A good way to get fired and perhaps arrested as well."

          "Get arrested for gaining access to what you are already authorized?

          Absolutely. And although the official reason would be "spoofing the security system" and the arrest would be for "possession and use of illegal access devices" the real reason would be what it always is: making your bosses look like idiots.

  • ...that you aren't human?

    Robot, Alien, Alien-hybrid, clone, some poor shmuck who has replaced the real you with implanted memories waiting for the trigger to set you off.

  • Consider yourself lucky (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Now go rob some banks, steal a car, or something.

  • Try breathing on the glassy thingy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheLink ( 130905 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @02:22PM (#14520473) Journal
    You might be able to enter as the previous person ;).

    On many fingerprint readers there's usually this glass thingy where you put your finger. Usually the oils from the previous print will be left on the glass, by breathing on it, you can often fog up the glass to create an image which can be read by the reader.

    With most biometric systems you need a human or something monitoring that no funny business like this is happening.

    Anyway, you should just make a distinctive mold, register it and put it on your keychain.

  • Yup... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Friday January 20, 2006 @02:33PM (#14520609)
    My wife essentially has no fingerprints due to having had some severe eczema in the past. Her fingertips are fairly smooth with the occational crack or line, but those move week to week. At her last job they had fingerprint locks to keep the animal rights protesters out (when you make new drugs the FDA makes you test on animals... No way around it, but try telling that to the protesters.) and they never worked for her. When she got to work she had to call security to let her in and do an ID check every single day.

    Fingerprint locks should be used as a highish security convienience. There should always be a backup system too. Even if that backup system is a big thug checking photo IDs.
    • fingerprint locks are stupid. they are nothing more than an unchangable password that you leave on everything you touch.

      a smart card with a PIN key is more secure and easier to use.
      • fingerprint locks are stupid. they are nothing more than an unchangable password that you leave on everything you touch.

        Like I said, they're nothing more than a convienience. Any implementation that doesn't have a PIN along with the fingerprint is completely broken anyway. You should never have a system where just the fingerprint gives you access.
    • Why didn't she try the back of her finger? Or did that also have changing markings?

  • Find somebod y inthe office with full access that nobody likes and get them drunk and just cut off there finger with a big ass knife...,

    Just made sure to cut it at the Proximal Phalanx (see pic) [davidlnelson.md] under the nuckle (see pic) [aol.com] for easy drilling of bone to attach onto keyring.....

    Or send it to me and I'll make it up for you for a small fee

  • Fingerprint locks don't work anyway (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Friday January 20, 2006 @03:39PM (#14521207)
    Fingerprint scanner locks are totally bogus security anyway. Employers that use them are just stupid technology suckers.

    That said, here's some documentation for that claim, some of which include suggestions for how to easily bypass such systems, perhaps one of them will work for you, although I don't recommend the first one:

    Malaysia car thieves steal finger [bbc.co.uk]

    DHS and UK ID card biometric vendor in false ID lawsuit [theregister.co.uk]

    Unsupervised biometric scanners more toys than serious security [ncl.ac.uk]

    Impact of Artificial Gummy Fingers on Fingerprint Systems [schneier.com]

  • You said "my hands are really sweaty." If you often have sweaty hands, this may also indicate that your hands and specifically your fingers are to some degree swollen. In my experience, I've found running your hands under cold water can be a solution to finger print scanner.

  • This is a problem. Here are some ideas. (Score:5, Informative)

    by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday January 20, 2006 @04:27PM (#14521658) Journal

    I've been doing biometrics related stuff for the last several years, and I can tell you that there are a *lot* of people who don't have easily-scannable fingerprints. Many people who do a lot of work with their hands basically keep their fingertips polished smooth. One colleague of mine has a grandmother who quilts a lot and the constant rubbing of fingertips against cloth erases her ridges. A national ID project in Nicaragua (IIRC) ran into lots of trouble because most of the women cook tortillas and frequently grab the hot tortillas with their fingers to flip and remove them, burning their fingerprints off in the process. People who do hard labor often have thick, cracking callouses which cause problems.

    It also appears to be a bigger problem for women than for men, women seem to have naturally fainter ridges than men, and asians seem to have fainter ridges that other races. I've met lots of asian women who have basically no ridges at all.

    Other people have a different problem. Most fingerprint recognition algorithms want to look at some nice whorl patterns, which is where the most identifiable splits and changes in the ridges are found, but this "central" portion is not very centered on some peoples' fingers. For some, it's closer to the fingertip or closer to the knuckle, and I even met one man who got the best readings by tilting his finger about 30 degrees to one side.

    Finally lots of people have problems using fingerprint scanners because they don't know how to use them. "What's to know?" you might think. Actually, you do have to learn how to position your finger on the sensor, and how much pressure to apply. Bad positioning, or too much or too little force, will give you poor scans.

    So, to find a solution (other than getting your employer to fix or get rid of the scanners), I suggest you firse see if you can figure out what the problem is. Some things to look at/try:

    1. Play with positioning. If there's a scanner somewhere that actually shows you the image it scanned, play with that. Look at your finger and figure out where the most "interesting" part is and try to get that centerd on the scanner. Figure out how much pressure to apply so that you get nice, clear ridges that are distinct and well-separated.
    2. Make sure the template is good. When you scan your fingerprint, the scan has to be compared against a template that is stored somewhere. Maybe you didn't get a very good scan when the template was created? Usually, enrollment systems scan your finger multiple times and either combine the results or take the one they estimate to be the "best", but it may be that you still didn't get a good template. Try re-enrolling after you've figured out the ideal way to position your finger.
    3. Think about what you do with your fingers. If your ridges are just very light, perhaps they're not naturally that way. Is there some activity you engage in that wears them off? If so, you might consider stopping that activity. On the other hand, if it's something you do so much that it polishes your fingertips, it's probably something you really like doing (or something you do obsessively...).
    4. Experiment with moisture. It sounds like you're already doing this, but try a few different things.
    5. Consider making a fake finger. If worse comes to worst, it's supposed to be pretty easy to make fake fingerprints, and there are recipes on the web. I've never done it but I've seen it done, and it looks easy. Making a fake will allow you to do whatever it takes to get one really good print from your finger, and then you can just use that. If you need to, maybe you can even use someone else's fingerprint ;-). The security folks may not like this approach, of course, but you can always try pointing out (after you've learned how to do it) that if it's so easy, then their security technology isn't much good anyway.
    • Consider making a fake finger.

      The security folks may not like this approach, of course, but you can always try pointing out (after you've learned how to do it) that if it's so easy, then their security technology isn't much good anyway.

      At many organizations, the security people will definitely NOT like it. Most security people tend to want to play things as strictly by the book as possible. I'm pretty certain that using a fake finger would be a clear breach of policy, and could land you in a HEAP of troub

      • If you MADE the finger, but never actually used it for access, and then showed it to them, demonstrated it, and asked if you could use it as a solution to your problem, they might accept it... but I'd wager that they won't.

        Oh, I'm sure they wouldn't. I thought it was obvious my suggestion was toungue-in-cheek. Now obvious enough, apparently :-)

        Even if you get out of the trouble eventually, you would still be seen as a "troublemaker" by many in security.

        I usually am. That's shy they hire me to des

  • ... that maybe what didn't work was when you registered your fingerprints for the first time, instead of when you try to make the scanner check them ?

    If the original fingerprint was bad, you can put as much shit as you want on your finger, this won't make the scanner think your actual fingerprints match the original one.

    Or am I writing something stupid ? (I've never seen a fingerprint scanner in my life)
  • i'm late on this, but... give yourself a scar on your fingertip. Will add a new feature that the scanner can pick up on.

    (ok, bad idea)
  • All these comments and it didn't occur to a single person to suggest he get new refrence prints taken? Probably the glass was dirty when security took your original prints so now the system dosen't recognze them?

    The simplest answer is often overlooked.

Slashdot Top Deals

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Close