Cell Phones For Easy App Development? 97
linnrose writes "When I purchased my current cell phone — a ATT/Samsung Sync — my primary reason for selecting it was Samsung told me I could install custom Java applications on it via USB or the microSD card; turns out they lied to me. I would really like to have a phone that is open enough for me to install simple Java (or whatever language; I'm primarily a C# developer) apps without having to download them from a server. And it doesn't have to be cutting-edge/feature-rich; gimme a nice color screen and good call quality. I'm thinking Nokia might have something useful, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions?"
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Why would he do that when it's perfectly simple to jailbreak the phone? Then you can run your custom apps for free. It doesn't sound like the submitter is interested in distributing the apps he writes.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If he's looking for something cheaper, I can vouch for RAZRs working with Java apps. There's a simple USB Mini port on the side (cable not included) that can be used to hook it up to a computer and transfer applications.
I have also been told that many Nokia phones allow Java programs to be installed, but I do not know the details of those.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
It actually depends on the type of RAZR you have. I have a RAZR v3m and I can not put Java apps on it. If you have access to a Linux desktop, I would recommend grabbing Moto4Lin. I messed around with this and it allowed me to easily mod the RAZR by giving me access to parts of the RAZR filesystem (I think Motorolla hides parts of the FS).
Anyways, my RAZR can only run BREW apps. To develop BREW apps, one has to pay a licensing fee...
Android cant get here soon enough in my opinion
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And you have to buy a Mac to develop them.
iPhone is the LAST phone that I would select for that. And I also suspect that if you succeed in porting Java to the iPhone Apple will blacklist that really soon since it will be in conflict with the developer license.
SonyEricsson, Nokia or any Windows Mobile phone should be fine. Operator branded phones may be lobotomized from the prospect of installing apps on them.
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
iPhone is the LAST phone that I would select for that.
Depends if the apps are for yourself or to sell/give to others. iPhone is soon going the only phone that matters if you are developing apps for other people. And I know it sucks, I have one. But given the amount of activity in the App store and on the illegal installers you'd be hard to not recognize that the iPhone is here to stay. I suppose to fully understand you will need to spend some serious time with a jailbroken iPhone running firmware 2.0.
Re: (Score:2)
iPhone is soon going the only phone that matters if you are developing apps for other people.
I didn't realize the iPhone was reaching 100% market penetration so quickly. Out of the ~1,150,000,000 phones sold last year, how many of those were iPhones? 3%? That's a lot to make up this year.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
you need to fine tune your crude statistics, % of market penetration for all phones does not give a good sense of things. Think a bit deeper... take those 1,150,000,000 phones sold, break it down by model
If this number is significant then only the iPhone will matter.
Also factor in the following:
- iPhone is just over 1 year old and two model years old
- 3% for on
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Become a registered iPhone Developer (Score:5, Insightful)
It simply amazes me that so many people in the slashdot crowd don't see a problem with this.
Re: (Score:2)
This simply isn't true. BREW, used by Verizon's Get It Now service, Alltel and other CDMA carriers in the USA have a "single point of origin" system in place as well. All applications are centrally submitted and tested via QUALCOMM and these are placed in a centralised application database which carriers can select applications from. This ridiculous claim that Apple is somehow the first to do this or the big nasty one for doing this needs to be put to bed - they have replicated and tweaked a business model
He said *REQUIRES* (Score:1)
I can install 3rd party apps downloaded from anywhere on the net on my N95. To do the same on an iPhone you have to jailbreak it. Jailbreaking may be easy, but why would you want a phone that's defective by design?
Sure, N95 apps have to be signed and it's a pain having to create a developer account with Nokia to self-sign but at least it's free beer.
This is why I'm totally bemused by the iPhone popularity, not necessarily amongst trendy people who don't know any better but also amongst technically aware peo
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
God I hope not. What a dismal future that would be.
Andrioid (Score:1)
I'm a java developer and being able to easily write and deploy my own phone apps is exactly why I'm so excited about Android. It has a full SDK and Google promises that you can install your own software on your own phone!
Go check it out...
Clicky clicky [google.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
If you roll in the Java world, then check out the Blackberry. It's really easy to develop for, there's a bunch of tools out there, and installing and removing apps is a breeze through the USB cable. (or a server for that matter)
Has anyone done any development for the Blackberry on Linux? I use Eclipse for most of my development these days, and it looked like the only Blackberry Eclipse plugin/toolkit [blackberry.com] was an unfriendly Windows binary. Anyone have any better experiences with it?
I'm not about to put together another machine or waste money on a Windows license just to develop cell phone software, especially when it seems that there's no specific reason why there isn't a readily available Linux port of their toolkit.
Yeah, I'm just wait
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
More details please (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I second that. I love my W580i.
Re: (Score:2)
Panchira! (Score:2)
The only crippled features I can think of are the permanently enabled camera noise
In some markets where your phone is sold, statutes or regulations require "the permanently enabled camera noise" to counter invasion of privacy.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'll jump in too for supporting Sony Ericsson phones as a simple phone development platform. They've an active and extensive developer site and it looks pretty easy to get simple apps written and installed.
I did reflash the firmware on my branded w580i back to factory and it's much easier to work with now without all the vendor crap on it.
Android may be the future but until then SE phones will satisfy my urge to tinker with simple phone apps.
Re: (Score:1)
All nokia phones (Score:4, Informative)
At least here in the EU, I don't know it it is the same in the US, but every nokia phone I bought (now I own a 6111) has had the capability of installing j2me apps from the memory card, vie USB or simply by copying them from the PC to the mobile over bluetooth.
If you are a developer and would like to hack your mobile, maybe you could have a look at the Freerunner?
Windows Mobile (Score:2)
Sad to say it, but Windows Mobile phones are probably the most widely available "open for developers" phones out there. WM does have app signing, but every WM phone I've seen allows the user to easily override the signing function. It's basically "This app is unsigned, are you sure you want to run it? Yes/No" - The nice thing is that the phone *remembers* this answer until the app's hash changes.
Most current Linux phones are heavily locked down (such as the Motorola MOTOMAGX based phones).
Android based p
Re:Windows Mobile (Score:5, Informative)
First, why is it sad? Second, I have had extensive experience developing for Windows Mobile (alongside some poor slobs who were saddled with having to develop the same application for Symbian and Java). While I can say that I had a very positive experience, my compatriots were not so lucky. The tools (Embedded Visual Studio) were free. And as a big bonus, I was able to do 90-95% of my development on the desktop the same source could be built and run on a desktop Windows box and then, with a small smattering of #ifdefs, built and deployed onto either a pocket PC style (touchscreen with stylus) or Smartphone style target device. As you can imagine, source-level debugging an application in desktop Visual Studio is orders of magnitude more efficient than fiddling around with simulators or worse, tethered devices running in some sort of half-speed debugger mode under control of a desktop. I also dabbled with BREW (uggh) though not for terribly long. For my money, Windows Mobile is definitely the way to go if you want to develop applications for personal consumption.
Re: (Score:2)
I figured a Windows Mobile platform would be a first choice as well especially with the op C# experience.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like the HTC TyTn II aka AT&T Tilt.
Or the HTC Touch Pro (not yet released for AT&T but coming in a month or so most likely)
The only thing from your list missing is a decent camera, but that's something you're just plain never going to see in a cell phone. There's just no room for a decent sized sensor to get acceptable noise performance.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
On Symbian you can also self sign.
Windows Mobile dev w/o Windows and VS? (Score:2)
Sad to say it, but Windows Mobile phones are probably the most widely available "open for developers" phones out there.
Is there a good way to compile apps for Windows Mobile on Linux? Or on Windows without buying a copy of Visual Studio Standard or higher? (Visual C++ Express lacks the Windows Mobile SDK.) Is CeGCC arm-mingw32ce [sourceforge.net] any good?
Depends on your audience (Score:1, Interesting)
I've done development on Symbian and Blackberry products; advice for these: Run away, terribly fast.
I haven't explored Windows Mobile due to it's serious speed stability issues on the two phones that I've had that run it, but it's likely your only hope for C#.
If you can do C, Objective-C for the iPhone looks quite tasty (I've only browsed the source), and the Android platform is mostly here now, with some very tasty phones coming to major carriers this Christmas.
So my advice would be that you need to decid
BlackBerry? Older Symbian? Windows Mobile? (Score:2)
It's my understanding that anyone with a BlackBerry and the Windows desktop software can install Java (J2ME or J2ME+BBapi) apps on their BlackBerries via serial/USB.
I know older Symbian devices could install via memory card as well (I had a Nokia 6600), but I've heard enough scare stories about newer Symbian revs to wonder if that's still the case.
In *theory*, anyone with ActiveSync should be able to sync/install on a Windows Mobile phone. I've never used one myself, and the one person I know with a Window
Windows Mobile? (Score:5, Informative)
I have one of the Veriozon windows mobile phones, it has .net compact framework, and even compact sql server.
I got it mainly because I could write my own c# apps for the thing. Visual studio even has a nice emulator built in.
Re:Windows Mobile? (Score:4, Interesting)
I have one of the Veriozon windows mobile phones, it has .net compact framework, and even compact sql server.
I got it mainly because I could write my own c# apps for the thing. Visual studio even has a nice emulator built in.
I can't quite get over Windows Mobile's horrific interface design. I mean, if I wanted a small desktop, I think I could just buy one [asus.com]. It's not really designed to be controlled with fingers (opting instead for a stylus), and is a pretty huge pain to use. Not that some of the other entries in the mobile phone OS market aren't horrible ... Nokia managed to get around the finger problem recently with their menu system in Maemo [maemo.org], even though that's not really available for phones.
Here's to hoping Android works better in "real life". Running it under Windows Mobile is painful at best.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, when I needed a new phone, I also needed a new pda (my sony clie is a bit old), so I got both in one. I actually use more of the pda functionality (like the calendar) since I carry the phone most places, while my pda stayed in my bag, or at home.
I like it, and I can write apps for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, when I needed a new phone, I also needed a new pda (my sony clie is a bit old), so I got both in one. I actually use more of the pda functionality (like the calendar) since I carry the phone most places, while my pda stayed in my bag, or at home.
I like it, and I can write apps for it.
Problem is, you have to buy into the whole thing. You can't develop for Windows Mobile without a Windows desktop and a Windows development environment.
Haven't had a Windows machine since 1999, and I'm not about to get one just so I can write apps for a phone. J2ME-based apps provide much greater market penetration, and hopefully if Android is adopted by enough companies, I can avoid the prospect of designing for either the iPhone or any WinCE hardware.
Re: (Score:1)
This one [sourceforge.net] looks promising. I might give it a try.
If I can get that working with qt [trolltech.com] I'd be pretty happy.
gvim + CeGCC + qt => good enough for tinkering with. (if it works)
Re: (Score:1)
Hurry to Amazon NOW! (maybe) (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
As a heads up it uses European frequencies, and only has the higher frequency for North America. Its fine for T Mobile which only uses 1900mhz, but if you use it with At&T you'll find it wont work indoors as much as other phones, which have both North American bands.
IBM J9 + WinMob or PalmOS + SWT (Score:1)
With Windows Mobile and PalmOS devices, you can install IBM's J9 JVM (you can buy it for six dolla online) and then code in Java. I think the current version lets you code in Java 5. Couple that with SWT, and you have a nice environment in Java that's pretty frickin' cheap, but not an iPhone.
Failing Java+SWT on J9, I'd program for the iPhone (I'd do that before that, but I have no Intel based Mac :( )
Re: (Score:1)
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/wireless/weme/ [ibm.com]
Has a trial.
You used to be able to buy it for $6 at Handango, but they've redone their website to be totally unusable.
Java on PocketPC:
http://blog.vikdavid.com/2004/12/java_on_pocketp.html [vikdavid.com]
Re: (Score:1)
1. Get a cantaloupe/melon. Cut a hole in it, 6-inches deep (more or less :)
When attempting to cut a hole to match, I wound up splitting the cantaloupe in half. The next few attempts resulted in similar failure. Would a watermelon be a sufficient substitute? please advise on the matter.
Re: (Score:2)
Lots of Choices (Score:4, Informative)
To be honest, I'm really suprised your phone doesn't let you just upload J2ME apps and run them, most phones (RAZR, etc) let you do it, some might require you buy a $6 cable, but its nothing serious.
If you want more choices:
1)Symbian based phones. You can run native C++ apps, and J2ME based ones. A popular example would be the N95.
2)Iphone, although you'll need to go through the iTunes store or jailbreak it.
3)Windows mobile phones, not sure which one to reccomend here.
4)OpenMoko, although I hear this phone still needs a while to go before it becomes something someone will want to use as their primary phone
5)Wait for an android based phones.
However before purchasing new phone see if you can get a cable or modify your phone in such a way you can load java apps onto it, because I'm really surprised its that heavily locked down.
Re: (Score:1)
Windows Mobile (Score:1)
For C# / .NET code, Windows Mobile is the answer. Developing for it from Visual Studio is really simple, almost like for desktop Windows Forms apps, it supports remote debugging via USB and it has a emulator with many device profiles (different display and keyboard configurations).
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsmobile/default.aspx [microsoft.com]
As for WM phones, HTC or Asus (a bit cheaper, I have a P750) make solid ones.
Re: (Score:1)
And if you want to write anything that interacts with the phone beyond pretty graphics you're pretty much stuffed - limited or no access to sms, network, logs and voice.
However Python on the Nokia (S60 FP2+) is a different kettle of fish altogether, it seems to shaping up to what java ME was promised to be.
Nokia+Python (Score:5, Informative)
Information about the interpreter: http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/pythonfors60/ [nokia.com]
The latest version is available at the Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pys60 [sourceforge.net]
OpenMoko (Score:2)
You should check out the OpenMoko: http://openmoko.com/ [openmoko.com]
I don't have one. However, at the linux users group I attend ( http://ale.freeshell.org/ [freeshell.org] ), a group of people who got them via one of the group purchase agreements came to last night's meeting. I was pretty impressed.
It does cost $300 or $400 depending on what model you get, and then you have to get one of the cellular services that works on a sim chip thing.
At least one of the guys at the linux meeting was using it as his daily phone. However he al
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The "sim chip thing" is GSM, which most places (T-Mobile, AT&T, etc) use.
If you need it for day-to-day use, QTopia is stable and pretty. You can then develop using Qt, which isn't bad, as long as you like C++ (or you can use Python bindings or whatnot).
If you want to explore, install the FSO image, and develop using Vala, which has a C#-like syntax, but compiles using an intermediate C step. It's fast, efficient, and not a bad language, even if it *is* modelled on C#.
It has easy access to accelerometers
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Blackberry / Research in Motion (Score:1)
RIM offers a Blackberry JDE for their phones. It looks slick and well integrated, and comes with an emulator and tons of samples. One caveat - I haven't actually built anything with it yet
Sony Ericsson K800i (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
Samsung should be ashamed (Score:2)
I have been personally bitten by this Samsung crippling "feature" too. Java apps/games can only be installed via a server/EDGE, not via USB or microSD or via Bluetooth file exchange. Samsung is the only manufacturer that does that, and I have my share of experience with many cellphones.
Linux based Mororola (Score:2, Informative)
Phone is easily reflashable [modmymoto.com] including mods [bashorg.net.ru] that add telnet and FTP ;-)
BlackBerry (Score:2)
I have a BlackBerry and happily code for it in Java. I use a Mac with VMware to run Windows so I can run the SDK's tools.
Pros:
- The device OS is itself written in Java, so your Java apps are not second class citizens
- API is intelligently designed and easy to work with
- Good API documentation
- Simulator runs the actual OS code
- Apps can be loaded using a USB cable
- Apps can be debugged as they run on the device itself through that USB cable
- SDK downloadable for free in a few clicks
- Lots of people have Bl
Re: (Score:2)
I second this, and I've used everything. If you want to work with Java, this choice is a no-brainer.
Sprint/Nextel or AT&T/T-mobile (Score:4, Informative)
If you're in the US, two general choices:
Sprint will let you load pretty much any Java ME app that does not use protected APIs on your phone. For their CDMA phones, you'll need a special developer unlock to use protected APIs (easy to get). For their Nextel phones, you can sign any apps that use protected APIs using the iDEN SDK they have available. Visit their developer site (http://developer.sprint.com) and you'll find links to tools to do Over-the-air (or cable installs in the Nextel case) of Java apps on your phones.
Pretty much any GSM phone with Java ME you can use to download apps over the air. AT&T does not make this difficult, and lets you download applications over the air to any of their Java ME capable phones. If the application uses a protected API, you'll probably have to get it developer enabled as well -- their developer website (http://developer.att.com) should help you with what you need.
T-Mobile also has wide open phones for Java ME apps, as long as they're not using protected APIs.
For Verizon, you're SOL.
BlackBerry devices are all pretty open and you can install whatever you want on them as long as it's not locked up by your system administrator. The APIs are as rich as they come.
Re: (Score:2)
You're right, I didn't mention WinMobile. I have a blindspot to WinMobile -- I guess I've been in Java ME-land too long.
Generally speaking, I have seen either lot of crapware on WinMobile or good apps that are much more expensive than their Java ME counterparts (3X-5X). Basically, even though Microsoft is probably the best company out there in supporting developers, they haven't managed to create a hugeexcited developer ecosystem for the WinMobile platform for some reason. I think it's because of what you m
iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, someone had to mention the obvious. But the iPhone is really great to develop for. Once you've learnt Objective-C, the whole dev environment is very good, and I've heard that from quite a few people, many professional software developers among them.
C# (Score:2)
Sounds like a Windows Mobile device with .NET would be a choice then. Haven't ever tried them out myself (I'm very sick of mobile devices so I don't check them out really) and I have heard some bad and some good about WM, but it should be a good fit if you want the MS development suite and languages.
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the folks I know who've gotten WinMobile devices for the purpose of getting apps on them seem to be happy (with the exception of WinMobile SmartPhone (not Pocket PC Phone edition) users, who tend to be unhappy because the platform allows the carrier to lock it down) -- at least happy in that they can get applications they download of the interwebs on their phone.
My experience is also that there are a huge number of fairly crappy/duplicative applications written for WinMobile, and that the good appli
My opinion (Score:1)