Chess for Kids? 149
cyberbian asks: "My six year old daughter has recently expressed an interest in chess. We have been playing a few games, but I fear that I'm not the best teacher for such a venerable game. Is there any software that the Slashdot community would recommend for learning the mechanics and structures of good chess?"
Kids' chess set (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't say much about software for kids -- my daughter is five and just starting to show an interest, but hasn't started to try to play yet. But I can remember, when I was a kid, I had an instructional chess set that had fairly simple plastic pieces with all the moves for each piece embossed on them.
Something like this [wholesalechess.com] (links directly to an image).
I can remember, even at a young age, my younger brother and I playing together because we could at least shuffle the pieces around without worry about remembering all the rules. Certainly, this doesn't say much for teaching strategy, but I think it could still be a nice set for just keeping the game fun for kids, especially if your daughter might want to play with her friends who might not be as interested by the game.
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:1)
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:5, Interesting)
I would agree with you, if you're the kind of parent who takes the approach that if the child has any tools or toys that can enable some independence then you shouldn't participate with them at all. I was assuming, from the submitter's question, that he/she already had some interest in playing chess with his/her daughter and teaching her the rules.
I think there is an added benefit (at least there was for me) to having a chess set that lets a child include friends who might not have the benefit of someone having taught them the game, or even of getting to play with a younger sibling. For me, it helped it feel more like a game and less like a lesson.
I see little difference here between chess and cards for a six year old. Both are fun and rule/strategy based. You could take the time to immerse your kid in the rules every time they want pull out a deck of cards, but you could also give them a pack of cards to just sit there and shuffle through, or play war with once in a while, without having to worry about strategy and more complex rules.
But also, if you're concerned that having your child just play with the board and pieces, or play with people beneath his/her skill level, will be detrimental for his/her later chess tournaments, then you have a different agenda altogether and it's probably better to spend some money on a tutor.
Personally, I was happy to think that the game was both challenging and kinda fun at that age. But then again, I'm sure there were enough times where I had a chess piece sticking out of my mouth or was busy making the neighing and fighting sounds for the knights.
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:5, Insightful)
Each to his own, I guess.
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:1, Informative)
The common Staunton Chess pieces already reflect the moves of the pieces (to a certain extent). It might help beginners to point out the shapes reflect the moves with most sets:
The Bishop moves diagonally and the top of the piece is slanted.
The Rook moves in straight lines and the top is flat (flat enough to turn upside down and it still stands up).
The Knight has a bent horses head and m
Re:Kids' chess set (Score:2)
Four? As in, Earth-years? And you don't have a tail?
You had extracurricular activities in preschool???
Damn, talk about putting too much pressure on a kid to achieve!
chessmaster (Score:4, Informative)
Re:chessmaster (Score:4, Informative)
Re:chessmaster (Score:2)
Chessmaster requires admin privileges to run! (Score:4, Informative)
I own Chessmaster 9000. I was told by Ubi tech support that the same issue exists with Chessmaster 10.
People are better teachers (Score:5, Insightful)
If your child starts to beat you regularly, then it's time to start finding new opponents. There are some places where people do actually meet and play chess. Take a look around. See if anyone you know plays as well.
Starting to look for software right away is similar to using the television as a babysitter. Yes, the child will learn something, but will also not learn plenty of other things.
Re:People are better teachers (Score:2)
This is Slashdot. I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption.
And with Dad (Score:4, Insightful)
Plus, she's spending time with Mom or Dad. That's more important than anything. She'll progress in her own time.
Re:People are better teachers (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe not the best software for a child but definitely a good one for a grown up. And like the parent said, for now you're still the best teacher there is for your daughter =)
Re:People are better teachers (Score:2)
Re:People are better teachers (Score:4, Interesting)
Even with the advice that he gave me, I am not sure that he ever went all that easy on me. Beating my father was my ultimate goal whenever we played. He would try to explain to me why I lost each time, turning the defeat into a lesson. I do not remember winning until I was at least 14. I lost the game right after that, however.
Now, my father is no master chess player, and for that matter, neither am I. But I think that I learned more from having him teach me than I think I would have learned from a computer. I also think that he taught me how to gracefully handle defeat as well.
The only thing that my console games taught me about defeat, was that I felt a lot better when the controller hit the wall. Damn you Pitfall. You drove me to break more Atari controllers.
Looking back, I am really fond of the time that I spent playing chess with my father. I bet that your daughter will as well.
Re:People are better teachers (Score:2)
Re:People are better teachers (Score:2)
find opponents with similar skill (Score:2)
Re: People are better teachers (Score:3, Informative)
Re: People are better teachers (Score:2)
As a parent, you aren't going to be available every second that the kid wants to play, and sometimes they will want to play/study on their own anyway (I know I did, but then my dad stopped playing me once I could beat him).
ObGoPost (Score:4, Insightful)
Except.. (Score:2)
It's probably easier for a kid to estimate winning/losing in a game of chess. Go's simplicity means you have to do more mental heavy lifting to analyse a position. In chess, discrete units are discrete pieces, but in Go the units are several pieces and may span gaps or interlock black and white stones.
Re:Except.. (Score:3, Informative)
I humbly disagree.
Analogy (Score:2)
Sorry. Didn't mean to blurt that out, it was in my kill ring.
You (Score:5, Insightful)
And if they ARE a prodigy... (Score:1, Insightful)
Easy Question... (Score:3, Interesting)
The best chess game of course is Battle Chess http://www.dosgamesonline.com/index/game/Battle%20 Chess/30/ [dosgamesonline.com]
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Re:Easy Question... (Score:3, Informative)
They just wanted to see the peaces ripping each other appart.
Even without knowing how to play they learned by try.
Later it came Battle Chess 3000 and then Star Wars Battle Chess or something like this.
Today there is Chessmaster 10 which has a kid module that teachs a kid how to play with full 3D animations.
And there is Majestic Chess [sierra.com]. That was created by the original author of Chessmaster and has a really interesting adventure gam
Not a big chess player, but... (Score:2)
Fritz and Chesster (Score:1)
http://www.chessbase.com/shop/product.asp?pid=165& user=&coin= [chessbase.com]
I haven't gotten around to picking up Volume 2, though...
http://www.chessbase.com/shop/product.asp?pid=230& user=&coin= [chessbase.com]
Re:Fritz and Chesster (Score:4, Informative)
As far as the instruction goes, you would serve your kids far better by teaching them yourself, over the board. It's a lot more fun for you too. As long as you can teach the very basics of piece movement, you should be good enough. If you feel the need to suppliment with software after teaching the basics, there is great tactics software for all skill levels; Chess Tactics for Beginners and CT-Art from ChessAssistant come to mind. Teaching strategy with software to a young child, I expect would be a lost cause, though I haven't tried that myself. You're better off learning that yourself or using a professional chess instructor. Jeremy Silman has some good books if you're up to the task of learning yourself. Otherwise call (or visit!) your local chess club and ask for referrals for a good instructor. They may have some sotware to recommend, but will add expert instruction and recommend how to use the software effectively.
Re:Fritz and Chesster (Score:2)
Re:Fritz and Chesster (Score:2, Informative)
I haven't personally used F & C, but I have heard the offensive banter of Fritz 7 first-hand. It's really in poor taste. As far as why no-one cares, that's easy. The world of chess is dominated by men, almost to the point of exclusion. Girls are not encouraged to play serious chess. At my local chess club I've seen precisely one female player out of dozens of pl
Re:Fritz and Chesster (Score:2)
Good introductory game -- Smess (Score:2, Informative)
Give it a try!
Re:Good introductory game -- Smess (Score:1)
Re:Good introductory game -- Smess (Score:2)
Maurice Ashley Teaches Chess (Score:1)
If you can find a copy somewhere cheap (or google it), I'd reccommend it.
the game may only be part of it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Too young but (Score:2)
She could probably start reading it around 8-10 and be ok with it; until then I think it's best to just let her play for fun and don't beat her up too badly.
I started playing around 6 as well, and the one thing that kept me going was playing with my father; I was given many computer programs/games to use but they weren't what made me want to continue. Playing with my dad was the draw.
Just some food for thought.
Spend time with your child (Score:4, Insightful)
-Rick
Re:Spend time with your child (Score:2)
-Rick
Forget software (Score:2)
join a chess club? (Score:2, Informative)
most chess software quite honestly sucks, especially getting it setup to challenge a 5 year old without discouraging them by getting slaughtered over and over.
Software People (Score:1, Troll)
Raising a child is difficult and annoying. They never seem to stop asking questions! Isn't there some computer program (or, if necessary, television show) that will do it for me?
Amateur. (Score:4, Funny)
2. Log 5 year old daughter in as herself (no admin privs).
3. Run program.
4. Get "no disc" error.
5. Run program as admin user.
6. Get "no disc" error.
7. Log in administrator.
8. Game runs.
9. Uninstall game.
10. Log in as daughter.
11. Run installer as admin user.
12. Run program.
13. Get "no disc" error.
14. Run program as admin user.
15. Get "no disc" error.
16. Tell daughter she's adopted.
hello :-) (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:hello :-) (Score:2)
Learn as you teach her (Score:5, Informative)
You should teach your daughter yourself, rather than look for chess software. She'll be able to ask you questions as you go, and it'll be quality time that you can share with her.
I don't know what your level of chess knowlege is, but you could read some books to pick up the basics of tactics and strategy so that you're prepared to teach her. If you begin by teaching her the mechanics (how the pieces move and capture), by the time she's ready to learn basic tactics (pins, forks) and strategy (control the center), you should know enough about these topics that you'll be able to teach her.
I would recommend two classic books for any beginner to read to pick up the basics:
Chess Fundamentals http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1857440730 [amazon.com]
Lasker's Manual of Chess http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486206408 [amazon.com]
These are both considered essential reading for anyone interested in grasping the basic concepts of chess. If read these these (or any other) books on chess strategy, you'll be prepared to teach your daughter for at least a couple of years, and you'll improve your chess as well. If you get to the point where you are unable (or unwilling) to continue studying, and your daughter starts beating you regularly, then she will probably be ready to start reading on her own, or you might want to consider a chess coach at that point.
Re:Learn as you teach her (Score:2)
Re:Learn as you teach her (Score:2)
My daughter taught herself chess this past summer (Score:2, Informative)
Now, she's in the Chess Club at her school, and while she is definitely not the best player out there, she really enjoys the game.
Teach her yourself (Score:4, Interesting)
One thing I've found works well when playing chess (or for that matter, go) with kids is this: interact with them during the game. I don't refrain from talking with them about the game AS it's progressing. Most of the time their strategy is going to be really naive and short-term.. but that's ok. I grin and say things like "oh, you're not getting away with that!" and respond to their moves. If they're about to make a particularly obvious error, I ask if they're sure they want to make the move (and if they want me to, I'll explain why they shouldn't). Also, if I'm setting up some particular attack, I give hints along the way about what they should be worrying about. That way, I don't have to dumb down MY game, but I don't easily defeat them either (which is no fun at all). As time passes, they'll require less and less of your helping hand when making their moves.
If you're successful in achieving that comfortable, interactive environment, you'll find that your daughter really responds to you. It becomes less of a combative game and more of a shared adventure, a little mini-storybook, and that's when kids show the most interest and learn the best. The important thing is to achieve a nice balance between completely disconnecting yourself from interacting with her (professional chess player attitude) and boring her by making it into a lesson instead of a game. Make jokes, have fun, and look at the experience as a way to get some insight into the way your kid thinks. Give her hints and advice when she needs it, leave her alone when she's trying to figure something out herself. Remember, you're playing chess WITH her, not AGAINST her.
If she picks up and runs with it, then she'll figure out how to proceed after she goes past your limits. If she doesn't, then that's fine too, but you got to spend some good quality time with your kid and that's worth a lot all by itself.
-Laxitive
Re:Teach her yourself (Score:3, Informative)
A random google search found: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TeachingGame [xmp.net]
Re:Teach her yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
That's really interesting, since I actually learned that style of play when I was learning go. It's a very enjoyable approach to the game, where you're ostensibly opponents, but fundamentally it's more about exploring the game space than beating the other guy.
Anyway, I brought that approach back to chess, and I find it works really well when you're playing with kids: really provides a fun and relaxed atmosphere.
-Laxitive
How bout (Score:1)
buy a book (Score:2)
Recommendations (Score:1)
Aside from that, you can hire a mentor for relatively cheap. You would only need to pay for 3-4 hours per month to make steady progress (depending on how involved you'd like her to become).
Get her a membership on ICC (www.chessclub.com) and let her play regularly. It's very important to record and analyze your games. Once you've learned the fundamentals of chess tactics
Rephrase the question (Score:2)
Re:Rephrase the question (Score:2)
I went from just knowing the rules on how to move the pieces, to being able to give my adult friends a decent game.
Also look at: http://www.danheisman.com/ [danheisman.com]
Teach her yourself (Score:1)
If you're uncertain of your own abilities (which it sounds like you are), go and get Chessmaster. You use it and then teach her what you've learned. Not only will it help you to play better, but you'll be teaching her, and spending quality time with her.
Kids are spending too much time in computers... (Score:2)
That said, I also recommend you to try Go [gobase.org] with your daughter. I've read it is used in elementary schools in Japan, China and Korea to stim
My Success and Chess Clubs That Suck (Score:5, Interesting)
As I got older, there was a chess club in junior high that had a tournament. I remember being late the first day and beating my opponent before just minutes after sitting down. By the end of the weeks of play, I won and got a nice handmade walnut board with my name on it that I still use for games.
When I became a junior in high school, there was another tournament in the neighboring town. I decided to go and try winning again. But, a big surprise awaited me. Most of the kids in the tournament were not from our local towns, but had travelled from miles away in the city to play. They were all part of a club, with their nice blue hats and specially made t-shirts that made them look more like Special Olympians than chess players.
Their coach was this man in his forties who looked like he hadn't showered in weeks, instead living, eating, and breathing chess. He was completely obsessed with the velvet ropes used to cordon off the players and the amount of talking. Keep in mind that he was yelling at eight year-olds about this, which shows low class on his part.
I sat down from this fat, smug kid who lay there like a blob with his arms crossed and his hat pulled low. As we played, it was clear his experience trumped mine, but he was a complete ass about it. "Hey," he said, "Is 'checkmate' a hyphenated word?"
"I don't think so," I replied. "Why?"
He moved a piece on the board. "Checkmate," he said with a smug, shit-eating grin.
"Tell me, is 'asshole' a hyphenated word?" I said in a slightly loud voice. Greasy-haired coach told me to be quiet. My drive to go off on him was barely abated. I left soon thereafter.
In the end, I found that while chess clubs can be good places to learn the art, I prefer good old dad and my brothers playing against me. I hope my daughter will feel the same when she gets older.
As for the greasy chess coach, well, he was put in check himself and was arrested for suspicion of sexual assault on a minor [greeleytrib.com].
Re:My Success and Chess Clubs That Suck (Score:2)
Re:My Success and Chess Clubs That Suck (Score:2)
Re:My Success and Chess Clubs That Suck (Score:2)
I know the experience (Score:4, Funny)
Thank you. I'm here all week and Joe's grocery down the road has a special on rotten tomatos, so stock up.
Two great chess sites for kids... (Score:1)
The second is Chess.ac [chess.ac]. It's cool for playing Live chess or postal chess.
Kids ask questions. (Score:2)
The first thing, then, is to learn the game yourself. Chess is not that hard - there are only a tiny handful of core strategies and tactics you really need to learn. Above all, don't bother looking ahead - that's not how the really good chess players work, they use combinations and
You could try a smaller version (Score:1)
Should you teach your children chess at all? (Score:1)
I doubt she wants to memorize all... (Score:2)
Re:Should you teach your children chess at all? (Score:2)
Like:
-thinking and focusing for longer than GTA3 requires
-encouraging analysis
-building decision trees
-tracking multiple variables in real time
-watching for your opponent's mistakes
-among many others...
With 'usefulness' as the threshold, you might find that Poker or some other form of high-stakes gambling is your best bet, or you might find no games are suitably useful.
One must spend years memorizing book openings in order to pl
You can do it (Score:2)
I got to spend a lot of good time with my younger sisters as I taught them to play chess at around your daughter's age. Once they had an interest, all I had to do was tell them how each piece moved, then help them by explaining moves for each side. Just a couple of games later, and all I had to do was watch them to make sure they were making valid moves, and occasionally give them pointers when they were losing (or
American Foundantion for Chess (Score:1)
Consider breadth as well as depth (Score:1)
Personally, I think at that age a whole range of experiences is healthy. But feel free to ignore me.
"flick-chess" (Score:1)
easyChess (Score:2)
It introduces the pieces one at a time using basic games, but IMO the real value was that it comes with a 5 (wide) x 6 (deep) board with one of each piece (plus 5 pawns each). Though we moved on to a standard board, we often go back and use the smaller one for fast games. Sometimes a 'real' game can drag on a little too long, so we switch between boards so she doesn't get burnt out. Once she caught me slipping and got me
You + a book (Score:1)
Logical Chess move by move (Score:2)
by Irving Chernev. When I was 8, I learned chess with that book. It's fundamental to know the apertures, and this book teaches them by explaining each move.
You should also buy her a book on endings. Apertures and endings can be memorized. Then it's up to her to do the difficult combination stuff and taking into account the possibilities yadda yadda.
Software is fine for practicing the combinations and helping her develop h
Re:Logical Chess move by move (Score:2)
Arimaa (Score:2)
It was actually designed by a father and son, and it turns out to be "harder"
for computers than chess while more intuitive for organic beings. It should
be playable and enjoyable by anone, not just children.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa [wikipedia.org]
Humans; a better teacher. (Score:1)
The point is, it's much better to learn how to play initially through social means than a computer program. People are more fun and better teachers than computers, in my opinion. After that you can go to Yahoo! chess and learn the i
Chessmaster (Score:1)
Now, sometimes I play with them. And I have also bought t
Software? Please.. (Score:1)
Lego Chess (Score:1)
Chess for Girls (Score:3, Funny)
Chessmaster is very good... (Score:2)
As others are suggesting, together time is most important. But if you're trying to learn, learning from an expert is the best way. So my suggestion would be... pick up Chessmaster, but study _together_. That way, you get to be social, but you can learn properly. You'll probably bo
Majestic Chess (Score:2, Informative)
So long as you're involved in her learning experience, I don't think it matters too much whether your kid learns chess sitting across from you at a real chess board or in a chair next to you playing through the software.
From one parent to another... (Score:2)
Incidentally, chess isn't the only game out there. My daughter has so far learned checkers, backgammon, monopoly, othello, and (the very first one I taught her) Go. All on real physical boards. This is coming from a computer geek family with three machines in the house running Linux ex
Very good website for starting to play. (Score:2)
Games are played as 'correspondence chess' and can take from a few days to a few months to complete.
'Standard' Membership of SchemingMind.com is free, however some restrictions are placed on standard accounts - for example the number of simultaneous games you can play is limited. For unrestricted use of the site, you should consider upgrading to a 'Full' account.
So for free she could be playing online with people who are friendly and happy to help new pla
Battle Chess (PC) (Score:2)
GNU Chess (Score:3, Informative)
I had this one back in the dawn of time, when we had OS2 on a dual boot with 3.11, before I even knew what dual boot was. Hours of fun. On the higher difficulty settings the computer simply cannot be defeated!
At least, I think it was GNU Chess. It looked exactly like it.
Uniformly bad advice (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a lot of bad advice on here. It's great that your daughter wants to learn chess. I have two daughters, 3 and 7, and I'm teaching them the game. My younger daughter asked to play with me this morning (she mostly just sets up the pieces).
First, I'm disappointed that so many posters assumed that there's some hidden meaning in your daughter's interest. I can say from experience that, when my daughters don't feel like playing chess, no promises of quality time will get them near the board. I think it's fair to assume that your daughter is genuinely interested, which is great. Also, if she's interested in chess, don't be afraid to teach her chess. Go is a great game, but there's no reason not to teach her chess.
Over the board play is best for learning chess, as people suggest, but I've found that it's not always the best way to interest my older daughter in the game. I bought Fritz and Chesster [chessbase.com], and she enjoys working with it over working with me. It does a great job of breaking down the game into practical lessons that are fun to play. It may be a bit advanced for your daughter, but I think it's better than using Chessmaster on the easiest level. I have noticed that it's geared toward a male player and a lot of the humor is distinctly Teutonic, but I didn't find it particularly offensive. I think it's probably all you really need for software until she's a tournament player, and it's reasonably priced. I even caught my wife working with my daughter when she got stuck on the king and rook mate. My wife never gets involved in over-the-board games.
I'd also say that, contrary to what others are writing, chess is not easy for a parent to teach, nor is it an easy game in any sense. It's difficult to play on the same level as your kid if you're at all good, my older daughter doesn't want to play with a handicap, and she as soon as she makes a few opening moves, she gets bogged down and confused. I've had some success setting up chess mazes for her, where I sprinkle pawns on the board and she has to move pieces through the pawns. I've also had success getting her interested in puzzles. I can't blame you for looking for ways to supplement her learning.
Don't just buy any chess book. Most chess books, even beginner ones, are written for an adult audience, and you'll have to translate what you're reading into lessons that are appropriate for a kid. Plus, for the poster that recommended Lasker's Manual, it's in descriptive notation. No child or parent should have to deal with descriptive notation. Make sure any book you buy is in algebraic notation.
I can't recommend beginner books for children from my experience, but Chess for Juniors [amazon.com] and How to Beat Your Dad at Chess [amazon.com] are universally acclaimed. I got my daughter Simple Checkmates [amazon.com], and she's able to work through it on her own. Kudos to the person who mentioned Dan Heisman. His Novice Nook [comcast.net] columns are a great resource for beginning tournament players, and he's the author of A Parent's Guide to Chess [amazon.com]. He does online tutoring, and I have a friend who is an online student of his who recommends him highly. I haven't read it, but Susan's Polgar's instruction book [amazon.com] might also be of interest. She's one
from what i gather from my younger brother (Score:2)
personally though i've never been a fan of the idea of actually trying to learn complex strategies for something like chess, its a just a game damnit
Re:YEAH I GOT SOME (Score:3, Funny)
You mean GO_OUT~1.EXE, QUIT_A~1.DLL and PLAY_A~1.COM.
Re:YEAH I GOT SOME (Score:2)
Re:good suggestions all. Here's a few more (Score:1)
Some people don't deserve to live, or at least be part of a community. You, sir, are one of those people.
He said six-year-old daughter. And a sharp mind is better than any game of football you could play with your infantile friends who g