Is the Dell XPS One Better than the Apple iMac? 627
An anonymous reader writes "The Apple iMac is probably the standard all-in-one desktop computer. Great operating system, built-in software and design around solid, but pretty normal, hardware guts. According to Walter Mossberg, there's a new kid in town that not only matches it but is 'sightly ahead': the Dell XPS One. His latest review is already causing the usual suspects to weigh in. Mossberg says it is a better machine, but Vista and its built-in software make it inferior than Apple iMac's Leopard and iLife suite. Would you choose the better hardware of the Dell XPS One -which is more expensive- or the elegant design and software of the Apple iMac?"
My Choice (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I'm still choosing neither. Why? Because I can't afford them and I don't spend enough time using a desktop machine to justify it if I could. I put money into my laptops, because that's where I live and work. For my desktop, I want a big case that I can dig around and play in. And for the most part it's all cheap stuff. Would an imac be nice? Sure. Just like a Mercedes would be a lot nicer than my '95 Taurus. But the Taurus and my gateway case with a motherboard I got on special at Frys do the job - and that is enough.
When family our friends are looking for a new home pc - if they are looking for something in the price range of the imac - I encourage them to go that route without hesitation.
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(not joking: while the elite here drives BMWs and Mercedes like everywhere else, cars are so expensive here that a Camry is "upper middle-class only" and a VW Jetta is considered a "nice family car")
Re:My Choice (Score:5, Insightful)
In this case, Dell has proven they care what the customer says, but if it comes down to the OS, I'll go with Apple. They have been known to listen to the customer at least once in a while. Microsoft? Vista was all about telling customers what they wanted instead of listening to them and the rest of the world (which explains the YouTube videos of Gates showing off features and being asked if they weren't the same as what Mac had already and Gates not realizing it).
Personally, I hope MS ends up having as many problems as the American car makers did back in the 70's and 80's. Then they'll either end up as a has been or learn to listen to customers instead of telling customers what they should want.
Interesting comparison to cars. (Score:4, Insightful)
That also brings into point my first consideration. I remember back in the 70's or 80's when a lot of the American car companies were having trouble because of the new Japanese models. American companies kept putting out more and more of what they wanted the public to buy and the Japanese companies were finding out what sold and focusing on that. It was only when American companies began to realize what was going on that they started listening to customers instead of telling them what was good or desirable.
American car companies still haven't learned the lessons form the '70s and '80s. They still refuse to produce fuel efficient autos. Though there are more flex fuel [wikipedia.org] American autos where are the hybrid and all electric vehicles? GM withdrew the one all electric vehicle they had, the EV1 [wikipedia.org] while there was a waiting list of people wanting to buy, or lease as GM was only leasing them, one.
FalconRe:Interesting comparison to cars. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Flex fuel" is bullshit. All it means is that they use slightly better rubber hoses and have extra programming in the ECU. It doesn't actually help anything (at least not until ethanol from sources other than corn is widely available); it's just a way for US auto makers (in collusion with the corn lobby) to weasel out of real improvements!
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"Flex fuel" is bullshit. All it means is that they use slightly better rubber hoses and have extra programming in the ECU. It doesn't actually help anything (at least not until ethanol from sources other than corn is widely available); it's just a way for US auto makers (in collusion with the corn lobby) to weasel out of real improvements!
Yea, corn gets all the publicity while sugar cane is a better feed source than corn and Switchgrass is even better than sugar. Corn gets it because the corn lobby is b
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Re:My Choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and this goes double for our own machines. If I've just spent 8+ hours making sure some company's computers work, the last thing I want to do when i get home is tinker with my own.
Please don't group us with gamers.
Personally? (Score:5, Insightful)
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How long does a computer last you? I typically find myself looking for a new monitor when I want a new computer too (which is about every 4 years).
As for the iMac vs the Dell One, I'd go with the iMac. The iMac runs OS X and Windows XP out of the box, The De
Re:Personally? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Personally? (Score:4, Informative)
Likewise, I predict that extremely-high-resolution displays are just over the horizon. It's almost 2008 -- we should be able to make a display that can at least come *close* to the resolution of a laser printer. Take a look at the financial section of your newspaper, hold it up next to your computer screen, and you'll realize just how poor our current display technology is. In 4 years time, when it's time to replace your Dell or iMac, I imagine that you'll want a better monitor.
Either way, I'm sticking with Apple. The Dell doesn't have any compelling features over Apple, and the price frankly isn't that good either. Being able to run Mac OS *or* any version of Windows (simultaneously if you want) on the iMac is the dealbreaker, considering that just about every other aspect of the machine is the same.
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Stylish looks and a brand name keep burning me (Score:5, Funny)
With apple you're paying more for what they think is stylish looks and a brand name.
You nailed that one right on the head. I've been using Macs since the late 1980s.
At first I paid more because the Mac had that whole "GUI" thing, and I thought it was important. Of course, the "GUI" was just a bunch of hooey, until Microsoft brought Windows 3.1 to market. Then the "GUI" actually was worthwhile.
But I still stubbornly continued to use the Mac because I thought I could get a lot done with it, using flashy, stupid tools like HyperCard and AppleScript. I realize now that they were just hogwash, but for a long time I thought I was really productive with them. I ran a 1,200 page website with BBEdit and AppleScript, but I was just fooling myself. Deep inside, I was just transfixed by the smooth beige of the PowerMac series of desktops and towers.
Then the G3 and G4 machines came out, and I was transfixed by the colors and the spicy new advertising. Again I was confused. They *seemed* like reliable computers. When OS X came out, it seemed like a more powerful and stable OS, but in retrospect, I was just taken in by the fact that the hardware and the software *seemed* to work so well together. But of course, that was just an illusion.
Now that I use a Mac laptop and Leopard, it's the same thing, only worse. All of the Mac-only apps really suck, and I'm only keeping my Mac because of those bitchin' "'I'm a PC.' 'And I'm a Mac!'" ads. Goddammit! I just wish Apple would stop messing with my teenie little brain! Give me strength so I can escape the grip of their stylish good looks and that overwhelmingly powerful brand name! Please! Help me!
Re:Stylish looks and a brand name keep burning me (Score:4, Interesting)
For most people computers are just appliances. My wife introduced me to Macs. She bought one solely because she loved her iPod, and when she went to Circuit City, she looked at both PCs and a Mac, and because of her experience with her iPod she bought an iBook (this was many years ago). She's a smart cookie, but doesn't have an interest in technical stuff, so she said to her self: if the iPod works well the Mac must too; and for her it has; she now has a MacBook.
When we started dating, I started learning OS X on her machine. I was kind of amazed of what she was doing with her computer. Sure you CAN do everything she was doing on Windows, but no-one in my family had ever figured out how to do it. She was doing it on her Mac without really thinking of it. That got me intrigued.
For me, I'm a developer, a *nix developer to be precise. I had never been interested in Macs pre OS X, as the OS was kind of lame. But I felt right at home in the Terminal in OS X; I did have to learn the BSD way of doing things, but that was very easy.
I bought the cheapest Mac Mini to play with; ripped it apart, upgraded it, installed and reinstalled everything, etc. I then started to KVM between my Linux workstation and my Mac Mini. The mini was slow, but I started using it more and more. My next computer was a MacBook Pro; at that point I had my Mac laptop and my desktop Linux workstation.
When my Linux workstation was getting long in the tooth, I debated between a new shiny 4 core PC, or a 4 core Mac Pro. I had just built a very nice 4 core Linux workstation for a co-worker, and that worked really well for him. In the end I decided on a Mac Pro, and I've been very happy; I now have no PCs for workstations, only servers. OS X makes an excellent Unix workstation, and a great development environment. I'd be happy with a Linux workstation too, but I really like that the things I don't want to mess with (music, creating movies, etc) "just work" on the Mac, and things I really care about (development, the command-line, unix environment) work really well on OS X. Plus little things like OS X is 64 bit, and I can put 16gigs of memory in my Mac Pro; you really don't have to think about it (yes I know the 64bit versions of Windows and Linux can too, but most people aren't using those)
So I think my wife and I show two ends of the Mac spectrum; it's not as easy as saying "Mac users are non-technical sheep" because there are many people like me who need high powered unix workstations. And there are many people like my wife, who just want to do what they need to do and get back to what really interests them.
Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
First off, let's compare tech specs.
iMac (Low-end) $1199
20" wsxga+ screen
1GB Ram
250GB HDD
Dual Layer DVD burner
ATI Radeon HD 2400XT (128MB)
802.11n Wireless
XPS ONE (Low-End) $1399
20" wsxga+ screen
2GB Ram
250GB HDD
DVD burner Integrated Video
"WiFi" (doesn't say which)
Now notice that the only thing the dell beats the mac in is memory. However, for $150 you can upgrade to the same amount when you order an iMac (or get a stick on newegg for half that), and have a machine that still is $50 LESS (and with a real video card, a dual layer burner, and guaranteed 802.11n). Gizmodo also already agreed that Leopard was the better operating system (see the link in the article below the video). So this begs me to ask, why do they consider the more expensive, less equipped, and weaker operating system computer better than the other?
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
*head asplode*
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By "nicer" you mean less powerful but in a prettier case? I wonder if the reviewers took into account hardware reliability, as Apple was the top rated vendor on consumer reports last survey, while Dell desktops came in about middle of the road, at best.
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Surface appearances aside, it's time to talk about the quality of the internal hardware...Apple hardware vs Dell hardware.
Tossing all OS considerations, I think that Apple's hardware is traditionally much more robust and reliable than Dell's has been. I'm working in a shop that always buys Dell PCs and Apple iMacs. We have more problems with
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Maybe in the past, but I'm not so sure of the present. We have mid range Dell's at work (can't recall exactly what they are). We're a small hospital and there are about 75 PCs of various ages, all running XP. They just work. There is the occasional hard drive failure, the occasional monitor going south, but that's about it.
I recently bought a Mac Book Pro hoping to get off the Microsoft treadmill and yet
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Tossing all OS considerations, I think that Apple's hardware is traditionally much more robust and reliable than Dell's has been. I'm working in a shop that always buys Dell PCs and Apple iMacs. We have more problems with the Dells, hands down, than we do with the Apples.
Everyone has an anecdote to throw into this pool about how in their shop and the lot of systems they bought some brand is more reliable than some other brand. Anyone looking for objective data, however, should look at an independent study. I recommend Consumer Reports. Their methodology is not perfect, but it is better than anything else I've seen. They don't take ad money and they don't accept donated hardware from companies (who have been know to cherry pick models to send for review). They buy everythi
are Macs or PC cheaper? (Score:5, Insightful)
On a side note, I can't believe I just made an argument that a Mac was cheaper from a hardware standpoint.
*head asplode*
Depending on what the configuration is some Macs are cheaper than equivalent Windows PC. this has been true for a few years. The key though is that you have to start with a Mac then configure a Windows PC to the same specs as Apple doesn't offer nearly as many configurations as PC OEMs.
FalconAnother caveat (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Funny)
all-in-ones or laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I know Apple makes laptops too. I have no problem with them if you're a Mac person. I just don't "get" the whole category of computers that the iMac and XPS One fit into. What is it, the bigger screen vs. a laptop? Hell, you could buy a laptop *and* a 24" LCD screen for less than an XPS One, and then you'd have a really nice computer with the same huge screen *and* it'd be fully portable!
I agree compeatly. A laptop is a terrific all-in-one and if you want a larger monitor get one.
Falcon
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Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
The Dell comes with a TV tuner. People who like Dells also like American Idol and Fox news.
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For those with mod points, mod Fear the Clam's comment up. It's a vital point I overlooked.
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Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Informative)
It is, indirectly. Actually, my post was modded 30% Funny, 30% Troll and 30% Informative.
(This post is Informative.)
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Now if I were to say
"The Mac doesn't come with a TV tuner. That's because people who like iMacs are too busy taking it up the ass to bother watching TV."
While equally as informative and slightly more inflammatory (I almost rather be accused of being gay then be accussed of frequently watching Fox news, however), this post will be modded either tro
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
Do some homework (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Do some homework (Score:5, Informative)
Also, "Fear The Clam" already noted my forgetting the TV tuner ( http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=400096&cid=21833078 [slashdot.org] ), and I noted this. Read others comments before you flame.
And Integrated Video versus a dedicated graphic card? Please. I just bought a Lenovo X61 with one of intel's latest integrated chips, the Intel GMA X3100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_X3100) and I have trouble playing Counterstrike on it ( i get about 25 fps @ 640x480). Not Counterstrike Source mind you, the original CS from 1999. My old Radeon 9800 out performs it greatly ( 100 fps @ 1280x1024), and that has about one third [270Mhz clock vs 800 Mhz clock] the power of the 2400XT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units#Radeon_R600_series). Granted CS isn't a full benchmark (and it can't run on a mac) but it at least gives us a basic comparison between the performance of the cards.
However, yes, the dell does have 200Mhz more. I overlooked that.
iMac 2.0 has 2X cache than Dell 2.2 (Score:4, Insightful)
The Dells have either a E4500 or E6550
2.2 GHz clock / 2 MB cache / 800 MHz FSB
2.33 GHz / 4 MB / 1333 MHz
All ship with only 667 MHz DIMMs
Intel's mobile processor page [intel.com]
The iMacs have either a T7300, T7700, or X7900.
2.0 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.4 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.8 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
All ship with only 667MHz SO-DIMMS
BTW, if a 128MB 2400XT is a joke, then WTF do you call integrated video?
The highest specced XPS ONEs have Mobility Radeon HD 2400's [amd.com], memory is unlisted
while BASE iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2400 XT's [amd.com] with 128MB GDDR3
The highest end iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2600 PROs with 256MB GDDR3.
The iMac has better specs, flat out. It most likely uses a lot less power and weighs less also. The XPS ONE is a very well integrated _PC_ for sure, and has other nice features the iMac doesn't. I think Dell did a great job with the hardware integration and bundled features, and it is somewhat on par with the iMacs, IF you leave Leopard and iLife out of the picture anyway.
Personally, those speakers have got to go!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
Dell XPS One (Score:3, Funny)
I choose the Dell XPS One. (Score:3, Insightful)
If I'm going to have to throw the whole thing out once it becomes obsolete, I'm going to buy the one that's going to last the longest.
If I were to go strictly on how long it would last I'd have to pick the iMac. I bought 2 Macs that were about 3 years old when I bought them. The first one I got 1992, it lasted until 2000. The second I got in 2000 a few months after the first one died, it died in 2006. During the same tyme I bought 2 brand new Windows PCs. In the first year the hdd and the motherboar
Re:Dell XPS One (Score:5, Funny)
Neither! (Score:2)
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It uses a H-IPS panel, which provides great color accuracy, contrast, and brightness from almost any viewing angle. There are only a couple other 24" H-IPS displays on the market, and they cost $1250-$1500. Yes, just for the screen.
So, in effect, you're getting the rest of the iMac for $300-$550.
Buy a Mac. (Score:5, Insightful)
I just told my father to get a Mac.
He is tired of the security problems with his PCs. He has 3 PCs right now. One at his home here, one at his place in North Georgia, and a Laptop.
All he uses his computer for is Email, digital pictures, and paying bills on line.
I could set him up with Ubuntu but where would he find support for it when I am not around? I don't know how good Dell is at Ubuntu support and frankly he isn't the most technical person on the planet.
Apple has figured out what most people want to do with a PC at home and produce a nice bundle that just works.
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It's extremely easy to secure (and keep secure) a Windows box... While I agree that you shouldn't NEED to, it's still very easy to do...and the best part is, none of the software will cost you a penny.
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But...
No anti virus program will stop every virus. I honestly don't worry much about viruses since I don't click on
But again this is for my father. He is almost 70 and likes to travel, go hiking, and go on cruses. He just doesn't want to worry about his PC.
Even with your solution to one of his problems I would still have to find software to install to replace iLife
Re:Buy a Mac. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sure most people would rather buy a machine and have it be able to access the internet securely out of the box and take full advantage of all the performance they paid for.
Nowhere in the ads for the machine did it say:
* Knowledge of how to obtain, install and maintain third party security applications required.
** Due to background security software, actual system will be slower than advertised.
It's One Better! (Score:4, Funny)
Hardware? (Score:5, Insightful)
Choose the best tool for the job. If you'll be more productive with OS X, and you're only choosing between these two systems, then obviously choose the iMac.
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Software is useless unless you have something to run it on. Guess what my copies of windows are useless as I don't currently have hardware which can they can currently run. That means all of my windows only software is also useless.
Yet my hardware can run far more than windows. I can run OS X, Linux, BSD, BeOS, GNUHurd if i am feeling adventerous, and even windows with special adaptors.
Software doesn't do anything by itself, it only ties the pieces of hardware togethe
iLife? (Score:2)
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It probably includes Photoshop Elements and not full Photoshop.
My wife is really into digital scrapbooking. She has both Photoshop Elements and Gimp. She actually likes Gimp more than Elements.
From what I have seen iLife is a good tool for the average user.
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The article just states without proof that iLife is better than (admittedly pared down versions of) Adobe's tools, some of which are the most powerful around, because they're "complex." It's worth mentioning here that elements in particular has a freaking wizard for everything. If somebody wants to compare iLife and Adobe intro stuff side by side, I'd like to see it, but when it's on the short list of reasons why iMac is better, I need more than one sentence.
I'd
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It surely comes equipped with some crappy 'starter' software.
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I'll Take the iMac (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? Because the iMac comes with Leopard and the Dell comes with Vista. I have been recommending Macs to everyone now that they contain Intel chips. You can buy a Mac and if you hate OS X, you can just install Windows or Linux. You can't install OS X after you realized Windows Vista sucks on your brand new Dell.
With Boot Camp - although I prefer VMware for my legacy windows needs - you are guaranteed a machine with excellent Windows driver support. Apple provides all the drivers you need right on the Leopard DVD.
Want to try something new and have a perfect fallback plan if you hate your new OS? You get the iMac. If you buy the Dell and hate Vista you're out of luck unless you find a Linux distro the suits your needs. Unfortunately, as a Linux user since the mid-90's, I still can't recommend it as a viable home desktop alternative for most people I know.
After Vista (Score:2)
My experience (Score:2)
(I have to keep this short 'cause I'm suppose to be listening in a classroom right now, not posting to Slashdot.. :)
..but having looked at both the Macbook Pro and the Dell XPS m1330(yes, I know the article is about desktops, but...), I ended up with the Dell. It was a very tough call, and for a while it seemed as if I would be purchasing a Mac, however, the Dell edged out on:
1) Size. I really like small laptops. While the 15" MacBook pro was sleek and light, I like the carry-around feel of the Dell bet
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The hardware only needs to be fast enough... (Score:3, Insightful)
Media Card reader? For Reals??? (Score:2)
Why anyone would actually pay $100 more for a Dell than a roughly equivalent iMac is also mysterious. I thought Dell's strong point was their ability to undercut their own Mothers.
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I'm an Apple Fanatic (Score:2, Interesting)
The answer is in the summary (Score:2)
Mossberg says it is a better machine, but Vista and its built-in software make it inferior than Apple iMac's Leopard and iLife suite.
Who cares what's inside the box? It could be a box full of wet sand and duct tape for all I care. If it runs your software faster and provides a better user experience, that's the winner.
strange conclusion (Score:2)
Environmental concerns (Score:2)
A whitebox PC can be upgraded piece by piece without throwing the whole thing out, and is going to last a heck of a lot longer than those tiny things with all those parts crammed in close together, generating heat and vibration.
My advice is to build your own machine, and buy parts that will last five years, then recycle responsibly. One way to do this is to use a friend's box from a Dell XPS one to ship your parts back to Dell for recycling.
I haven't been impressed by t
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position of USB ports (Score:2)
OS X (Score:2)
I build my own (Score:3, Interesting)
If there is one thing that confounds me when I'm trying to show someone how to use a computer it's that godoffal damned fuckwitted doubleclick. I wind up exasperated saying "click on the icon and press 'enter'. It's easier. Its frustrating to new users.
And it's pointless. There's no reason why you should have to have two clicks in a certain time period; one click should highlight, a second should execute. Especially since MS and Linux mice have more than one button!
There are so many things I hate about MS software (not even including bloat, bugs, etc) I'd run out of bits listing them all.
So give me a few new parts and let me install Linux. If I have to buy a whole box it'll be a mac.
-mcgrew
Stop effing saying INDUSTRIAL DESIGN (Score:3, Interesting)
What ever happened to the word 'design?' Do you catch the ghey if you just say something has a nice design? Do you have to say 'industrial' before 'design' so you sound all high-tech? Is it like 'design' is a homosexual concept to men, so you have to say 'industrial' to make it sound manly?
I mean, I get it. I have a Mac Pro at home and a Power Mac G5 at work. Industrial design is probably the best way to describe them. It is NOT the best way to describe other products which are simply well-designed. I have an iPhone, nice design. The Dell XPSOne looks very well designed. But what the hell is industrial about it? It was bad enough when every review of an Apple product that in some way incorporated metal had to say it had great industrial design. But now we're applying it to plastic Dells, too?
What's next, man, I really like the industrial design of your tie?
arrrrgh!!!!
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From Wikipedia on Industrial Design: "Industrial Design (ID) is the professional service of creating and developing concepts and specifications that optimize the function, value and appearance of products and systems for the mutual benefit of both user and manufacturer."
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why are we arguing between two different retail computers? Am I the only one who considers computers to be nothing more than components? I'd save the money, and build it myself.
I have noticed that for the last couple of years, it is getting a lot harder to build a decent system with commodity parts any cheaper than it would be to purchase one off the shelf.
Using sites like tiger and pricewatch, I rarely am able to beat the price. And if you consider the labor to put it together and install whatever OS it gets even more expensive.
10 years ago, I would have agreed with you totally, now, not so much.
Of course, build it yourself boxes alway seem to be better than their off the shelf
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Re:"Standard all-in-one desktop computer?" (Score:5, Insightful)
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I saw OSX with a Unix core, commercial application like Office and Adobe, and said screw it and bought an iBook. i got the stablity of Unix with the commerical software support that Linux lacked. Further more it just works. After I graduated from college
Re:"Standard all-in-one desktop computer?" (Score:5, Funny)
What's Apple's market share again? 3.1416 % (Score:3, Informative)
or something like that?
According to the Fool [fool.com] Apple's market share is 6.3% slice of the domestic PC market, twice what you say. However that's still a small share of the market. However it looks as if Apple Macintosh Computers Likely To Gain Market Share [cnn.com]. And a Wharton Prof Debunks Market Share Myth [seekingalpha.com].
Falcon
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No, no no no ....wait...no! Bootcamp WAS beta but now it is officially supported in Leopard. You've got it exactly backwards. Secondly, you hold the OPTION key down to pick Windows or Mac OS. Is that really hard to show somebody, or find online? Not really. If you really want to idiot proof it, it will boot up in Windows mode EVERY time you power it up,