Repair Computer, Repurchase OS? 453
An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I have been bit by a computer repair on an e-Machines computer that involved a system board replacement. Though this was strictly a repair, not an upgrade, neither MS or e-Machines will provide for activation of the system. Why should a user have to purchase another copy of XP after repairing a computer? The system board is listed on the e-Machines website, but costs 4x what an off-the-shelf board with the same chip-set/capabilities costs, and furthermore is not actually available. The e-Machines rep even said repurchasing XP was my only option. This seems to me patently unfair and of questionable legality. Is it possible that there are enough disgruntled consumers bit by this problem to generate a class-action lawsuit?"
Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:5, Informative)
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Easy compared to what? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure it's easy relative to what they could put you through, but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"? Especially when Microsoft have gone out of their way to make it more complicated than it needs to be.
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Actually, speaking absolutely, it *is* easy. Relatively speaking (in relation to how we think it should be) is when it becomes difficult.
Re:Easy compared to what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, speaking absolutely, it *is* easy. Relatively speaking (in relation to how we think it should be) is when it becomes difficult.
Re:Easy compared to what? (Score:5, Funny)
If that were true, we'd all be out flirting with girls instead of fiddling with our computers and posting on Slashdot.
(Just kidding, in a yeah-but-maybe-there's-something-to-it way.)
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Meaning. . . . Get over it.
Re:Easy compared to what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me like someone might have a good ADA case here -- why should I not be allowed to use something legally purchased because I am forced to jump through hoops that I can't jump through because of a physical disability? To me, this is as bad as a failure to install a wheelchair ramp.
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Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.
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Microsoft has done a damn good job of exclusively promoting its products to Dell, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard, and other Lenovo-compatible PC manufacturers such that nobody else's home OS products are advertised in mainstream media.
Er, doesn't the phrase "Hi, I'm a Mac" sound familiar to you?
No. I've seen Mac commercials on YouTube, but I hardly ever see them on cable television compared to Dell, Gateway, and HP commercials.
That's because Apple doesn't advertise on porn channels.
what is crazy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.
Activation is what's crazy, along with WGA!!! Because of these, MS has forced me to switch to Linux and Macs.
FalconRe: (Score:3, Funny)
1. Upgrade your computer
2. Call up Microsoft.
3. Sue their sorry asses
4. Profit!!!!!
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Re:Easy compared to what? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The moral of the story: steal Windows.
It's not worth the money anyway.
But it's a funny world we live in, where stealing seems to bring you elss trouble than buying - and that's leaving money out of the equation.
I mean, really... if you buy Windows, you didn't really buy it as such. You bought a license to use it on one computer under the exact conditions provided by Microsoft, take it or leave it.
If you steal it, however... why, you don't have a worry in your life (BSA is not all-powerful, after all) -
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Perhaps we're basing our business model on a level of honesty that doesn't exist in human beings?
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Re:Easy compared to what? (Score:5, Funny)
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Personally I have less of a moral problem "stealing" things that are locked down, than things that are opened up. I pay for shareware and most of my entertainment. But having to jump through hoops to run Windows? That's why I recommend Unix or MacOSX. That and the fact that they're so superior.
Maybe Microsoft could
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Personally, I find it funny ironic that Microsoft attained their present state of near-monopoly on the backs of the very pirates that they are now working so hard to close down.
I find it even more ironic that they choose to be much more lenient towards piracy in the developing world where they have still not managed to attain the state of vendor lock-in that is required in order for them to successfull
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Replaced a MB on my homebuilt with the closest match available and had to call em to explain but no real problems with my XP OEM.
What exactly did MS say?
If the board is so much, would another board and another OEM XP be cheaper. Not that i believe it is needed. Replacing it with the nearest match available really should be enough.
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Anyone who complains that they need to reactivate their system and is worried about having to "justify" it to Microsoft is talking shit. 3 minutes with barely 3 bars of hold music, you get to an operator - "I had to replace my graphics card because it exploded", or "my laptop died and Sony repaired it" - both real events here, and they shrug and say "thanks".
It's just so they can enter it into their logs on how things are used. I think it'
Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:4, Informative)
In fact I recently had a pretty identical case to the original poster's query. A friend's e-machine had a blown mobo + processor due to a faulty PSU. I changed the parts across, booted, hit the product activation, phoned the Freephone support number and I didn't even need to speak to a person - the IVR system doled out a new activation code with no hassle.
Admittedly, if the activation hadn't gone as planned I'd just have dug out my VLK edition and performed an in-place upgrade...
F_T
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Nah, that doesn't work. You just get "The fingers you are using to dial with are too fat. To order a special dialing wand, mash the keypad now."
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I found that the system had a bit of trouble recognising two subsequent instances of the same digit, and slowed down my input a bit. Sure, it was a bit tedious, but got an activation code from the IVR just fine. However I did notice the automated line was more than a bit glitchy with dropouts and distortion on the line - it's the type of thing the telco I used to work for wouldn't have considered acceptable.
F_T
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Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
Try to activate online
When it rejects and gives you the phone number, call it
Enter the confirmation ID
When you finally get someone from Bangladesh on the phone, they will ask if this is the first time it's been activated, and how many computers it's been installed on.
REGARDLESS of what work you've done, tell them "It's a reinstall after a virus infection.. This is the only machine it's installed on"
They'll give you a long ass number to punch in, and you're done.
Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:5, Informative)
The article poster might want to refer to this page on computer repair [michaelstevenstech.com], which covers the OEM license. Generally, Microsoft will not require a new OS license for a motherboard replacement that is truly a replacement (i.e., same OEM/model). If you're trying to replace the box with a non-OEM motherboard, you're hosed, because this is not in compliance with the OEM license agreement, which is different from the retail EULA.
If you're replacing with the same/equivalent OEM motherboard, then just state immediately that the repair/upgrade was made in compliance with the OEM EULA right away, as this will save you a lot of time and hassle.
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Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:4, Informative)
However, it sounds like the problem is coming from the install media; perhaps a partition on the drive that copies over a disk image, or maybe an OEM install that checks for the correct hardware? I think the best thing to do would be to go download/find/borrow a real Windows XP disk of the correct "flavor"; probably Home, possibly Media Center, etc. If he does have the actual disk, he could try creating a pre-install environment using BartPE [nu2.nu] and then adding in the extra drivers for his mobo, but it's probably better to just find a disk.
Once he actually gets it installed, he'll probably have trouble activating it, which will involve calling Microsoft and going through the following song and dance:
1. Give the computer your product key.
2. It will fail, and transfer you to a representative.
3. They ask for the last 6 digits you gave to the automated system; give it to them and state you are reinstalling Windows XP.
4. They will ask you several questsions, answer as follows:
a) Is it installed only on this computer? Yes.
b) Did you pirate the software or (sometimes) are you using the same OEM disk? Yes.
c) Are you reinstalling Windows XP? Yes.
Usually at this point they will give you the magic 42 digit number to make your computer yours again. Occasionally, they will ask about hardware upgrades, in which case you have two options: 1) tell them the truth and don't get your copy to activate, or 2) outright lie. If your scruples won't let you do the latter, you can tell the representative you have something else to go do (probably true), and call back later, hoping for a less diligent employee. As I stated above, I've used this process to switch Windows XP Home OEM licenses to computers with entirely different hardware, so I can't imagine a motherboard giving you too much trouble.
Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft? (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like a brilliant plan.
They're still flexible (Score:2)
I've even had a Compaq Athlon laptop die and replaced it with a whitebox PC that ran a Core 2 Duo, and they gave me an activation key for the OEM copy of XP over the phone. They didn't even give me a hard time about it, and I didn't even have to make up some lame story. I told them exactly what I was doing, and why I was doing it. They asked me if the copy of Windows was only installed on a single working machine, I said ye
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My copy of XP isn't OEM though, which may be an issue...Still, that's about as big an upgrade as you can get and they didn't even blink.
exactly... (Score:2)
Can I change or upgrade my hardware components?
MPA can tolerate some change in hardware components by allowing a degree of difference between the current hash value and the hash value that was originally activated. Users can change hardware components without having to reactivate the product. If users make substantial changes to their hardware components, even over long periods of time, they may have to reactivate the product. In that case, users may have to contact a Microsoft customer se
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OEM licenses are never supposed to be transfered unless it is an underwaranty repair. However, the transfer can be done if you sweet talk the Microsoft contractor. I think that if a client of mine got stuck this way, I would tell MS I had an extended waranty contract with them.
There was a policy announcement for Vista that full copies could only be transfered once, the outcry about this was such that MS announced that is was a mistake and that things would go b
IIRC.... (Score:4, Funny)
P.S. - This should also blossom into a beautiful flame war, I would recommend hot cocoa with marshmallows for viewing it.
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But, cocoa and marshmallows sounds good to me. I'll join you.
increments (Score:2)
Yeah, I know it's stupid.
Re:increments (Score:5, Informative)
Intel D850MD motherboard
Intel Pentium 4 2.2 Ghz CPU
512 MB Rambus
Radeon 7000
80 GB Western Digital HDD
CD-RW
DVD-ROM
I then replaced the motherboard with a Soyo P4S Dragon Ultra (or something like that) and bought generic DDR RAM.
Then I bought a GeForce 5200 FX
When my motherboard's AGP port got flaky, I replaced it with a Soyo P4S-D
Then I added an Adaptec 1200A and two Seagate 120 MB HDDs on RAID 0 and reinstalled my OS on them
When my 5200FX was damaged by THAT AGP port getting flaky, I bought an Abit IC7-MaxIII and went with a different Radeon 7000 due to budget constraints.
I finally got around to getting a better CPU--a P4 3.0E and switched to high-end Corsair RAM.
Then I bought a Radeon X850 Pro as the last semi-high-end component to go in this system prior to a planned upgrade and switch to Vista this summer.
Some time In there I replaced my optical drives with a DVD+-RW, and several small hard drives have been in and out to back up data as I changed partitioning schemes twice.
I've had to call MS three times to have the license reactivated. All three times I've explained that I was replacing bad components or upgrading various things, and all three times they've not given me any grief on reactivation. The anonymous submitter is either doing something wrong, is clueless, or is trolling.
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All things considered, it's a minor inconvenience. It takes longer to download and isntall OpenOffice than it does to call MS to get Windows reactivated. I know this because on my last reinstall that's exactly what I did...start OOo downloading and call at the same time. Multitasking ftw.
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video (possibly, even if "off")
audio
processor
hdd controller
network
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They have no way of knowing. (Score:4, Informative)
They simply have no way of knowing.
That's always a problem with OEM OS loads.This Quick Reference [arstechnica.com] Should clear up some issues for those who are not already aware.
I always figure in a new OEM copy whenever a board goes. You'll waste more time than is neccessary to try to save $139.00, but you saved a lot of money buying that replacement board from NewEgg [newegg.com]. It sucks but other than sending it to (in this case EMachines) neither Microsoft -or- EMachines have no idea what happened to your hardware that your OEM OS is tied to.
eMachines (Score:2, Interesting)
I know two people who lost their power supplies within a couple of weeks of each other. In one case, the failure of the power supply apparently wiped out the motherboard and in the other case, the failur eof the power supply appears to have wiped out the CPU.
I'm not at all sure that it is worth replacing the motherboard or CPU.
I appreaciate learning this because it certainly increases the cost of getting it back up and running.
Re:eMachines (Score:5, Funny)
Really? You are having doubts about the quality of one of the least expensive computers on the market???? I'm shocked. Totally shocked. I would have never expected in a million years that the quality of such a low-priced, low-end machine wasn't very good....
I think you should immediately turn over the machine to the Geek Squad, and pay them big bucks to tell you that, indeed, the eMachine is a pile of crap. Those guys know. They are experts after all...
What? Was that a little too sarcastic?
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You end up taking the shaft even from working with a high end desktop from an industry leader. I got so tired of buying high end Dell's for 4,000 a pop, and then having them be a big non-upgradable paperweight 3 years later...All the internal mounts on their cases are proprietary, power
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True that. My $90 Antec case is now 8 years old and has the original power supply. Everything else just came and went: 2 motherboards (think also CPU, RAM), 2 hard drives, 3 graphics cards. It's big and heavy, but it saved me a heap of money for being a pretty decent gaming rig that it is.
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So after hearing that, she takes it in to Geek Squad, hears the exact same thing I told her, and then is told that it would cost over $300 just to replace the mobo. She ends up paying $40 to have them transfer the files off of her hard drive (whic
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eMachines are made cheap, yeah (tho somewhat better now that they're owned by Gateway) but at least you get what little you pay for. You can pay 4x as much for a Dell that is no better quality and is often worse. (Dells may =look= better, but their consumer systems often use ev
Call for an activation code... (Score:4, Informative)
Have you actually called MS? It's pretty friggin' easy.
Ask to talk to their manager (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends.... (Score:4, Funny)
Now if it's a WGA problem, that's a different story. You'll have to call Microsoft up for that one. Assuming you're not an ass when you call up, you shouldn't have much problem getting them to issue you a new key or something.
Read your license agreement. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can't understand your license agreement, get a lawyer to help you read it.
If you don't like what it says, get a different OS vendor.
And please don't mod me down for trolling - it really is important for people to understand the licenses for the stuff they buy - otherwise groups like the RIAA can walk all over everyone. If people started taking EULAs seriously and tried to understand them, more companies would start using reasonable EULAs.
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Re:Read your license agreement. (Score:4, Informative)
Time for a new computer (Score:3, Insightful)
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your old system may have more ram then new one and the new one may use differnt ram that you can move over form the old one. DDR2 is not that much faster then DDR1 and 1gb - 2gb of ram is faster then havening 512mb.
your old system may have a big IDE HD that is bigger then what comes with a newer lowend system and the newer system may only have 1 ide port that is being used by the cd / dvd drive.
your ol
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Just pirate it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just pirate it (Score:4, Insightful)
The trend seems to favor this; every time I see a news item on Slashdot along these lines I give a small cheer. Let's hope that MS and DRM really make stealing Vista a much bigger big pain in the neck.
Only Old People Repair Computers Now (Score:2)
Not an activation issue (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not an activation issue (Score:4, Interesting)
Vis-a-vis the licensing, Microsoft can blow it out their ass. You purchase a license to run Windows XP when you buy the system, meaning you've paid money to Microsoft. Microsoft can throw all the legalese garbage into the EULA that they like and a court will tell them just where to stick it if they try going after someone doing what I just described above.
Re:Not an activation issue (Score:4, Informative)
When it comes to activation, it will most likely tell you that your product key is invalid. I'm not sure exactly why (my best guess is that they use some kind of generic volume key when they install it the first time), but all you need to is click the "Telephone" button, hit the drop-down menu for your country, and then dial the toll-free number provided. (1-888-571-2048 for USA) You'll get an automated system that blathers on until it finally says "ok, let's get started." At this point, hit 0 on your phone (the system will tell you something like "I see you would like to talk to a representative blah blah blah"), then hit 1. This will connect you to a live human (in India I believe) who can talk more or less plain English, and at any rate understands the numbers you tell them a great deal better than the automated system does. They'll ask you for the first 6 numbers, tell you they need a few seconds to validate it, then they'll ask you some questions. (What software are you activating today? Is this the first time you are activating this software? On how many other computers is this software installed?) After one or two of these questions they'll ask you for the rest of the numbers (you don't need to read the first 6 again). Then they'll say they need a few seconds to validate those, and ask you a couple of the questions (which may or may not be the exact same questions they asked you 30 seconds earlier). Then they'll read off the confirmation numbers 3 at a time, which you'll type in the boxes, and that's pretty much it.
Re:Not an activation issue (Score:4, Informative)
After punching in the numbers, the system still fails to activate -- because Microsoft locks major brand OEM keys to a single automated activation -- but then you do not have to repeat all 50-brazillion digits vocally to the person on the other end.
I'm not sure where Microsoft's call center is for that, but I suspect they have several. Once I got into a queue where the recording and the person on the other end both had very British accents.
And now back to the topic at hand: I've seen many motherboards replaced in OEM PCs, and never had a problem getting a key from Microsoft, but I also used generic OEM media and not the CD provided by the manufacturer.
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If it had required a rebuild, I may have looked at my 7-in-1 disc or the VLK edition, but as it happened no reinstallation was necessary - X
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I wish they'd give the option of OEM install or blank system with retail box version, but nooooo, rather than your first act of ownership being spending
You are screwed.. (Score:5, Informative)
I was pretty pissed. I felt like I had paid for this OS in the first place, I should have the right to reinstall it as necessary -- from hardware changes/failures/upgrades/whatever. It turns out you don't with most OEMs. A recovery disk is all they are required to provide.
Here's the link to the forum over at thegreenbutton.com (Windows Media Center site) that tells my tail of woe and what I learned.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/160224.as
Basically, you're screwed without at least on OEM copy of Windows. Then you can at least hack it. If all you've got is a recovery disk than you are hosed. THe same goes for all software that is preinstalled on your drive. You got Word preinstalled? And you changed your mobo? Whoops--it's a new computer now! No software/OS for you!
I'd love to hear if someone's challenged this in court -- it seems pretty anti-consumer, although I'm sure OEMs save a ton of money and hassle with recovery disks....
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If you swapped the exact same chipset, then... (Score:2, Informative)
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Gee... (Score:2, Funny)
This key thing is annoying (Score:2)
Apple offers a reasonable 5-pack "Family License" for less than the price of two installs, and they don't seem to make you jump through these hoops.
And I like Linux's pricing even better.
I'm slowly reducing the numbers of Windows PCs in my house. When each one dies of windows rot, I try to move required functionality (games, mostly) onto another PC and replace the common functionality (web browsing, music playing, writing do
Easy. Talk to microsoft. (Score:2)
Call Microsoft product activation center.
Tell them the following thing:
"I need to reactivate my copy of Windows, since I had to replace my motherboard due to a defect."
They will activate it. If neccessary, they will give you a new product key. You may have to provide your current key (off your emachines system). Complain until they do.
(confirmed to work at least in Finland. Dunno if in US they have different procedures or rules, but here b
That's all. (Score:2)
I would have bought a copy of Windows XP by now, but I would rather pirate it than ask their permission every time I reinstall it or change my BIOS settings. I don't care how it works.
Especially for something as important as the OS.
Crack it and give 'em the finger. (Score:2)
Or install Linux, which amounts to the same message.
Didn't the author state... (Score:2)
As someone stated before, if it isn't OEM it is against the EULA.
Bullshit (Score:3, Informative)
Unless you're a total ass, that is. I've seen (yes, actually watched) people calling up MS Support, and as soon as they get through they launch into a 10 minute diatribe on how this is so horrible, they hate it, they want their key NOWNOWNOW or they're wiping that piece of shit and putting Linux on it. Then the MS rep usually tells them to go fuck themselves.
Hell, I've even put non-oem components in it, MS doesn't seem to care, although the mobo is probably the kicker as it'll have OEM bios and such, but I've still replaced those, called up and told them I replaced it because the manufacturer doesn't carry this replacement anymore, and they gave it to me anyways.
So, I call FUD on this crap. Class action my ass.
Simple Reason (Score:2)
Why should a user have to purchase another copy of XP after repairing a computer?
Because consumers would rather have it this way, that's why. Or, because Microsoft/E-machines tell you to.
Microsoft has a history of committing felonies and suing their customers. What led you to believe that they weren't going to shaft you.
My question to you is this: Knowing how MS treats their customers, why did you expect that they would treat you of all people, fairly?
I don't see how. (Score:3, Informative)
emachines (Score:3, Informative)
This summer's run on emachine deaths is indicative of a very cheap power system in their design and probably should result in a class-action lawsuit itself, if ever the numbers are correlated.
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This issue had NOTHING to do with choice of OS. It only had to do with Windows and what could be done about hardware-change-invalidation of it.
I love Linux. If it played all my Windows games, Kubuntu would be the only OS on my system. But that has nothing to do with this issue.
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Yes
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totally misses the sarcasm of the "Perhaps there's a reason why long posts full of links are considered lame..." response?
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I guess its possible that this is true, but I find it a bit hard to believe. I have to do this all the time and I don't think its ever taken much over 5-10 minutes. It was probably about 10 minutes the first time, but now that I know the drill its really quick.
It's like I said (Score:5, Insightful)
But if you have a Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, eMachines, regardless of what MS says about activation, that machine is licensed forever. It has to be, since none of those machines offers machines to the U.S. public without Windows. And yes, I'm aware of the Dell "N" series. I don't think it makes any difference.
That's the lie of the statement that 25% of all Windows installs are illegal. How can that be when almost every computer already comes with the license.
I know (Score:2)
This presumes that the MS clerk on the other end doesn't just throw the judgement in the trash or