Has the Glory Gone Out of Working In IT? 623
An anonymous reader writes to wonder if the glory has gone out of IT. One blogger remembered his first impression upon entering a profession in IT that made it seem like the place to be, with a new shiny around every corner. What experiences have others had? Has a more pervasive technical culture forced our IT gurus into obsolescence?
huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Ain't that the truth. When I first started work here, I thought it'd be really exciting, a way to be part of something big. But every day, it's just the same, "Where's my Death Ray command server?" this, "My patience grows thin!" that, "If I don't have my Death Ray command server up by midnight, I shall unleash my pretties upon you!", and on and on. Well, gee, Mr. Big Shot, perhaps if you didn't build the server room deep inside a freaking ACTIVE VOLCANO, perhaps we wouldn't have so many overheating issues.
There's just no respect in this industry.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, any infrastructure service, be it power or roads or IT, is intentionally uninteresting. "Interesting" means noticeable or memorable, and it's pretty much only the problems that people notice and remember.
Indeed. There never was glory in IT, in any case, only the illusion of it back in the 90s when everybody was talking about the internet taking off and suddenly being the guy "who knows about computers" made you awe-worthy.
Now everybody sees IT services like they see the plumbing. They expect it to wo
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed. IT is not a glory field, it's the bastard child of customer service (in the eyes of those who don't understand it). Basically because everyone needs it, nobody understands it, and it's usually undervalued.
Confusing IT (Score:4, Interesting)
The glory of IT is not in IT, but in software engineering. IT is the dark, smelly, hairy underbelly of computing technology. Software engineering is the light, bright, wonderful topside, basking in sunshine and wonder.
IT personnel are responsible for keeping crappy, obsolete, virus-laden servers working without enough money to get anything better. Any money spent on IT is considered an expense. "Good" IT consists of finding the cheapest off-the-shelf software to sorta do the job.
Software engineers are given the challenge of a problem to solve, and the money and time to do it in. Good software engineering consists of designing the most elegant technical architecture to solve the problem.
IT personnel are regularly yelled at as if they were barely more valuable than a "click next to install package" monkey because that's often what they are. Even when personally far more capable, the job only requires you to "click next" when installing somebody else's software, perform backups, and set passwords. IT personnel are relegated to the back store room and not allowed to see anybody, except accidentally on the bus on the way to the local Carl's Jr.
Software engineers regularly meet with executives in fancy boardrooms with glass tables. They are there to design quality solutions that will be used by thousands or millions. They are treated with accord, respect, and often, mild deference. Lunch is often provided by hired caterers at design meetings.
No matter how "senior" you are in IT, you are easily replaceable by anybody with the requisite MCSE certificate.
There are never enough qualified software engineers - they are pretty much always in high demand and paid to match. When software engineers work in a field, they quickly acquire domain expertise that's almost impossible to replace.
People who confuse IT and Software Engineering often wind up working in the wrong field. Put in the time to become a software engineer, and you won't ever regret it. Cram through your MCSE or CCNA, and become one of the faceless droids. (Yay! I know what an MSI file is! I can calculate a subnet!)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Informative)
Hell, I'm only here for the money!!
That's the ONLY reason I'm at any job whatsoever, it is nothing more than a means to an end...the end being my being able to live the lifestyle I wish. The job does nothing more than enable to me to do as I please.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd not even bother coming back here to pack anything up.
Work for glory? I can't even fathom the concept...
Re:huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you'd find something you like doing, you could end up having fun at your job, and kill 2 birds with one stone, maybe ? At least, that's what the IT field is for me!
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
If you'd find something you like doing, you could end up having fun at your job...
I tried that but "my" idea of "Condom Test Driver" and the Trojan corporation's version of "Condom Test Driver" didn't synch...now I repair computers
Re:huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh don't get me wrong, it isn't like this is a drudge or anything, I like tinkering around with computers and such, I do it some in my free time, but, if I were independently wealthy, no, I'd NEVER work again. I'd do what interests me, it would surely involve some computer geek activities,but, honestly, I found out a year or so ago when I had 7 months off between contracts. My day generally involved, getting up, walking the dog...hitting the gym for a couple hours, then getting on my motorcycle, and riding around New Orleans all day, exploring and finding fun things to do. At the end of the day, I'd meet somewhere with friends getting off work for a few beers, wash, rinse repeat.
I would have no problem doing that for the rest of my life, while, of course, taking vacations off to travel somewhere caribbean to a beach on occasion.
No, I learned there, that I could easily occupy myself with travelling, having fun in NOLA, doing things with friends and chasing women the rest of my days, and NEVER miss a day of work again if I were to get such an opportunity.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
you might find this interesting:
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html [ted.com]
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If you'd find something you like doing, you could end up having fun at your job, and kill 2 birds with one stone, maybe ?
So you're suggesting that they work on improving control software for a poultry slaughterhouse? I'm confused.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
With an attitude like that, the GP probably never showed a passion for the business, or a drive to maximize all synergies, protecting customer value and driving profits. Basically, he has the right attitude for life, automatically excluding any possibility at management whatsoever.
Signed,
Someone told by management he was ineligible for management, and, thus far, pretty happy about that.
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If you are working to satisfy a bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy need then you are a waste of a paycheck. The last thing the IT world needs is another mouse-jockey who can defrag a Windows server. "
Hardly...I work mostly with Solaris and Linux. I specialize in Oracle DBA work, and data design when doing dev work, amongst other IT concerns. I work contract work...I work for money, period.
I don't actually understand why that seems to upset some people such as yourself..? I just don
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No, I've always looked at any job in that fashion. It isn't the wrong job, it is any form of WORK that I have to do to earn a living. If I didn't have to earn a living, I would certainly never do any form of what most people call work. I would play 24/7.
I only do ANY job for the money. While I think that your enjoying your job is great, my POV is not any less valid. I have plenty of things I love to do that I wo
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Yup, agreed, like the rest :D
Been in IT for almost 15 years now, and I never recall there being glory. Maybe in the 60s or something - but I doubt it.
I like to fix stuff. I don't like people. I like computers. I didn't do it for glory - I did it for a living, and for the fun of playing with new tech years before most people even hear of it.
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Re:huh? (Score:5, Informative)
According to this article [newscientist.com] the only problem an IT guy should have getting laid is the fact that an 80 hour work week doesn't leave much time for anything but work.
And, women don't go for "glorious" guys, they go for tall, rich, funny men. Usually they'll settle for one of the three.
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
So you're not rich anymore. FAIL!
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Safe to say that if it took all his money to buy a pair of platform shoes and a handful of rubber chickens, he wasn't rich to begin with....
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Re:huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
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If you regularly work more than 40 hours, you are incompetent. A job which demands you to work "extra" except in cases of rare emergency is a job anyone with any competence will leave.
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Being a veteran myself I can simply suggest, from my own experience, that 60% of the people I ever observed in their position were incompetent idiots or total slackers doing the absolute minimum to ride out for their 20 years. Now, perhaps the duty stations I had assignments for were filled with an inordinate amount of morons, but other intelligent personnel seemed to have the same experience that I did. I can only speak with regards to the Navy and Air Force (I didn't interact with the Marines, God Bless
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So, just because you have brains doesn't mean that pocket protectors, horn-rims, and mismatched socks are now "hot."
If you have horn rimmed glasses, pocket protectors, mismatched socks and are trying to get laid, you're fooling yourself about your having any brains.
Re:huh? (Score:4, Informative)
They seem to be hot on certain girls (actually the "nerdy" look has become something of a in-fashion thing for some girls), but for guys it should be avoided like the plague.
What I've generally found is: dress well. Nice leather shoes and belt, a watch with no LCD's inside, slacks, and a button up shirt. Wash, shave, and use some cologne (and for goodness sakes keep your hair presentable). Not only do the girls act far more receptive, but merely feeling well groomed when you're out will give you a lot more confidence, and that confidence will actually do a lot more towards helping your chances than the look itself will.
Now, I'm certainly not a "playa", but I have had a lot more success since I started actually dressing well when I went out.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
actually the "nerdy" look has become something of a in-fashion thing for some girls
Nerdy looking girls turn me on.
a watch with no LCD's [sic] inside
A watch? How quaint! Why would you need a watch when you have a cell phone?
slacks, and a button up shirt
Odd, the women I know have convinced me to ditch the slacks and button up shirt, they say it makes me look like Mr. Rogers with a goatee. The only women who seem attracted to me when I dress like that are hookers. [slashdot.org]
Re:huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
A watch? How quaint! Why would you need a watch when you have a cell phone?
Because the watch is more about actually having a decent looking watch on, and not for telling time (which is why I stated the "no LCD" rule ;)).
Odd, the women I know have convinced me to ditch the slacks and button up shirt, they say it makes me look like Mr. Rogers with a goatee. The only women who seem attracted to me when I dress like that are hookers.
Depends on the atmosphere and crowd. If you're 21, maybe don't do the slacks + button up. If you're close to or past 30 though, it's the way to go.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Talking to an IT crowd about good watches is like trying to hold a conversation about fine wine with the drunks at the local bar.
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
A watch? How quaint! Why would you need a watch when you have a cell phone?
I can glance at a watch in a meeting without looking like a jerk. Also, I like watches.
Re:huh? (Score:4, Funny)
It's hard for a sane person to spend 30 grand for a watch, too.
Can we say "compensating?"
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Well, I think by glory he means prestige. And quite frankly, it has gone out, and greed/incompetence has taken care of that. There was once a time where being a police man was a title of privilege and respect. Now the government has pushed laws that turn them into fat, power greedy (at the expense of civil liberties), money hungry (ticket/fine scams and other dirty practices) pigs. With IT, the brass has made them into dispensable scapegoats that slave away for meager salaries with the fear of being replace
Re:huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
>There was once a time where being a police man was a title of privilege and respect. Now the government has pushed laws that turn them into fat, power greedy (at the expense of civil liberties),
You are suffering from the fallacy of idealizing the past. Ironically, a modern police officer is more professional, better educated, and better paid than his past peers. Something tells me youve never read about law enforcement in NYC in the 1800's.
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
With IT, the brass has made them into dispensable scapegoats that slave away for meager salaries with the fear of being replaced in a heartbeat.
And who is responsible for that?
Think about it: who has convinced employers that IT people don't need to know anything about computing - they just push buttons.. any monkey could do that! You don't need someone who actually understands what the computer is doing, the three "R"s are all they need to know!
"Brass" hears all this from some marketing idiot, sees that everything is just pushing buttons on a GUI, and decides that all their IT guys are overpaid who are deserve blame when something breaks.
The problem is MS, for making non-IT people think that users should be the same thing as administrators.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Now the government has pushed laws that turn them into fat, power greedy (at the expense of civil liberties), money hungry (ticket/fine scams and other dirty practices) pigs
Oh come on... how many police officers do you know? You're basing this on a stereotype - and like most stereotypes there is an element of truth to it, but that's hardly the whole picture; and it's certainly not accurately representative of the whole.
Re:huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:huh? (Score:4, Funny)
... 72 virgins were laid before me ...
So you got promoted as head of IT with 72 of your fellow workers now reporting to you?
Re:huh? (Score:5, Funny)
No Way! When i pulled that bad drive from the 3140c, and replaced it with the replacement that had arrived this morning, the clouds overhead parted as the Valkyries sang and I rose to my rightful place, occupying the throne of Odin. As the gods before me gasped and awed at my most masterful replacement and saving of the data, 72 virgins were laid before me and I now rule in GLORY!!!!
So, 72 of your coworkers were impressed by your l33t $k!llz. Stop showboating about it, already.
Failure IS an option. Boy, were we fooled! (Score:3, Insightful)
Without going into an endless dissertation of how technology developments 1.) happen, 2.) have their sweet spot (golden years) then 3.) become pedestrian in nature, yes. The IT party's been long over. If you've got a solid rep, been in the business for a while and stay ahead of the curves (which implies you still enjoy the challenges to some degree) you'll likely be able to see a current IT career out to your "retirement". If you're just starting or under the age of thirty run quickly another way. I mean R
The Glory went out of IT (Score:5, Insightful)
The day we traded the guru individualist programmer doing arcane tweaks inspired by the architecture of the machine, for the team in India writing on spec using no memory or speed optimization whatsoever.
Re:The Glory went out of IT (Score:5, Insightful)
Simpler than that: when we allowed project managers to think they actually were qualified to manage projects.
Re:The Glory went out of IT (Score:4, Insightful)
A good IT project manager is worth his or her weight in gold.
Because they are about as a rare.
But when you work with them, it makes all the difference.
those days are not gone (Score:2)
Those arcane tweaks inspired by machine architecture are still here, as long as you're going OS kernel coding or low-level performance-oriented stuff.
Re:those days are not gone (Score:5, Funny)
Those arcane tweaks are still there because the guy left 8 years ago and NOBODY REMEMBERS HOW TO FIX IT.
"Whatever you do, just don't touch that code. It's been working that way since before I got here. We tried to change it once and it took us 6 days to get the wolverine back in the cage."
Re: (Score:2)
The day we traded the guru individualist programmer doing arcane tweak
Why should we want a individualist programmer doing arcane tweaks? That sort of thing often seems to end up being an unmanageable mess somewhere down the road. I'd much rather that things be done in a standard and easy-to-manage way, especially given how overpowered modern machines are for what most of us use them for.
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Because it works today. It'll even work tomorrow.
Your "standard easy-to-manage way" will quickly grow into a bloated behemoth. It will barely work even today. By tomorrow, it will have collapsed under its own bloatedness, the "standard" will have been replaced with the new "s
Re:The Glory went out of IT (Score:4, Insightful)
You know the magic has gone out when everything is reduced to a dichotomy between miniscule speed increases and enormous manageability increases. Of course the answer is obvious when it's phrased that way; of course it's a false dichotomy. At the very least, "readability" is in the eye of the beholder; performance, usually a bit more objective.
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Actually, it's ever since the CEO started to get computer advice from a salesman instead of his IT staff. The CEO then had to use his position to order the IT staff to implement bad software/hardware.
This made CEOs look bad so they created the CIO position to off-load bad decision making and be able to fire the CIO when the shit hit the fan.
In the end, the IT staff is undervalued, demoralized and stressed.
Re:The Glory went out of IT (Score:4, Insightful)
the IT staff is undervalued, demoralized and stressed.
Which is exactly the way they like us
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Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
To be honest, I don't even understand what question is being asked.
What does he/she mean by "glory"?
And a "new shiny" what? "around every corner"?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
I accidentally the whole new shiny.
Wait, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Carpenter vs. pre-fab (Score:5, Interesting)
Cabinet Maker Working in Home Depot (Score:5, Insightful)
These days, I feel like a cabinet maker working in home depot. I have a bunch of skills that are not being utilized because the majority of the work happening (at least where I work anyways) has shifted from creating custom solutions to installing, maintaining, and supporting 3rd party applications. My job satisfaction is eroding. While I used to take pride in creating stable, elegant solutions to complicated problems, I now spend most of my time fighting with messy integrations.
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I dunno. Around here, if you have money, you likely had your cabinetry done by Amish. Done by hand, great amount of pride in workmanship, yet somehow not too much more expensive than Home Depot.
Glory? (Score:5, Insightful)
R&D and MIT media lab aside ( I wouldn't call that sort of thing IT even though there is some overlap)
When I hear IT I think of my corporate support staff.
As far as I am concerned there has never been any glory in that thankless job.
I mean how glorious can a job be where the only recognition you'll get is when you screw something up?
When you are good at your job in IT nobody notices you since the goal of most IT shops is to be transparent to the user....
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Has there ever been glory in IT?
No.
I've been working in IT for even longer than my low 6 digit id would suggest and I can say that for all but a small group of elite or lucky people, IT has always been a dreary grind of database access code, support calls, and test scripts.
Even in the 70's when you had the Xerox PARC team of about 50 people, they were outnumbered thousands of times over by all the people writing non Y2K compliant accounting systems in COBOL.
Glory? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVkEk-ci8xk [youtube.com]
Pretty sure the point.. (Score:3, Informative)
was that working in IT sucks. The lead character found happiness by quitting the field entirely. The other characters stayed in the field because "it's a job." Office Space brought sympathy to the career field. Not glory.
The cult classic that actually glorified being a geek was "Hackers."
There was glory in IT? (Score:2)
When? I've been in IT, as a programmer, since 93. Never saw any Glory. Except down to the truck stop south of town, where she was working.
a long time ago (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe if you were a UNIVAC technician, that was pretty cool. But in my lifetime I can't recall IT ever being a "glorious" occupation. Sure, there are jobs in the broader tech industry that might have that mythologized element. In the 70s and 80s, you've got Woz in a garage as sort of the canonical example. But IT still wasn't glorious in that era. The IT people weren't Woz; they were mainly at places like IBM, servicing thousands of mainframes and minicomputers. There was not an aura of glory around that job, even if it paid well and may have been interesting.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe if you were a UNIVAC technician, that was pretty cool
UNIVAC is a year older than I am, and nerds were NEVER considered "cool" until normal people started using PCs.
Glory? Whats that? (Score:2, Informative)
maybe not glory, but still lots of fun to be had (Score:2)
Depending on what the submitter means by "IT", there is still fun to be had.
I've been doing linux kernel customization and support for the past ten years. There's still lots of shiny stuff going on, to the point where it's basically impossible to keep up with everything.
On the other hand, if by IT you mean basic infrastructure support for corporate operations, that may be a different story.
new vs old (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was new, everything seemed new and shiny.
Now that I'm old, everything seems old and dull.
Much less glorious (Score:2)
IT is more akin to a boring ubiquitous commodity than a gee-whiz technological marvel.
These days we're more like car mechanics and plumbers than 'gurus'.
short answer: yes (Score:2)
The cool factor has lessend (Score:4, Insightful)
I started programming and repairing computers in the 70s. There was a certain coolness to knowing things that other people didn't know, almost as if you possessed magical powers. Modems? BBSs? Networking? A printer? You can recover a file off my floppy disk? YOU ARE A GOD, SIR, and you just saved my ass.
No longer. Everybody knows this stuff, or at least they pretend to know it, enough to be dangerous. Or else it's been supplanted. E.g. nobody cares that I wired my house for gigabit Ethernet; they just want to know how to jump on my WiFi access point. 802.11b/g/n/w/t/f is really not important. Need to recover a file? Oh yeah, Norton came with my computer.
It's like the photography industry, which barely resembles the industry of 20 years ago because everyone has a fancy digital camera now and can take better pics than they could back then. Or you can hop on iStockPhoto.com or sxc.hu and get cheap/free stock photos that used to be really expensive. Or the graphic design industry: now every "hack with a Mac" (or a PC) can "do" graphic design, no special skills required.
The trick is to be so good at problem solving (or camera angles/lighting/composing, or graphic style) that people still recognize you as a wizard. I mean in the I.T. repair sense, not the 6d+3 sense. This requires creativity, and not everybody has that. If you don't, but you need that feeling of recognition, then you need to either play a lot more WoW or find a new field/niche.
Re:The cool factor has lessend (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd actually take your theory further, to just about any industry that involves creating stuff. One of the realities of life is that just about anything worth doing requires a lot of work. And a lot of that work is dull and repetitive. For every creative superstar, there's usually a small army of grunts doing a whole bunch of groundwork.
For every gravity-defying glass and titanium museum that an architect dreams up, there's a bunch of people sitting at a computer drawing lines all day. Someone does hundreds of calculations to make sure it doesn't fall down. Someone has to pick out all the doorknobs. Someone has to sand all the gyp board walls. Despite all the heavy machinery available, a bunch of guys get stuck digging holes with shovels and then dumping buckets of concrete into them.
Until you nerds start building some awesome robots, the majority of the human race is going to be stuck doing menial tasks instead of creative work, if for no other reason than it has to be done by someone.
Of course it has (Score:3, Insightful)
Now that users can do almost anything (simple) on a computer or even their phone, they now expect that anything they can imagine (vaguely, inarticulately, even impossibly) should be easy to do.
Unless you're at one of the rare shops that's well funded and not directly dealing with users, you will likely be in a no-win position.
Deliver a flawless system and you go unnoticed. Instead, you get asked "can it do this ?"
Or worse and most likely, you step into a position with an existing product that you have to continue development of. It will be behind schedule, over budget, and a complete architectural disaster. What's more, it won't match what the users need because nobody bothered to dig deeply to find out what the users really needed (as opposed to what they initially said they wanted - there's a huge difference).
Am I bitter, yes. I'd rather be a lawyer. At least then I'd still be getting rich doing crap work.
What glory? (Score:2)
People DON'T associate glory with things like having 2 routers able to ping each other or displaying some graphics on a computer screen.
Glory (Score:2)
CU, Martin
It was fun until... (Score:5, Insightful)
It was fun until...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Glory? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure about the glory but the fun of working in IT is getting pretty rare. There are too darned many pointy hair bosses who think they've got high-powered technical chops because they read (and partially understood) a few articles in an in-flight magazine who then get back into the office and turn things upside down for no apparent reason.
It really has. (Score:5, Funny)
I've been hard-working member of an IT staff for a while now, and I do sometime feel as though all the glory has been sucked out of a "glory hole" of some sort.
We really should have a staff meeting about it. Firm action is clearly needed.
money (Score:4, Insightful)
We make two to four times as much money as the average American. That's enough to ensure that IT remains a respected and desirable career.
The brief bubble period where we made millions in fake stock options was an anomaly. It was not "normal." Our careers were never really glorious, but they will remain prestigious, like those of scientists, engineers, and other skilled, well-paid professionals.
Glory in IT? (Score:3, Interesting)
Give us some context regarding this "glory" that you perceive as having "gone out of IT". While I know that, prior to the dot-com bubble burst, everyone and his brother was going into IT, it's not as if (those silly Intel commercials notwithstanding) people were looking on IT folks with awe, or that most women were fighting to be with us or anything like that.
Or, given your mention of "new shiny[s]" - perhaps what you're missing are the days when a sysadmin had unquestioned control of his domain, ran it as he pleased and didn't have to answer to any higher-ups? Those days are long gone, and are not coming back (and, frankly, let me be the first to say "good riddance").
No. (Score:5, Insightful)
The glory is making something that people *want* to use, or it really honestly makes their life better, and they know it. I've done mostly back-end stuff throughout my career but I have seen email comments from users who have praised the system for making such-and-such job easier, or figuring out this big thing, or saving a lot of time, etc., and I can feel good that I had a hand in that, or I implemented that, etc.
My kids like playing with the apps on the iPhone, especially music making and drawing pictures. I can't say how many times I've been handed the phone with a picture and my daughter beaming and going "I made that!!", with obvious joy on her face. That made me happy, and I'd think the author of the program would be happy to know how much joy s/he brought.
That's glory right there. If you can make someone happy with what you do, honestly and truly, then it makes the TPS reports, status meetings, weekends and late night worth it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've done mostly back-end stuff throughout my career but I have seen email comments from users who have praised the system for making such-and-such job easier, or figuring out this big thing, or saving a lot of time, etc., and I can feel good that I had a hand in that, or I implemented that, etc.
Sure your email system is hot stuff, but stop browsing your user's inboxes!!
I kid. Well a little. Seriously, knock it off.
Is IT the new blue-collar? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. They view IT as a cost-centre. Run, don't walk away from companies that view their IT centres as something to be outsourced.
2. They view IT as a necessary evil and spend only as much as necessary to keep their employees from throwing their monitors out the window. These kinds of companies understand IT is a necessary, but they don't like spending money on it. They tend to upgrade software that are SEVERAL versions behind, and your typical office PC is 4-7 years old. No shiny here - IT is dull and so is working here in that role.
3. They view IT as a way to save money. Innovative and highly adaptable companies that change with their operating environment usually view IT as a way to improve on efficiencies, and use it to reduce costs and improve services internally and externally. These are good companies that view IT as shiny and always something to invest in. These companies also tend to be around a long time, or they always seem to make money even when times are bad. It takes money to invest in IT - badly managed companies don't have money to spend on it. These companies, from an IT and a learning perspective, are preferred. More often than nought, they also tend to dabble in Open Source - never a bad thing.
So, when doing an interview at a company, ask the following questions:
1. How old 'typically' are the computers in your office?
2. What version of Microsoft and Office are you using?
3. Does your organization view IT as a cost center or as value-added infrastructure?
Measure these against points 1-3 for their shiny score.
Glory is in the eye of those at IT's mercy (Score:3, Interesting)
Glory my anus! (Score:4, Insightful)
Dumbest Slashdot story ever (Score:3, Interesting)
NUMBER ONE: If anything, the pace of "new shinies" has INCREASED over the past decade. When I started out in the dot-com era, there was primarily C/C++ or Java if you were doing backend work... and Java, Perl, or ASP's if you were doing web development. The basic concept of building a web app with an MVC design was a "new shiny". There was no Github or even Sourceforge yet. Today there's a new framework or language or awesome end-user app to play with every time you turn around.
When the anonymous blogger in the original post remembers I.T. as "the place to be", he no doubt means that in financial or marketing terms. That is, we all thought we were going to be stock-option millionaires... and with the exception of some Googlers, that delusion of the industry has been dead for almost a decade now. I.T. is not the insane gold rush that it was 10-20 years ago, but relatively speaking it's still the best paycheck you're likely to get while still being free to fuck off on Slashdot half the day.
NUMBER TWO: There is NOT a "more pervasive technical culture" today. Having an Facebook account does not make you a web-developer, and having an iPhone doesn't make you a sysadmin. There is common perception among middle-aged and elderly people, that the younger generations are brighter or "more technical" because they carry lots of electronic gadgets and spend lots of time on social networking sites. The opposite is probably true... if anything they make people dumber. Regardless, while the number of consumer toys has grown exponentially... I would submit that percentage of society with any real technical interest or aptitude has remained constant.
Glory? (Score:3, Interesting)
When was there ever any glory?
Getting screamed at by some fake-and-bake guy because his laptop doesn't work all the while bitching and yelling that "I make the fucking money here cube monkey! Fix my shit!" or lecturing us on "If you people actually made some fucking money they might send you on a golf weekend once in a while. Wait do you computer geeks even know how to golf?" Gee thank you "will not be named marketing company once located in Plymouth MN" for that experience... No wonder you went under and have 3 of your executives in jail now...
How about the executive that needs you to scrub his PDA to make sure the wife can't figure out he's banging Stephanie in payroll all the while chatting how worthless the black hole of IT is. "Do you people do anything besides spend our money?" Gee thanks I loved spending 3 weeks with Faire Issac getting your data feeds set up so you can actually get mailer out to all your potential customers before first quarter. And you assholes still had the balls, after I worked 3 days straight sleeping in a server room, to gloat on how "if you could get your job done right you could have come golfing with us." We've been shit on as an industry from day one. What Glory? And does everyone in a suit fucking golf?
Then there was 3 years with Lady Macbeth out in Burnsville who was so brutal and wicked I can't evne put into print what he issues were... all the while complaining that a staff of 8 could only field 3200 calls a day... Simple math:
60 minutes in an hour. 8 hours = 480 total minutes
480 * 8 = 3840 total minutes.
3840 /3200 = 1.2 minutes a call...
NOT FAST ENOUGH! WTF? ARE YOU BRAIN DEAD WOMAN?! Asking someone their name takes at least 20 seconds... Whatever... not that I am bitter... people complain they can't get help but then you bitch that you aren't "helping them fast enough" ... ARRRrggg... Oh well not my problem, she was more then capable of driving a 40 million a year company into a 4 million a year company before the competition bought them out and threw her 6 figure fat ass out the door...
And after all that still having to put in the 60 hour a week grind in a server room, coding everything, administering everything, and being told by your boss that "You need to foot the bill for all these certifications, why should we pay you to help you keep your job?" MCSE, CCNA, CCIE, CNA, etc... I remember in 2000 I had to shell out $12,000 in a year of my money to "keep my job."
The sickest thing is, in all those years, because of the nature of our work, we IT people see all of the company. No insulation. The corruption at the top all the way to the bottom. If Jeff is surfing pr0n in the warehouse or Mr. Big is surfing kiddie p0rn in his masion, IT sees it all and suffer it all too. From the top AND the bottom. It makes you not like people in general. I have 0 faith in any human walking Earth now as a result.
I remember at one employer just running a simple
DIR /S *.MPG /S *.AVI
DIR
against the personal drives due to disk space running out.
The sheer volume of pr0n was staggering. The executives were furious. They wanted blood. I was in the conference room when they demanded to know who the top offenders were. They were going to make examples of them. I was fired on the spot when I named the top 5 offender... all sitting in the room.
Glory my ass. Never was any, never will be any.
Blissfully retired and anyone dumb enough to go into that field, good luck. If you want to see the worst in humanity, IT\MIS is the field to be in. I'd rather work with prison inmates then go back to that, I take honest evil over hypocritical evil any day... Glory? How about IT Shell Shock Syndrome...
Not glory (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know whether there was ever glory in working in the computer field--but there used to be joy, and it's a lot harder to come by these days, at least in my experience.
I didn't know that IT was glorious. (Score:4, Interesting)
You are always in the background of any project. It's assumed you can do whatever it is they want you to do, even if it has never been done before. They will want it 6 weeks earlier than you can deliver it and 50% cheaper than you can buy it for. You are supposed to be invisible. No one thinks about how much work you have to put in to something in order to keep it up and running in a production environment. If the service fails at 3 am on a Sunday, every minute of your time will be tracked until the service is restored and you will be told how efficient you aren't and what you should try to do better next time. When the kudos are given at the next company meeting and everyone talks about all of the great things they have accomplished this year, your name is never mentioned unless you count the "Oh, and thanks to IT who.. does what they do!" mention from the CEO.
You're the plumber. You're the TV Repair man. You're the phone guy. They only know your name when something has gone wrong and they think you can fix it. They only think you can fix it because they are fairly sure you, or someone like you, broke it to begin with.
Welcome to I.T.
Re:I didn't know that IT was glorious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I'd like to be treated like the plumber. Nobody thinks the plumber broke their pipes (well, not unless he installed them in the first place), but they do know that he's the one who can fix them. And they know that if they try and be a cheapskate and not pay him his full rate, or if they stand there haranguing him about how bad a job he's doing, he'll pack up his toolkit and wave good-bye, leaving them standing there ankle-deep in... stuff they'd rather not think about, and their only option will be to call another plumber who'll have just as little tolerance for their games as the first one. Because the plumber knows that, no matter how important you think you are, there's always somebody else with a stopped-up sink who won't be such a pain.
That and both the customer and the plumber know that if the customer takes the plumber into court and complains about how the plumber didn't tell him he shouldn't dump tons of cut hair and congealed grease and crud down the drain and the plumber should've done something to keep that from causing a clog, the judge will fall out of his chair lauging, then dismiss the case with prejudice. And probably order the customer to pay the plumber's legal bills too, just to teach them not to file frivolous complaints.
Re:Geekdom fini (Score:5, Insightful)
This is somewhat true, though it seems to me that much of the "problem" with IT these days stems from the continued inability for non-technical colleagues and management to understand exactly what the purpose of IT is.
It used to be that IT was much less micromanaged. "They do that computer stuff, and it seems to work most of the time, and when it isn't working we lose money, so it's good they keep it working." Now-a-days with folks being so metric-obsessed, it's harder to "just do your job". You gotta make sure to keep up with all your tickets, make extra tickets for everything from someone stopping by your desk, to peeing, so that the metric-OCDs can account for everything you do.
There's still some places where tech people can be tech people, but with a lot of companies going through the (seemingly) perpetual cycle of: "Our IT doesn't work, get us a dedicated IT staff" to "Man, those IT folks look overworked, they must be hard workers!" to (after the systems have been fixed and streamlined) "Those IT people never seem to be doing anything, let's lay them off and save some money" and back to "our IT doesn't work..." it can be hard to find a position where you *can* be a technology person without having to watch your back all the time.
Though (to continue the rant), I will agree that, in general, technology is in a bit of a boring slump, where "advances" are often simply marketing re-definitions of existing technology that's been "suped up". It's not like the late-80's through the 90's where interesting things were happening all around and there was always something neat coming out. These days tech is about evolution not revolution.
Also keep in mind, though, that the longer you're in IT, the more things will seem "old hat" to you. I think this is what the OP (and I) seem to be experiencing these days.
Re: (Score:3)
H1B workers are a minor factor at best. By most counts, there are somewhere between 5 and 6 million U.S. high-tech jobs. The H1B visa quota ranges from 65,000 to 195,000 or so, or about 3% of that at most.
I'm a developer not an IT guy but (Score:3, Informative)
I understand what you're saying, but I've always had sympathy for IT people in a technical company. I'm glad that you appreciate them, but I think you underestimate their contribution and knowledge. Yes, your PhDs are probably smarter than your IT folks but that doesn't mean they know how to keep computers and networks running smoothly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
These days, people's health seems to be considered more important than anything, so glory = saving lives?
glory job = Surgeon? paramedic?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Interestingly enough, not all businesses have a network, in fact the vast majority of businesses still don't have a network. Many are just 1 to 20 person companies, I agree, but they form the bulk of the working population. They don't have networks because either the business doesn't justify it (which is often hard to believe) or they can't afford to get someone in to do it for them. Ma & Pa are not calling in IBM. They need John & Jane. They need the personal touch. These little companies often hav