What to Seek in an Older Subnotebook? 250
cyclomedia writes "I'm looking to buy a subnotebook. For those who think that this form factor was created by the Asus EEE (as, seemingly, does Wikipedia) it might interest you that the current forerunner in my search is a 190MHz,64MB,640x480 256 colour beastie known as the Psion Netbook, circa 2001-ish. Basically, I have a desktop, a server and an Xbox and so truly only want it for surfing, email and the odd bit of SSHing home on weekends away. The aforementioned Psion is, however, of the StrongArm processor variety, which nudges it down on the desireability meter, but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points. So, anyone here got any suggestions of what to look out for on ebay? So long as I can play Doom II on it too, that is."
Any other suggestions for wireless capable subnotebooks with better battery life than things like the EEE or HP's 2133 Mininote?
Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you can find one, an old Sony 505-series is an excellent option. You've got options for a fast P1/MMX or a first-gen P2 (depending on specific model), 128-256MB of RAM and a 8-10GB hard disk is common. It's roughly a 10" screen and about 3 lbs.
What you DON'T get is an optical drive or built-in wifi. You'd need to source those separately, though booting from a USB disk and using a PC-Card or Cardbus wifi card isn't terribly difficult.
Because they're late-90s vintage, they're getting harder to find. However, because of their age, they're also much cheaper than current sub-compact models.
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Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
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Thought (I have a hard time admitting this) I would eventually go with PSP instead due to more new games (I have a DS..)
Though this is open for real, got better resolution, is faster, got two SD-slots,
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I used PXE Boot to install Ubuntu on this laptop and now it sits next to the bed for late night surfing / remote desktop access to other machines.
Here's the link on how to PXE install Ubuntu from a Windows host: http://hugi.to/blog/archive/2006/12/23/ubuntu-pxe-install-via-windows [hugi.to] (it's from 2006, so it references Edgy Eft, but you can pick which
Huh? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Its a ARM so it has more oomph than a Pentium running at 190mhz.
Using a browser like Konqueror would work fine.
I've run Seamonkey and KDE 3.5 on a Pentium 1 laptop before.
Perfectly acceptable for surfing the net and using SSH.
KDE 4 would be even better.
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Maybe Qtopia would work well?
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It's an abandoned platform restricted to ancient software.
OTOH it is neat. It's even leather-bound!
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
How about you stop and think what specs PC's had at the beginning of the 90's, and still people somehow managed to get their stuff done. Apps haven't changed that much in between, we basically do most of the same stuff now that we did back then.
The MobilePro is a great example. It has a WiFi connection and a wired one (thanks to PC cards), solid state storage (CF card), I get to surf the Web, it doubles as a book reader and manga reader, I can listen to streaming online radio or MP3's (got speakers and headphone jack), I play games, edit and view office docs, see PDF's, I have SSH, Total Commander, email, Skype, YM, IRC, remote desktop and VNC, runs Python, got all kinds of file tools (search and so on) etc.
Basically, with the exception of playing movies (although it can do that too with some limitations) or big-ass games or P2P, it's everything a regular desktop is. All that in under 10x5 inches, a regular keyboard, touchscreen, 400 MHz CPU and 64 MB of RAM. Did I mention it has a 16bit screen (65535 colors)? Or that it's a USB host and can use USB printers and mice?
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, apps haven't changed a lot in that time, but the internet certainly has - rather a large amount. Most sites now rely on DHTML/AJAX/CSS/whatever to render properly, and are significantly larger (in terms of amount of rendering code, number and size of images, etc.) than they were even in the late 90s. Add to that the fact that most web designers take a 1024x768 screen and a broadband connection as a benchmark to design for, and suddenly browsing the internet on a low-powered device becomes a lot more problematic.
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only the poorly designed sites do this. All the correctly designed sites still render on older or lass capable hardware.
Just because the current crop of trendy webdesigners cant pull their heads out of their rear and make their sites work for low bandwidth or low power machines does not mean that the entire world does this.
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Are you seriously stating that you're considering a 190mhz machine, with 64MB of RAM, with a 640x480 8-bit display, as a web browser?
It wasn't so many years ago that I used just such a machine to browse the web. Alright, it had 128 megs of RAM, and it was 200 mhz, but then, ARM at 190 mhz is probably faster.
Do you use the same web I do?
I tend to disable Flash and turn on ad blocking, so probably not. And I'm not sure you could run Flash on ARM Linux.
Even applying CSS rules would crush that machine.
Pure hyperbole. All I can really say about that is: Try it.
In fact, to be fair, try it with a 1.0-ish version of Firefox, or earlier -- or something like Konqueror. Modern browsers have indeed bloated.
why? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)
And that matters why? if you are doing 'cluster computing research', presumably you are interested in how the cluster works, not how absolutely fast it is. If it runs at 25% what it would run on 4 dedicated machines, how often does that matter?
And even if you if DO care how absolutely fast it is, throwing one modern 1GHz CPU at 4VMs is still going to outperform 4 190MHz CPUs from the 90s, which is what the OP is suggesting having a preference for.
As the GP said, "virtualisation is not the answer to everything".
That's true. but nobody has made a good case for why it isn't an acceptable answer for THIS.
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and for the record, I hate the sight of my own text. I won't reread any text i write, unless a response makes me question what I originally said. Sometimes what you write is much differnt than wha
Re:why? (Score:5, Interesting)
sub-notebook- $75
specific ram upgrade to 512 MB- $75
battery replacement- $50
PCMCIA 54g card- $30
Total= $230 + 4 hours time to reformat upgrade, etc.
I would think the EE @ $299 looks like a better buy because you also get a warranty. Let's face it notebooks are commodity goods now.
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You owe him a goatse.
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Keep on fighting the good fight, my Slashbrotter.
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EeePC FTW (Score:2)
Much of the "work" I do with a laptop involves a web browser. With the built in WiFi and the ample (trust me) 640x400 screen, it makes browsing from the couch exactly what it should be. The battery life is a little less than it should be for a machine this size but otherwise
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Budget... (Score:4, Informative)
More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSI_Wind_PC [wikipedia.org]
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iPod Touch
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What I look for in an older subnotebook... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What I look for in an older subnotebook... (Score:5, Funny)
12" PowerBook? (Score:5, Informative)
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Powerbook G4s [wikipedia.org] go for about $600 on Ebay [ebay.com] and that sounds like a fair price and it is indeed better than you will get for all but the very best Intel based laptops from the same time period. Battery life is excellent, the screen is good and they are not too heavy. The author seems to be looking for something smaller and would probably not like the optical drive.
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And it will support an internal wireless card, in the minipci slot underneath... It even has an antenna hookup down there.
Why not just get an EEE? (Score:5, Insightful)
in terms of "classic" subnotebooks that are x86 that you still might be able to find is the toshiba libretto line. I think they ranged from 90Mhz to 133 and ran win95. But you'll be hard pressed to find one that the battery still works. Thats really the problem with old laptops is they tend to be broken in someway normally the batteries
Mod parent up (Score:3, Informative)
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Use something like prboom to run your Doom2 - it works well on the EeePC.
Or even install Windows if you really must (or buy the Windows installed version)
Whist an older laptop may seem a good idea, I would be worried about the battery. Most of
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My phone [nokia.com.au] will run Doom 2 [gersbo.dk]
In fact, what the OP needs is a Symbian capable phone and a cheap data plan.
That will do everything a Psion will do and then some. The phone itself might even be free with the right plan.
He'd probably want to add a bluetooth keyboard for the stated purposes though.
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Toshiba Libretto 100CT! (Score:3, Informative)
Quite a nifty machine for circa 1996, problem is now they fall into the "collector" catagory so some people are paying a fortune for them on ePay.
See also: http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/libretto100ct/index.shtm [toshiba-europe.com]
Toshiba Libretto 110CT! (Score:3, Informative)
The 110CT was pretty good to me for the years I had it. I think the only difference between the 100CT and 110CT was the processor speed.
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libretto damn it! spell it right! (Score:4, Informative)
Here's a 110ct, something along what youre asking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150248931102 [ebay.com]
Heres a u105, something more up-to-date: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170217846018 [ebay.com]
I dunno, they were always perfectfor me. I especially loved them when I interfaced it with an ol' oki900. ahhh.. the AMPS days...
as, seemingly, does Wikipedia? (Score:5, Informative)
That sounds spot on to me. How does that sound anything like it's saying that the form factor was created by Asus? They have been around for ages, it's just in the past they either needed a special striped down OS, were incredibly expensive, had bizarre tiny screen resolutions, or they left out things like keyboards to strip them down in size. Sure NOW you can find some great second hand deals, but they couldn't have possibly been compared as anywhere on the same level in price when they were new.
In fact, the wikipeida article looks like a great list of used models to look for.
Netbook is still pretty cool, but think again! (Score:5, Informative)
Because, allthough it is a fully fletched out business system with a neat Java 1.1 enviroment on top of some custom Epoc OS (way ahead of it's time), you can absolutely forget any more that rudymentary surfing on that thing. I strongly suggest you get the brand new and super cheap One A110 [www.one.de] and hack youself some external power option if you want to reach the Netbooks uptime.
And, yes, uptime is what I'd be looking for in any subnote who's prime purpose is to be used for generic tasks while on the road. In that respect a Netbook really is the bar. But the One A110 and the Asus EEE are the new generation (nearly 10 years newer!) and they are actually those up to the Netbook. I'd say they've re-introduced the Handheld era. Might aswell pay that respect and get one.
consider... (Score:4, Interesting)
its got a fairly good battery life; hours on the web (I think I get over 5 doing normal stuff and a little less watching stuff on the BBC. It can do emails in a similar way to thunderbird and you can stick ssh on it fairly easily from a hack from 1.1.4 using ziphone
Re:consider... (Score:5, Informative)
1) You don't have to hack it to do what you want.
2) It has a significantly better resolution (800x480)
3) It has a hardware keyboard (which is fiddly, but at least you don't have to use up screen estate). If you want a better keyboard, you can get USB host mode drivers and plug a USB keyboard into it (or use a bluetooth keyboard).4) It has removable storage.
Second the iPod Touch (Score:3, Interesting)
- apt-get (with Cydia, a rather nice GUI)
- full BSD subsystem (available through Cydia) -- note: this is not the same as the stripped down one on the device, or the one available through Installer.app -- it's a full-fledged toolset, akin to that on desktop Mac OS X
- full OpenSSH port (both client and server)
- usable as a drive, with contents shared via both AppleS
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The iTouch is a lovely device, until you get out of wifi range.
Since it has no bluetooth, it cannot connect to your cellphone to get an internet connection, which means its nothing but a cute iPod. When the 3G iPhone comes out, that may be a real option.
No surfing without a real machine (Score:4, Interesting)
For Email, SSH, and Websurfing using a text browser you could consider something like the Psion Netbook.
The thing that bugs me is that noone seems to have come out with a "new" Psion Netbook. Same configuration, but up to date. With Windows CE (aka Windows Mobile) or Linux, or some other proprietary os. A notebook with very low power and a bad screen that lasts more than 10 hours, but has a full keyboard. But you couldn't play Doom II on that one anyways. Though I wouldn't want to. SSH, email, word processing and organizer with a large screen and a full keyboard would be plenty for me.
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Anyway, the Shift might be a little over(priced|powered), since it is actually a full x86 computer which can run Vista or whatever flavor of Linux while also running WM6 on a separate ARM processor. App
16 bit PC cards (Score:3, Informative)
Why a pain? Acronym hell! PCMCIA/PCCard/CardBus. To be honest I don't know the difference between PCMCIA and PCCard (is there one?), but I sure know the difference between PCCard and Cardbus. But the problem is everything is advertised as PCCard, whether it's PCCard or Cardbus.
Re:16 bit PC cards (Score:5, Informative)
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There's no difference between PCMCIA and PC Card; the standard was officially renamed to the latter because (it was thought) it was an easier & more approachable name.
Thanks, I sort of figured but didn't want to claim to know.
It's still acronym hell
PCMCIA - what you "would" look for in a 16 bit wifi card, if this acronym was in use when WiFi hit the market (It might not have). But I've seen this advertised.
PC Card - What you need if you need a 16 bit card, if all that were labled as PC Card were 16 bit. Many are card bus.
CardBus - What you know for a fact won't work. If the box says this, you know it won't work.
Plus you have all these pesky people who don't know whic
I still have... (Score:4, Informative)
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It'd been in storage for a while before being auctioned on e-bay for how much? a little over $200 for a nearly new notebook that's better better specced than the new Eee 900, lighter & as thin as the MacBook Air while being fully supported by Ubuntu.
At 1ghz with a gig of ram... it sure doesn't feel like it... Can't imagine the OP's suggestion of a ~200mhz ARM laptop being very useful, consideri
P2120 (Score:2)
But yeah... aside from being a little underpowered these days, it's full of awesome.
batteries (Score:4, Insightful)
HTC Universal - a winmobile PPC which "runs Linux" (Score:2, Informative)
Sony PictureBook (Score:3, Informative)
They're available in various x86 processor and RAM capacities, including Transmeta CPUs; the older models (Celeron 266, PII 300) are quite cheap today. Fat battery packs are available (Sony branded ones cost serious bucks but 3rd party units are a lot cheaper) that will run to 12 hours or more uptime. Replacing the HDD with a SSD will save you more battery power. Linux is readily ported onto most of the C1 variants and they all have PCMCIA or CardBus slots to support WiFi.
The accessory I regret not getting for my old PB was a ballistic-nylon shoulder holster for carrying it around.
choices (Score:2)
If you want something smaller and lighter still, get a smart phone and an external bluetooth keyboard.
Check out the Nokia N810 (Score:5, Interesting)
I recently got a Nokia N810 "Internet Tablet", as they call it. It's pocket-sized, much smaller than an Eee for instance, and a little bigger than a Palm TX, but it has a 400 MHz TI OMAP CPU (an ARM with a DSP core glued on), an 800x480 screen, a very usable slide-out mini keyboard, and built-in Wi-Fi, all for $400 (street price). Oh, and it runs Linux. (It's not a cell phone, though it will do VOIP over the Wi-Fi.)
Battery life is excellent: several hours of active use, and several days at idle (you don't really turn it off, you just lock the touch screen and it goes into low-power mode). I recently used it to take notes at a seminar -- in 3 or 4 hours I don't think I used more than 1/3 of a charge.
The Web browser it comes with works very well. Some of the other software is a little rough (the email client doesn't work well in IMAP mode, for instance). It runs SSH and a VNC viewer. I don't know about Doom II, but it plays video pretty well (doesn't always keep up with the frame rate, but it's adequate for pr0n).
These things are all tradeoffs, of course, but I'm happy to take the mini keyboard and the small but hi-res display in exchange for a device that's just barely small enough to carry everywhere, clipped to my belt.
Re:Check out the Nokia N810 - and N800 (Score:3, Informative)
The Nokias also runs Doom, (not doom2?).
Can even run VoIP over your 3G cellphone.
The webbrowser and screen is much better than any phone or PDA, but its not much bigger.
If thats still not good enough, I'll second the IBM X40 (used).
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Not really, the N810 is a comparably good device. I've played with one and they're very shiny.
It has a better screen than the Touch, and a hardware QWERTY keyboard. And built-in GPS. And it runs Linux.
So pick the one that suits you best - it's nice to have a choice between such cool devices.
Nokia N770 / N800 / N810 (Score:3, Informative)
As a Debian-based OS runs the little buggers you probably get the largest functionnality/size ratio out there.
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My gripes are the lack of a decent office suite (though work is being done on gnumeric and Abiword at
rdesktop compatibility (Score:2)
Sharp mm20 (Score:2, Informative)
Great laptop till the hard drive died, after a solid 3 years of use. Then I never got around to putting in a new 1.5" HD since I really didn't need it after I graduated.
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And I could squeeze 8-12 hours of battery out of it. Quiet, too. Put it in laptop mode and let the hard drive spin down, and you've got zero moving parts.
In fact, I'm betting the hard drive is the weak link on that thing -- partly because they break so easily (twice under warranty, I think), and mostly because they're so impossible to find.
Advantage of the Eee PC (Score:4, Insightful)
Toshiba Portege 2000 (Score:2)
Zaurus? (Score:2)
Sharp Actius PC-MM10 (Score:2)
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And yes, Fluxbox was awesome on that -- with the tiny screen, I even stripped things out of Fluxbox, to squeeze a few more pixels out.
ipod touch (Score:2)
What to Seek in an Older Subnotebook? (Score:4, Funny)
Thinkpad 240 (Score:2)
They usually go on ebay for around $100. Spec wise, They have anywhere from a celeron 300 to a pentium 500. and can officially support 192MB of RAM and unofficially 320MB of ram using speical low density 256MB sticks.
Caveats are they are very hard to get OS'es on them due to the fact they don't support usb booting or have a CDROM. Supposedly they can boot from a PCMCIA CDROM but I never tried. I
Dell Latitude C400, for one... (Score:2)
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A Freebie maybe? (Score:2)
Libretto's all the way (Score:4, Funny)
The first one I had, circa 1999-2000, was the size of a VHS casette and fairly competent for its day
A couple of years ago, I upgraded to the newer 100CT, with a couple of gig of ram and such. It's a nice machine. Definitely takes getting used to the keyboard, but for portability, it can't be beat. And just throw a bluetooth or USB keyboard and external display on it when you're tethered.
But when you're on the road, tossing it in a small camera bag, having 5 hours of battery life for the long flights, having room for your laptop and a drink and not worrying about being crushed by the seat in front of you, is very liberating. Similarly, fitting into a small camera bag (honestly, it's not a purse), it goes with me everywhere; I pop it out at the pub or a restaurant or on the road.
Despite the fact I happened to snag one at Future Shop (ugh), in general subnotebooks are something the public doesn't even seem to know exists. I get a lot of comments from people just fascinated by it, thinking it must just be a Windows CE machine at first, and being blown away when they realize how powerful it is.
There is one downside: one time on a flight, the female flight attendant saw it, pointed down towards my lap, and said loudly, "wow, that's the smallest one of those I ever saw!" With the ensuing laughter, she turned many shades of red...
I just tell people that with such a small laptop, I'm clearly not trying to compensate for anything
Hmm (Score:2)
Seriously, get an iPod touch and jailbreak it. Sounds like that'll allow it to do everything you want, and at as low as $230 on Amazon, there's not much reason not too. Except, of course, the lack of any good interface and the screen size. But depending on what you need it for, it may work quite well. Battery life is phenomenal too - I don't know exactly how long mine lasts, but I know it's over 10 hours. And most of that i
Dude, You're Getting A Dell - Latitude C400 !!! (Score:2)
my rig: old thinkpad (Score:2)
~$100 Thinkpad 570, 266 MHz, 192 MB SDRAM
~$80 40 GB HD (this was years ago)
~$15 Floppy drive
~$80 Battery refill
I'm thinking about getting an SSD too, to see what effect it'll have on battery life. W
Availability of PCMCIA WIFI cards. (Score:2)
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