Your Experiences with Recruiters? 165
companyAdvocate asks "I work in a small, high end IT consultancy. We are currently on a large recruitment drive and our targets are very ambitious. We are looking into alternative, original and cost-effective ways of hiring talented people. Google's billboard ad comes to mind. As we are a consultancy, we need good communicators as well as techies and raising the company profile may be an added bonus. What is the Slashdot community's experience with alternative recruitment methods? Were you hired in an exciting or interesting way? How do you make even rejected candidates leave with a positive impression?"
Viral Marketing (Score:1)
I have an idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I have an idea (Score:1)
Re:logical fallacy (Score:1)
Nice troll, but if logical fallacy was indeed present in my comment, it would have little to do with my UID -- as I did not mention the UID as grounds for my hiring.
Re:logical fallacy (Score:2)
How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:5, Funny)
Two weeks pay would be nice.
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:2)
Fast forward 2-3 weeks and I get the following letter from the company, bolding added by me for emphasis:
Dear [my name]
Thank you so much for taking the time to interview with [company]. We appreciate your effort and want to send
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:2)
Many companies want professionals but aren't professional in their hiring practices. Which is pretty stupid. These same people (rejected applicants) are likely to be in a position (eventually) to chose whether to do business with those companies.
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:2)
Treat their time as if it's as valuable as yours is, because it is.
Absolutely Positively! The absolute worst are headhunters and HR departments that advertise jobs when all they really want to do is stuff a file with resumes 'just in case'. They freely wast job seeker's time and energy. After a few of those, lack of feedback from any interview will be considered another one of these leeches.
Another good way to leave a good impression is to be prepared to sell the position to the cantidate as well (if
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:2)
By far the weirdest was (this is more or less an exact quote). "Hi, we would like you to know that we thought your interview went well and we think you would be excellent for the position. However, another candidate is further a long in the process and has already had 2 interviews. If he doesn't work out, would you be avaliable?"
When companies
Re:How do you make even rejected candidates... (Score:2)
How I got my job (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How I got my job (Score:2)
Look at on-line forums, Usenet, and so on? (Score:3, Interesting)
You could try identifying good people in on-line discussion forums, Usenet groups, etc. There you can immediately gauge not only a person's technical knowledge, but their ability to convey it in writing.
How you then approach them is a different question, of course. For example, I do post to various technical Usenet groups, and I've always assumed that's where the headhunters found me one day. Personally, I was mildly flattered, and I did sent them a polite reply declining their offer (since I had no interest in moving to where the job was based). However, I can imagine that others might not be so charitable about unsolicited e-mails these days.
You could always try leaking the name of your company later in this story. You're not short of geeks who know their stuff around here, so all you have to do is get rid of the 95% who can't right too safe they're lifes, and your problem's solved. :o)
Re:Look at on-line forums, Usenet, and so on? (Score:1, Funny)
You must be new here. Those are the same exact things.
Re:Look at on-line forums, Usenet, and so on? (Score:2)
Re:Look at on-line forums, Usenet, and so on? (Score:3, Funny)
Just curious...
-nB
Re:Look at on-line forums, Usenet, and so on? (Score:2)
It's a shame you can't mod posts (-1, Ironic)... :o)
"Alternative"? To what? (Score:4, Insightful)
If that's alternative, so be it. Get in front of actual people. Go to social events. Attend symposia. Lift a glass or two. Get to know individuals as human beings. Watch them when they are interacting with others - not just you. Don't talk to people you might want to hire with a desk in between you.
Let people get to know you. Be accessible.
Get out there, for catssakes! What's keeping you? What the hell are you asking us for? Go! If you don't have a network already, you're behind. If you have one but it's not actively working for you, you're behind.
Just a guess here, but I think you're behind.
Word of mouth (Score:3, Insightful)
And you only know so many people in the business - and they only know so many - that the pool of competent and availabl
Re:"Alternative"? To what? (Score:2)
That's real good advice, especially when not 3 sentences later you're telling him to use them as if they were some crass job-hunting mechanism. Get to know them, pretend to be friends, so you can use them. Haha.
Re:"Alternative"? To what? (Score:2)
My current job started as a contract and has morphed into a Real Job (TM), ie, holidays, sick days, superannuation. The first time I applied for it I still had my date of birth (1950) in my resume, and didn't even talk to the pimp. The second time it was advertised, I sent in a resume which didn't tell them how old I am, and I got an interview. I got there about 30 minutes late (caught in traffic - in Adelaide for fucksake! We don't have traffic problems here as a rule) and immedi
Re:"Alternative"? To what? (Score:3, Funny)
Is your resume padded, or are you just happy to see me?
locality (Score:4, Interesting)
IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:5, Informative)
The project manager (who was a senior programmer) was the one who interviewed me.
This was very personalized, and the whole recruitment process made me feel appreciated and worthy. This isn't something many companies give.
Re:IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:4, Insightful)
In a company where I was recruited, they had an IQ test and a programming test (SQL + general algorithms).
I had one of those companies try to recruit me about a decade ago. I wasn't looking for a job, but decided to check it out just out of curiousity. My interview was with the senior manager and one of the division directors. At the end of the interview, I was informed that I needed to take an "aptitude test." I couldn't believe it. They'd called me, not the other way around. They were recruiting me because of my skills, training, and experience - and they want me to take an aptitude test?! I turned down the job.
I could see doing this with a new person, right out of college or without experience. If you're recruiting experienced people, all you're going to do is antagonize them - particularly if you spring that requirement on them at the interview.
To the original question, about what you can do to leave a good impression with the unsuccessful candidates, I'll give the following tips:
1. Let them know they didn't get the job.
2. Tell them in a timely fashion. At the very least give them a time frame in which to expect your decision.
3. Let them know why (in a nice fashion) you decided not to hire them, and (if possible) what they could do to make themselves more attractive to your company in the future.
I've been on both sides of the desk - as an applicant, and as the one doing the hiring. One thing I made a decision was to try to never do the things that drove me nuts as an applicant, when I was the one doing the hiring. For the most part, I succeeded.
Re:IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:2)
Re:IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:2)
The answer, amusingly enough, was no. Guess my distate at being poked and proded showed.
Re:IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:2)
Let's not forget letting them know the REAL reason why they didn't get the job.
The most ruthless pass-over I was ever subjected was when after a positive interview the interviewer told me that they'd had come candidates who had more experience than me. I can deal with that, but later I found out that the guy who got the job had spent le
Re:IQ test + programming abilities test (Score:2)
After about 15 minutes, he'd come back and say that they were having a big problem. The candidate could wait or leave.
If the candidate left, he'd b
Reading and Tinkering (Score:3, Interesting)
I could see hiring the ones who read the manuals, but do you really want someone who's willing to mess with possibly mission-critical equipment on which they don't have training, and out of boredom?
Ours, we've shown them the full range of operations in the labs and then given them a few practical hardware and software problems. You know, simple things like factors that might be causing a bad signal in a piece o
ask slashdot! (Score:1)
IT Recruiters Are Worthless (Score:3, Informative)
Of all the recruiters I've dealt with (at least 20), not one has even gotten me an interview.
Being a web developer who actually knows (X)HTML, I was once hung up on by a recruiter when I told her I don't use Dreamweaver. A year later, I start seeing job postings where DW experience is a disadvantage.
But, a recruiter is sometimes only as useful as the requirements they get. 10 years of .NET experience? 15 years of J2EE? The list of absurd requirements goes on and on.
As for one alternative, post on Cragslist [craigslist.net] in your area. Monster and Dice are becoming less and less useful as time goes on.
Re:IT Recruiters Are Worthless (Score:2)
Re:IT Recruiters Are Worthless (Score:2)
Kind of like asking for a poet who can use Word.
Re:IT Recruiters Are Worthless (Score:3, Insightful)
Interestingly, my new job (6 months) was obtained through a recruiter who, frankly, worried me when we met for the first time, for breakfast right before I went for an onsite interview. He commisserat
Re:IT Recruiters Are Worthless (Score:2)
Do not use Word (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do not use Word (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Do not use Word (Score:3, Insightful)
While I can agree that a UNIX sys admins skills should not be focused on Word, that is one of the format that companies use. While I bet many of the companies that hire the sys admin might not really care, most recruiters/head hunters want the word doc. They are going to put their header on top of your resume before passing it on to a company. So in the end I don't think it's a waste or unessecary to have a resume in Word that looks presentable.
Re:Do not use Word (Score:2)
I think that you're missing the GP's point. It's not that Word documents are inappropriate for sending to the hiring company; it's that asking the potential hiree for a word document is useless in evaluating the quality of a unix sysadmin.
The recruiter
Make fun events, contests, (emp/applicant) mixers (Score:4, Interesting)
A good alternative would be to hold a contest of some sort. Let potential job applicants put together solutions, write software to solve a simple, fixed problem. Give the most successful applicants some incentives (other than just a job): perhaps some small cash prizes; something interesting like a nice gadget; perhaps some interesting prestige like a listing in some neat place on a web page or a brochure.
How might you leave rejected candidates leave with a positive impression: First and foremost, make decisions in a fairly quick period of time. Don't leave folks hanging out there for long periods. Also, tell the rejected applicants what it was that was good about the applicant. Perhaps let the person know on what they could work to make themselves more attractive to the type of position for which they applied (in other words, help them in their future employment quests).
Hiring communicative technical people is a special challenge: It is generally better to hire someone who has experience, and a great attitude and excellent human communications - even if they don't have all the super-duper "on-paper" skills for which you might be looking. Exciting ways to be interviewed and recruited: Throw a celebration focused on your company, bring your most fun and interesting people to the party, then invite lots of possible applicants. Mix it up with the folks, have some free poker games (not money gambling, just plain chips with door prizes, etc.), no booze, just great snacks, good music, and lots of chairs and tables where people can sit down and pitch the company or pitch themselves as applicants. Make it fun, advertise it in key places in the country. Don't be afraid to fly extremely interesting candidates out to your party...
Every nickel you spend on getting face-time with applicants is well spent... make lots of fun and interesting ways to attract applicants to your meetings...
Forget tests or interviews, ... (Score:3, Informative)
So talk to them and you will get suggestions, if you find really talented people, don't try to embarass yourself with tests and interviews. Talk to people they worked with, talk to them casually and talk to their references, you get much better picture and comming with offer because you know this is the right person, without resorting to tests and tricky questions on interviews, leaves a lot of positive impression.
If my employer had the smarts to come up to me and ask, I could name easily ten people who could each replace 2-3 average employees I meet with at my company. Of course, most of them already have a job and would need some incentive to come on board or relocate, but its alwasy worth it to employ one exceptional worker rather than five average. And they often get the same amount work done. Often its cheaper even if you'd pay them double salary, which you probably won't.
Complete and total Liars (Score:3, Insightful)
Ask people (Score:2)
Ask people, people who may be happy with their jobs currently, who they think the best people are. Agressively recruit these people yourselves. Considering how much of a cut a recruiter usually takes, you can get talented people yourself for what you were going to pay. Plus you get people that you know can work with others.
Never hire based soley upon qualifications. Always get people recommended by good people. You have a much better chance of getting someone great. Worst case, you get someone compete
How to leave positive impression... (Score:3, Insightful)
I interviewed with a company called HopOne located in Seattle the day after Thanksgiving last year. I thought the interview went really well and I was both excited about the position and confident I had nailed the interview. I was told they would let me know their decision by the following Friday. To this day I have yet to hear a single word from them reagrding the position despite several follow up e-mails and phone calls. They have totally ignored me and couldn't even muster the common decency to let me know anything one way or the other regarding the position. That should be an excellent example of what not do do if you wish to leave a psoitive impression. My impression of HopOne has been severaly tainted and I can't say I recommend them in any sort of a positive way. I also hope that in some way instant karma pays back all of the principles involved.
I also interviewed with a recruiter once who told me, "I love your credentials, and if none the 3 candidates I've currently got interviewing for this position today pan out, I'll be happy to submit your resume." (This was after insisting that I drive 50 miles each way that very day to rush to interview with him as soon as posible. It turned out it was just so he'd be ready to send someone else right away if needed.)
My point with both of the above examples is that I am fine with not being the one selected for a job I have interviewed for. Simply let me know that you've gone with someone else and show me a little respect during the process.
Showing just a little common decency and respect doesn't seem to be asking for very much...
how to leave a positive impression (Score:3, Informative)
Re:how to leave a positive impression (Score:2)
Incentives (Score:4, Insightful)
my list... (Score:5, Interesting)
Intel - they give noctoriously hard questions, with 3 rounds of interviews. but there were simple interviews where they only asked about course projects and not too much textbook material in too much depth. in the latter case, there was only 1 interview round before the candidate was hired.
Xilinx - phone screen - basic textbook material. onsite: presentation. multiple full day interviews based on in depth textbook material. the onsite was probably 20 times more difficult. Interviews were disorganized. They had a list of questions that they go through and some of them were repeated from one interviewer to the next. This was in the valley and some of the people seemed to have attitude and ego problems, and didn't like to listen to your answer when are multiple solutions to the interview question. The group looked like zombies, probably from all the overtime shifts.
Analog Devices - the campus onsite interviews are a complete waste of time. they're basically for PR purposes whether they're planning on hiring or not for the year. Questions they ask are generally simple, but I hear onsite interviews are always challenging. Recruiters at the career fairs are always excellent and informative. Company slide presentations are always disorganized - but we were engineering students - who really cares anyway
Teradyne - Campus onsite interviews are usually given by aluminus of the university. I have a theory that their company is sending these folks for interviewing is because these are the ones that have nothing else better to do at work - i.e., they can afford to send the non productive ones for these events... At the career fair, almost all of the recruiters think you don't know anything about the field and go through the whole process explaning everything. Perhaps it's their strategy - holding up a queue at their booth so it looks like they're generating a lot of popularity and interest! Some of them don't even know what they're talking about after working there for a couple of years.
NVidia - this one's the worst. They used to show up at the career fair and flat out refused people's CV right at the spot if their GPA is below 3.5. They would ask up front and basically tell you to buzz off if you "don't have what it takes". I know of someone who worked there as an intern and he basically had to go through their insane work hours. Oh, what happens to the ones that get past that absurd GPA screening? They sit you down at the back of the booth, and basically ask you technical problems which would take up to over an hour.
Synopsys - Very reasonable interviews. They ask really good questions and are not there to find out what you don't know, but what you do, and to really see what you're capable of. They're interested in seeing your thought process and would give you slight nudges in the right direction to see whether you catch on.
Anyway, my current job was found through monster. I had my interview, signed the offer and began work just within 9 day of submitting my application online. I'll not name the company here, but interview process was very reasonable, (see Synopsys - very similar). Very humane people and you had a sense of the great people you would be working with if hired. After graduating, it took me 3 months of job search before I found the job.
Amazing work environment - but that'll be for another time and a different story
Re:my list... (Score:2)
VMWare - Six 30 mi
My contracts come through carter-jones.biz (Score:2)
What I like about them is that they actually really listen to what you want. Maybe that will chang
Nearly worthless (Score:2)
At work, I think we've used 2 different recruiters to bring people in. We'd get a stack of 5 resumes at a time and could immediately throw out at least 4 of them because they didn't match what we asked for. Then we'd get callbacks from the recruiter asking why we weren't interviewing these people and what we were looking for. I mean, we'd ask for a C++ unix person wi
Recommendations (Score:3, Interesting)
Be honest. If you aren't, it will show in everything you say and and you will get applications from dishonest people, who will make your life miserable.
Be trustworthy. If you say or imply you will do something, do it. People who are analytical enough to do well in a technically demanding job are analytical enough to be aware if you are mentioning one thing but doing another.
Of course, being trustworthy is one aspect of being honest. However, so many companies have difficulty with creating trust that it deserves to be mentioned separately.
Look for people who communicate well. Every job requires interaction with other people. If you find someone who isn't good at communicating, you have found someone who fundamentally doesn't like working with other people. Such a person drives up costs in ways that are difficult to measure.
Advertise on Slashdot. Many very smart people read Slashdot. When someone replies to your ad, ask for their Slashdot ID. That and a Slashdot subscription will give you access to all their comments. A good way to judge the maturity of a candidate is to see how he or she communicates in casual circumstances like a Slashdot discussion.
Seek a reputation for being warm and friendly, and deserve it. If you have a good reputation, eventually your ad budget can be cut to one-tenth of what it was when you were beginning, because people will hear about you from friends.
Be charitable. Try to give every applicant something valuable in return for applying. Useful feedback is a excellent gift. Even a well-written discussion of the job market on your web site is a gift.
Remember, many of the candidates who didn't quite have what you needed this year will have had growthful experiences and will be excellent candidates in future years.
Don't waste anyone's time. Make sure your business processes are efficient.
Your comment is illogical and disrespectful. (Score:2)
However, there are also many very knowledgeable people posting useful comments.
Whether Slashdot comments would be a useful evaluation system does not depend on the quality of any Slashdot discussion, or on the moderation system. It depends only on the maturity and ability to communicate of the person who posts the comments. Each person has 10
Mostly bad experiences (Score:2)
The final straw was my last dealings
Blogs, Extracurriculars, and Grad Students (Score:2)
The most powerful thing to do is to make your company attractive to prospective employees. This is, unfortunately, something difficult for a recruiter to control. You can make the company look bad, but it's hard to make it look better than it is. Because you are on
Dice.com (Score:2)
Fancy alternative hiring methods? WHY? This is a business, not a game show. Yes it's true that word of mouth, and employee references are an even better way to bring people in, but you can't count on it when you need
Followup (Score:2)
Also, the less you treat employees like cattle the better. That might work on campuses where there are thousands
Joel on Software (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that many companies have learned the secret of that last point. The best people have jobs already, for the most part. If you really want exceptional people, don't wait for them to show up at your door with a resume, find out who they are and who they work for, and then hire them away. Offering them more money will not convince them (though obviously you should offer a bit more than they're making now), but the opportunity to have more creative control over their job might.
Re: (Score:2)
Not a slashdot link traffic whore -- My Experience (Score:2)
I've generally had bad experiences with recruiters. I also would like to mention I'm new to the whole notion of recruiters, as they weren't nearly as prominent out west, where I'm from, as they are in more populated areas, like Michigan (where I'm at now).
How I got my current job (Score:2)
One vote against (Score:2)
Anyway, my field is pretty small, so it's a worker's market. As such, I felt comfortable with a verbal contract, despite the fact that I'd be, essentially, selling everything I owned and moving halfway around the world, twice: First to go to "inprocessing" in Houston for a few weeks, then on to my final destination.
Treat Applicants with Respect and LISTEN (Score:2)
Second, when someone goes to the trouble of making your life easier (say, by writing a resume weblication that spits out a resume in any form you want), take the time to use it. I can't believe that a "Click here to download as a
Re:Treat Applicants with Respect and LISTEN (Score:2)
What I'm going to think is, "wow, this guy can't follow simple directions, and thinks he knows what I want more than I do."
That's a show-stopper right there; I never even get to see your resume.
If, however, you put a URL on your resume, expect to see some hits from me; I want to get to know what makes you tick; it'll help me determine if you fit in with us or no
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
I never bother sending CVs to places in Word format. If I'm job-hunting, electronic versions go in well-presented HTML/PDF formats, but I'm probably printing and sending my CV with a proper covering letter to anyone I care about anyway. If a business says something stupid like "Submit CV in Word format" on their recruitment page, I usually don't bother reading any further, because the working environment and staff attitudes that simple request betrays are not things I care to be associated with.
Re:Beware of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Beware of plain text! (Score:3, Informative)
However, if you create your PDF file using a tool like PDF995 which ac
Re:Beware of plain text! (Score:2)
Re:Beware of plain text! (Score:2)
What you say may be technically true, but I doubt any recruiter will go to the trouble of editing a resumé in any format other than Word. Few people have Acrobat Pro installed on their desktop machine, and even if they did know how to edit the file otherwise, the
Re:Beware of plain text! (Score:2)
I don't know about PDF995 specifically, and don't have a windows machine to test it on, but all the printer driver pdf tools I have ever used preserve the text, including a shareware windows one I used several years ago at work. Saving it as an image would be incredibly inefficient, and would make the program completely unusable for anything over a few pages at any decent print resolution.
A postscript pr
problem (Score:2)
if you send them a PDF, sure, they can store it on the network, but they can't (as an example) readily search through them all for certain skills, or copy and paste the contents readily into another application.
certainly where i work, agencies attempting to supply contractors will be doing it all electronically - and if someone just supplies a paper CV or
Re:Beware of this (Score:1)
My favourite tale is about a job ad I answered. It was a re-advertised position, so the ad was already done. The recruiter had - in his own words - spoken to the client for about fifte
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
CVs (Score:1, Interesting)
* In the United States, a Curriculum Vitae ("CV" or "vitae") is "a comprehensive, biographical statement emphasizing your professional qualifications and activities." It is not our standard resume but a variation provided only when specifically requested, usually in pursuit of an academic or research position. (Check the information from the Colorado College Career C
Re:Or ... like the top of mine says ... (Score:2)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2, Insightful)
Resumes submitted in Word format are immediately deleted unread -- the applicant is unable to follow a simple instruction. Test #1: FAILED.
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
That's what you asked for, right? Plain text?
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
Perhaps you mean to only use one font?
Just look at it on the screen. It's plain text.
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
I bet you lose out on a lot of good people.
Re:Beware of this (Score:1)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
I hope you see the irony of this statement, given the parent post's explanation of their screening process.
Re:Beware of this (Score:3, Insightful)
You people really need to loosen up a bit. It's a diverse world out there and you're seriously going to miss out on some great opportunites if you keep playing the "my rules or else" game.
If anything, it just shows that you're a stubborn prick or a control freak.
Re:Beware of this (Score:1)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
They asked for plain text or PDF. Open, standard formats. If you send in your CV in some bizarre incompatible unreadable proprietary format, you're implicitly requiring the company to
1) get hold of whatever weird software reads that format
2) if necessary, get hold of the OS required to run that software
3) convert your CV into a usable format
4) and then read it
You think you're going to be looked on favourably
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
They asked for plain text or PDF. Open, standard formats. If you send in your CV in some bizarre incompatible unreadable proprietary format,
If, as the grandparent wrote, the job requirement specified text or PDF, submitting it in Word format shows an inability to follow directions and is reason for exclusion. Though in all my searching, I don't recall running across any jobs that requested PDF format, the fact
Re:Beware of this (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Beware of this (Score:2, Informative)
3) "Interested in a one millisecond contract job in <some city a thousand miles away>?"
2) "Maybe you know some people who might be interested in new opportunities?"
And the #1 experience:
"Can you please forward me a copy of your resume in Word format?"
A notable experience I've never had with a recruiter? Getting a job via one.
Why do they always want a Word version of your resume? When I was last looking and got contacted, I'd just point them to my online r
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
# cp Nato_Welch_resume.txt Nato_Welch_resume.doc
There. One resume in
I've also thought about sending people who don't take links an html mail with an iframe that points to the published URL.
Re:Beware of this (Score:2)
Re:Recruiters (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Freaky (Score:2)
Re:Freaky (Score:2)
(I'm not trolling, she really did hear her recruiter admit to that in front of a whole Northern Virginia radio audience)
Umm.. wow. I guess I'll never be visiting northern Virginia if someone admiting vibrator use is so shocking that you might consider it a "troll". Try to get out more buddy, there's more to life than extreme religious beliefs.
Re:Freaky (Score:2)
Re:Start with an AskSlashdot (Score:2)