Getting Out of Tech Support? 152
An anonymous reader asks: "For the last year or so I've been working in 1st line tech support at a small call centre that's part of a much larger outsourcing company and to be honest it's sucking the life out of me, I want change but I don't know what direction to take in order to get out and I really need some advice from others who have made the jump. I suppose what I'd like to know is what kind of jobs one should be looking for coming from technical support with decent knowledge of UNIX, networking, scripting and 'light coding'. Is there any hope for me or will I have to go back to school in order to even have employers look at my resume?"
I'm in my mid-twenties and I've taken a number of college-level courses, a couple of those being computer engineering courses, some math and a few others that I found interesting, in the process I also managed to procure a fairly large amount of debt in the form of student loans, nothing I can't handle but I don't really want more debt although going back to get a degree is one possibility. I'm not entirely sure what I want to do except that I want to do something a bit more "real", to actually fix problems instead of just talking to customer after customer and then submitting tickets for someone else to fix the problem. From what I've understood from older acquaintances moving from tech support to other positions was actually a good way to go back when a lot of companies handled their own tech support, but for me there isn't much of a career path at this company as we only handle 1st line support, 2nd line and all above is done by the client companies themselves.
I'd really like to get more into sysadmin type work, or at least something where you spend more time solving problems and managing systems than you do arguing with irrate customers over how they have to call customer service for billing questions as technical support can't handle those problems."
I'd really like to get more into sysadmin type work, or at least something where you spend more time solving problems and managing systems than you do arguing with irrate customers over how they have to call customer service for billing questions as technical support can't handle those problems."
Get some certifications. (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember:
Certifications prove you know something.
Degree's prove you can stick with something and are willing to invest time in something.
References prove you've worked with people.
Experience proves you've been trusted to do the job by someone.
Re:Get some certifications. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just go home and and do it (Score:4, Insightful)
My advice to anyone thinking of trying something new technically? Go home and and do it. Just start. In this case, get old computers, install Linux on them and set up a network with a proxy, web and mail servers. Or get a book on programming and install a compiler. There is a world of free tools and information out there, just actively explore instead of sitting on your ass fretting about your dead end job. You'll probably find something that inspires you, and that will be the force that will pull you into doing it. A good education is best if you can get it, but you can also make good money if you take the time to teach yourself, for example how to set up office networking. *Actually having done it* and fiddled with it until you really understood it is what is going to translate into success. For example, the person who's post I'm replying to will be more impressed if you tell him you figured it out yourself. Then you can volunteer to get experience or get certs if you have to. You should at least be able to find something that makes it easier to pay off your loans and get back into school.
Disclaimer: it's easy for me to say this as I have a degree and am a senior engineer. However, I'd equate what you gain from one university course to taking on a new kind of project or reading a good technical book. And I have worked with a senior kernel engineer who'd graduated with a music degree, and an artist who became one of the best Maya programmers, recognized as a Maya Master by Alias. I also recently changed specialities by taking this advice. Try before you buy, and if you like it, it suddenly gets a lot easier to switch.
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It's very rare to find someone with the precise combination of vendor specific certifications, and it's actually much more useful to find someone with experience in the 'relevant area' e.g. 'has done firewalls' rather than 'has
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Remember that the initial screening is likely to be done by some HR idiot who wouldn't know PHP from PCP, and they're just operating off of keyword searches.
I recently myself escaped the hell that is tech support (It's the ditch digging of the IT industry.) I gathered Linux, PHP, Perl, Apache and MySQL experience along the way through independent efforts, and have a job now where one
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I wound up turning the position down for another one, ironically a few blocks away from them, for a company that uses them as an in
Ignore this parent. (Score:2)
My wife works as a
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While there's usefulness associated with it, I feel the same way about that as you do about A+. If you require a CCNA, I don't want to work for you. You can find out in 10 minutes of an interview if someone could pass a CCNA.
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I do all my own hardware work. In fact, I've gone over all the materials for the A+ exam and even filled in some small gaps in my knowled
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If you wish to go into the server OS administration arena, listing A+ suggests that you don't have enough skills directly related OS administration and are attempting to sway the recruiter with shiny objects.
Get certification that is related to your career path, ignore those that have no bearing on what you wish to do. CCNA, MCSA/E/whatever, or LAMP certification of any sort are all steps t
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It was valid in the Microsoft arena ten years ago. I don't think it is anymore. The last person you want in your IT shop is someone who knows just enough to be dangerous.
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Yes, but you interviewed him, and that's the point. I interview countless mindless drones as well, but the certifications and other paper trail get him past the HR interviewing process. Some of them turn out to have some actual skills. We all know its a flawed process, but the goal is to actually GET the interview. Beyond that, actual skills, experience, and personal
certification - breadth (Score:2)
That's why even "rote memorization" can be very important. Who is faster, the experienced code jockey who can whip out a set of classes within a few days, or the noob who knows that the problem has already been solved in a s
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Step two is to get your resume to as many head hunters as possible, this can bite you in the ass if you are applying to a job that has already received your resume from a contra
Re:Get some certifications. (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, I would recommend that you try to work out a way of getting a degree that builds on the courses that you already took, which should save some money, and also features work experience. This can be an excellent way to get good things onto your CV, get hands-on experience in other areas (not just technical areas!) and make useful contacts for later.
Also, something to bear in mind for the future: I find that it pays to look at the career path a job offers, not just the immediate benefits. Make sure that you can go up the ladder, but also sideways in a couple of different directions. After three years of tech support, I went to pre-sales support, which is a whole different kettle of fish, but hugely rewarding in its way.
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"+" Certs aren't worth the paper their printed on. A waste of time and money, no matter how cheap and easy. If you want a cert, go for LPI (fits your Unix background) or something.
certs are useless without experience (Score:2, Insightful)
One of the biggest mistakes I've seen people make is to get certified for something which they have no professional experience. The only that does is to waste recruiters time. The cert ends up with a bunch of phone calls from headhunters that see the cert on a resume that end in this:
recruiter: how much experience do you have with X ...
applicant: none
recruiter:
phone line: click.
But having a cert + experience will get you far more interviews than experience alone and in situations where it's you bein
Work in a University IT dept. (Score:2, Informative)
The advice about reading books and installing Linux on your PC will only get you so far. Becuase what you lack is experience of theings that can and do go wrong in a working network of machi
Networking (Score:2)
Lean on all the friends you had in high school. Sign up to a site like http://www.linkedin.com/ [linkedin.com] which is basically a job search site that uses networking to help you be more successful in your search... you'll be surprised how many people you know are "linked" with people offering jobs. (Or "linked" with people in the kind of big companies who are always hiring talent, regardless of their job listings.)
well.. (Score:2)
Re:well.. (Score:4, Insightful)
As one poster wrote above, certifications are nice, they prove you can take a test. I got laid off due to budget cuts a couple years back, and while on unemployment for six months, I got back to school in a Unix/Linux Systems associates program at a local business college, and should have my degree by this time next year. In the meantime, I fell back on a trade I had worked in for several years before landing my tech support position, medical transcription, so I could stay at home, work part-time, save up some cash, and concentrate on my studies.
I think the other poster is right, though. Don't rely solely on certs. Solid work in a college-level program is really going to prove how serious you are. I got really lucky back in the late 90s when I hired on as a field service technician, and then while out training with the service department manager at a large trucking facility located near Detroit Metro Airport, I showed him how to handle TCP/IP properly on Win95 and Win98 boxes hosted on an NT network. However, I'm going to call it a fluke, since trying to get a job with my notable lack of certs (I hold no Microsoft certs and will not pursue them, though I do have my LPI-1 & 2) or a college degree is holding me up.
Note, too, I'm in my mid-40s. It's never too late to stop where you are, reassess where you are at, and take measures to fix things.
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"Unix System Administrator" (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a textbook career move. Why do you even need to ask us?
Re:"Unix System Administrator" (Score:5, Insightful)
It turns out that the answer for me was get demoralized by the tech support nightmare, get fired, bum around for a while, go back to college for something else. I'm much happier studying engineering than I ever was working with computers, even though much of the mindset still applies.
I wonder if the originator of this question doesn't need to ask himself "Is this what I want to do with my life?"
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However, given what it sounds like his goals are - get off the front line and into a job with a little more dignity and mental stimulation - syseng is a pretty easy choice. It certainly doesn't require a degree to get started, so you can try it for a while and see if you li
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Finding a job is a really painful process, but don't forget that it is a pain in the ass for the person looking to get the job filled
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You are replying to someone who filters our resumes using a criteria which likely yields better candidates for the position. If you are going to counter with another method don't pick one that could as easily cut your best candidates as your worst.
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It's like turning up to your interview well dressed and clean (shock horror) will give a better impression than that grease spattered slob top you're wearing right now. Yes, I'm talking to you, lard boy!
The BIG KEY to getting a job at interview stage is this:
Let the interviewer know that they'll look good if they employ you. How you appear to the inte
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I'd argue that are dozens or even hundreds of details that are overlooked by even the most anal worker in a complex project. Attention to detail is critical in most positions but the most important aspect is prioritizing your time to address the most important details.
As a hirer you are looking at dozens of candidates. You forget that those candidates are looking at dozens of positions and probably cus
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Common sense applies in all cases. Regardless of your criteria you wouldn't cut the guys with substantial experience, a masters, or all the relevant certs. But after grabbing those cherries you should apply a filter that is at least related to the job. Nothing pisses me off more than
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When you are doing your job, do you do your best?
When you hire people to do a job, do you expect them to try their best?
When you look for work, do you try your best?
If the answer to these three questions is "no", then you are likely to find your CV / resume in the discard pile. Feel free to spell "administrator" incorrectly. Feel free to intersperse work experience and hobbies randomly throughout. Pay no attention to following convention with your cover letter.
Your resume should
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Spelling, grammar, and language abilities DO NOT correspond to intelligence, education, or anything beyond spelling, grammar, and language abilities.
If you are hiring someone to work as a writer, editor, or speller then judge their spelling abilities. If you are hiring someone to do anything else then you need to drop your false assumption that will follow the academic heard and avoid words like i
Outside Jobs (Score:3, Informative)
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Find a place with normal options ... (Score:1)
College (Score:5, Informative)
Time spent at school affords you the people network and insight to answer this question yourself. Plus, you will have a college degree. Choose wisely and you will need a big wooden club to keep the headhunters away. Everything starts with college, and it is never too late. Assuming you are a citizen of the United States, you get more money after you turn 24 because your parents' income cannot be considered.
Re:College (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been, and still am working in an "operations" job for the past 15 years or so and have gotten really tired of it. I believe the decision I made to go to school, obtain a degree and change my focus is one of the best moves I've ever made. Now, all I need to do is decide what my end focus will be...
Although I do have one benefit that you might not have. The company I now work for has tuition assistance, which will mitigate the cost somewhat.
Best of luck whatever you choose.
H.
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I'd say do some open source coding in your spare time, write some cool things that you can show off, but at least learn how to code.
I mean.. what is an IT career if it doesn't involve
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1) Well, there is IT project management. A project manager doesn't necessarily have to code, and, if they run the project well, they shouldn't be coding.
2) There is IT Architect. The Architect draws pretty visio diagrams of hardware or, if you are into Services Oriented Architecture, they draw what amounts to process flow charts. No coding involved there.
3) There is true IT business consulting. While
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ObOfficeSpace quote: "So what is it you say you do here?"
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It's the same thing as an ME career that doesn't involve arc welding.
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I could start a list, but I'll leave it at - I work for an IT organisation, and whilst i've got some good perl-fu, most of them do not. You don't need to 'code' to do most systems admin style troubleshooting, and most of the 'management apps' abstract any need to be able to code.
That's not to say I haven't found 'programming skills' useful, I have, but they're a part of a repetoire and aren't actually all t
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I'm a Systems Analyst... I don't code, I analyse the problems and write the requirements specs that the coders write the code for. The only code I do "write" is pseudocode to accompany state diagrams when describing the object that is to be coded.
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I dropped out of college after a year and a half to take a temp job doing network support. That start eventually took me through a number of software quality assurance and IT jobs to the point that I ended up as the Director of IT for a mid-size company. I'm now back in QA, serving as a lead for a team of four testers that specialize in network deployments.
Mind you, I'm not making six figures, so I may be a failure depending on one's measure of success, but I make a very comfortable living consid
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Once you have the opportunity to speak with an employer and can recommend improvements before even setting foot inside the company, their concerns about a degree slide away.
For the original poster, I'd concentrate on the developers who make the stuff he is supporting. Start talking to his immediate employer (the outsour
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Avoid the Army and Marines for obvious reasons. They actually do military stuff including physical labor. Screw that.
Active duty blows in terms of getting a degree (unless you have a career field with stable hours) but the Air Guard and Reserve weenies a
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I have no degree (although I spent 4 years in a CS program), and I was able to get a great job once I got my foot in the door on the strength of the skills I could demonstrate and my personality alone. Getting your foot in the door is the hard part, if you don't have a degree, and that's where networking takes over.
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College/University-level education is truly a pain in the royal ass. As I indicated elsewhere, I have a graduate degree, at that level, you take courses where the professor's are incredibly full of themselves. These professors have the tendency
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True, but I would like to point out that if someone doesn't have a degree, especially if that person is younger than 30 years old, people are more likely to think that person simply does not have enough experience to be put in a position of authority (and those type of persons usually end up in first line IT help desk).
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a
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I know _first hand_ that some of my compatriots who _didn't_ finish their degree have done a lot worse. One or two are gradually 'muscling in' on IT, but are doing so the hard way. I've been doing the kind of thing they're aiming at for 5 years.
Some of that was gett
Check out the market (Score:3, Interesting)
During the autumn, I was looking for a job, attended a few interviews and got the chance to take some psychometric tests. Even though I'm a bit sceptical to those tests, it was an experience and I think I got a clearer view of where I want to go and what I want to do jobwise.
Evidence (Score:2)
Are you actually able to back up those claims with evidence?
Do you have any education in those fields or can you show some direct results of your experience?
In all honesty; "1st line tech support" only proves you can speak over a telephone. 1st line tech support isn't considered a "real" IT job so you can't rely on it to get further into IT.
I know this sounds harsh, but sugarcoating it won't help you further. Get some sort of "portfolio
Don't underestimate the value of your experience (Score:4, Insightful)
I would employ you based on what you've written here. Well, bring you in for interview, anyway.
I've recruited Web, Unix, network, and firewall admin roles. My best successes have all come from those first and second line support teams. They work hard, they are aware of the elements of customer service, they appreciate little things like being able to decide when your own lunch-time is going to be.
I also like the motivation you've shown in organising college-courses, and that you're clearly got an interest in learning about the technology.
A degree on top of that wouldn't sway me *that* much. I'd be impressed by anyone motiviated enough to do a degree in their own time. It's the motivation that impresses me, not the techie stuff you've may or may not have learned. There will always be learning curve when you come into a new job however good/experienced you are, and I expect to have to train people.
So don't underestimate what you've got under your belt already, and start looking for 3rd-line techie jobs with your clients and other big corporates.
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If you want to leverage your support background into something else, I would start looking closely at your current client companies, and see if you can find a way to move into their in-house 3rd-tier support organization. Once you're there, depending on the company and what they do, you'll h
Will you actually enjoy being an admin? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bootstrap yourself (Score:4, Informative)
1) Motivate yourself. Get a Unix/Linux Sysadmin book and read it
from cover to cover. Stick Linux on your PC at home and
break it/fix it/mess with it.
2) Do more at your workplace (if you can). Start helping out in
the areas that interest you. You might be surprised, people
notice these things.
3) Sell yourself. This is very important. I don't mean telling
everyone you meet how great you are, but dropping hints when
chatting to sysadmins/programmers about what you can do.
People like me usually remember people like you, and have
a little influence in recommending people to the boss.
Best of luck.
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I know it's very tempting to try to learn new things all the time, but if you are angling to get noticed and promoted, asking basic questions is not the way.
Considered another field? (Score:2)
Maybe you should try... (Score:1)
Sysadmin prereqs (Score:4, Informative)
However, it's pretty much always a support service. Therefore you should expect that you'll end up on call. Personally I don't like that part, but can't deny the extra pay is nice.
It's also a field where experience is what really really matters. Which means it can be tough to break into. Certifications and degrees are nice, but it's my '5 years in the industry' which opens doors, not the other bits of paper.
However as a starting point in 'building your career', I will suggest you look at:
As far as I can tell, your bits of paper serve to help you secure an interview. But the field's .... well sufficiently complicated and convoluted that your ability to learn, research and innovate are far more important. As is your ability to show you can do this.
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The Practice of System and Network Administration - Excellent recommendation for anyone who wants to move into a sysadmin role.
Soft skills - The importance of this cannot be emphasized enough. The better people skills you develop, the more effective you will be at getting a job and more importantly, doing a job well and efficiently.
This came up in a discussion with my son the other day, and upon reflection, I realized that a large part of the development work that I have done was as much about the sof
Depends on Where You Are (Score:2)
If you're in a typical backwaterish US outsourcing outpost (Boise, Phoenix, Vegas, e.g.), then getting the first piece of college paper (even an Associate's) makes a lot of sense.
If you're anywhere near Silicon Valley or the bigger SV wannabes (Seattle, Portland-Hillsboro, Austin, Denver-Broomfield, RT
Distance learning courses (Score:2)
Get a job in sales (Score:1)
Job offers in sales tend not to focus that much on college diplomas, but more in your ability to make your point and in your previous experience. There are plenty of alternatives you can explore a
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move to another 1st line tech support job (Score:1)
Have you explored State Government Agencies? (Score:1)
That all changed when I took a Helpdesk position at a state agency. I had to move, but I found that as a great springboard into other areas. Goverment shops often have a varied IT department to cover all
Use" testing" as an entry into development (Score:2)
If you want to do development, testing is a traditional entry path. The best career path is with companies who will admit they do Extreme programming, as testing is more respected there. And you already know a lot about informal testing if you've been doing support (;-))
If you want to do sysadmin, you've already collected some of the prerequisites, so start looking for postings that say "sysadmin" and do not say either "tier 1" or "operations".
--dave
Change companies, then jobs. (Score:2)
First, change companies. Take a tech support position at a small company at which other employees do the kind of technical work you're interested in.
Then, once you're at the new job, hang out with the folks doing the kind of work you want to do and identify and volunteer for small projects that can help them. If you're actually good at it then your job responsibilities will shift and they'll hire someone else to do tech support.
The "small company" part is important. Large companies hire
Find a growing company (Score:2)
If your current job is a dead end, find a job that's not going to be a dead end, even if it's doing the same thing at first. In my case it was a fast-growing co
Small Companies are the way to go (Score:2)
my experience (Score:3, Insightful)
After about two years, you can start looking for serious sysadmin positions. When you get into an interview, you will be able to look the person on the other side of the desk straight in the eye and say, "I have done x, y, and z. Here is how and why I did what I did. I may not be familiar with the tools in your organization, but let me tell you about my last job, and how I taught myself to do x, y and z. I have demonstrated initiative, a strong work ethic, and an ability to solve problems, even in areas where I have no experience. Hire me."
It helps if you have samples of your work. If they want someone who can write scripts, bring a few of your scripts, even if it's only hard copies, describe why and how your wrote the script, and walk through what it does. Show them the documents you wrote describing how you set up a kickstart environment, or the VPN, or automated backups.
When you get to the new job, keep learning more. Maybe pick up a certification if you can get reimbursed for it. Keep doing this for the rest of your career, learning and finding new opportunities to expand your skills. If you work hard and you're lucky, you will not only stay employed, but you'll also find that your jobs get better and better, especially when the markets recover (as they seem to be doing a bit now in some areas).
Good luck!
Find A Small Business (Score:3, Informative)
After a few years at a small business, you should amass a broad range of IT skills and probably have a better overall idea of how companies work than more experienced IT staff at larger companies. You may not get paid as much, but you will probably have better hours and better treatment. At least you will still be making money, as opposed to spending money on further education or certs. I'm not opposed to education/training/certs, but hands-on experience is the best way to gain skills.
In case you think I'm talking through my ass, I have worked in IT for Boeing, Verizon, and Publix (regional supermarket chain, 100K+ employees) in various IT and senior IT roles, including sysadmin. I now work for a small company with around 25 people. I manage all of our systems. To clarify, if it plugs into an electrical outlet, I'm responsible. The money and hours are significantly better than my corporate gigs, but my situation is somewhat unique.
By the way, the smaller and younger the company, the better for you (if the company seems viable). This will give you the opportunity to grow with the company. If necessary, make some financial concessions up front, especially if you can work out some type of future profit-sharing or equity stake (I wish I would have done that instead of going for the big salary).
My advice (Score:2)
If you don't know what I mean google 'scary devil monastary' and read the faq.
Good luck! (Score:2)
Work on some OSS software, or otherwise get your name out there. Good managers believe in running code.
How I did it (Score:2)
From there I managed to get a job on the out of hours helpdesk of a large outsourcing company with the hopes of using this to working properly in the IT industry.
At this point I think I was fairly lucky in that first of all workin
I'm hiring in IT, here's what I'm looking for (Score:2)
The things people like me look for in an applicant are:
College is extremely important. Without it, an applicant appears to be unorgani
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Follow an already-trodden path (Score:2)
Just do it [folklore.org] and grow a moustache [folklore.org].
Do some real tech support for a change (Score:2)
Get the degree (Score:2)
Rob Malda had no degree (Score:2)
You have a lot of options (Score:2)
Second, try some consulting or temp work. Places like TEK-Systems will let you get some hands-on experience with administration, but won't tie you to a specific job/company for an extended p
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