Is Ubuntu a Serious Desktop Contender? 463
Exter-C asks: "2006 was the year that a large amount of people started to talk Ubuntu as a possible contender for the Enterprise Linux desktop. There are several key issues that have to be raised: Is Ubuntu/Canonical really capable of maintaining Dapper Drake (6.06 LTS) for 5 years? I know this is not a new question but the evidence after 6 months seems to be negative. A case in point is the 4-5+ day delay for critical updates to packages like Firefox. Given that such a large percentage of people use their desktop systems on the web critical, browser vulnerabilities seem to be one of the core pieces of a secure desktop environment (user stupidity excluded). Can Ubuntu/Canonical really compete with the likes of Red Hat, who had patches available (RHSA-2006:0758) the day that the updates came out?"
Aren't they really (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
You can fix needing to run your cd burner as sudo by either:
easy way: SUID root your CD burner software (major security risk though - atleast in unix terms, no worse than always loging in as admin under windows)
slightly harder but much more sensible way: add group rw permissions to the CD burner device and make sure your user is a member of that group (I'm actually a little surprised and disappointed that that is not the default on ubuntu...)
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Same here. In fact, I was pleased to discover that in Ubuntu 6.10, all I needed to to was right-click on a disc and select "Copy disc" to make an ISO. Cool!
But if you do need to run a program with elevated permissions in GNOME, the right way to do it is with gksudo. You will get a prompt in the GUI to enter your password. If you add the NOPASSWD option to your
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
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First, Ubuntu has not required root to burn since Breezy Badger. The "back to XP for my childish trailers guy" was lying on this one or doesn't know what he installed.
Second, I find it funny when people complain about Linux usability. Have you ever tried to burn a CD out of the box on Winblows? Oh wait... you need to spend $90 on Nero??? Even then, it takes 100MB of RAM and 2 hours to actually _find_ the "burn" option. For all the people that complain about options in KDE,
Burning a CD on Ubuntu *doesn't* require sudo (Score:3, Informative)
I have no idea why he requires sudo, but I have no problem using GnomeBaker to burn CDs without sudo.
The permissions look correct to me, out of the box. I've never touched them.
cdrom:x:24:haldaemon,colin
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 22, 0 2006-12-27 14:07
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Why is this insightful? Both Windows XP and Ubuntu support exactly this behaviour.
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I've installed various versions of Ubuntu from 5.04 to 6.10 on a number of computers, all with gnomebaker CD burning software. Not a single one ever asked me for password to run the application (only when installing it).
I have no idea how he managed to get Ubuntu to require a password to run without messing around with permissions of the CD drive or something like that (which would probably
CD burning on Linux (Score:3, Informative)
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Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
2 If you are talking about Visual Studios, ok, I understand that, but for the rest, Mono works quite nicely.
3 I've had that experience too, but I think it's partially due to the generic compilation used. I have not had that issue in either FreeBSD or Gentoo, where I had the exact opposite experience, when handling multiple tasks, they are much more responsive than windows.
4 No argument there
5 very little argument there. With WINE you can get some nice options, and if you are willing to search long/hard enough, you can find nice OSS options for linux/BSD
As for the video, again I'd blame Ubuntu, it is one of the slowest distros I've used.
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The closest I managed was an ancient Performa 6360 from 1997, and that's because it's about as basic as it gets. Technically it WAS completely supported, but
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Interesting)
1) I got sick to death of having to install different programs to burn CDs correctly, with the drag and drop interface terribly annoying and confusing.
2) A lot of software I like as a programming hobbiest is not easily available with a simple command like apt-get install
3) I hate to say it, but virtual desktops and fluxbox leave my desktop a lot less cluttered and much easier to work with than windows does out of the box, and my computer is under load from its graphics a lot less often
4) Things like configuring wireless interfaces were endlessly confusing. Theres about 4 different places to enter a wireless key - but only one of them accepts my home key, as the rest claim it is too long! With linux I just typed it in and it worked.
5) Linux has far more easily accessible and non-crapware solutions available to be easily installed from a secure and trusted source.
The final thing which did it was when I wanted to play a video - WMP has gone through many funcitonality decrements over the years, and when I finally switched to mplayer it coped a lot better with partially missing files, keyboard shortcuts and general niceness than the MS equivilant.
Windows is a best a memory hog of a contendor at this stage, while linux is fast and nible, but with the true power of unix behind it.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
3) I hate to say it, but virtual desktops and fluxbox leave my desktop a lot less cluttered and much easier to work with than windows does out of the box, and my computer is under load from its graphics a lot less often
I use XFCE for my XUBUNTu desktop but I have not found a way to "tile windows" and "cascade windows" or anything equivalent, I found the ION [cs.tut.fi] window manager which pretty much an overkill solution for what I want to do (just automatically tile more than one file browser and terminal window...).
4)Things like configuring wireless interfaces were endlessly confusing. Theres about 4 different places to enter a wireless key - but only one of them accepts my home key, as the rest claim it is too long! With linux I just typed it in and it worked.
Can you name the FOUR places where you had to enter your wep key? you just need to run the network wizzard and it is done, in contrast with Linux where, well, it depends the distribution you are using the program you will have to use but only *if* your wireless network card is supported (my notebook network card just keeps turning on and off but does not works... oh and I have the "supported drivers" and the firmware... go figure).
he final thing which did it was when I wanted to play a video - WMP has gone through many funcitonality decrements over the years, and when I finally switched to mplayer it coped a lot better with partially missing files, keyboard shortcuts and general niceness than the MS equivilant.
hmmmm... I use VLC in Linux to play movies etc, I had to install it (as the applications that come with Xubuntu are terrible to watch video, and ubuntu and on any other distro you MUST download all the "restricted", "no open source" "devil" "god forbid them" whatever codecs). Oh! and the installation was a time consuming... even to make it play the same types of video I *used* to play with the same program on WINDOWS. So yeah, nice troll there.
1) I got sick to death of having to install different programs to burn CDs correctly, with the drag and drop interface terribly annoying and confusing.
Why? just intall Nero the NERO Burning ROM CD that came with your CD-RW (or DVD) recorder. If you bought your computer chances are they are already installed. if you pirated windows just pirate it from the same site. Not that I did not need to install a program to burn in Xubuntu... oh! and it was a PAIN in the ass to burn with more than the lousy 8.3 format and more than 7 nested directories... I had finally to sucumb and download KDE's K3B program which I dont like because each time I have to start it it takes ages while it loads all the KDE crap (talk about memory hog) like kdesyscoca and whatever else.
2) A lot of software I like as a programming hobbiest is not easily available with a simple command like apt-get install
Name 1 (ONE) programming language or software that you can run on Linux that can NOT be run on Windows XP.
hello?
Thank you.
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Amarok. Would probably be pretty easy to compile using Cygwin or something though.
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3) You can auto-tile or auto-cascade windows under MS Windows? I never found anything of the sort in the 17 years that I've had a copy around.
4) I haven't seen the problem you are having. Maybe the poorly/un-documented in
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Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
Name 1 (ONE) programming language or software that you can run on Linux that can NOT be run on Windows XP.
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Lack of software used to be one of my main reasons for not using Windows on the desktop. It is no longer the case, thanks to Cygwin, and many other porting efforts. But as you said, even though most software I use is actually available for Windows, hunting it down, installing it and keeping it upgraded is a major pain. Stuff that's installed out of the box on Linux, or that is available for an easy installation from centralized repositories, has to be downloaded from 50 different websites and ins
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I think he was exagerating, but in windows, a lot of wireless cards come with thier own wireless configuration tool, which may or may not be in use. So it is fairly common for users to enter in their WEP key in the the netwrok wizard, have it not work and then have to enter it again in the wireless cards own configuration utility (which has disabled the windows
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Addressing only at this point the home users,
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As a
#3 is probably accurate. Somewhere in the switch from the 2.2 kernel to the 2.4 kernel, changes in the VM manager really killed interactive performance under load (IMHO).
#4 isn't fair becau
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If option B is completely unacceptable, you h
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I found the oposite to be true for machines that spend most of the time online. If you share a machine with teenagers, the Windows machine quickly becomes bogged down and requires rebuilding every 3-6 months. I stuck on Ubuntu Breexy Badger and later upgraded to Dapper Drake. For the 99% online stuff they do, it simply doesn't bo
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Running as root is not required. Rather, the problem is that users are not in the cdrom group by default (members of the cdrom group have permission to read and write to the CD-ROM drive). To fix this, you need to add your user to the cdrom group. To do this, go to System->Administration->Users and Groups. Choose your user from the list, and click on "Properties". Then check the "Use CD-ROM drives" checkbox (along with others
I'm using Ubuntu and don't need to sudo (Score:2)
2) It's
3) XP is only even close in terms of performance when it's using the "classic" interface.
4) Again, wireless worked out of the box, All I had to do was give it the ESSID and encryption key. System->Administration->Networking.
5) 20,000 packages in the Debian/Ubuntu respository alone. How many Windows packages are there?
6) You have a slight point about windows video codecs, but there are reasons for
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1) CD burned works out of box for me, as does DVD burning. I had no need to mess with permissions or run with sudo.
2)
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My computer running XP is regularly up for days at a time, and my file server running XP has been up for 3 weeks. XP is stable. If XP crashes running YouTube videos there is something wrong with your computer. Period.
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People are stupid, biased and generally like to make stuff up. You must not be from this planet, enjoy your stay some of us are ok.
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The fact that it isn't fixed already means the distro probably wasn't tested whatsoever on those laptop models which, as the parent sarcastically points out, really inspires confidence, doe
Ubuntu is my desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Ubuntu (with some necessary updates and enhancements) is a perfectly capable operating system, and the Gnome2 desktop serves my needs just fine. I can do everything (and more) that my windows box can do, plus I get to use my choice of scripting languages to customize my experience.
Nothing is hidden away from me in cryptic registries, and I run only those things that make sense to me. On my Windows box, there are several programs that have installed themselves over the years, and seemingly cannot be uninstalled. I keep most of them disabled and beaten down, but can't seem to eradicate them entirely. Even tools from my huge international IT industry company don't seem to be able to keep the buggers off of my Windows machine. Number of virii or malware programs on my Ubuntu box? Zero.
So, yes, Ubuntu can be an effective and pleasing desktop.
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You have got to be kidding. (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Comments, you can actually add comments to text config files.
2) You can use a normal text editor, normal version control (ever tried putting the registry in subversion?) and other well-honed text tools to work with text based config files.
Re:Ubuntu is my desktop (Score:5, Informative)
Simply because most programmers (such as Microsoft programmers) use ENUM values in it, so you end up with entries such as "Policy DWORD 3", this gem from
Contrast that with damn near any native Unix app (such as Apache) where all the configuration files are in a human readable form where you can easily cut and paste examples from the internet, easily copy to another machine, manage it from any text editor, etc. (I'm not saying that the apache config file is the best format, but it does work.) Instead of having to hand-compute bitmasks, you use words.
While you CAN use regedt32 (regedit) to partially "manage" settings, the majority of the contents are useless as the registry is first and foremost designed to ONLY be managed via the various applications via the API it and Not by humans.
The registry is a double-edged sword. It can be an efficient way for applications to save and restore state / settings, but at the expense of making it Very difficult to manage outside of the application.
Many Unix applications are beginning to use XML files to replace the old way. I'm on the fence about that, but still prefer it over the Windows Registry.
tried installing ubuntu for the past few weeks. (Score:2, Insightful)
i have one pc at home.
it's connected to a wifi network belonging to my landlord on a weak signal.
i have no control over the ap so i can't change any settings or its location
or improve the signal
or run a network cable to it.
so i look around to find a usb wifi adapter that will work with ubuntu. had tried a pci card but that will not get a good enough signal so it has to be a usb adapter which can be at the end of a 2 metre usb cable.
don't want to risk my windows partition so i buy a new disk.
then t
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I have a D-link wireless card connecting to a WPA AP. To get this to work from Windows I install the drivers from the CD, install the card and voila.
From Ubuntu I need to run a CAT5 cable across my apartment to the AP so I can apt-get install NetworkManager-gnome. Then I'm able to connect to the wireless network fine. I've been told that NetworkManager will be installed by default in the next version of Ubuntu. But to me that's always been the Linux problem f
Re:Weak signal WiFi tip (Score:2)
Forget the trouble of USB and drivers. I picked up a Dlink Access Point. It can be put into client mode. Nice. Plug in a Cat 5 cable and pretend it's a hardwired network jack. I even tested it with my ancient Windows 95 laptop which has no USB and only 16 bit cardbus. I connected to my LAN wi
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Also, the:
'hdc: ide_intr: huh? expected null handler on exit'
'buffer i/o error on device hdc, logical block'
Are normal errors, it's simply the device telling your kernel there is no media currently.
NetworkManager barely made it into dapper in time. It allows you to list wireless networks using gnome and work with the dbus to manage all of your connections. It was going to be the default in edgy but it was pushed due to some other issues that I believe are fixed now. I'd
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iwlist scan
To associate do:
iwconfig eth1 essid foo
Do a --help for both iwlist and iwconfig for all of the options. If you're looking for wpa support, might want to check the forums as that's a different animal if you don't use networkmanager.
Yes it is ready for its coronation. (Score:3, Insightful)
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I agree. I've been using Ubuntu for a little over a year, and it's been on all my boxes for about a month. I've been explaining to my friends and family lately that Linux is a great operating system, and while I'm okay with them using Windows, I think they ought to have a reason for it before they pay $200 for it, then pay annually for security.
When I ask my girlfriend "Why do you use Windo
Pay for security? (Score:2)
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Many program
Desktop is the last place for linux adoption (Score:5, Insightful)
Why Ubuntu? Why not...... (Score:4, Insightful)
*rant mode off*
This reply should have been a ASK Slashdot, but we all know we miss actual articles. So I wont put us through it.
Ben
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I'll call that "selective memory".
I wonder why someone couldn't bring it back, limit the crap in the install, but make it available (you dont need emacs or vi, you need Write or a notepad).
Actually, no. I don't want any of those because for me there's really two types of text editors - plaintext (config files, code, small notes etc.) and formatted text (OpenOffice/KOffice style). I'd like just
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sure, but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
And Free Software is not always about being better, it's about being Free.
After a few years of using only Linux (various distros, Ubuntu for past year) I would never install a proprietary system on my computer.
Just look where proprietary software is leading - DRM, spyware, adware... It's much easier to hide these "features" in closed-source software.
Ok, Windows supports all the hardware, Linux does not - oh well, I just check hardware for Linux compatibility before I buy it.
I just believe that Free Software is the only way we should go. Things like DRM just hurt customers, they simply haven't realized that yet.
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That statement sums up why Ubuntu, and probably Linux, will never be a suitable replacement OS on most desktop systems.
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Making software Free can eventually result in it becoming "better",
but making software "better" never results in it becoming Free.
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It's also about being insular, myopic, smug, and ultimately almost entirely irrelevant. 99.9...% of the human population do not and are never going to give a shit about being "Free."
Some of us also realise that being "Free" solely means being free to follow the FSF's dictates anywayz. If you want that, you can have it...personally I prefer being able to create/maintain my own definition of freedom, rather than being dictated to by R
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That is the sad state of affairs. Some consumers are going wow, it works with I-tunes store or Yahoo Music. They see the ability to play DRM sources as a feature, not a liability. Wait for 2-3 hardware upgrade cycles and see what the tune is then when their paid for library simply won't play anymore and mine plays just fine.
fud, notfud, yes, no, maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
Ubuntu has a potential, but it's not some kind of magic distribution.
ATTENTION SLASHDOTTERS (Score:5, Insightful)
For fuck's sake, this is not a Windows/Linux article. Please at least read the first sentence of the posted article in future, before taking the opportunity to vent your Windows vs Linux obsession.
Now, does anyone have anything to say about the Enterprise Linux desktop?
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The only evidence given for the claim is the issue of 4-5 day delays for Firefox patches on Ubuntu, versus same-day response for Red Hat. Now, this is a good point, and Canonical should improve in this respect. However, 2 things should be said: (1) Microsoft does not seem to reply very quickly to critical vulnerabilities - not that this is an excuse, but it does go to show that a few days' wait isn't enough to mak
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Now it is entirely possible the Ubuntu folks have suddenly binned all their patches to Firefox, but I think you might be mistaking stuff read on
Of course it may well be that Iceweasel is more different now, but that probably reflects branding changes.
But I agree a few days here or there for some fixes (depending on their type) is
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People have noted that it takes longer than the usual amount of time for Ubuntu to issue patches, that perhaps has to do with compatibility testing and dealing with their package management system.
I have installed Ubuntu for a few people and generally like what I see in terms of usability for your average computer user who really is not all that
Firefox critical updates? (Score:2, Interesting)
LinuxMint is the new Ubuntu (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.linuxmint.com/ [linuxmint.com]
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Yes, with reservations (Score:3, Informative)
However, it's a double edged sword. The Ubuntu people have apparently thought out a number of different usage scenarios, and an end-user following any of those can do so quickly and easily. The down side is when you're trying to do anything (and I do mean anything) outside of the box...it becomes a nightmare.
For people who want their computer to be an appliance, with only a few highly specialised uses, Ubuntu could meet their needs...and given that this description fits most end-users, that is the reason why I could see it becoming/remaining the most popular Linux distribution. For anyone who wants anything more versatile, however (and for anyone who cares about a system which follows UNIX design philosophy - I'm talking about the stuff here [catb.org]) both Ubuntu and Debian are to be avoided, in my own mind.
Ready for the desktop? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ubuntu is a fairly good Linux distribution, with a pretty good set up. The Firefox update issue is probably not a fair consideration, since it's not actually Canonical, it's a function of Debian's issues with Mozilla.
The problem I have with Ubuntu's push is that it isn't really being pushed as a desktop for business so much as it is a desktop for the average user, to replace Windows or Mac. Unfortunately, it isn't ready for that, and it may actually be hurting itself because of it. If you're saying to people "Just download the CD's, and install it, it'll work with no problems.", you're asking for trouble. The people that are willing to give it a try are not expecting a Windows/Mac clone, but they do have certain expectations! Principally, that they're not going to spend the next three months learning how to debug, compile, edit configurations, and spend hours searching through various wikis, FAQ's, and web sites to actually use their computer for something.
These are the "first adopters", and the more unpleasant their experience, the harder is to get Linux out of the server/geek realm and into the home. It's been my experience that server OS's tend to make mediocre desktop OS's. That's been true whether it's Linux or Windows or (fill in the blank). The things you need to do on a server are different from what you need on most desktops. There's also a difference in needs between a business desktop and a home desktop. I think Linux is (mostly) ready to be a serious contender on the business desktop. Unfortunately, it isn't ready to be one on the home desktop. I think it could be one, but the community needs to listen and to look at what the average user actually is running into.
Here's a quote I found about Linux on the desktop on one of the other boards I frequent, that really helps summarize what needs to happen: "Come on nerds, would it really be such a terrible thing to spend $180 for a Linux will full hardware drivers and software codecs plus telephone support or even to pay $50 for a CD that gives you everything in the way of proprietary drivers and codecs ready to go for all your hardware and multimedia as opposed to spending hours and hours and hours downloading just bits and pieces of the solutions from all over the place and fighting to get them working? It's not like people who really want to couldn't still do that, but a simple, truly easy, less expensive alternative to the $400 Vista for the average Joe is what it is going to take to get the average Joe to come over from the dark side--and no one is ever going to have a prayer of winning the fight for open standards as long as all those ordinary Joe's are still living on the dark side."
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This will never happen until Microsoft's monopoly diminishes to the point where it's no longer feasible to provide individual drivers for each of the main operating systems since they can't count on selling enough units solely with Windows drivers, and the vendors must fully implement standards supported by the most popular OSes, and/or a common driver framework is implemented (if there's a market, there's most certainly a way (hint: there's no market until Windows marketshare diminis
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Why compete against Red Hat? (Score:3, Insightful)
-Rick
Not yet. (Score:3, Insightful)
And hardware support is still not as good as Windows. There are still a lot of things with no drivers. That never will have drivers. Yes, hardware manufacturers are to blame for this, but that doesn't matter to my computing experiece. And software support is still lacking. Few games are getting ported and while Amarok is at least as good of a music player as WinAmp, there is still no Linux equivalent to the beauty of Media Player Classic.
So why should I switch? Why should anyone switch? So my answer to your question is still no. It's getting closer. Maybe in a few years. But not now.
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[blah][blah][blah] But once something breaks you're back to cryptic /etc files and other obscure things. Given time to research I can handle this, but the average person cannot. Linux is still more complicated to maintain than Windows, and that is going to be deciding factor for your average schmo.
How exactly do you fix things that break in Windows? I ask because it's usually registry edits and magic downloads that end up fixing the problems I have. While there isn't a set format for those cryptic /etc files, there are usually headers that tell you what to do, along with those wonderful MAN pages. With Windows, I have no choice but to google the problem & hope someone else has come up with a solution. Even the few times I've called MS support, I usually get the 'we can't help you - reinstalling
My wife likes it... (Score:2, Interesting)
That being said, I absolutely despise ndiswrapper, which is the only way to ge
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Yes, plain and simple (Score:3, Insightful)
If any Linux environment is going to gain serious market share away from the Windows-only non-experts of the world, it's going to be a free and easy-to-use system like Ubuntu.
I use Ubuntu (Score:3, Informative)
Wine works pretty well for some Windows apps and games, but I use the latest version from Wine's deb repository, not Ubuntu's. I haven't needed to use Wine recently, as I don't play a lot of games anymore.
I've avoided using the Firefox in Ubuntu because in the past it has always been much slower and more problematic than the official builds I download from mozilla.org.
Ubuntu Edgy for me has been less reliable than Dapper, in exchange for more experimental features, hence the name Edgy. Everything so far has had a workaround though.
Totem is a surprisingly good DVD player, when playing discs that don't require libdvdcss.
I use MPlayer for playing most videos. I naturally had to get the win32 codecs from a third party source, but otherwise it works well.
On one system I had to configure grub to boot with the noapic kernel option to prevent Ubuntu from freezing at random times. It's a hardware related problem.
I was able to add kubuntu (kde) and xubuntu (xfce) to my ubuntu system without much difficulty, apart from them overwriting each other's artwork. Even with all that, I was able to upgrade from Dapper to Edgy without losing anything, though it took some careful work.
DosEMU runs dos programs natively in a window with better performance and compatibility than Windows could ever offer, though I think it took some extraordinary measures to get it installed right on Dapper. I can't remember what though.
At home I have Ubuntu on my main desktop (which I bought with no OS) and Windows Server 2003 on my second (cheaper) desktop for the sole reason that I got a free 1 year msdn subscription a few months ago. If being a serious desktop contender means you can use it professionally as your primary (or only) desktop, then Ubuntu has been since its first release. But having been previously comfortable with Visual Studio, I must admit I've been less productive than I was before, lacking a good (imho) alternative, even though Linux solves the main complaints I've had about Windows. Linux is less stressful and easier to administer at least. I don't curse at it every hour. And I don't plan to give MS another dime after all they've done in recent years.
Watch me get modded as a troll (Score:3, Interesting)
Besides, Linux distros, as a whole, are a sort of a mess. If you ever had to buy proprietary software for Linux, you know what I'm talking about - unreliable. You better pray that on your next upgrade your expensive software will work. There are too many differences between distros for ISVs to keep up...
Right now, it seems the best choice for an open source desktop would be PC-BSD, with its install as easy as a Windows or a Mac OS install. PC-BSD, fortunately, is based on FreeBSD and is not a fork or a distro. Just a solution on top of FreeBSD. BSD developers work on the system as a whole. Linux is made of bits and pieces. Some say that it's what makes it evolve faster. I'm not so sure. Of course, we have to keep in mind what firms like IBM invest in Linux development...Apparently, the fallacy that GPL protects your business investment seems to hinder BSD devlopment (20th-century limited material resources type of thinking...)
I've used Debian for over 5 years. I tried Ubuntu. Ubuntu has has too many problems for my taste, like problems in upgrading, documentation problems, etc. I thought the whole Ubuntu experience was disorganized, in fact, and I thought PHP web forums for support was the most pathetic you could get (hey, NNTP is nice!). SuSE and RedHat have per seat licenses, so where do you go for a decent Linux? We're not in 1996 anymore, we expect shit to work.
The whole typical Linux experience that made me switch to OpenBSD, FreeBSD and Mac OS. I am not going back to that ever...
My experience: It's the "little" things ... (Score:3, Interesting)
A few of my personal experiences with running Ubuntu:
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I must try this 'Linuz' OS sometime. :P
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pssst!.... its Wednesday
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Total control. A huge repository of free software ready to install. Multiple desktops. A few terminal windows, a fullscreen Emacs and Firefox on seperate desktops; the ability to do almost anything using keyboard shortcuts, an extremely powerful command line, or even by my own scripts, the ability to do most of this remotely if needed; heaven.
I kept Windows on a small partition when I bought a new laptop, but booting it is a very rare thing. I don't care if it's what "the average user" uses, it's not for m
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Re:ummm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some other insightful questions for the next 'Ask Slashdot':
"Is Microsoft evil?"
"Is OSX beter than Vista?"
"IE7 or Firefox on Mom's PC?"
Don't forget the others. (Score:5, Insightful)
#2. People who are using some other Linux distribution as their desktop.
#3. People who are using a Mac or *BSD or whatever.
#4. People who are using Windows because of reasons A, B, C and/or D.
Whether X is a "serious desktop contender" really depends upon what YOU consider to be the requirements for a "serious desktop contender".
Do people ask the same question in other areas of their life? Do they go to a pizza place and question when pineapple and Canadian bacon pizza is "suitable" for dinner?
Do they go to a Ford dealership and ask whether a Ford is "suitable" for driving?
And so forth.
Honey, not vinegar. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure they do. (Score:4, Insightful)
Pay attention to that.
Most of the computer users are using Windows. Therefore, that caricature is about a Windows support person and Windows users.
And "most people" are not going to try Linux because "most people" use whatever OS was installed when they purchased the computer from Dell or HP or such.
Very few people will even try Linux. Those few are (aside from the trolls) the few who understand how the system works (hardware / OS / apps / etc).
The trolls simply want Microsoft Windows
Phone support for Linux is available to those who need it. Red Hat provides it. Canonical provides it. The reason you don't hear about it that much is because the people who use it are usually supporting corporate servers, not home desktops. The people who run Linux on their home desktop already know how to use the Internet to find the answers they need.
Phone support for home users of Linux will be necessary when Linux is pre-installed on machines sold to home users by Dell and HP and so forth. And when that happens, Dell and HP and the others will provide the phone support.
But that is a long ways away. Look for Linux to gain in the corporate/government desktop market first. And the phone support for those will be the same as it is today. They will have their own IT staff trained on Linux and the specific apps that they use.
Ubuntu on the desktop is ready, today, for those people who have requirements that are met by Ubuntu.
Other people have different requirements. It's as simple as that.
I don't see that. (Score:4, Insightful)
I tend to hand out on the Ubuntu channel and I don't see that.
No. Linux is free (as in speech, as in beer).
Accomplishing a specific task in Linux takes effort, the same as it does in Windows or any other system.
But most people have already invested the time to learn how to accomplish that task in Windows and they no longer remember the effort it took.
I've taught people who have never used a computer before. I know the effort it takes for them to learn. My best example was a woman who could not double click with a mouse. She had to hold it still with one hand and click the buttons with her other hand.
A week of playing solitaire and she had mastered the double click and fine mouse control.
Compare apples to apples, okay?
Again, those are the ones who already know how their systems work and how to do research online. Those are the ones who switch to Linux and stay there.
Well, that's a pretty good example of what I was saying. Linux is a kernel. Even a whole distribution is just an OS.
Who would hype it (and who would believe that hype) to the same level as "the second coming of Christ"?
What is inaccurate?
That most people use Windows? Nope, the facts contradict you.
That most computer support people are Windows support people? Nope, the facts contradict you.
Therefore, the caricature is of a Windows support person. Whether you want to accept that fact or not.
Nick Burns isn't supporting their Linux boxes. He's supporting their Windows boxes.
No. If he was doing Linux support he would be a lot less amusing because far fewer people would have experienced that type of Linux support.
Which is the reason you don't see "Nick Burns, jet engine mechanic" as a comedy routine. It wouldn't be funny because very few people would have any experience with that situation.
Nick Burns is funny to so many people because so many people have had similar experiences with Windows support personel.
Not with Linux. With Windows.
Trolls complain about Linux simply because it is different from Windows and they don't want to re-learn their "computer skills". But the reality is that they don't have "computer skills". All they have is "Windows skills".
Re:ummm... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are just as many Slashdot users out there saying "Linux users need to realize that if they want their OS to survive blah blah blah" like you. Could you muster up an original thought? I've seen your post thousands of times on Slashdot. Funny that you are reading a LINUX thread and you are bitching about Slashdot's Linux users always talking about how amazing Linux is. Perhaps it's because you are READING A LINUX THREAD...
If you don't like Linux that's fine, but don't assume you know what Linux needs to survive. You're obviously retarded if you can't figure out how to click on "Applications" instead of a "Start" button, so why are you assuming you know what Linux needs to survive.
This article is stupid none-the-less because it's basically flamebait in itself. There are many people who have been using Ubuntu as their desktop OS for at least a year. It does everything I want it to do, so YES it's definitely ready for MY desktop. If it's not ready for yours, fine....don't use it. Stop pretending you know something that no one has thought of or said before though. Linux users don't need to realize anything. You need to realize something. We don't care if you use Linux or not. We aren't going to make a dime off it if you decide to use it. We like it. We've got the right to say we like it. You have the right to say you hate it, but realize that the things you may want from a desktop OS is not exactly what everyone else wants. For some people, Linux has been ready for the desktop for years. For some of us it's the perfect OS. Why would we want to change it so it's perfect for you. You already have your perfect OS that you love. Should we make Linux more like what you want? Blah this flamewar has been going back and forth for years. Just get over yourself and realize that You don't realize what Linux needs to survive. You know what your OS needs to survive. So just STFU, and read something other than a thread completely about Linux.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems like every discussion I read....where Linux is the topic, there are at least 20 posts putting down Linux and Linux users. To make things worse, these comments are usually +5 insightful. Yet people still complain that Slashdot is full of Linux Zealots. M
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Maybe.. (Score:5, Interesting)
To contribute to the main topic: no. I use Kubuntu at both home and work. At home I have a AMD Barton 3000+ w/ 2GB RAM, at work I have an Intel Core Duo laptop. Both with NVIDIA cards, thank god. With Kubuntu 6.10, the laptop has what I would consider a serious showstopper bug in the wireless driver where it would halt the CPU during boot with an informative message: "BUG: Soft lockup detected on CPU#0" about 70% of the time. The fix was to install a patch, but I couldn't be bothered to deal with it so I just deleted the module from the
Also, installing updates to the proprietary NVIDIA kernel module in Kubuntu doesn't work quite right for me. I have to manually remove the module from
I also managed to get one of my coworkers to move from Windows to Kubuntu, and let me just say that ATI can go to hell. That driver is so amazingly bad and complicated to install, that I will never recommend that someone install any distro of linux on a modern machine with an ATI card. Yeah the open source radeon driver 'works' but you don't get any acceleration. While that may not be a showstopper for many, it is impeding desktop acceptance.
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However... this problem seems to be specific to Kubuntu, not the ATI installer. When I installed the same driver on a machine running Mandriva, it just worked. It was even easier to install than the nVidia driver because you d
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So have you tried to run off a live CD? Freespire comes with the codecs that are not included in most Linux distributions that can be installed later. The problem is they are not installed when you run most live CD's so much online content won't play such as flash, MP3's, PDF's, and many movie formats.