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Graphics Hardware Hacking Software

Igniting a Programmed Fireworks Display? 70

Posted by Cliff from the explosions-from-your-keyboard dept.
seg9585 asks: "I am interested in setting up a programmable fireworks display this New Years, and I was wondering if anyone from the Slashdot community had any advice as to how to set one up easily, inexpensively, and safely by someone with little experience with electronics/wiring. I do have a VEX controller which I can use for digital output, but I would rather not have to buy a ton of relays and create a spark by just shorting out the circuit. Is there a better way to do this?"
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Igniting a Programmed Fireworks Display? More

Igniting a Programmed Fireworks Display?

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  • Please move along or buy real ones :|

  • Get a professional (Score:5, Insightful)

    by scheme ( 19778 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:18PM (#17239338)

    I'd suggest getting a professional to do it or having a professional teach and supervise you. Fireworks are essentially explosives so I'd be very cautious.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anne_Nonymous ( 313852 )
      You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

    • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'd suggest getting a professional to do it or having a professional teach and supervise you. Fireworks are essentially explosives so I'd be very cautious.
      I, on the other hand, suggest you go for it. Can you imageine, you could be the 1st Darwin nominee of 2007!!!

    • Re:Get a professional (Score:4, Informative)

      by Dion ( 10186 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @03:49PM (#17242572) Homepage
      I'm sorry but that has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

      He's not asking for a way to set of handgrenades and claymores here.

      What he wants is to set off normal, legal fireworks (well that's what we have to assume anyway), doing that electronically is much safer than doing it with the old cigar as most people do.

      I'd suggest using a short length of constantan wire (5cm or so) wrapped around the fuse, you need a lot of current, but that will ignite the fuse every time.

      You can also get some non-fireproof (duh) 1/4W resistors, experiment to find a good size (10Ohm perhaps) that give a good flame when hooked up to 12V, then solder the resistor to the wires and tape the resistor to the fuse.

      Do make certain that noone is near the fireworks when you set them off, however, getting hit in the face with a rocket isn't much fun.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by chucken ( 750893 )
        He's not asking for a way to set of handgrenades and claymores here.

        Hmm. Am I to assume that you think that fireworks (in particular starburst terminating ones) aren't in effect just high explosives? Do you think that being close to a starburst wouldn't fuck you up big time?

        What he wants is to set off normal, legal fireworks (well that's what we have to assume anyway),

        Because it's legal, it must necessarily be safe? Tell that to all the scarred/burned/dead people.

        doing that electronic

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Dion ( 10186 )
          Look; if you can set off fireworks safely with a cigar then you can set it off just as safely electronically.

          If I could be bothered to buy fireworks then I'd most likely set it off electronically, mainly to be at a good distance for viewing.

          You'd need to take some primitive precautions to avoid having the controller ignite prematurely, but it's easily handled by a large switch on the main power feed.

          If you turn off the power before getting near the fireworks then it's no more dangerous than when transportin

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by chucken ( 750893 )
            Look; if you can set off fireworks safely with a cigar then you can set it off just as safely electronically. I disagree. I think that any system that has inherent dangers in it tends to be made more dangerous by adding complexity, and adding electronics for ignition is adding complexity. You'd need to take some primitive precautions to avoid having the controller ignite prematurely, but it's easily handled by a large switch on the main power feed. It's hard to know if people (including the the OP) are v
        • Because it's legal, it must necessarily be safe? Tell that to all the scarred/burned/dead people.

          Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's not safe. M80s are perfectly safe when used properly, just as you can severely injure yourself with a kiddy sparkler. I have no sympathy for people who hurt themselves with fireworks because it's there own fault for being careless, just as I would expect no sympathy if I hurt myself while doing something stupid. In fact, I wish further harm on them if they then try

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by chucken ( 750893 )
            M80s are perfectly safe when used properly

            If that's the case, they've completely failed as a weapon then.

  • Solution (Score:4, Funny)

    by j00r0m4nc3r ( 959816 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:21PM (#17239390)
    I have a solution, but it involves midgets, whipped cream, and a tazer gun. Email me for info.

  • Model Rocket Igniters (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:21PM (#17239406)
    Have you considered using model rocket engine igniter? They're cheap, powered by electricity, and provide a decent flame.

    Also, I am in no way liable for whatever you do here.
  • I like to tamper with the Ariane guidance software just prior to launch.

  • Model rocketry (Score:5, Informative)

    by EnderGT ( 916132 ) <endergt2k.verizon@net> on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:22PM (#17239412)
    You could try using the igniters used in model rocketry instead of depending on a spark. They come cheap and are available at almost any hobby shop. They require only a low voltage current to ignite, if I remember correctly. Should be easy to burn a few to determine average timing delay, and then set up a timing script to control the display. Although I would definintely recommend going the professional route if you have any doubts at all of your competencies.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by ec_hack ( 247907 )
      A few pointers - I've been a model rocket flyer since the mid 60s.

      Be very careful with modle rocket igniters - the modern ones do require very little current to ignite, which means that your circuits need to be designed right. There are other types of igniters that take even less current, so be cautious if you use them.

      I'd suggest that you check the archives of the Usenet group rec.pyrotechnics for pointers to safe techniques. There are amateur pyrotechnic groups that do very impressive shows.

      I'd also be ca

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Noxx ( 74567 )
      Didn't they impose restrictions on the purchase of ignitors/engines? I seem to remember something post-911 about new anti-terrorism laws which would affect the model rocketry industry, but never heard anything further. I have no links to back this up, just something that bubbled up to the top of my magic 8-ball memory.

      I did however notice that Michaels (where I bought them as a kid) no longer has any model rocketry supplies on their website. Am I going to ship my kids off to Canada for their childhood sc

  • Electronic igniters (Score:4, Informative)

    by jaxom_01 ( 720138 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:23PM (#17239436)
    The rocketry community has had this under control for a long time. You can buy commercially made igniters for about $2 each that will fire nearly instantly with the application of a 12v power source. You can also buy (or make) low voltage igniters (called e-matches) for about the same price. In the US, you are required to have a Low Explosive User Permit(LEUP) to buy/store/transport e-matches but if you make them yourself and use them on your own property, then you only have to store them in a type-3 magazine (a good metal ammo box lined with 1/4 plywood counts as a type-3 magazine) In a pinch, you could use some 31 gauge nichrome wire that is connected to a 12v source but that will take 1 or 2 seconds to heat up.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Daxster ( 854610 )
      Creating e-matches is pretty simple - one method is to use your nichrome wire you mentioned and coat the middle with a bunch of black powder. Wrap the fireworks' fuse about this, and run some copper wire to the nichrome - the nichrome heats up (doesn't spark or melt) and ignites the black powder, which ignites your fuse.
    • Several other options - some are already mentioned long before I post this - Nichrome wire as mentioned above - or any other fuse wire, or low-voltage lightbulbs with the glass carefully broken off. Unfortunately they might be slightly laggy. But what are you lighting? fuse-based pyrotechnics? That's slow anyway.

      If you want a spark, then use transistors (or push buttons even), a car ignition coil and sparkplugs. Sparkplugs are relatively cheap, and built damn tough so they'll be reusable. Sparks are fas
    • In my experiments another effective electric "fuse" can also be made with steel wool. You just buy a couple of steel wool scrub pads and tear off a small corner. You just have to make sure that it's a small section (about 2-3mm or 1/8") works well. It takes a little more current than a model rocket igniter, but is far cheaper.
  • Model rockets usually use electronic fuses that are basically a resistor that's designed to get hot and ignite when a little electricity goes through it.

    You should be able to order a few dozen of them from any model rocketry place before the men in black show up.

  • Get a professional (Score:5, Insightful)

    by caffeinatedOnline ( 926067 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:36PM (#17239672) Homepage
    I had a friend who was a professional pyrotechnic for many years. On a job for a small new years eve festival something went wrong with the setup and he was killed. This was someone who had years of experience doing this, and was working with a group of other people who had been doing it for years. If you really don't know exactly what you are doing, the chance of you not only hurting/killing yourself, but others is there.

    • Devil's advocate here...

      How was he killed? What there something mortally dangerous in what he was doing, or was it just some kind of wild fluke? I've heard of people being injured with fireworks, but I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of anyone being killed.

      Your story kind of reminds me of the stories I hear of kids who get hit in the chest by a baseball, a linebacker, or whatever, and collapse dead of a heart attack on the spot. Has it happened? Sure. Is it tragic? You bet. But

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by caffeinatedOnline ( 926067 )
        He was killed when he was loading a tube and 'something' (theories abound, from static electricity to a short in the wiring... what caused it was never proven) caused the firework to ignite. These are not your average 'buy at the indian reservation' roman candles. They are class B explosive devices, which require a special permit from ATFE, so yes, what he was doing was mortally dangerous. Fluke? His friends and family think so, as he was known to be very careful on the job. But, when dealing with high expl

        • That's awful!

          Still, for what it's worth, I hope the submitter isn't dealing with stuff this big and dangerous. I'm imagining him trying to set up the kind of stuff you get at your local fireworks shack so that it's timed when they go off instead of lighting it manually himself. Barring stupidity, inattentiveness, or really weird flukes such as what you've described, I would hope that messing around with them should be relatively safe.

          In fact, since he'll presumably be standing far away when they're ig

        • From how you described it, it sounds like he connected the igniter to the wiring system and then lowered the shell into the mortar. I'm not trying to be dick, but that was clearly a mistake on his part. Common sense says that the shells should be safely in the tubes before any electrical connections are made because if they go off unexpectedly, they shoot (relatively) harmlessly in the air instead of the lifting charge bursting at ground level.
          • Not being there, I couldn't tell you how the setup was. As you say, common sense would dictate that the everything was setup (shells, ignitor, etc) before the electrical connections were made. He having done this for quite a number of years, I would find it hard to believe that he was dropping shells into a 'live' tube. I would hazard a guess that while the wiring was being connected a spark occured firing the shell into him. (ie the static electricity or bad wiring comment). Not really being savvy to pyro
      • How was he killed? What there something mortally dangerous in what he was doing, or was it just some kind of wild fluke? I've heard of people being injured with fireworks, but I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of anyone being killed.

        It happens now and again even to a pro. The Fireworks Alliance [bbc.co.uk]

  • I saw a television special once. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FooAtWFU ( 699187 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:52PM (#17239952) Homepage

    There was a television special once - you know the kind, Discovery Channel or TLC or some such - on some fireworks experts. They were putting together a big display, something like the Washington, DC 4th of July fireworks, to be accompanied with some fancy-schmancy concert. After all the choreography business, and setting up the pyrotechnics, they wired it back to a control panel.

    Now, this control panel wasn't actually your typical doohickey with buttons. It had a rows upon rows of exposed metal contacts (little stubs of wire sticking up vertically), and the guy in charge would activate them, one at a time, by touching them to a little hand-held device that I assume was wired up to the ignition current. I think he even had sheet music.

    At first I wondered, "how disappointingly low-tech". But consider: you're dealing with pyrotechnics here. If it just takes a little current to ignite the high explosives, then you really don't want to hook everything up to an electrical circuit, microcontroller, electronics, any of that business. You keep the circuit open, until you're ready to close it. And if something goes terribly wrong, you really, really don't want anything to keep igniting rockets until you push a button to turn it off. You want to be able to just stop.

    In summary, hands-free control is just not the way to go when dealing with pyrotechnics.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The control panel you describe, if I understand you correctly, is known as a nailboard. They're easy to construct (by hand if necessary) and were commonly used for electically-fired displays a couple decades ago.

      In recent times, firing current is usually provided by a much more complex setup. The show is pre-programmed into one or many firing boxes. As show time approaches, the operator boots and arms the firing box. In large shows with multiple firing boxes in separated positions, a timecode signal is prov
  • Take that, Intelligent Design!
  • Just because I can do it, should I do it.
    No.
        But...
    No.

    Go look up the story on Disney's patent on using air cannons for lauching fireworks- believe that they made it free for anyone to use.

  • Off to top of my head. Don't do this yourself. You are essentialy playing with explosives. Experts die doing this type of thing every year. Either get some training or get an expert in.
  • That's about it. Something this serious needs a professional.

  • No LEUP? Use rocketry ignitors and MOSFETs. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chembal ( 15397 ) * on Thursday December 14, 2006 @02:08PM (#17240274) Homepage
    I tackled this same problem several times with varying results.

    My first attempt used a TINI controller board hooked up to relays [chembal.com] hooked up to model rocket igniters. This worked well, but relays are expensive and don't scale well if you want to do this on the cheap.

    My next attempt used a Freescale GP32 controller with MOSFETs [chembal.com]. This worked very well, and is a more scalable solution. Again, I used model rocket igniters. If you look at my pictures, you can see how I made a nice set of firing racks, too, complete with power distribution scheme and chainable serial control. I wrote a program in Java to send control signals to the controllers to shoot the shells off in sequence.

    After these attempts, I finally got sick of playing with the small stuff and got my explosives permit so I can play with 1.3g display fireworks. When you have your explosives permit, you're no longer limited to crappy model rocket igniters. You can buy professional quality e-matches that are meant for the task. They're a bit pricey, but they already are the right length of leads, and work GREAT. Also, the larger shells are MUCH easier to electrically fuse, since they use quick match instead of visco fuse. But, no vendor is going to sell you those nice e-matches without first seeing your LEUP. (Low Explosives User Permit.) That takes a bit of work to get, so I'll assume that's beyond your scope. Of course, there are also professional systems available for control, but they're pricey.

    So, I'm going to take a guess that you don't have a LEUP and just want to hack something together to shoot off your 1.4g consumer fireworks. Here's what I've learned from my experience doing the same thing. It's not that tough to do, but don't underestimate the amount of wiring you have ahead of you if you intend on shooting off more than a few shells. With only a few weeks from new years, you'll probably get a more impressive display by buying several nice cakes. But, since that's not the slashdot way, here's how you can do what you want to do...
    • First, don't do any of this in your living room! Don't go burning down or blowing up your house.
    • Buy packs of estes model rocket igniters, and attach longer leads to them. This is the cheapest and most reliable way of doing what you want without getting an explosives permit.
    • Buy the plain-jane 1.4g artillery shells from your favorite roadside vendor (NOT the canister style shells, because they're not easily electrically re-fused), and CAREFULLY cut or remove the fuses. Black powder is sensitive stuff, so be smart about this step!!!
    • Cut a slit in the paper bottom of the shell. This is where the black powder lift charge is. Insert your igniter into the slit, and tape over it and any hole left over from the original fuse to hold the igniter in place and prevent the loss of your lift charge.
    • Place the shells into your PROPERLY SIZED artillery shell tubes, and hook up the leads to your firing system, be that through relays, MOSFETs, or a simple switch. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to get the right size and type of tubes and to make sure they are stable! Pyro Universe [pyrouniverse.com] is a good resource for this and other info.
    • When everyone is a safe distance away, and the area is secure, hook up your system to power and apply current to the igniters. They will fire the instant you apply current if you've inserted the igniter correctly.

    Please be safe about this! It's a ton of fun, but observe sensible safety precautions. I highly recommend taking a class on display fireworks to learn how to do all this right. Premier Pyro [premierpyro.com] gives great classes on this every year, and you'll have tons of fun to boot. At the very least, give NFPA 11

  • The Old Adage (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kozar_The_Malignant ( 738483 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @02:09PM (#17240298)

    >set one up easily, inexpensively, and safely

    Pick any two.

    You might also want to be thinking about your last words for your friends to remember you by. Some of the more popular choices from previous Darwin Award winners are:

    • Watch this.
    • I do this all the time.
    • Of course it's safe.
    • This is so cool.
    • This looked really great when they did it in the movies.

    Have a friend shoot the video from a safe distance for your In Memoriam web page.

    • Re:The Old Adage (Score:4, Funny)

      by awing0 ( 545366 ) <adam AT badtech DOT org> on Thursday December 14, 2006 @04:40PM (#17243526) Homepage
      Alternately, I prefer:
      • Hold my beer, watch this!
    • I've done this for years. Just use the Little-Brother-Safety-System and no one important can get hurt. It's not like he needed that left arm anyway.
    • Make sure you select the right friend. This is crucial.

      You need someone who is not a close enough friend that he/she will drop the camera and run to help you. Yet close enough that he/she will want to help you and not just bolt from the scene, thus hesitating long enough to get the shot.

    • My, there's a lot of proselytizing on Slashdot for this guy. One is lead to believe that Slashdot is frequented by pansies who've never set off fireworks before. I suggest that those who call themselves Geeks yet don't appreciate the "big boom" and that using a remote ignition system to gain distance on the explosion improves safety while simultaneously cranking up the Geek Factor - turn in your cards at the door.

  • If you have to ask (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is falls under the category of if you have to ask then you have no idea what you are doing.

    This is nothing to mess around with even model rocketry can be very dangerous if and when something goes wrong.
    Fireworks are orders of magnitude faster explosives they can kill you faster then you can blink.
    All the setups that I have see there are contacts that are MANUALLY closed for every event. The technician(s) has a score that lists what and when to fire. If anything is out of place person/animal on the rang
  • get a professional, and use google - first hit on searching for fireworks electronic blasting cap [pyromate.com]. I have worked with profesisonal pyrotechnicians in the past, and its tricky business. You really don't want to be playing around with this without proper training. First of all, you will have to replace all the fuses on the fireworks you buy, which will probably render about half of them useless. Pro pyrotechnics are actually built with the options of electric igniters. the stuff you buy in shops isn't. you ar
    • I don't know what you're getting paid to do this, but I would hire someone who would do it for a little less and pocket the difference.
  • I'd recommend checking out passfire.com [passfire.com] software. I don't know a lot about the field, but the software is impressive. You can drag and drop music, colors/types of shells, etc. into the 'stage' to see what the show will look like, and when you're done, export it to a laptop in a somewhat industry standard format to trigger and run the actual show. It will even generate the 'chemical recipes' for the shells you've specified, so you can go off and build them.

    It's the type of thing that "professional" fireworks
  • "easily, inexpensively, and safely " Pick any two.
  • This is stupidest idea I've heard in a while. You are dealing with explosives. You are proposing writing (hands-off) software for controlling explosives. How often do people make programming errors? Often. But oftentimes those errors won't be affecting explosives being set off. This is soooo not a good idea. Also the 'hands off' aspect is worrying - as others have noted, you want constant positive input (i.e. holding a switch down) to allow the show to continue - if switch opens, the stuff stops. And this s
  • Ummm...Hi! I'm special agent Smith from the Department of Homeland Security. Got a minute?
  • ...is a valid, legal hobby in the US. And there are a lot of people who can help you. What you describe is quite achievable, and can be made quite safe. However, I do not believe you will be able to get it together in your extremely short timeframe, unless you have only a few fuses to light. And if you only have a few fuses to light, you don't need computer choreography.

    I could (and do) write volumes on the subject of amateur pyrotechnics, but I'll try to keep this response short. Electrical firing sy
  • I built a _simple_ launch system for 8 artillery tubes for 7-4-2006.

    The system centered around the 'launch panel'; an old phone display acrylic from Radioshack. We used 20ft. runs of 18awg wire to run from the panel to each tube. Alligator clips were soldered to the end of each set of wires. Each shell had a single strand of wire pulled from a 8awg power wire wrapped around the fuse. This small wire was ~26-30awg. Any smaller and the wire burnt through without igniting the fuse, any larger and I was worried

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