Finding Programmers to Build a Website? 150
jameseyjamesey asks: "I have a really good idea for an Ajax/Web2.0 website, but I have no idea how to code or put it together. I know what HTML, Java, PHP are but I have no idea clue how to code or program. Due to my demanding job, I also have no time to learn how to code. I have the layout, design, options, settings and method of making money all mapped out. Who can I talk to, and where can I go to work with someone to get my website developed and off the ground?"
Craigslist (Score:1, Informative)
But really, wouldn't you rather just hire a slashdotter like me? http://www.reed.edu/~sollaa/ [reed.edu]
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
2. ???
3. Probably not profit... but still. Don't like HTML as a programming language.
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
And not mis-typeset when the TeX community makes a bizarrely huge thing about that particular issue. It's like using void main() in C++; in practice, it very rarely does any harm, but it is incorrect, and using it makes an informed critic wonder what else you do wrong...
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
If JavaScript is a programming language,
U have what we have and U don't have what we don't (Score:2)
What you think that people remember from your short article? I'm afraid that 99% of them remember
Re:Craigslist (Score:3, Interesting)
'A 22 year out of college kid may know how to code some stuff, but they're VASTLY inadequate for medium to large sized projects.'
That's a gross generalization. There are kernel maintainers who are still in high school (last I heard, anyhow). I'm 22 and I've been using PHP to build CMS systems since I was 16, which is coincidentally when PHP 3 came out.
Young != inexperienced
Thanks.
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
I have been writing code for 10 years, in a handful of languages. I thought I was sufficiently skilled, back in the day, and I did get the opportunity to lead a couple of big project during the first dot com bubble.
That being said, I look back on hat experience and see how utterly lacking I was. I learned so much it that time about organizat
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
You haven't been alive long enough to be experienced. Six years isn't much, especially if it's been spent doing one kind of thing in one language.
I've been programming for more than two decades, and I know better than to suggest that I'm particularly experienced. Here's a cold shock: comp sci is simply a larger field than most. You're not going to be experienced until you're 40.
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
The sad thing is that although the generalisation is true a lot more often than not, IME there really are a significant number of exceptions, and it really is a waste when these people can't get the head-start in their careers that their skill merits.
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Re:Craigslist (Score:2)
Sure they can, as long as they can get hired by a decent organisation. The big problem for such people is that they're often competing for jobs with people who have a couple of years of industry experience. To the vast majority of employers, those two years are worth far more on a CV than pretty much any academic, hobbist or internship background. Whether they're worth more in terms of effectiveness once hired is a different question, and for the sort of person we're talking about here, the answer might be
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
You'll find plenty here -- including me (Score:2)
Re:You'll find plenty here (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll do it (Score:4, Funny)
Sweet! A Job!!!! (Score:2, Funny)
HAHA! (Score:2, Funny)
Already bought it on Ebay, so it's not for sale.
Be ready (Score:5, Funny)
India? (Score:5, Funny)
Indiana.
First step... (Score:1)
In the Right Place (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you came to the right place if you're looking for people who can code sites using AJaX / Web 2.0 / XHTML / CSS / JavaScript / Java / PHP / Python / XML / RDF / RSS / iCalendar / etc.
I suspect that pretty much everyone else who reads /. (myself included) can do this for you. Honestly you're going to get bombarded with choices, and the toughest thing for you will be to figure out which ones are even worthy of a second look. As someone who sometimes competes in this arena, I can say from my standpoint that you're at a big disadvantage if you don't understand the tech yourself, as it'll be really hard to tell good work from bad work -- something like graphics design anyone can judge -- something like web programming is a different thing entirely. Get familiar with the W3C [w3c.org] validation tools for XHTML / CSS / RDF / etc. and tinker around with multiple browsers. When you're looking at prospective designers' portfolios, run them through the validation tools and check them with multiple browsers.
Open a phonebook (Score:5, Insightful)
Once you get going, if in fact you ever do, you may find you need to hire people, etc. That's up to you, and basically a constant no matter what. But if you've truly got everything laid out, you can hire one of these companies.
Your problem is that if you are not technically competent, you can't tell a good developer from one that can talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Hiring developers directly is not practical. This is a handicap no matter how you slice it, but this approach minimizes the risk, if you do due diligence on the company you choose.
Oh, and I hate to say it, but it's a good 99% bet in my experience that if you don't know how to code or program, you do not have it all figured out. But hey, it's your dime.
Re:Open a phonebook (Score:2)
1. Outsource to another company, don't hire them directly. Doing this will cost you more per hour (my company charges $75/hour and we're considering a rate increase). You can find developers from $20-$50/hour, too. But hiring a company means you get the resources of their whole team, the accountability of their staff to their bosses/contract, and you avoid paying benefits, insurance, taxes, equipment, and office space. Hiring two developers might cost y
Re:Open a phonebook (Score:2)
I have a similar background to the submitter, but not his problem. I know enough about code that I know I hate it. Anything beyond simple scripting gets tedious. Luckily, I have a smidgen of experience (an intro to C++ class, some db design) so it helps me to know what is "easy" and what is "hard" -- that way I can still talk to about p
Web 2.0? (Score:2)
Ideas (Score:2)
I too have projects that I'm too busy to do, but I'm not experienced enough to draft a legal document which can protect my ideas from developers.
Re:Ideas (Score:2)
Wow, get ready for a truckload of slashdot-powered, super-duper-mixed-premises, philosophically tangled up, utterly nonsensical batch of responses to that. Can't wait to see the smoke coming out of it!
You make a good point, of course. Which is why you'll get flamed.
Re:Ideas (Score:3, Funny)
They won't try to mess with your idea, especially when you're holding those little light sabers in front of a running vacuum cleaner.
DeVry, Other Schools (Score:4, Informative)
You may be able to get some very smart students to work on it. The idea of getting to do something with AJAX and such sounds interesting to me.
Even if you don't have a local DeVry (if you are near a big city, you probably do, check their site: DeVry.edu [devry.edu]), there are almost certainly similar things at other universities (public and private). Even if you can't get it done as a senior project/self study type thing (which would have faculty oversight to make sure it is done right/good design decisions), you could find some bright college students who would be willing to do it for very little money (compared to hiring professional programmers).
Short of that? There are websites that you can have people do your coding for you. You could try something like that, I suppose.
Re:DeVry, Other Schools (Score:2)
Re:DeVry, Other Schools (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DeVry, Other Schools (Score:2)
And as the other reply also said, the ability to point to something on your resume and say "I made that" is HUGE compared to "I took generic programming classes A, B, and C."
Now you say you don't want to hire developers without experience. But if you get any say in who works on yo
Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2)
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2)
He has a problem here. Since he doesn't code, he can't know what is the structure of the site. But he also have a fenomenal business plan (most of them are bu***it, but not all like some people will tell you) and he doesn't want to disclosure it so candidates can know if they can hadle the job.
The advise I can give is to hire a generalist with a solid formation. That will be more expensive than hiring someone who just grasps the technology that he needs, but cheaper than hiring lots of people who doesn't u
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2)
Just having a great idea for business plan isn't worth jack if you're not prepared to talk about it up-front with a potential collaborator. Ask any VC: if you go in with a great idea and ask them to sign a NDA before you talk about it, they'll thank you for your time and show you the door.
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2)
And as soon as they agree to the deal the VC's will demand everybody else working on it sign an NDA. VC's are in demand so they can be jackasses if they want to, and some of them enjoy it. And they're not all lily-white and trustworthy. No doubt some are.
Re:Ajax / Web 2.0? (Score:2)
Here is a hint: Don't trust any VC that you meet with.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Contact Your Local Univesity (Score:5, Insightful)
2 cents,
Queen B
Re:Contact Your Local Univesity (Score:2)
I strongly recommend against this. Although I'm majoring in ECE (Basically EE+CS), I've met far too many CS grads who have no idea how to follow specifications or actually define and program a system.
Web programming is as much about design as it is about programming. I work for a small company, the Kombine group, as a PHP developer. While my jo
Re:Contact Your Local Univesity (Score:2)
Re:Contact Your Local Univesity (Score:2)
You get cheap and eager help (unless there's a project due or finals, or a good party). If you get really lucky you get good help. Regardless you almost never get professional help, and you have to spend alot of time managing the college students. It all depends on where cost is on your requirements list, but programming is no different than any other profession when it comes to experience. Over the
Re:Contact Your Local Univesity (Score:2)
you got no money I guess (Score:2, Informative)
Where are you? (Score:2)
Money (Score:3, Insightful)
Because if you could afford to just pay someone, you could just search google or open a phone book as a number of others have suggested. Personally, I don't do contingency work anymore because the pay is lousy. But if you've got money to spend, I'm sure we could get your website developed and off the ground in a jiffy.
I'll do it (Score:1)
Re:I'll do it (Score:2)
probably never have asked the question...
We can do it. Great price to get your web site. (Score:5, Funny)
My company in India is working to help you develop your web site. We are experienced in all technologies like asp.net and php mysql. We would like you to look at our sites we have done and you will be impressed.
www.microsoft.com
www.slashdot.org
www.amazon.com
www.ebay.com
We will make your site for $40 dollars and it will be ready for you soon. Please contact us by replying to this message.
Sandib Ramakrisnakalisanje
RentaCoder (Score:5, Informative)
I know it's been said before... (Score:1)
But check your local phone book, and look at the local mom & pop ISP section. Chances are that they've got somebody inhouse who does all their web development. I know the folks around here (say www.velocity.net) do pretty good work and have very reasonable rates. Now, most of them have a flat fee AND charge by the hour, so it would be in your best interests to have at least a skeleton of the project completed.
OR, you could check your local trade school or university, see if they've got a web developm
Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:5, Insightful)
And no this is not a troll.
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:2, Insightful)
And no, this isn't a troll either. I'm just citing the fact that 90% of everything is crap, and programmers and web developers both acquiesce to the rule.
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:2)
I still haven't seen a compelling arguement why anybody would make this decision. I recently needed to go find a local professional PHP programmer for a client and they simply didn't exist. All the web programmers had evaluated it and moved on, to perl, Java or Ruby.
There are a *lot* of well-engineered PHP apps out there.
But they run on PHP which is a
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:2)
It means everything if you want to run a project locally.
I know many good PHP developers. You don't. Therefore PHP is a bad technology. Eh?
A statistically significant sample size of good developers were queried and all rejected the (paying) work because it was PHP. I don't have any allegiences and was asking simiilarly agnostic developers. I'd expect somebody called PHPFanboy to know several PHP developers.
Bad system administra
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:2)
I'm not familiar with any campaign, just seeing what flows across my desk.
Security issues with PHP are actually minimal (and comparative to other approaches) if a web programmer knows what they're doing.
By what measure? I'm looking at the fedora security advisories I've had to deal with on this system - 6 security patches for PHP, 1 each for perl and ruby (and it's debatable whether the perl one could affect a web app), and none for python.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Don't hire a web programmer. (Score:2)
Based on available evidence PHP sites are six times more likely to be compromised than perl, ruby or python sites.
The risk multiplier each of us is willing to tolerate will be different. But the only time my server's ever been compromised was via an undiscovered (by the whitehats) PHP hole, so it's getting a chrooted jail pretty soon.
Re: (Score:2)
Lol, not a troll just stupid (Score:2)
Re:Lol, not a troll just stupid (Score:2)
Anyway you're right about the best programmers know many different languages and pick the best one fo
Re:Lol, not a troll just stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
A good photographer prefers a good camera. Sure, they can still do way better with a plastic snappy than an amateur with a top of the line Hasselblad or Sinar. But there's a reason the pro prefers the good camera. Being a professional photographer requires a combination of the artistic skill and the technical skill. What if you need to photograph the front of building of several floor levels high, from ground level? Is your shot going to end up with the building appearing to lean backwards because you
You should just do it yourself. (Score:2)
If you really think this is the coolest idea ever, send it to google. They'll make it for free.
Re:You should just do it yourself. (Score:2)
User group (Score:2)
Well, Possibly in... (Score:1)
Nowhere exact comes to mind though...
Make sure it hasn't been done before (Score:2)
Additionally, there are lots of existing software/web solutions which may provide what you're looking for. You should still get in contact with a "tech geek", but let them see if it's easier to combine/use existing products, rather than re-inventing the wheel. Most often, it's the content that really drives the popularity of a web site, not necessarily how it's d
shameless plug (Score:2)
Here's a sample of something he's done recently:
http://www.prescottregulators.com/ [prescottregulators.com]
Again, it's a shameless plug but he could use a few more clients and you won't find a better price.
Brutal Honesty (Score:2)
Re:Brutal Honesty (Score:2)
This is a troll (Score:5, Insightful)
I love Ask Slashdots when the answer is really to go to the oracle. [justfuckinggoogleit.com]
Honestly, there's web developers near you. We have websites. We know what we're doing. I'll do it if you're in my area - send an email to mudformike at yahoo dot ca and I'll get back to you. Give it to any of the other people who replied. We'll even tell you the language you should actually be doing this in for it to be sustainable.
ps - Web 2.0 is what we in the business call a "buzzword". It doesn't really mean anything and you can't program in it. If a client asked me to "program something up in Web 2.0" my fee would climb by 75%.
Some Thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
The first thing is that you have to remember that good programmers are not alwyas good designers. Good web design is something that really takes a sort of knack to be good at, and there is not a lot of overlap between good designers and good developers. If you manage to find someone who is both a talented programmer and designer, expect to pay a premium. In most cases you will want to higher a designer (and possible even an artist seperate from the designer) to design the site- and then turn over the design to the programmer who will take the static templates and make them alive. While the designer and the programmer can to a certain extent work in parallel, it's important to remember that the design is the critical path because at some point the programmer has to have a skeleton to put the code into.
The other thing that jumped out at me is the specification that you want an AJAX/Web2.0 site. The truth is that if you don't know enough to code the site youself then you really do not have the information to decide the best way to code the site. AJAX and Web2.0 are both very vauge terms in themselves, and chances are that the AJAX parts of your site may only constitute a small part of the overall application. It's important to realize this because if you convince yourself that a project should be done with some combination of technologies A, B, and C then you may end up dismissing a better solution using Technology D, or end up with someone who only knows Technology A and will end up doing you more harm than good in the long run.
Re:Some Thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Some Thoughts (Score:2)
The point is though that AJAX isn't the only choice, and it may not always be the best choice. I know a lot of slashdotters hate Flash, but there are times when it's really the best option. Java applets likewise are sometimes the way to go.
It's also important to remember that "just because you can doesn't mean you should". You
if anyone is near Pasadena, CA.... (Score:1)
Sorry.... (Score:2)
BTW, were are you located? (Score:2)
BTW: Ohio here, will code for food and money.
Email me: tekrat[at]30gigs.killthisreallylongpart.com
Jesus H. Christ - What a puss... (Score:2)
Good thing you don't also have a wife. Or kids. Or family or friends. They take up plenty of time too.
This whole article should be rated "troll." The author is either an idiot or a puss and probably both; it takes a hell of a lot more than an "idea" to make it out there. I'm sure your "employees" will also be impressed with how much faith you have in your idea as you continue to hang onto your day job too.
"10% inspiration, 90%...
The how to not get screwed checklist. (Score:5, Interesting)
2. Ask for rapid prototypes prior to any bids.
3. Ensure that the developers have extensive experience in the business or trade of the solution's realm.
4. Take care to never tie in to any proprietary technologies.
5. Choose the correct tools.
6. Make sure that the people developing the solution are focused on developing the product, not a framework for the product.
7. Know that with modern web development technologies, that product life cycles are completed monthly with milestones weekly.
8. Make sure that the development process is Quality based with regression tests and configuration management.
9. Be convinced that another team can easily manage whats developed at any time.
10. Ensure that requirements are documented to ensure whats to be delivered is well specified and keep engineering documentation light and only updated after major revs because it is constantly changing.
11. Ensure that the project lead is well versed in development AND networking.
12. Start the project by defining milestones and prototype the deliverables so you can easily track performance.
Theres much more to the SDLC depending on the requirements.
I'm not trying to be harsh here . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't sound to me like you've got the cash or experience to quit your day job and manage a to complete a successful software project. Ask yourself honestly what great thing you would contribute to such an enterprise that your "development partners" couldn't do it without you (and "the great idea" and "non-disclosure contracts" don't count).
I'm not trying to be harsh here, but I think you should probably give whatever money you do have to someone else to invest.
Project Management (Score:3, Interesting)
You always start with the Business Case. The Business Case states the objective of the project, the benefits of the project, and importantly how the money is going to work.
You need to map out the costs of the project. Consider the hosting costs, development costs, advertising costs, and your time!
You can even have a few different models - consider that the development might cost twice as much as you think!(IT projects always seem to cost twice as much as what was in the Business Case)
The Business Case also incorporates how you are going to make money. How long will it take to re-coup the project cost.
You also need to map out the delivery time for each portion of the project. Have at least monthly milestones (or weekly if you can)
Very very often your great idea doesn't look so hot once its all mapped out like this. At this point you make the decision to bank roll the idea or not. Let your wife look at it, and also maybe someone you admire for their business skills. They will give you feedback about your idea.
You idea doesn't have to make your rich - sometimes its just great to do something interesting!!
As for finding developers - again thats a question that I find very simple. All you have to do is hire one ! Good ones will charge at least $100/hour. It seems like a lot to you but when you are free lancing 1/2 your time is chewed up finding work. Most consulting firms charge 3 times what they pay to the worker. Thats just how the $ works out.
Go for someone local, interview a few people and find someone YOU can work with.
You have to be upfront about the contract. (Yes - you have to write a contract with this person). It can just be 1 A4 piece of paper with your company logo and details. YOU own the code! For $100/hour YOU own everything that they do - and they have to give you all source code. Give them 20% up front to get them started. On the first protype (at least most of the major functions should work) give them another 40%. The rest on delivery once you have checked everything works.
Once the site is up and running you are going to want to make changes. The best person to do this is coder you just hired. So keep a good relationship with this person. At this point you are probably going to hire them by the hour. Write down all the changes you want and get them to tell you how much each will cost. That way you can prioritise your upgrades. (This is called benefit analysis).
Where to find a geek... (Score:2)
I go there all the time for short and long term coding projects. Just write up what you are looking for and they will come find you.
Why Ajax? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why Ajax? (Score:2)
Ajax and web standards are orthogonal. Web standards relate to what amounts to a gentlemen's agreement between parties: one writes their html and css a certain way and a contemporary browser will render it in a consistent and generally understood way. It's all about how the web page presents and is structured.
Now I've not used Ajax, but I've written a few small jsp/tomcat web applications, and I think I understand what issue it addresses.
When designing an application with user interaction, user input freq
Re:Why Ajax? (Score:2)
Here's the numero uno reason to use Ajax over whatever else there is in the world (Java...): light-weight asychronous data transfer, used towards tightening user interaction and feedback.
Read the original article if you still don't get it. http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/ar chives/000385.php [adaptivepath.com]
PS - While I make no claims to my p
Similar question... site profit as pay? (Score:2)
Do any programmers work for future profits anymore? I don't care to make a dime on the sites, I just want them to exist and have a way to cover their expenses (Google ads would more than suffice, I b
Comment removed (Score:3)
How much? What grade of coding? (Score:2)
Here's the issues/problems:
- cost.
- quality.
- features.
First off, do you know what you want? Was this something that was going to be enterprise grade and can handle a good number of visitors or is this something that you just want created for the heck of it? Do you have money to pay the person to develop it? And if you do, do you have enough to include all of the features
Re:its simple (Score:4, Interesting)
1: phonebook
2: google
I would add:
3. http://scriptlance.com/ [scriptlance.com]
It depends what you want. Do you want to sit down with someone and talk over needs? Call some local ISPs and ask them for recommendations.
Do you want to find a big company on the internet to help you? Google has plenty. Hint: pick a few tasks you need to perform and search Google for how to do them. Contact the authors who give the best examples.
Are you willing to risk a little? ScriptLance has a large number of people who are qualified to do the work. You will have to wade through the sludge though.
If you are really brave, you could post your contact info here. There are certainly qualified web designers who post on slashdot. Heck, a year ago, I would have bid on this. Sounds fun.