Easing the Job of Family Tech Support? 932
DarkDevil writes "Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users. I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch. Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat, which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it. 4-8 months later, it happens again. Recently, I found ~380 instances of malware and 6 viruses. I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it. My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format? The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers."
Give Up (Score:3, Interesting)
People use something they don't understand...Or just don't want to know how to...
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Funny)
(No, I couldn't find a link to that PA comic. Somebody else will have to do that.)
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Insightful)
My usual approach is in the form of an analogy.
"You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"
"You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"
"A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us
to transfer the sum of Twenty Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars ( $20,500,000 ) into his / her account.This fund resulted by way
of gratification from a contract awarded by us under the budget allocation to my Ministry and this bill has been approved for payment by
the concerned Ministries.' Do you give them your bank account number?"
Etc.
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Insightful)
Reasonable and useful analogies. However ...
"You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"
In a GUI centric world, the average user doesn't understand the source or meaning of error messages, warnings, or confirmation dialogs. They're just another window that pops up on what they believe to be an "appliance". It isn't the window they're interested in, and not knowing what to do with it, they just want it to go away.
"You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"
A package in the mail has all it's shipping information clearly printed on the outside. With email, the information is in the headers, most all of which are routinely hidden (what is visible is often useless or suspect). The average user has no idea headers exist, and will reject any prodding that they learn how to read them, replying that they clutter up their screen (like viewing file extensions).
Moreover, they certainly don't want to know about MIME structures. Attachments? If it's like a package in the mail, how to know what it is if you don't open it?
"A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of ... Do you give them your bank account number?"
An example that's more "real world" to the average user. Regrettably, in the real world, people (especially older folks) do fall prey to scams or otherwise obvious fraud.
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Interesting)
"A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of ... Do you give them your bank account number?"
An example that's more "real world" to the average user. Regrettably, in the real world, people (especially older folks) do fall prey to scams or otherwise obvious fraud.
No kidding. I still shudder when I remember what happened years ago to my aunt, who is over 70. I came to her house to visit and found a man in his 30s sitting in the living room drinking coffee. My aunt says "you remember so-and-so, I met him on the way to the grocery store and asked him in. Fancy that, he's now an antiques dealer and may be interested in buying some of my stuff." Well, this was NOT who she thought it was. It was a total stranger who realized she had mistaken him for somebody else and decided to take advantage of the situation. Now my aunt is a retired jeweler and "her stuff", some of which was exposed in the coffee table, consists of unique pieces and precious stones that she kept for sentimental reasons.
I didn't want to scare her by exposing the impostor, so I asked to have some coffee too. When she left I told the guy I knew what was going on and if he didn't want me to call the cops immediately he would show me his ID and, as soon as aunt was back, make an excuse and leave. Fortunately he was not a violent criminal, just a lowlife who saw an opportunity to scam an old lady. So he left and aunt never figured out what had happened.
When I read about old people giving thousands of $$ to Nigerian schemers, it reminds me of this story.
Won't work - ask the Bank of Arnerica (Score:4, Interesting)
Read the subject line carefully - "Bank of Arnerica" - it isn't spelled "B a n k [space] o f [space] A m e r i c a" either in the subject or on this line.
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Funny)
And you picked a bad example. Dyslexics tend to be better with computers than the rest of the population. If you're practically illegible when using a pen like I am, you tend to develop fast typing (spellcheckers are pretty cool too).
And dyslexia doesn't stop one's family asking for tech support. Got all but one of them on Linux now though, which helps.
Screw Linux, give them WoW (Score:4, Funny)
My approach, actually, is that if they have time to be surfing for cutesy screensavers on www.i-pwn-u.ru and follow links to www.xploits-r-us.ro and to re-confirm their ebay password 10 times a day, that's the problem: they have time. Forget addressing the symptoms, go for the root problem.
Me? I gave my parents WoW. Sure, it's just about as hard as giving them Linux, so you have to hit them when they're down. It's for their own good. I got mom when she was too sick to do anything else, and she contaminated dad from there. If that fails, mention that she can talk to you on group chat. It's funny what moms are prepared to do for a son as a captive audience :P
Fair warning, it takes some time investment. Be prepared to answer questions like, I swear to FSM I'm not making it up, "HOW DO I SWIM UP?? WHAT CAMERA? I DON'T HAVE A CAMERA TO ROTATE!! NO, I LOOKED IN ALL THE BAGS AND I DON'T HAVE A CAMERA!!! WHERE DO I BUY A CAMERA?" or, again, true to FSM quote, "HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS CAVE?? NO, I DON'T SEE YOU! I CAN ONLY SEE THE TOP OF MY HEAD AND MAYBE 3 FT IN FRONT AND TO THE SIDES!!"
I can see you're dying to ask, "but couldn't I just teach them to use Linux, or heck at least Mozilla in the same time?" Not so fast, grasshopper. This time they'll actually be willing to learn. In the same month you can teach them to play WoW like a pro, or you can be running in circles around "how do I start IE? This paypal password site says I need IE and Javascript" and "why does this taxform.xls.exe attachment not start when I click it???" if you gave them Linux.
Fast forward about a year, and they don't even have time to sleep. No, really, they're only recently up to 5 hours sleep a night. Surf for cutesy IE toolbars and install crap? Good grief, they don't even have time to shop for groceries outside of wednesday mornings. I think they even lost some weight, what with the occasional wednesday when the servers are back on from 5 AM.
Ah, life is good.
'Course, this might cost them a few years off the life expectancy, but it's you or them, really. The hours to support their computers would have probably added up to the same number of years of your own life. Ask yourself this, really: do you want to spend that time supporting them or grinding your own epic gear? Thought so.
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Funny)
All you dyslexic linux worshipers - linux is the work of Santa, not Dog!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Insightful)
True, but 9 times out of ten, it is easier and faster to change the OS than the human's behavior.
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Informative)
Changing their behavior could make their use of Windows safer, but speaking from practical experience every time I have switched a problem user to a Mac (which in some cases I did at my own expense) the support time fell to essentially zero after a short adjustment period. Importantly, this has always happened. Changing the OS fixed the problem without fixing the user.
Theoretically the Mac (and Linux) can have similar malware problems to Windows, and there is proof-of-concept malware out there. Practically, though, it just isn't the case. I suspect that the security model -- which is much better than even Vista/Win7 when you get into the details -- has a lot to do with that. The claims that it's all about market share are wishful thinking; it's about ease of entry. It's very, very easy to subvert Windows ... and very difficult for Microsoft to fix this because a large amount of software depends on the ability to do things that should really not be allowed (like, say, injecting threads into other programs and using VirtualProtect to make code pages writeable -- with those capabilities you will never make a secure system). As long as it's much easier to subvert Windows there's not much point in going after the Mac.
But it goes beyond malware. Certain Windows features, such as the Registry, are hideously overcomplex and unreliable. They should have been tossed years ago -- and since everyone manages registry settings via APIs this could be done with excellent backwards compatibility (consider how easy it was for Apple to switch the format for Prefs in Snow Leopard). When something messes up the registry, all too common in my experience, there is little choice but to burn it down and rebuild from scratch. (Thank God for Acronis or I'd go insane from the reinstalls.)
If you want a system that doesn't require a lot of admin time I have to say that you can pick pretty much anything other than Windows and do well. It will be easier to set up, easier to back up, easier to fix if something goes wrong, and the software will be considerably less expensive (everyone else packages useful software in-the-box).
Of course, there can be overriding concerns that force the use of Windows ... and you take your lumps if that's the case.
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And I'm linux! (Score:5, Funny)
I've noticed that humans are illogical, Captain. They won't take the time to learn something that's free and can save them money, but they'll take the time to learn something that they spent money on and will continue to cost them money. Even tribbles act more logically.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
As requested, here it is: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/07/ [penny-arcade.com]
Now brought to you with the absolute latest in hyperlink technology!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/07 [penny-arcade.com]
It's click-licious!!
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Re:Give Up (Score:4, Interesting)
I live six states away from my nearest blood relative. Of course, that didn't stop my sister (who lives on the other frickin' coast of the continent) from calling me up, asking me to help her troubleshoot an issue with qmail on one of her webservers (she owns a small webservice company).
She was mildly miffed when her company got invoiced at the 'family rate' ($75/hr) - but at least haven't had any further requests for pro-level help since. :)
Get a Mac (Score:4, Insightful)
No I'm not trying to be smug. I simply refuse to maintain windows computers. Linux is not an option for most people. Ergo, a mac. Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too. I'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect. But the very problem raised here is solved by a mac. So why fart around. Is your time worth nothing? if not these folks can cough up $599 for a mac mini. You don't have to use a mac, cause you are not the one with the problem. But they do.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I actually have to agree, although I'd argue part the issue is that the person asking the question doesn't have a massively high level of technical competence if it takes them so long to solve these sorts of problem which compounds the issue.
I had the same problem with my Dad, and although it didn't take long to fix each time, it was annoying because having spent all day fixing stupid IT problems back then at work, the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was exactly the same thing.
The real solution is
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.
That's the key. ,when it took them that long to learn how to use the damn current one?
People will talk about locking down the computer, or making them use linux or a thin client, or whatever. But it is too late. Do you honestly think you can convince your parents to use a different system
My dad was smart and bought his mother something along the lines of a dumb terminal. It goes on the web, and checks email, and that is it (It might even be running linux!). But his case was easy, this was her first comp
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, the wonderful thing about family is that you can tell them to "sod off" and quit.
There are a few points that, for my sanity, I made my more recalcitrant relatives understand:
That said, you don't need to "convince" them to move to something different. As you said, that's generally not possible
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help. If you are at least a halfway decent person, chances are you got that way because your parents didn't give up on you when you needed help and education. Time to pay back the favor. I'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things, but will not fix them. My suggestions:
Be prepared.
When re-imaging a system:
Doing all that will take a lot of time, but can mostly run without a babysitter.
If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile, you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in. Start with a known-good OS image, create a VM from it, clone the VM, and let them run the clone. Erase the clone when it gets buggy, re-clone the original, patch it, and off they go again.
(1) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment. If there is a network available with more than one computer attached, I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that. Otherwise, I'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed. Or you can get a USB key and back up to that, although that won't give you much room for incremental backups. Or back up to DVD+R, although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of Slashdot to type "MAC" and not mean it as a borderline-illiterate abbreviation for "Macintosh". Excellent work.
MS SteadyState (Score:5, Informative)
Try MS SteadyState
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
You know? It's pretty damned sad that OS stability and security has to be offered as a separate frickin' package to the OS itself.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
Of the two options, I like the unbundled, doesn't bloat my OS further, option.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason it's like that is because developers are too lazy to test with a regular user account.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No. Try Ubuntu.
Well, that is true, as long as they just want things Ubuntu does out of the box. For virus resistance, Linux rocks. I've had a hell of a time getting other features figured out with linux though.
I spent nearly every night of a two week span trying to get audio working properly on my HTPC setup (well, the first few days was video) with Ubuntu 9.04, and finally gave up.
Installed Windows 7, and it worked right away, I kid you not.
I am DAMN good with computers, and that all just baffled me. I seriously lost HOU
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
"You're the shithead that broke it. You fix it, or you pay Best Buy to fix it, or you pay me to fix it. Those are your choices."
As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.
I'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
My solution to reinstalls: Do it once, then use Partimage Is Not Ghost [windowsdream.com] to create an image. Then re-image in 10 minutes when needed.
here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Same here. Please mod parent up. Its the damn truth!
Unsure what all the hating of Apple hardware is on /. lately.
Solid Unix based OS that your parents would never know about. Google developers use them.
It's actually not about being hip. It's about getting work done.
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Funny)
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Funny)
I had to sell my black turtleneck sweater to pay for my Mac. Oh the irony!
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Even if you don't like, macs, get them a mac anyway. Regardless of how well windows or linux or whatnot works for you, you're not buying it for you so quit making the choice on what works for you and not for them. Recommend something that will be easy for them to use without frustrations, as unbreakable as possible, and require as little maintenance as possible. Never forget who will be using the computer, and that it either (1) needs to be maintenance free, (2) they need to be able to maintain it - real
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's true, in spades. (Score:3, Insightful)
My mom switched to Mac. Result: I only have to really do something semi-serious (i.e. more than 30 mins work) once every 2 years. My (mentally handicapped!) brother uses a Mac. Aside from an occasional correction of his mail settings via ARD Admin I'm hassle-free.
My brother and his g/f still use Windows. I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed. I told them it was the last time and I wo
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, we will hear that... BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. Not ONE serious widespread virus in the wild IN THE EIGHT+ YEAR HISTORY of the operating system. The only reason I have to qualify that statement AT ALL is because yes, there are a couple trojans. But NOTHING like Windows. There are NOT a million drive-by downloads, self-spreading worms, or a bunch of malware-infested crappy freeware apps like Windows has.
Is it because it's a better OS? Smaller market share? Lazy virus writers that's can't be bothered to learn to
Install Ubuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Install Ubuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
... and if it has to be Windows for some strange reason. Give them Limited User accounts. You'll be the sole Admin (and you won't use it yourself... just User for day to day tasks) and because of that you'll have to approve or disapprove all software that has to be installed.
I have this modus operandi with my family and it works very well. Technically, you have to see a family as a small business operation where you are the IT guy.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Technical solutions always fail when applied to a Social problem. That problem lies directly with the people themselves and their attitudes. They see any changes *THEY* have to make as a failure on *YOUR* part. You just can't explain why Windows sucks so much and why they should expend the effort to change to a better operating system. Try explaining that to an executive. They mad the decision to use Windows. It is your job to make it happen regardless of the consequences and how much work it is on you
Re:Install Ubuntu (Score:5, Interesting)
no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.
In the same situation, let me relate my story: Over at my parents' for the WE almost a year ago I had yet again to reinstall the whole shebang after a hardware improvement was 'refused' by XP. After a day and a half installing XP, downloading SPs and updates, downloading all apps, configuring them, etc, it crashed during the XP3 install. Wouldn't boot. I had 2 hours left.
As an experiment and a last minute move, I installed Kubuntu. 10 minutes for the install, 20 minutes to configure custom icons on the desktop links to firefox, kmail, dolphin, Xsane and a SD card image transfer script. I didn't even show them the result, just as an experiment. And I left. They called only once after 2 weeks: "Yeah it works fine, but we don't have skype anymore", which I promptly remotely installed. I consider this experiment a great success.
On the other hand, in order to escape Linux, my sister bought a Mac.
Buy them a Mac (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously. I had similar issues and now have both my parents converted over to being happy Apple users. My support time has dropped to a truly negligible amount, and they're happier as well. It may sound facetious, but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.
Re:Buy them a Mac (Score:5, Informative)
I completely agree. I did the exact same thing.
The most beautiful part? When I was convincing them to pick up a Mini to replace their dying PC, my dad's first question was (I kid you not): "But will it run Firefox and OpenOffice?"
I almost cried.
And if I do need to give them support? 99% of the time I can just have them fire up iChat and share their desktop with me. Quick and easy for them, and doesn't require messing with opening ports in any firewalls or NATs.
Buy a Mac and Time Capsule (Score:4, Informative)
How much is your time worth, in any unit you care to name? If the answer is any amount greater than zero, then convincing friends and family to buy a Mac helps so, so much... I have several people I used to help all the time, and now I get a question maybe once a year. Not to mention that any frustration you are saving yourself, you are triply saving your friends and family who try to figure things out before they call you.
But I would add in addition to this advice, to buy a TimeCapsule for them as well. Yes it's a little more expensive than an access point and external disk combined. But refer back to my first point, the bit about time and so on? If they have a TimeCapsule set up they WILL USE IT, because it is on ALL THE TIME. If you try to make anyone connect an external drive they WILL NOT DO IT, and that means WHEN a drive failure occurs you will have to come help try and recover data. If the have a Time Capsule they can bring the system and TC into an Apple store and get the data back even if they can't figure out how themselves (which they probably will figure out).
Related question (Score:5, Insightful)
I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months. Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?
Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate. Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.
Re:Related question (Score:4, Funny)
after 6 months you may not be looking at it at all.
An interesting resource (Score:3, Informative)
Correct User Access (Score:5, Insightful)
I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Mod parent up; this is the only way to do this. I give my family a basic user account, and then furthermore go through their registry and then deny all write permissions to the "Run" sections of the registry so nothing can install itself in their user account. If absolutely necessary, give them an admin account to be used only for installing things (I gave it to my little brother and not my mom and this arrangement worked quite well).
Re:Correct User Access (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you give a brief overview of how to remove write access to particular parts of the registry on a per-user (or per-group) basis?
I'm typing this on Vista Business; XP Home and Vista Home Premium might not have these same features.
To lock down a part of the registry:
Group Policy is also a great tool - gpedit.msc is powerful. If you're running a gimped version (XP Home/Vista Home Premium) most of its options can be directly set in the registry with some Googling.
Re:Correct User Access (Score:4, Informative)
I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.
Absolutely, I did this for my brother's machine, compared to my parents machine it's remained extremely tidy and worry free!
The only issue is Firefox updating. On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account. (Bugzilla:407875 [mozilla.org]) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..
Makes me wonder if Internet Explorer would actually be safer for him, at least it would get updated automatically.
The butterfly Parable (Score:5, Insightful)
An insight into Mentoring & coaching
One day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared stuck.
The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon. The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings. The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions. But nothing changed.
The butterfly stayed the same. It was never able to fly. In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.
Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind, in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.
When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.
Re:The butterfly Parable (Score:5, Funny)
So you're saying that the next time Mom asks for tech support, he should bind her up in duct tape, leaving a little hole and saying "fight your way out Mom! It will do you good!"
While amusing, I don't think that would really solve her or his problems.
Re:The butterfly Parable (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, don't leave us hanging...
So what happened to the butterfly? Was it like Forest Gump and it went on to meet presidents and stuff?
Re:The butterfly Parable (Score:4, Informative)
It has nothing to do with evolution. Plant tissues that experience pressures (say from bending in the wind) release hormones that make the tissue stronger, to better withstand that pressure.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this "informative"? Unless you are a creationist or subscribe to the wholly un-scientific "intelligent design theory", there is no explanation other than evolution for a plant's having developed the remarkable ability to trigger a re-engineering of it's structure through a chemical feedback loop.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It has nothing to do with evolution. Plant tissues that experience pressures (say from bending in the wind) release hormones that make the tissue stronger, to better withstand that pressure.
Well, it has something to do with evolution. Plants that can create and use this hormone would tend to more often live to maturity, compared to competing plants lacking it. That would make them more likely to produce offspring.
Only every 8 months? Lucky. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing. I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate. Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed. That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person (my wife's 92 year old grandmother) is about to get a Mac mini.
I can't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account? Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself.
Re:Only every 8 months? Lucky. (Score:5, Funny)
And before anyone starts bleating "but Macs can have problems too..." I'll tell you what I tell my family now when they call me with problems: "So what? I don't support Macs."
You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand. It's a hard mental block. I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn". I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials. It's not the information or how it is presented. It's a mental block about learning new things.
"Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation. And that's that.
What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important". The irony is lost on them. Completely.
The war you are facing is a cultural one, not a technical, or information/communication one. It's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot. Best of luck.
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".
Proper response: If you can't learn, I can't help. Sorry.
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Funny)
I agree. My long-time girlfriend is a veterinarian and always makes fun of my career choice when I am "on-call" or have an "emergency."
Obviously her on-calls, and emergencies deal with life-or-death situation (of animals...) and mine deals with thousands, and possible hundreds of thousands ($$) in lost productivity, revenue, etc.
Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important. One of our good friends is a doctor and uses the "save lives vs. save useless lives" argument with her...funny actually. The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.
Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.
It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
PROTIP: If your girlfriend ridicules your career/life choice, she's not marriage material.
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Funny)
Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.
So how comfortable is that couch?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like you both enjoy poking fun at each other and bickering about inconsequential things. Assuming this doesn't rise to the level of genuine arguments (like couch guy below) I say it sounds like a normal and healthy relationship. Just thought you might appreciate the thought after all the other comments soon to follow.
(5 year wedding anniversary 2 weeks ago, goin' on 9 years together, bicker like it's been 80)
You have the control, so use it! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It sounds like you have all the control here, so simply lock down those computers. Install a decent anti-virus, firewall, and script blockers. Install a decent web browser and delete the IE icon on the desktop. Ensure all these and the OS are able to update themselves automatically. Install the programs your family uses. Then create a non-admin account for them and do not give them the admin password. That's what I've been doing and the only problems I've had to deal with in the last few years were a hard drive crash and some minor issues. If they need to install a new program or need the admin password for any reason, they have to go through me to get it done.
Inevitably, something else bad will happen (an unrecognized virus will get through), and you'll have to re-install the system. So, once everything has been set up, including installing all of the tools mentioned above, then, checkpoint the system to an external drive that's physically compatible with the primary disk in the system. Next time things crap out, copy the disk image back.
Also, keep the system in one disk / partition, and user data on another. When you have to restore the system, it's easier t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Make them pay (Score:4, Insightful)
There is probably one major offender, and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There's "helping", and then there's enabling. For example, I need to deal with a reformat/re-install about once a year for my mother. No biggy: she does pretty well, but just can't keep up with new threats, and simply isn't perfect. That's what family is for.
On the other hand, I refuse to help one
The last time I had this problem... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The last time I had this problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait... so, you installed Ubuntu for someone and left them to use it with no discussion. It would appear that you never let him see it boot before handing it over, and never discussed the differences. And, as you say, he refused to use it.
I assume this level of casual computer fixing is reserved for family members, yet you say he took you to court. If your family are taking you to court, I think you have other things to worry about than the computers. If he wasn't a family member, why the hell were you fixing it for free and/or not discussing/explaining the solution?
It isn't a favor unless someone asks for it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it.
It doesn't matter if it's friend, family or client.
It doesn't matter if your are working for a cold beer and a plate of pretzels or charging twice the going rate for your "professional services."
You never make fundamental changes without asking.
Without informed consent.
If I ask you to secure and return my Windows system -
I expect you to secure and return my Windows system - not to replace it with whatever Linux distro and Open
Oblig. XKCD (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Oblig. XKCD (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Get a Mac (Score:5, Insightful)
I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago & have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then. Two of those were upgrading the RAM & two more were upgrading OSX.
I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up. I had no problems setting it up & she has had no problems using or maintaining it.
Re:Get a Mac (Score:5, Interesting)
This. My 60-year-old father can tell the make and model of any car manufactured before the catalytic converter, just by hearing the sound of an engine. As a career veterinarian with 30+ years of experience and an interest in staying abreast, he is intimately familiar with the latest in small animal medicine. But when it comes to anything with transistors, he knows only the basics. He's always found them frustrating and irritating, and only started using email about 6 years ago when forced into it by an extended vacation my mother took alone. He only got a cell phone 2 years ago. I used to spend hours each month helping him maintain his slow-because-he-bought-a-P4-with-SDRAM Windows computer.
After being fed up with years of parental support, I convinced him with much prodding this past spring that instead of an HP, he should spend a bit more to buy a refurbished aluminum iMac with a full extended warranty and a Time Capsule. I was done with limited Windows profiles, spyware,Firefox with IE skins and changed icons, and all the rest. The Mac was a great decision. He's in love with it, and my Mom is now plotting her own mac purchase.
I spent the largest part of the two hours of setup copying files via thumb drive, configuring his Safari Top Sites page, and getting Skype turned on so he can talk to my brother in Italy. Haven't really thought about it since, but after years as a reluctant computer user, he's blossomed with the Mac. The iPod he never used to use is suddenly full of podcasts and music, and we'll talk about the Writer's Almanac show a couple of times a week. His digital camera no longer stores all of his photos for viewing on the little screen, and he doesn't go to Walgreen's to get help make prints anymore. - instead, they're in iPhoto with face tags, organized into events, and he uses his own inkjet with photo paper now. He never has to futz with the mic or camera when he's doing a video call with my siblings. He's an avid skier, so we put the snow reports for his season ticket resorts on his Dashboard, as well as the weather reports and clocks for various places around the world where we have family.
This is turning into a Mac ad, and I didn't mean that. Clearly all of these things can be done with Windows/Linux. My point is that the right combination of technology, in my case an iMac, managed to excite my father into an interest in my own passions, while simultaneously opening up all the really cool parts of the internet to him. And in the process, I no longer have to do any tech support for him. I don't have to worry about backups, I don't have to worry about viruses, I don't have to worry about email attachments, I don't have to worry about "How do I..." phone calls.
Instead, we have more things to talk about, and he's able to finally use these fantastic tools from which I've made my career. So: if the technology your family is using doesn't work for them, whether they're currently on Apple, Linux, or Microsoft OS's, try a different one. It's made all the difference for me.
Caveat: I really can't recommend buying a computer without a user-serviceable hard disk unless you also buy the extended warranty. Apple wants $450 to replace the 320GB hard disk on an out-of-warranty iMac with another 320GB. I found out the hard way on my own iMac. To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen. Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over. This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.
Lock it down (Score:4, Insightful)
Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also, but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member. Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints. If the family doesn't want to learn how to avoid viruses they don't want to learn a new operating system.
The 9-year-old is the key (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like it's time to transition your support job to the next generation.
Lessons learned from too many years in that role (Score:4, Insightful)
Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for, typically this is well under $100. It's more work up front on this, but teaching them basic safe browsing, automating what they don't want to deal with and have an image (and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run. I've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way, and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer.
Run windows in a virtual machine on Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
How about running Windows in a virtual machine (e.g. virtualbox.org) in Linux? You just have to configure it so that the VM starts in fullscreen mode automatically.
So, once installed to a state that you know is OK, you can simply make a snapshot image. If need be, it's easy to revert to that snapshot, or any future snapshots.
The only issue is going to be data. Well, you can store that on a separate partition and make daily/weekly backups using cron jobs. Now that 1TB and 1.5TB harddrives are standard, it should be no problem at all to have a liberal backup scheme.
Then, if there's some issue, you can simply SSH into the machine and revert to a working image and the machine will be reset to an acceptable state again.
We've had this discussion around the cooler. (Score:3, Interesting)
I work as a programmer and we have this conversation a lot.
In the last few years I've noticed a serious trend. We're now mostly 35-40 and we are tired of working on home computers.
The solution? Get a mac.
EVERYONE who has one agrees (Don't believe me, ask around). If you want to know, go ask a PC user how he supports his family's computers--the story will generally be like yours, then go ask a mac user how he supports his family's computers--If he's been using one long enough it's going to be by getting them to buy macs, then not having to mess with them any more.
It really is THAT easy. Many mac users that I work with just tell their families that they don't understand the new-fangled windows even though they work with it every day (few programmers are lucky enough to be able to use macs at work).
For yourself--get a mac and install a windows partition for gaming, or if you are into high-performance gaming buy two computers... It's worth it.
By the way, this is from someone who occasionally tried macs before intel and couldn't stand them (and still would not use a pre-intel mac). The dual-core and OSX are essential for usability because the Mac UI tends to be pretty chunky with just one CPU.
I've owned a computer since 1978. I run a Linux server at home, and have 2 windows computers I NEVER turn on at home. I use windows all the time at work. I've built almost every computer I've owned except my 2 macs. I'll probably never buy another non-mac (Might convert the mac mini to a linux server eventually.
It's very sad (Score:4, Interesting)
I find it sad an disturbing that both the OP, and many of the posters, only want to force the family to do one thing or another so he doesn't have to deal with them anymore.
I spent many hours patiently fixing my dad-in-laws computer when he'd managed, somehow, to mess it up again. Didn't bother me much as it gave me a chance to visit with him and mom.
They're both gone now - and I'd give much to hear the phone ring and Dad say "son, I've managed to mess it up again, why don't you come over and fix it, and then we'll have dinner and catch the ball game".
Stop "helping"! (Score:3, Insightful)
For 8 years they have relied upon you to solve their issues and apparently not learned anything! they are "non-technical" but have been using computers this entire time? I'm sorry but after that many years of using the damned thing if they haven't learned anything it's because you're always there to help them - stop helping. The excuse that they're non-technical doesn't fly after that length of time IMO. If they are so disinterested in the device but rely on it so heavily then there's a serious disconnect.
They aren't learning anything because they don't have to. If you always had someone to wipe your ass you probably would never have learned but somewhere along the way your parents decided it was time you did it yourself and TaDah YOU learned. Think of it as AA for computers - they have to hit rock bottom before they will get off their butts and bother to learn anything. A once in awhile help session is one thing but not to the extent that has been laid out here. Do they even bother to sit and watch while you fix their stuff? Or do they get to go off and do other things all the while whining that they want their computer fixed? Make them feel pain, make them sit and watch silently if you work on the computer for them and answer questions if you want. You're being taken advantage of and it;s not helping anyone except maybe you a little as you find out ever more innovative ways to solve their issues.
Here's another thought - stop trying to fix their computer. Simply reformat the thing, patch it, and walk away. Let them have to go through the pain of fixing it up the way they like it - maybe with some ramifications they will begin to get a clue and understand the cause\effect that's going on here....
The way to get around this (Score:3, Informative)
is to make them pay a professional. after a few hundred dollars they will get better.
My family is smart enough not to need this sort of infantile hand holding, but I am to understand some people come from inferior stock.
Hmm, maybe I shouldn't reply to /. posts after role playing a dandy.
Tell them in the virtual world things are turned around. Instead of assuming trust, assume everyone has an angle to get you.
What? (Score:3, Funny)
computer viruses, malware, adware
Viruses? Malware? Adware?
What are those?
Can you explain them to me? Pretend you are explaining them to someone who has no clue what they are.
(I run linux)
Linux + VMware (Score:3, Informative)
My solution is crude and simple:
1. Install Linux at all machines
2. Install VMware
3. Install whichever OS in a virtual machine.
4. Make a backup copy of it in a safe place
5. Let people use the virtual machine, but don't let them use the base OS
6. Make sure that all essential data - documents, whatever - are always on a networked disk
- when they screw up, simply copy from backup. Not perfect, but it is amazing how much hassle it has saved me.
Re:just install linux the next time you reformat (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well I wouldn't want to charge my parents anything, even if I do get calls once a month about computer problems and have to walk them through every single step. Main reason being, what if my parents decided to send a bill my way for room and board and financial help they've given me, it could take me years to pay that off! It's a pretty sweet deal in my opinion.
What you can do is to write a bill, charging a reasonable rate like $60 per started hour including your journey time (if it is not at your home), and at the end give them a 100% rebate. Make sure that they see the real cost. Then take them to the nearest Apple Store. Show the bill to the salesperson and ask "what can we get for three times this amount". Obviously make sure that your bill is high enough to get them a nice suitable Mac.
Re:Reinstall is NEVER required... (Score:4, Informative)
If you think your only option is to re-install the OS, odds are you don't know how to fix the problem and do it in a timely fashion.
So, how do YOU deal with a corrupted registry, chains upon chains of hooked and rehooked system calls, apps without proper uninstallers, bad-neighbor applications that overwrite other apps' dlls, and rootkits? Are you really spending the time to one-at-a-time manually uninstall and replace bad associations with known-good ones?
To me, OS reinstall and repatch is more of a time saving device. Sure, I can spend hours on hours chasing dragons all over the place for hours on end to fix things and keep their precious desktop wallpaper and they could just click that Awesome Cute Videos bookmark and reinstall the same damn malware the very next day. I personally rather set an xml file and leave an unattended install on while catching a movie or otherwise getting on with my life.
I know if family ever got snippety with me about why I reinstall all the time, I'd probably throw the computer back right at them and wish them good luck.