What Solar Equipment to Power Disaster Recovery? 84
MailtoDelete asks: "I work with a team that is involved with disaster recovery efforts after natural disasters, like Katrina. We have satellite based equipment that allows us to bring data connections up in devastated areas to help bring the infrastructure back online to serve the public. I have looked at the main networking equipment and determined that the power draw is usually low (about 50 watts) and was curious about the possibility of using a small solar setup to power the equipment rather than running a 8-10kw generator to do the same work (after all, fuel may be scarce). Can anyone suggest a good site or book that I can look into that would help me learn more about what equipment would best serve my purpose? There is a small business in town that does this sort of work, and they have suggested a 550 watt array with the controllers, etc for about $5100. Does this sound reasonable?"
will 12V work for you? (Score:2)
What if it's cloudy? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't know where you are from, but I am from Southeastern North Carolina and here, the day after a hurricane, especially a major one, is the sunniest day of the year. Now, the area may be flooded and very dismal looking from all the destruction, but at least the sun is out!
Why was this guy modded down? He's absolutely right. I live in south Louisiana and I've been through several hurricanes, and every time, the day after is VERY sunny and bright. Now, the chances of your solar panels surviving the winds, well.. hope you kept them protected.
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Other than that, I will refer you some of the other posts for references.
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You'll need some sort of long-term energy storage if you want to use solar power, as solar power doesn't function in a cloudy situation.
Some of the new solar panels don't need full sunlight and can work while it's cloudy. Yes the older panels weren't good even if only a small part of the panel was blocked, whether by clouds or a tree, but newer tech had improved this.
FalconRe: (Score:2)
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Yes, you're correct, but you have to account for that in your design phase, and as someone else pointed out, there's also the whole "nighttime" situation to worry about as well.
Yea, and a small battery backup should be added as part of the system. In this case he says the power used is about 50 watts so two or three betteries should provide enough power during the night. If it doesn't then a charger can be used along with a generator that can provide power and charge the batteries.
Falcon
The simple solution (Score:4, Informative)
Yamaha EF1000iS 900W generator with
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I'm no expert on these, I'm just curious.
These generators aren't the most environmentally friendly, but during disaster recovery I'd think that's one of your least concerns; it's only temporary anyway.
Re:The simple solution - batteries (Score:1)
There is another posibility though. If your power requirements are low, then it might be worth looking into primary (non-rechargable) batteries. Primary cells have a much higher energy density than rechargables so if the intention is to only need to run your kit for a few days then it should be something t
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As many have noted, you'll need batteries for storage -- but, if you're willing to improvise and salvage, there there might be a reasonable supply of dead cars with
Home Power magazine (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.homepower.com/ [homepower.com]
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http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/products_solar.p
Two words. (Score:1)
Re:Two words. (Score:5, Funny)
He's looking for solutions for after the hurricane.
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No.
Think in terms of something mobile that can be set up just about anywhere and expected to work just about anywhere. Solar works even when there is cloud cover (admittedly attenuated), but wind power doesn't work on a still day.
Alternative Technology Association (Score:2)
Why solar? (Score:2)
My disaster recovery involves:
a) an Ethanol still ~$1500 USD
b) a generator tuned to run on Ethanol85/E100
So, in any disaster scenario I can just ship a few hundred bushels of feedstock grade corn (for livestock, or refuse), to a site and power electrical equipment. Solar is very inefficient per dollar, and in a post-hurricane scenario (or blizzard condition), you won't be able to power your equipment.
With an ethanol still/generator, you just need to
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The Upper Midwestern states are thousands of miles from natural sources of oil, and currently rely entirely on lengthy pipelines carrying crude oil from distant ports to local refineries. A disaster
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Unless you've been very careful (and spent a great deal of money) when choosing your batteries, you'd be wise not to depend on batteries that have been stored discharged.
For ordinary wet lead acid or "gel cell" batteries, you ought to at the very least store them fully charged and give them a tes
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Think beyond your area of expertise before you speak such.
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A few hundred bushels? The roads are blocked, bridges are down.
But why the hell would you truck in a moonshiner's still and the grain and the fuel to power the damn thing when you can truck in alcohol and other fuels from secure stockpiles and refineries outside the disaster zone?
The commercial grade product, safe and predictable. You'll need so
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That said, let's look at the Solar/Battery/Generator air-drop:
It's NOT trivial to air-drop a Solar Panel Array (including a person [or team] to set up/configure the relief)
It's NOT trivial to air-drop BATTERIES for the Solar Panel Array
It's somewhat trivial to ai
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If you going to ship in stuff to make fuel it makes more sense to save weight, v
You've got to be kidding. (Score:2)
First off... $1,500 for a still? You're either running several stills, or a REALLY large and expensive one. Or maybe you just opted for gold piping. You can make a workable reflux still for under $200.
Secondly... Corn is one of the most asstastic ethanol crops around. Seriously. Unless you live in Iowa, or elsewhere in the co
Marine Equipment (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically there's people on the go all over the world with no steady supply of power or fuel who have to be prepared for intense weather conditions - they're called yachties (c:
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I came to make the same recommendation for info and suppliers; however:
I've written about my yachtiness in posts over the years; and one of the things I've written is that solar is nice to have around when things are going well, as a luxury, but never, ever, ever bet your life on it.
That is when it will fail. Every time.
Solar is supplim
Try a combination (Score:4, Insightful)
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2004 Earthquake off the coast of Sumatra, Indonesia: Did Katrina make us forget this one? [wikipedia.org]
Hurricane Katrina, USA:
Hurricane Katrina, USA [terradaily.com]
At least in a complete water situtation, you're quite prepared for almost anything.
links (Score:1)
Windside Products [windside.com]
TMA Global Wind Energy Systems [tmawind.com]
PicoTurbine [picoturbine.com] (for fun)
In warm sunny climates (Score:2)
Solar + battery back up (if continuous operation is required) is fine. But I don't see why it has to be the USD5000 version - sounds too expensive.
You said the equipment has low power requirements, so just point the panel in the direction that gets the most sun and leave it there to charge the batteries for the times when there's not enough sunlight. Shouldn't need any fancy expensive controllers for that. If you're that desperate, maybe you can get stuff to reflect sunlight
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Charge controllers (Score:2)
Betcha the reference was to charge controllers for the batteries as opposed to sun tracking systems.
You need a charge controller. Draw too much or too little current from a solar panel and you lose efficiency, something you really can't afford. The batteries also need some coddling: you'd be surprised how involved a good charging algorithm is.
Suggestions:
o Standardize the generator on whatever fuel is being shipped into the disaster area. The Army
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AFAIK a Prius costs a bit more than USD5K.
I thought all the prius cars would be heading away from disaster areas rather than to them
Regards,
Link.
small solar setup (Score:2)
Home Power Magazine [homepower.com] publichs some good howto articles as does Solar Today [solartoday.com] .
FalconTough Question (Score:2)
Talk to your local HAMs (Score:1)
As to solar rigs, that price is not unreasonable. You can get true plug and play module rigs as well, all-in-one units, or two pieces at the most, the movable PV arrary plus the charger/controller/inverter/batteries on wheels or on a trailer. I would suggest the full trailer routine, probabgly the easiest solution and
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Our radio club has run a 100% solar setup for the last five or six field days. Nothing excessive - just a couple hundred watts for around 48 hours. Last time our setup consisted of 4 2x6 foot panels, a commercial regulator / battery charger, three or four big marine lead-acid batt
civil defense (Score:1)
Powerwagon XL (Score:1)
I happened to see an ad for this [independentenergy.biz] just today. Portable solar power station with a generator back-up (with SVO diesel an option). (I've no relation to the product other than noticing a print ad and thinking "huh, that's interesting".) At $7995 it's a fair bit pricier than the $5100 you mention, but that does include the generator, and they claim to qualify for a $2000 federal tax credit.
Emergencies are no place for eco-ethics (Score:3, Interesting)
A (I'm generalizing) small, light, reliable, and cost effective way to go about it is with mass produced fuel burning products (like small generators).
I like green, but solar cells in an emergency are not the most cost efficient way to power something, especially considering transport / setup / weather.
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In an emergency/crisis scenario, just get the job done - in fact, get it done with zer0 regard for anything else but survival (screw the overprotective soccermoms and their pretentious bullshit/faux values).
Save lives. Do the right thing. Go with your core instincts.
The law will most likely protect you and learn from you; rarely will it fight you when you are correct/right.
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It'd take up a hell of a lot of land area to set up, and have to be trucked in on several flatbed semis.
If it really is 50W, then one or two good sized panels should do it. Still way more expensive than a gas generator, and much more impractical for short term use.
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Did he mention eco-ethics? No. (Score:2)
I think you don't need to tell him how good generators are, since he says he's got one. He goes on to say that fuel scarcity is an issue. It sounds like he operates the sort of service that goes in and stays for a while, so generator fuel supply is not necessarily trivial.
Also, I think he knows the disadvantages of solar cells right enough, but recall that he's setti
Or RTGs (Score:2)
So what do you really need? (Score:2)
At 50W, solar makes some sense because a larger array can charge batteries with minimal sunlight in a few hours and the batteries can last for days at a 50W draw.
At 8-10KW trying to do this with solar will be quite expensive and the batteries to run this load at night will be nothing but astonishing. Yes, take your 550W array and multiply the cost 16x. Then add a bunch more for 80KWH worth of batteries to run it at night. Then look for the 50ft semi-
Easy... (Score:2)
Your solar panels won't put out full power when it's cloudy or hot, so oversize them by a good margin. Get an inverter, and you're set. A 175-watt panel and an inverter could start out at $1,000.
Since your power usage is fairly low, you could add a charge-controller, and as many batteries as you desire, which would accomplish two things: First, it would get your 50-watt load through the night as well. Second, it would give you powe
Solar equipment (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/ [backwoodssolar.com]
One other site I found interesting: http://store.altenergystore.com/Kits-Package-Deals /Sunwize-Power-Ready-Systems/c692/ [altenergystore.com]
Many Things To Consider... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't really have any answers, just more questions - more detail about your response situations would really be needed to get into more specifics (and I'm not in this area this anyway).
Reading other posts here, I agree that the Marine angle may provide a good avenue for further investigation. Another option is to look at organisations in the 3rd world and see what they use. Another poster made a good point in contacting local HAM outfits to see what they use for emergency and mobile operation.
You could also try contacting other emergency services organisations in your region - there are sure to be some local ones, as well as groups like coast guards, chapters of Medicine Sans Frontiers, International Red Cross etc
. I think that some of the key points are likely to be:
Think further afield - you can go from a very primitive portable situation, to more of a long term field camp arrangement, to a permament station?
Less technological solutions and allowing for very small packages could be having a good crank generator hooked up to either a person peddling or to a domesticated animal of some kind (like a horse on a flour grinder)?
Someone else has already mentioned using Diesel generators - you could use biodiesel, take from visiting trucks tanks, or grow your own (too much like hard work)?
Do you have the ability to use 3rd party equipment? Eg, police, military, other peoples vehicles to charge batteries. What will the people who use your equipment have available that you might use / exchange?
If the deployment ends up being long term, can you request an additional deployment of equipment (eg, have a crisis kit with a diesel / fuel generator for short term, with a good solar kit to follow up)?
If the deployment ends up being long term, can you reduce the operating load on the system (eg, have fixed operating windows) to reduce fuel usage / improve solar effectiveness
Can you mix multiple energy sources (eg, very small generator for short term / emergencies, small solar for ongoing and possibly a crank generator of some kind.
How low can you get your energy budget? Are there lower power alternatives you can get?
How independent do you need to be?
Good Luck!
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RV supplies (Score:2)
hey there...here is a link (Score:1)
http://www.icpsolar.com/ [icpsolar.com]
they are global and have been used by the military, call them explain what you need, they do everything from rv, boat, camp, military, golf cart, houses, corporate....heck
if you want they can even send you someone to help you full time for your situation as they have contractors too, that could investigate what your needs are if you dont quite fully understand the
stuff you may need for your situation, nothign worse then being told to buy all
Some Clarification :) (Score:2, Informative)
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Solar power and details (Score:1)
Why? (Score:2)
After a disaster, you need something that's quick to set up, and very reliable. Solar, as altruistic as it sounds, is just going to be a distraction from actually helping people in need. You have to wait for batteries to charge, wait for sunlight, aim the panels...
Why not use a diesel generator? It's cheap, safe to store, proven technology, and can be "solar" if you choose to use bio-fuels. Besides, when you use diesel instead of solar, you'll have something that "just works."
Re:Why? - Renewable Energy (Score:1)