How Do You Get a Board Game Published? 123
cyclomedia asks: "I've been dedicating a little of my time to devising a strategy board game, pitched somewhere between Checkers and Chess but probably not as deceptively complex as Go. Without giving too much away I can tell you that there's a nerd factor within the game itself, possibly leaning the possibility of marketing towards the Games Workshop end of the spectrum, but without the 80-sided dice and Orcs. The next step in my plan is to see if I can actually create a prototype made of coins, stickers and cardboard, and then to attempt to teach the rules to my wife (she's a Trek fan, hence the marriage). If I get past that stage, presumably I can't just show up at Hasbro with my jerry rigged setup and expect an enthusiastic response. So, what do I do?"
Do it, but be persistent (Score:5, Informative)
The game publishing business seems very conservative. Many of the games that became classics over the last few decades were initially rejected by all of the major publishers: Mastermind, Monopoly, you name it. Even Sudoku took more than twenty years until it finally hit home.
A friend of mine developed the board game Friedrich [wikipedia.org], a strategy game about the Seven Years' War. It took him fifteen years to arrive at the final version, building very elaborate prototypes, and playing hundreds of games with friends who were acting as beta testers. The game was rejected by all major publishers he showed it to, mostly on the grounds that "it takes too long to play" (3-5 hours at least). After he'd mentioned that, every discussion was immediately over. My friend finally decided to publish the game himself, founding his own game publishing company. The game quickly achieved almost a cult following, both in Germany, where it was initially published, and in the US. I think some 4000 copies have been sold so far. It won the prize for the Best Historical Simulation by the American Games magazine in 2006.
So I'd say: Be prepared to go a long way, but it may well be worth it.
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With all due respect, my god, that game looks complicated. No wonder major publishers turned it down.
If you have a game with lots of rules and intricacies, I suspect you'd just about have to publish it yourself. I think that the big manufacturers are more interested in games that have mass appeal: games that are really simple to pick up and play, that take maybe five minutes to learn the rules and jump in, and that can be played by (and are at least somewhat interesting to) at least mid-teenagers.
I'm
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Professional quality boards are easy to do (Score:1, Informative)
Helpful hints:
1. Work on PNG files until you are ready to get them printed. Repeatedly modifying and re-saving a Jpeg will add noise each time the file is saved
2. Make each jpeg have 8 megapixel photo dimensions 3,264 x 2,448 pixe
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The second is, wow that sucks. 15 years to get it to market, 4000 copies, margins being what they are, say after all expenses he makes $3/copy sold.
$12,000.
Not so good.
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Re:Do it, but be persistent (Score:4, Insightful)
There are companies like Cheapass Games [cheapass.com], Loony Labs [looneylabs.com](thoguh I think they do all their stuff in house), Playroom Entertainment [playrooment.com] to name a few off the top of my head.
Also, the simpeler you can make the physical pieces of the game the better off you are I think. Can the "board" be cloth or some such? Will the pieces idealy be simple or complex (checkers, WH40K pieces, or soem where inbetween)?
The other thing to do is to go to Cons (SF/F and gaming). So long as they have a gaming room (for board/card games) you can find a good number of people who are in the field. Most of them will be Reps, but even they are good to talk to, and some times you will run into the actualy developers (or other people more closely tied to the company), especialy at larger cons. Just make sure you have a working copy of your game (I would suggest tryign to make it look good, over trying to emulate a proffessional distribution).
Good luck!
Re:Do it, but be persistent (Score:5, Funny)
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for giving us the chance to consider your game (sounds like a fun
concept), and we wish you the best of luck in finding a publisher.
Unfortunately, it cannot be us.
Looney Labs is still a small company and our own ideas greatly exceed our
capability to publish new products. It is difficult for us to imagine ever
running out
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however that book is a nice looking refference.
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Wasn't the Monopoly game initially stolen? There is some interesting interesting history behind it [wikipedia.org] at the very least..
I'm surprised at how old the game is.
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Alternately, and for zero cost to most gamers, you could just use 1d8 and 1d10. Multiply the d8's value by ten and subtract the number on the d10. Or, for ease, just use them as digits but read the 8 as a 0 with a 00 result indicating 80.
I used to keep a small plastic disc in my dice bag as a d2, and a marble as a d1. I always wanted to get an actual d3 made - a triangular prism with rounded ends. And I never did manage to come up wit
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That's cheating. Why not tesselate the sides of an icosahedron into fours?
I never said it was the best way to make a d80. I just said it would work for any even number. You can't tesselate any of the regular polyhedra to get a d14, for example.
I always wanted to get an actual d3 made - a triangular prism with rounded ends. And I never did manage to come up with a good d7 design.
You can buy d3's (e.g. http://www.dicecollector.com/D03_GAMESCIENCE_01.jp g [dicecollector.com]). You could do a d7 in a similar way, though I have not seen one. The d6's you can get do not have identical sides.
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oh wait, quick hunt around the net: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zocchihedron [wikipedia.org]
obviously 80 was a number i pulled out of my ass, sorry about that
Other way... (Score:4, Interesting)
And as everybody knows, it's better to have a game you like in nice box with good quality pieces, so they will buy it afterwards, thus guaranteeing some sales.
And be patient, very patient... I wish you luck!!!
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FOSS... (Score:2)
Perhaps there is a middle way, maybe i can just copyright the fundamental concept and then license sets, mods and expansions for sale - but allow plenty of fair use to create your
Print Cheaply (Score:3, Interesting)
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One solution to this problem, though, may be following the Cheapass rulebook to the letter. Print your own boards and rules, let people find their own pawns, etc., then sell through a site like Paizo [paizo.com] (which just happens to be how you buy Cheapass Games now). I don't have any idea h
The looks, the looks, the looks! (Score:4, Interesting)
Playability is important, but without looks you can't appeal to Joe Sixpack.
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IANAL, but you have to defend your copyrights or you risk losing them...
(Incidentally, that's actually true, if you're Disney and your idea of defending your copyrights involves lobbying.)
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--
Evan
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My limited experience involves working at a print shop.
We had a customer who designed a game and has now quit his job on the proceeds. He spent 1000's of dollars building prototypes over the course of a year or two. Unfortunately I don't know what he did with publishers or I could really be helpful.
I really doubt he would have gone anywhere without the nice look. he publishers probably get 1000's of pitches a month, make yours easier to publish (more complete) and they may actually
Have you tried? (Score:4, Informative)
Stop being so presumptious. Write to Hasbro with a brief concept of your game and see what they say. Get the game finished and balanced first. No publisher is interested in a half designed game. But don't worry about production values. Graphic designers can be hired by the publisher. And find some other people to help playtest the game. You might want to try a few other publishers as well [boardgamegeek.com].
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Come back when you have something (Score:5, Insightful)
2) You haven't taught it to anyone else, meaning
3) You haven't even played the "game"
4) You're already comparing it to chess
How about seeing if it's any good before you start thinking about selling it?
5) You don't want to give any details, because
6) You're worried about people stealing your idea
7) Which you haven't even shown to anyone else, which means
8) You haven't even done any basic steps towards finding out if it's worth stealing
How about embracing open development? Or at least a little less closed than "I need to do everything myself. If I ask the opinion of others, they might steal my idea! Which is definitely on par with chess! But not go, because I read that was awesome"
Do I sound hostile? That's because I am giving you advice and you don't want to hear it. Why did you ask for it?
Re:Come back when you have something (Score:5, Insightful)
"pitched somewhere between Checkers and Chess but probably not as deceptively complex as Go"
He (she?) obviously meant it in terms of the simplicity of the rules, and perhaps the amount of thought required for each turn. He doesn't expect it to become the next chess.
That said, if he hasn't even played the game, the whole discussion is pointless.
He should also try to explain the game to somebody with less patience than a wife. Some critical friends, for example.
Re:Come back when you have something (Score:5, Funny)
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Or for a real acid test, write out the instructions as you would expect them to be in the published game, get some friends to play it with nothing but the instructions and video them. That's all the help someone buying the game will generally get.
If you're heavily involved with something, other people will miss things that seem blindingly obvious to you.
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Does this person even exist?
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Just for the record (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, and Blood Bowl uses some custom dice, but they're just D6s with pictures instead of numbers.
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Also a d8 for scatter. I am so lame it hurts.
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Come to think of it, Necromunda might still use some odd dice as well.
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die 0:
1-3: +0
4-6: +1
die 1:
1-3: +0
4-6: +2
die 2:
1-3: +0
4-6: +4
Add them up and you get a number from 0-7. Add +1 to make it 1-8. Or modify die one to evaluate to +1 | +2.
Yeah, my friends never got it either. Probably didn't help that I kept referring to 'die 0'.
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It comes with a d8, however. I'm just sayin'...
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I guess if your probability can't be represented in base six... no dice!
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A better place... (Score:5, Informative)
You're almost certainly not going to be talking to Hasbro or GW - you're going to be talking (if you're lucky!) to people like Rio Grande, Uberplay, Kosmos, Mayfair, JKLM... If those names don't mean anything to you, get yourself over to http://www.boardgamegeek.com/ [boardgamegeek.com] and start reading
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I have several friends who have published, or are about to be published. It's not an easy task, and if you don't break out of that not telling anyone you'll get nowhere.
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And yes, I am a game designer and publisher. www.SpareBrainsGames.com.
Rule #2142 of start-up business... (Score:4, Insightful)
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I agree. If someone won't tell you their idea because they are afraid you might steal it, they probably don't very often have ideas and that's why they are so protective of it. If they don't often have ideas, they probably aren't very creative and so their idea probably isn't that good anyway.
Uncreative people over-rate the value of ideas. Ideas are easy - creative people have good ideas all the t
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Consider this game idea -
It's a card game you play by yourself. You deal cards out in to seven columns, all face up (the extra make an incomplete row). You are trying to move the cards around such that you can collect an entire suit (Ace to King) in a special location to the side. -- Freecell. That didn't give away any of the "secret" rules but gives
Re:Rule #2142 of start-up business... (Score:4, Funny)
It's sort of like checkers.
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Ideas are a dime a dozen. Good ones worth a little more. But it's IMPLEMENTATION that is worth their weight in gold.
Cheers
--
Why do modern MMORPS still have no concept of rock-climing, swimming, or ballooning?
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"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats."
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Nothing is wrong with having ideas, but they're just not that valuable. The people who come up with the ideas are far more valuable, but a lot of them don't even get off the ground because they do self-defeating things like (for example) insisting on confidentiality that job applicants (or worse, investors) sign NDAs prior to an interview/sales pitch.
Another common mistake is to get patents [tinaja.com], only to find out that people violate your patents anyway, and you can't afford to prosecute them, because you don'
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Go to some Gaming Cons (Score:5, Informative)
I know there is a big gaming Con in Denver Colorado, and Columbus Ohio. But there are undoubtedly more.
One guy's self-publishing story (Score:4, Interesting)
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Not as detailed as the VIKTORY II story, but still some good information.
Publish it yourself, online (Score:5, Interesting)
A friend of mine [randomviolence.net] is doing this at the moment. You can try out his board game by printing some levels and some of the pieces, and then, if you like it, you can buy the actual thing by cheque or Paypal. Seems to be doing well, he's making an expansion set at the moment.
Another thing you could do would be a computerised version of your game, offered for free online. That could be an excellent advert for the board version, but it would take a bit more investment...
Hasbro usually does not publish a single game (Score:2, Informative)
They will want to see your prototype, docs, etc.
They will ask you for feedback from betaplayers.
They will want you to give up your rights on marchandising material.
They will ask you to pay to get published in gaming magazines under Hasbro's influence.
If you fit in their marketing scheme, then they will offer you a contract where you have to create games on a regular basis.
Maybe up to 1 to 3 games a year.
Choose a smaller game publisher or you will regret you eve
Talking to game designers at GenCon... (Score:3, Interesting)
Admittedly, I have only met one game designer, but his strategy was to produce the game himself, and sell it at Cons and Comic Shops.
His key piece of advice: When you sell a copy, document it! Give the buyer a receipt and keep a copy. I believe he said (though please forgive me if I am remembering wrong) that no one really got interested until he had 100+ receipts in hand...demonstrating that the game was already starting to be a success.
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Talk to others who have done this (Score:2, Interesting)
cheapass games (Score:3, Informative)
It's a difficult and closed industry! (Score:3, Interesting)
I spent considerable time writing a two-player strategy board game. In fact, I've spent over five years play testing it with different people and refining the rules until it became quite fun and playable. I've developed notation for it as well, so games can be played by correspondence. It would appeal to any chess freak (of which I consider myself one) though aside from requiring two players there is no similarity. It has a beautiful and unique board that a friend and I designed. My goal in creating the game was to introduce a game that could trigger new and different ways of thinking in a collaborative strategy process toward central transcendence goals as opposed to one of conquest (such as chess or go).
Yeah yeah, it may sound complex, but no more so than chess, in fact it has fewer rules and as any serious strategy game enthusiast understands, it's not so much the rules as the intricacies of play that inspire.
I've researched many board game companies in earnest. I looked for those that produced quality designer games (Gigamic, for example) to large multinationals (Megabloks). I wrote nice introductory letters to them. I included overview teasers of the game concept without revealing too much (just to get their interest but protect my idea), and I included my own game NDA from a lawyer.
The responses I got were typically that the companies wanted me to send the rules but would not sign an NDA (in other words, once receiving the rules, they'd potentially be able to develop it and never give credit where credit was due). That is a reality, an experienced, professional game designer warned me about it.
From the game company's perspective of course, they've got to be careful too. They live in fear that if they see something submitted from outside their company, and just happen to be developing something similar on their own, that they'll wind up getting sued. One company persistantly asked me to send them my prototype (of which I made several) but refused to sign the NDA for this very reason. Some companies have their own NDAs, and I've found that sometimes these are sufficient because they seem to have wording that protects both parties (but not always!). At one point, Megabloks signed an NDA with me and they play-tested my prototype but unfortunately my game was just totally out of the realm of the sort they publish. That's to say that even though game companies may like to get good ideas, most are really closed to anyone that is not already in their industry or better, employed by them.
So I'm still looking, considering saving my money to self-publish it, but it's not cheap and I'm not wealthy. My other dream objective for the game, which I have yet to fully lay out in detail would be to form some sort of co-op that involved a few free and open source developers, which would be interested in making a networked electronic (client/server) version of the game (like all those FICS/chess servers) that exist. I would love to see it spread all over and feel like having an electronic FOSS version would really help popularize it in terms of getting a company interested in distributing a physical version of the game. I've always felt that it would be incredibly appealing to sell a physical board game with an online subscription included and a FOSS version makes sense if not for the philosophy for the simple fact that it would be the most efficient way to jumpstart its spread. I dunno, maybe someone is interested in collaborating on that.
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Card games are easy to prototype, usually quick to play, and accessible to most people. Publishers like them because they can easily retool existing production lines. Once you have that, you've become an established game designer, and other publishers will be more willing to talk to you.
Of course, pure strategy games (which I assume this is an example of) are a hard sell. Even serious board
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Either you wish the game to be open, or you don't. Choose one.
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The point is that if you do something in a FOSS fashion you're licensing it in a way , which confers certain rights and attribution. If you bring it to a company without an NDA, you put yourself in a place to potentially lose all rights or the possibility of attribution.
In other words, one way (the FOSS way) can enable well-understood and accepted controls for efficient distribution, collaboration, and attribution, while th
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Have you decided on an open source license yet ? It appears as though you'd like to retain the sole rights to publish the non-electronic version of the game. Would you allow a fork that allowed printing of the board/cards/whatever else ?
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You could try SJ Games.. (Score:3, Informative)
Read the guidelines for submitting card- and boardgames [sjgames.com]..
Also check out the Author Guidelines [sjgames.com] for submitting other types of content.
(Unfortunately, they seem to be rather busy at the moment..)
Good luck!
Friend Experience (Score:2)
Post at sites like http://www.iwanttomakeit.com/ [iwanttomakeit.com] that you are looking for piece/board/instructions makers. Once you have some prototypes, go by your local game stores and see if they will sell it in their stores. Leave a copy of the prototype if you want (make them sign a DBA if you haven't done an
GAMA or Germany (Score:1)
advice from actual designers & publishers (Score:3, Informative)
The concensus was that getting your game published is generally an inside job. This is not to say that outsiders have no hope; rather, it is to say that the path to enlightenment (getting published) lies through opening dialogue with designers & publishers through established means - online forums, attending trade shows, etc. It's much more a face-to-face industry - people like to know who they're working with.
The single key element that was reinforced over and over was PLAYABLE PROTOTYPE. Common advice was not to spend money on production values for said prototype, but rather to spend that time and effort making the game playable and enjoyable, and to put tremendous effort into making the rules comprehensive and readily understandable. Apparently nothing irks publishers more than getting a gaudy prototype with an incomprehensible rules sheet and unexplained/missing parts, unless it's some guy waving his hands and insisting his game is 'so awesome' without producing a prototype of any sort at all.
From someone with a published game (Score:3, Informative)
I'm in Austin, so the reference to Steve Jackson Game might not be as convenient for you as it is for me, but the concept of getting with people who actually make/sell games isn't a bad thought. Also, an earlier response talked about making it "printer-ware", which my published friend indicates that she and her husband do....in fact, she indicates that she might be open to putting it on her site (instant traffic, just not sure of how much).
Good luck on your efforts, but don't hope for anything quick. Unless it's an awesome game, expect years of effort.
Layne
Trade shows? (Score:2)
First hit on google... (Score:2)
Board Game Invention & Self-Publishing Resources [spotlightongames.com]
cheap ass games (Score:2)
Some old friends of mine in Seattle went through this a number of times, until they just decided to start their own "label" of board games. Their gimmick was to produce great new games that used pieces you probably already have from other board games. They don't ship dice, don't ship tokens, don't ship player pawns, don't need much in the way of special cards. They ship a board and an instruction sheet. (I think you CAN buy a higher-priced complete set from them, if you're expecting to play on a mounta
Re:cheapass games (Score:1)
My friends and family like "Give Me The Brain", and the "BRAWL:" sets, but our favorite of those is "Light Speed" [cheapass.com].
Keep at it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't get discouraged, keep playtesting and refining the game and your prototypes, make sure you keep ahold of any patents/copyrights/trademarks that result from the game's creation, and keep pitching it at board game companies til it sticks... baring all that, if you get to a point where you cannot do any more refining or playtesting, and no other company has taken it on, go ahead and found your own company.
http://www.deepthoughtgames.com/ [deepthoughtgames.com] is a low volume board game publisher. They might be able to help you out in getting your game looking "professional", and perhaps using eBay, or another "storefront" website, you can start selling your game, the costs would be relatively low.
Here is a book... (Score:2)
There's also The Toy & Game Inventor's Guide [amazon.com], but it's rather old. It's pre-internet, which means the whole world has changed. However, it still has some really good stuff on the legal side of things, so you might see if a local library has it anyhow.
If you haven't already, I would definitely say make a few pro
Do it yourself gaming (Score:1)
Catan on Xbox Live (Score:2)
Apparently Xbox Live will be selling an online multiplayer version of the boardgame
this Spring. 'Pretty sweet.
@ college? (Score:1)
Zillions of Games (Score:2)
If your game has hidden information which is only know to one player, then Zillions can't handle that, but if your pu
Self-Publishing. (Score:2)
Under no circumstances should you consider talking to a large existing corporation. If they decide to steal your idea for themselves, you will likely not be able to mount enough of a legal challenge to stop them.
The thing about games is that the game itself has to be compelling in the long term in order for it to
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Days of Wonder (Score:2)
One thing you should definitely not do.... (Score:1)
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Producing Your Game (Score:2, Interesting)
GenCon Indy (Score:4, Insightful)
I see a few people have said it but I'm amazingly surprised at how FEW people have said it! Take your game to GenCon Indy. It's the biggest gaming convention in the world. Buy a 4 day badge and go sit in the board game room and put your game out there. Set up near the end of a table that is near a doorway into the room. Stand by your game and ask people as they enter the room and inevtiably walk past your table if they're interested in playing a game with you. You'd be surprised at just how many people WANT to play random games with random people. I have played random games with random people every year I have gone all because they came up to me and asked, except last year because no one asked. It will give you a lot of exposure to people, free playtesting, and you'll have a good idea of how many people find your game interesting. About twenty six thousand people attend GenCon Indy so you're bound to find people who will be more than willing to play your game.
Tell the people who play that it is a new game that is still being designed. A lot of people will jump at the opportunity. I constantly hear people trying to pull bragging rights with something like this: "Yeah, that brand new game that just came out, I played it years ago with the guy who made it. I even gave inspired rule X when I did Y." There is an entire species of gamer looking for opportunities to jump on situations like this.
You can even go so far as to print out small feedback cards and ask the people who have just played your game if they would be willing to fill it out. Some will fill it out and some will not. But, any gaming company will probably already understand the basic percentages about quantity of feedback and be able to determine how many people actually played the game. Additionally, you can keep your own tally of how many people played.
You can also try registering it as an official GenCon event. You can setup a one hour game event that just repeats all day and costs people one ticket ($1.50) to play for an hour. You just setup on a table assigned to you by GenCon and people don't register for the time slots, but they stop by with generic tickets to play your game. I and everyone I know always buy about $20 - $30 in generic tickets in case we see something we want to play that we didn't know existed. This will help give you a real tally of the number of people who played your games and GenCon staff should be able to give you an official tally of the number of tickets you collected. This can be used when you approach a game manufacturer to give them an idea of the game's potential for success. Do this for a few years and see how it goes. Don't be dismayed at low numbers the first time around as it may take a few years to build up awareness. Also, don't be afraid to get on the online forums (including GenCon's forum) and start advertising your game. Let people know it will be at GenCon and let people know what to look for and where to find you.
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ProtoSpiel (Score:2)
http://www.protospielwest.com/ [protospielwest.com]
The hosts and speakers will discuss how the process of publishing a game works.
Joseph Elwell.