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Hardware Hacking Operating Systems Software Technology

New Motherboards Disallowing IDE Booting? 183

Posted by Cliff from the brain-dead-moves dept.
wattsup asks: "It seems that bootable IDE ports are disappearing on newer motherboards. I recently purchased an MSI G965M-FI motherboard for a system upgrade. Overall the board is pretty good with lots of features, but it had one unexpected 'feature' that I didn't know about when I bought it. The PATA100 IDE port won't allow you to install an operating system from an attached CD-ROM. Does anybody know if this is an issue that can be fixed by upgrading the BIOS, or is this hard-wired into the IDE controller?"
"While its on their website, MSI doesn't tell you this on the retail packaging, until you break the seal on the static wrap and look at the motherboard. There, with a tiny label placed over the IDE connector, they inform you 'This IDE does not support OS installation in hard drive'.

This made my out-of-box experience rather maddening, as I had to get a USB based CD-ROM to install a fresh copy of XP. This seems like a pretty lame way to save money, disabling functionality on an IDE port that's included. Some research shows me that other manufacturers are doing the same thing. Why?"
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New Motherboards Disallowing IDE Booting? More

New Motherboards Disallowing IDE Booting?

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  • Ah, the JMicron IDE controller. (Score:5, Informative)

    by croddy ( 659025 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:16PM (#18755027)
    Yeah, I've yet to hear a 100% success story -- on Windows or Linux -- with those JMicron IDE controllers. They are absolute pieces of shit, and the drivers are even worse than the controllers.

    • Warning: JMicron inside. (Score:5, Informative)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:40PM (#18755559) Homepage Journal
      Yeah, I've yet to hear a 100% success story -- on Windows or Linux -- with those JMicron IDE controllers. They are absolute pieces of shit, and the drivers are even worse than the controllers.

      I recently tossed a pair of USB external HD enclosures, with JMicron chips on the bridge boards, in the trash. Under heavy load the USB device would just drop off the bus. Warning: JMicron inside.

      Me, throwing away hardware - that's pretty rare (ask my wife - the one time I throw away hardware it's because they hosed her photo album - she can't win). Also, lesson learned: don't run RAID on two of the same bridge chips - they're likely to fail at the same time.

    • It seems those running OS X on non-Apple hardware [osx86project.org] have also had similar issues. Life is simpler with boards based on the 945 or 975x and ICH7. (945 gives a lot of bang for the buck, the 975x generally allows the bus speed to be pushed much higher which is needed for overclocking with a locked CPU multiplier)
      The lack of PATA support in the ICH8 chip normally paired with the 965 is what leads to addition of the JMicrom IDE controllers for PATA.
      If a board can't talk to the PATA drives without added drivers,

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jimstapleton ( 999106 )
        If that were the case, how come so many random boards can boot from devices in PCI slots?

        I have an Adaptec SCSI card and an SATA card in one of my machines (the latter because the mobo had a POS Sil 2114 that causes massive dta corruption), and it can boot off of those just fine. They are effectively random hardware dropped into the box, and the machine boots from them (ABit NF7-S v2)

        I had another machine that could boot from both devices as well. I don't see why the fact that the controller is not built in
    • and if you install xp, activate it, and then install the drivers for the JMB, you'll have to phone into Microsoft to reactivate, as this triggers too many "hardware changes"

  • The new chipsets (Score:5, Informative)

    by LinuxGeek ( 6139 ) * <djand...nc@@@gmail...com> on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:17PM (#18755041)
    Motherboards based on the intel 965 chipset do not have ide (pata) ports unless the mb maker adds a discrete chip. It then becomes a matter of cost to add simple ide support or a full blown ide host akin to a full scsi type host that supports booting.

    As most boards are configured, the bios could boot off of an ide based DVD drive, but when the modern OS gets control, it will not see the ide ports since it isn't part of the chipset. Just like scsi needs drivers (or modules) loaded, the new ide will need these too. Ultimately, intel made the decision to use the pins needed for 2 separate ide ports for many more sata ports.

    • What about Game DRM? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Many games nowadays block all non-IDE CD-ROMs, as VirtualCDs tend to be all SCSI drives.
      Well SATA CDs are SCSI too (IIRC). What happens as games refuse to recognize your perfectly normal SATA DVD drive? And, of course, the game publishers response will be to go F' yourself

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by empaler ( 130732 )
        Using Gamecopyworld [gamecopyworld.com] mostly won't mess up your games. YMMV.
      • No, they arent.
        Next question.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by julesh ( 229690 )
      As most boards are configured, the bios could boot off of an ide based DVD drive, but when the modern OS gets control, it will not see the ide ports since it isn't part of the chipset.

      Huh? IDE's IDE. Doesn't matter whether it's part of the chipset or not, the OS will probe the standard range of ports for the controller (0x1F0 - 0x1F7, 0x170 - 0x177) and if it is there, it will find it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by LinuxGeek ( 6139 ) *

        Huh? IDE's IDE. Doesn't matter whether it's part of the chipset or not, the OS will probe the standard range of ports for the controller (0x1F0 - 0x1F7, 0x170 - 0x177) and if it is there, it will find it.

        No, not in all cases. The most common chip [jmicron.com] attaches to the usb bus. It is not configured by standard port I/O, thus the whole problem of not being able to boot PATA devices.

  • You're IDE is on your USB (Score:4, Informative)

    by BobPaul ( 710574 ) * on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:17PM (#18755049) Journal
    On the MSI site you linked, it states "On-Board IDE (USB to IDE)
      1 IDE port by JMicron JMB20335."

    You can locate that part on JMicron's website [jmicron.com]

    I haven't found a datasheet on it yet, but my assumption would be that chip doesn't allow booting. Essentially what you have is an MSI board without IDE support. Because that sucks, they integrated the JM20335, a USB to PATA bridge chip, much like what's likely used inside your USB CD-Rom drive. Unfortunately, it would seem this USB chip is non-bootable, like many USB Flash drives... Remember, I'm speculating on that outcome as I haven't found a datasheet.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Bootability is not a function of the chip used, but depends on bios support alone. You can boot off anything, as long as there is code in the bios or an option rom that presents the proper interface. It really doesn't matter behind what bridges a given chip is, or how broken it is. If it's on the mainboard, I'd expect the manufacturer to implemnt the proper workarounds if it's broken. There are enough boards out there that can boot off jMicron IDE ports. This is just lazy and/or cheap from MSI.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Qzukk ( 229616 )
      My Intel DG965SS provides an external Marvell chip (IDE interface: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. Unknown device 6101 (rev b1)) for PATA, and I can boot off of it just fine. It's all a matter of providing the code in the BIOS to make it use the hardware thats available (remember the days before we had all-in-one north/southbridge chipsets?) and MSI just didn't do it. Maybe they saved a few cents on flash for the BIOS to make it fit...

      But wait, what's worse is that that is a USB-to-IDE interface, which mean

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Realistic_Dragon ( 655151 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:18PM (#18755053) Homepage
    To save a nickel a unit of course.

    (Which is understandable given that they need to maximise profit and removing features that are almost unused in their target market is a good way to do it. Real engineers don't overspec!)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by HTH NE1 ( 675604 )

      To save a nickel a unit of course.
      Or maybe it's a security feature designed so that, when deployed in a work environment, employees can't boot Linux distros off of CDs?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tepples ( 727027 )

        Or maybe it's a security feature designed so that, when deployed in a work environment, employees can't boot Linux distros off of CDs?

        Then it should be an option in the BIOS's configuration screen, or at least a jumper that can be turned on or off. There should be a way for IT personnel in a work environment to initially install Linux distros for the use of employees, and there should be a way for employees in a work environment whose business is reviewing Linux distros to start these Linux distros.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 )
        Erh... makes no sense, does it?

        If it can't boot off an IDE CD, so can't the tech who should fix it.
        If they put a SATA CD in, so the tech can, so can you.
        What CDs should the average non-tech worker insert into a company computer anyway?

        It simply makes no sense.

  • Intel removing 'legacy' interfaces (Score:3, Informative)

    by RobinShuff ( 194579 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:22PM (#18755125) Homepage
    Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ? This is a support/hardware forum posting.

    The answer is simply that the P965 chipset has no native PATA controllers in it and so motherboard manufactures provide support for these legacy interfaces (decided as legacy by Intel) through a 3rd party controller chip which is not controlled by the BIOS and requires device drivers to be used. Motherboard manufactures have realised the continued need for PATA ports which is why they are kind enough to provide the extra chip. So no BIOS update will fix this and yes it is a trend, pushed by Intel (and potentially other chipset manufacturers), which will continue. It could be considered that Intel's decision to drop PATA was a little premature due to the relative lack of SATA DVD drives, but DVD drive manufactures have said that the majority sold with finally be SATA by the second half of 07.

    • Re:Intel removing 'legacy' interfaces (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @05:27PM (#18756863)
      Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ? This is a support/hardware forum posting.

      Yes. It's definitely news for nerds. I'm a pretty big nerd, and I wouldn't have known about this had it not shown up on /. Now I know to research IDE bootability before I buy my next mobo, whereas before, I would have taken it for granted since it's something I've been able to do for well over a decade.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by will_die ( 586523 )
        The easiest way of finding theses boards is to advoid boards that say they are not compatable with windows 98/ME and then to read the technical specs.
        If you goto the technical specs for this board they say
        Special note: The JMicron IDE port does not support OS installation on IDE hard drive. A system/primary drive connected to the IDE port will not be bootable.

    • Re:Intel removing 'legacy' interfaces (Score:5, Insightful)

      by statemachine ( 840641 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @05:44PM (#18757327)
      Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ?

      I believe it should. Reading all the comments so far, I've found out there's a feature-lacking controller chipset that at least one motherboard manufacturer uses without labelling this boot "feature" in a clear way on the packaging (without having to break the seals). I do buy motherboards on occasion, and I sure would have been frustrated to find this out on my own. If this is a new trend, then I prefer to hear about these kinds of issues beforehand.

      Many times, what one thinks is a trend or a common way of thinking is news to everybody else. I had one slashdotter reply to me not long ago saying that IPMI was a standard now. Funny how that is, since I deal with Sun, HP, and IBM servers, and none of them use Intel's IPMI spec, at least as far as remote management is concerned. I don't think he meant to troll, I just think he got caught up in his own corner -- as probably happens to me in other areas too.

      To me, this type of discussion is valuable. Many (most? almost all?) people still use PATA devices, and PATA devices are still being sold right alongside the SATA devices (and still possibly in greater quantities for PATA). There are a lot of people affected by this "trend" and possibly directly affected by this chipset.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      Firstly, should this really be posted on /. ? This is a support/hardware forum posting.

      Yes. Given how DRM continues to become more and more invasive in everything we try to do on our PCs, and the legality of shrink wrap and click through contracts not concrete yet, I find hardware makers quietly and arbitrarily removing features people expect on products a very big deal indeed.

      Can you not see a TCPM tinted future where your very storage devices refuse to accept data for writing that contain copyright flags?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Skapare ( 16644 )

      I boot from a Compact Flash card that is plugged into the IDE port via a small simple adapter. It's simple because the CF interface *is* an IDE interface, plug extra lines for power. So if the IDE port is not longer a bootable interface, how to boot from CF in the future? Will there be a SATA to CF interface?

      BTW, booting from CF is nice. It's fast, and you don't have to worry that the OS won't come up due to some hard drive failure. It also provides a nice place to stick in some read-only filesystem s

    • ***Motherboard manufactures have realised the continued need for PATA ports which is why they are kind enough to provide the extra chip. So no BIOS update will fix this and yes it is a trend, pushed by Intel (and potentially other chipset manufacturers), which will continue.***

      I'm getting a bit elderly here and maybe my memory isn't as good as it might be. But isn't hiding implementation details like whether an IDE interface is on an auxiliary chip pretty much why we have BIOSes in the first place? Seem

  • Use a dongle? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ant P. ( 974313 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:27PM (#18755215)
    I know it's still stupid having to do it in the first place, but couldn't you just use an internal drive with a PATA-to-SATA connector?
  • Looking at the link provided in the 'Onboard IDE' section

    MSI Reminds You... This IDE does not support OS installaion in hard drive.A system hard drive connected to this IDE slot can not be booted upto OS.

    which is the same thing the posted indicated was on the sticker.
    MSI didn't just update because of a /. posting, did it? :)
    • TFS even says this. I'm with the topic starter about being pissed though, because the outside of the box should say so as well, so that when you are browsing around you will know this up front.
      This would kill my use for the board as a server for example, as I like to boot my servers from a small (otherwise unused) HDD or CF card, using the big drives for storage instead. I refuse to have storage on my system root drive, and why waste the space of a large capacity drive?

      -nB

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
        "This would kill my use for the board as a server for example, as I like to boot my servers from a small (otherwise unused) HDD or CF card'
        If you really want to do this then I would suggest a USB flash drive instead of the CF or a SATA to IDE adapter.
        Yes it would be great if this board would boot from the IDE but it looks like that is currently impossible.

        • You tried booting windows from USB flash?
          BartPE is good but it's no server. Damn PITA.
          -nB

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
            Why would I run a server with Windows?
            Windows costs money and linux and bsd work just fine from USB and is free as in beer and speech.
    • You can find other warning, differently worded, in other places so I am guessing they were not just added.
      Going to the tech page on the board gives a Special note: The JMicron IDE port does not support OS installation on IDE hard drive. A system/primary drive connected to the IDE port will not be bootable.

  • You know what else doesn't work? The B drive! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I wanted to add a 5.25" floppy B drive to my new Intel Core 2 Duo system, and the bios doesn't even recognize it! What will I do now if I need to read something from a 5.25" floppy?

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by 6Yankee ( 597075 )
      You've got back-ups on audio cassette, right? Try those.

      Just, not in the floppy drive.
    • Does it work as an A drive?

      hehe was actually planning on setting one up this way.

      But, yes, the B-drive went away some time ago. No idea why they stopped supporting 2, they still have a connector/controller for one so they can't be saving anything.

      The ones that only recognize one drive will recognize the old floppy-based tape drives given the 'right' drivers and programs (that they took out of windows XP) Hehe, impressed myself by getting the old tape to work under winXP then I (me myself and I, not MS) deci

  • Backwards compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GWBasic ( 900357 ) <`slashdot' `at' `andrewrondeau.com'> on Monday April 16, 2007 @04:31PM (#18755337) Homepage

    Why not pick up a SATA CD/DVD drive? You can probably get an unboxed OEM for about $30. You might also be able to get a SATA -> IDE adaptor, but I don't have any experience with them.

    It's very difficult to be backwards compatible with everything. Ignoring cost, it adds complexity and difficulty to the development process; and could potentially reduce reliability. As another poster in the thread added, Intel decided to go for more SATA ports in the chipset.

    Let's face it, it's 2007, and IDE is quickly on its way out. Why should we hamper a chipset with functionality needed so that you can save $30?

    I do empasize with you. This weekend I picked up a Mac Pro, and much to my surprise, I can't run dual monitors unless both are digital. (I can't bear to part with my 17" CRT.) I tried transfering my PCI video card from my old desktop, but it seems that the Mac Pro doesn't use PCI.

    Now if I could only get Windows Vista to run on my P100!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jandrese ( 485 )
      Man, I can't have been the only person who had issues with SATA optical drives right? I mean I guess they must be getting better by now, but this seems like a rather sudden transition that has caught the optical drive manufacturers a little off guard.

      It didn't help that most of the commonly used SATA chipsets were horribly buggy when SATA first started to get popular. That had to discourage ATAPI device manufacturers (who have a tendency to bring out bugs in whatever they're attached to) from adopting t

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by smbarbour ( 893880 )
      I like to upgrade my machines a little at a time. As of this time, I could not upgrade to just the new motherboard. I couldn't even get away with upgrading the CD/DVD drives. I'm still using PATA for everything since I don't have a SATA compatible computer.

      Looks like I have exceeded my upgrade window...

      IDE Zip 100 - Virtually useless (of course the same holds true now)
      3.5" Floppy - Virtually useless (no one uses floppies anymore)
      200 GB IDE HD - Useless (SATA needed now)
      ATAPI DVD Burner - Useless (SATA ne
      • IDE Zip 100 - Virtually useless (of course the same holds true now) 3.5" Floppy - Not virtually useless (schools/libraries/workplaces where the USB ports are disabled and the BIOS has a password) 200 GB IDE HD - Not useless (external USB enclosure lets you use it as an external mass-storage solution) ATAPI DVD Burner - Not useless (external USB enclosure lets you use it as an external optical drive) ATAPI CDRW Burner - Not useless (external USB enclosure lets you use it as an external optical drive) 512 MB

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by julesh ( 229690 )
      Why not pick up a SATA CD/DVD drive? You can probably get an unboxed OEM for about $30.

      Because as of right now, they're hard to get hold of. My usual supplier, a well-known UK mail order supplier, has a grand total of 6 SATA models, 4 of which are out of stock, compared to a total of 76 models in PATA. The cheapest in-stock PATA model costs about 1/2 the price of the cheapest SATA one. If you're looking for DVD+-RW, the saving is only about 25% for going SATA, but it is still cheaper.

      The question is, why
    • The problem being that Windows XP doesn't install on SATA hardware without help so many people who still use XP also like IDE hardware because it just works especially Intel's IDE hardware. So until Vista and SATA CD-ROM drives become more common this seems like a premature move.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Skapare ( 16644 )

      If IDE is on the way out, what will the next generation of Compact Flash cards use for their interface so they are bootable? Currently, they do IDE. If they would do SATA, that could be very cool because there would be a lot fewer pins to break.

    • It's very difficult to be backwards compatible with everything. Ignoring cost, it adds complexity and difficulty to the development process; and could potentially reduce reliability.

      I don't expect them to be backwards compatible with everything. I do expect them to be backwards compatible with a standard that the majority of people are still using. We aren't talking about support for 5.25" floppy drives here, and we certainly aren't talking about trying to run Vista on a P100.

  • Use a floppy (Score:2, Informative)

    by Jaffa ( 7714 )
    I've had something similar on an IBM xSeries (quite an old bit of kit) which was designed for SCSI drives. A small copy of lilo or grub on a boot floppy set to chainboot hd(0,0)/hda5 sorted it out, though.
  • are they still have at least 1 ide port as part of the chip set.
    • they still have at least 1 ide port as part of the chip set.
      On the other hand, I believe Intel has done a better job than nvidia of releasing hardware documentation for their video chips, so if you're getting a mobo whose onboard video you're planning to use, that might be a reason to prefer Intel. (I don't think Intel sells separate, retail-packaged video cards.)
      • but on board video still is way behind real video cards and there is a big lack of on boards chips with there own ram.

  • Why won't my MFD drive work!? (Score:3, Funny)

    by RingDev ( 879105 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @05:06PM (#18756283) Homepage Journal
    I mean, I've had this 20 meg MFD drive for like 15 years now, why can't modern computers keep up with something so simple!?

    Honestly here, IDE(PATA) is a dieing format. It has a competitor that is just as cheap and even better performing. A new 250GB SATA hard drive and SATA CD/DVD burner can be yours for just over $100.

    -Rick

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by BRTB ( 30272 )
      MFM? Why not RLL it, you might be able to get 30MB out of that thing...

    • I mean, I've had this 20 meg MFD drive for like 15 years now, why can't modern computers keep up with something so simple!?

      The last time I tried that, the 2.2 kernel saw and used the drive. I'm glad it did, because that made the final backup a single 20 mb file instead of a bunch of floppies.

      I don't mind hardware makers abandoning hardware, so long as they are not secretive about the new hardware. Unfortunately, SATA makers have been not shared and there are many problems with SATA for GNU/Linux. Thi

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dedazo ( 737510 )
        Hi twitter [slashdot.org]. When you're done with the "M$ is teh evilz" routine, I was wondering if you were planning on posting a reply to this [slashdot.org]? Much appreciated and all that.

        Thanks!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by julesh ( 229690 )
      Honestly here, IDE(PATA) is a dieing format.

      From my usual supplier:

      PATA DVD-RW drive: £17
      SATA DVD-RW drive: £23

      Advantage of using SATA for connecting an optical drive: zero.

      Whilever there's a price difference like this, you'll find a lot of people don't think PATA is dead. I just bought a new shop-built PC that came with PATA hard disks and DVD drive. OK, it was a low end model, but while new machines are being supplied with an old technology, that technology isn't dead.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by RingDev ( 879105 )
        "Advantage of using SATA for connecting an optical drive: zero."

        Except that new motherboards coming out do not support bootable PATA. That's a pretty big advantage if you ask me.

        "...but while new machines are being supplied with an old technology, that technology isn't dead."

        And as long as English is commonly spoken, it is not dead either. That's why I said it is a "Dieing" standard, as in it is depricated, being fazed out, being given the boot, it's been sacked, it's a has been... It's not dead, but there

    • Honestly here, IDE(PATA) is a dieing format.

      Dying != DEAD. You don't remove backwards compatibility until 99% of the old hardware is gone.

      You see those serial, PS2, and parallel ports on your motherboard? They're dying too, but I'd be mad if they were removed in the next few years.

      It has a competitor that is just as cheap and even better performing.

      SATA isn't as cheap as IDE. The different, last I looked, was 10-$15. On drives that are expensive to begin with, they might just hide that ~5% price differe

  • Been looking forward to boards that don't have obsolete parallel connectors all over. Manufacturers; you can stop putting these connectors on new designs altogether. Don't even bother with some deprecated non-bootable vestige connectors. Just drop them. You could probably have stopped two years ago, although SATA DVD/CD-ROM drives did take a while to become widely available.

    As for those who choose to insist on nursing obsolete drives; older designs will continue to remain available for what should be su

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Been looking forward to boards that don't have obsolete parallel connectors all over.

      You then go on to suggest a parallel PCI card. Doesn't that also qualify as an obsolete parallel connector? :-)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by julesh ( 229690 )
      SATA DVD/CD-ROM drives did take a while to become widely available

      They still aren't. None of my local shops or usual mail order suppliers stock SATA DVD- or CD-ROM drives. Some of them have writers available, but not all, and the writers they do have are more expensive than the PATA equivalents.

  • A board with NO PATA? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by michrech ( 468134 ) on Monday April 16, 2007 @05:39PM (#18757215)
    I've looked around on newegg a bit and didn't find anything, but are there any ATX boards with a socket AM2 that have NO PATA ports? The only thing I have that uses them is a CD-ROM, which I can quite easily convert/replace with an SATA. I'd really like to find a board that lacks any PATA ports to simplify my cabling. :)
  • I think intel pulled a gutsy move (maybe a little premature) by hacking off the IDE parts of the mainboard.

    You can get around this with the F8 key on your keyboard and a floppy disk drive and the right drivers for the JMicron controller.

    Or, if you're using Vista, you can use a USB thumb drive for the drivers.
  • If it's like the MSI board I just spent a week fighting with, it actually WILL boot off the CD-ROM. However, what is labeled "CDROM" in the BIOS is NOT the IDE cdrom. It's a SATA CDROM. To select the IDE CDROM, you have to go further down the list and select the actual IDE cdrom drive by name (e.g. mine was a "Memorex DVD-RAM" or something like that.)

    This may not work with your board, but might be worth a try.

  • Get a cheap small USB key and boot from that into grub. Using grub you can then daisy-chain boot into your IDE drive.

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