2 Displays and 2 Workspaces With Linux and X? 460
Borov writes "I'm planning to buy a second monitor in near future and I was searching for ways to configure it under Linux. It seems there are two main ways: 1) to have one 'big' desktop, which means I have single workspace — changing virtual desktop switches both monitors or 2) to have separate X sessions for each display — which means I have separate workspaces, but I can't move applications between them. I need something in the middle — a separate workspace for each screen, so that I can have independent virtual desktops on each screen, but still have the ability to move applications between monitors (no need to strech one app across both of them). I've read that some tiling window managers can do this kind of thing, but I'd rather go with 'classical' window managers, like Openbox/Gnome/KDE or similar."
Very good question. (Score:2)
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Re:Very good question. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Very good question. (Score:5, Informative)
yes. probably Awesome WM. There is such a picture on the Awesome homepage (http://awesome.naquadah.org/). It's often advertised as a tiling manager and Julien Danjou seems to have been so upset about that that the 3.4 release now defaults to floating layout on all tags (you can default any tag to tiling or floating, and in the case of multiple monitors, you can have a tilingbehaviour on one monitor, and a floating one on the other monitor, and move windows and applications back and forth).
Awesome is indeed awesome, if you don't mind some manual editing of the lua configuration file.It should fit the OP's requirement nicely. Additionally, it's a blast on netbooks
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Win + w/e to switch focus between screens
Win + tab to cycle through windows
Win + 1-9 to switch between workspaces on active screen
Win + Shift + 1-9 to send active window to workspace of choice
It was a pretty steep learning curve at first since the config is written in haskell, but totally worth it.
You can have floating wind
tiling (Score:2, Informative)
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Ironically, one of the pitches for tiling window managers is that typical window managers don't really manage windows -- that a good tiling manager saves you the effort of having to resize and place all your windows manually. I tried one for a couple months a few years ago and didn't really like it, but I can see the appeal.
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except that they do manage windows. You never manually resize or shift a window a little to see something behind it, for example.
It's stacking window managers that don't do the managing.
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Hell, explain it for people born BEFORE 1970, that made no sense at all.
4 Screens (Score:5, Informative)
I have 4 screen using 2 nvida 9500 cards and KDE.
I have one X session. By not using Xinerama my maximize button is limited to the size of the two screens on one card. I can stretch the window to full size using all 4 screens.
I also use multiple desktops to manage windows.
Right now each screen gets its own window. When I need to look and wide things(log files) I maximize to two screens. For really big things I can stretch the window to all four screens.
Re:4 Screens (Score:5, Informative)
Last I checked, KDE + NVIDIA is the way to go; GNOME doesn't really support multiple monitors in anything but a combined mode.
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Xfce4 + Nvidia also works pretty well, Xfce4 handles multiple desktops with multiple monitors just fine.
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Are you using Compiz? My experience with nVidia + more than TwinView = Compiz fail.
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KDE has it's own compositing manager, it doesn't use Compiz.
gnome is just fine. (Score:2, Informative)
gnome with two screens is just fine. you can maximize on either side and even use the window list say one panel per screen to show what windows are open on each display.
most distros dont even need configuring for dualscreen now.
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I just want to second this. I have two monitors and one desktop stretched over both, but with gnome if you maximize a window it will snap to the edges of just the monitor it's on. You can stretch any window across both monitors, but you don't have to. I also duplicated the top and bottom panels from the 'main' monitor (my left) to the 'secon
Re:gnome is just fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when you go to a virtual desktop? Do all the windows on both screens change? If yes, then you just failed to read the summary.
Just adjust your usage (Score:2)
Google (Score:5, Informative)
30 seconds with Google points me to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpra [wikipedia.org]
xpra or X Persistent Remote Applications is a tool which allows you to run X programs usually on a remote host and then direct their display to your local machine without losing any state. It differs from standard X forwarding in that it allows disconnection and reconnection without disrupting the forwarded application
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmove [wikipedia.org]
xmove is a computer program that allows the movement of X Window System applications between different displays and the persistence of X applications across X server restarts[3]. It solves a problem in the design of X, where an X client (an X application) is tied to the X server (X display) it was started on for its lifetime. Also, if the X server is shut down, the client application is forced to stop running.
Have you investigated any of these before 'asking /.'?
I'd fire up a second X session on your machine - you can run multiple instances of X with a single monitor after all, and try moving apps between your sessions. Get that to work and everything should be (mostly) trivial after you get your new monitor.
Re:Google (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, I should have been less surly, but it would be nice to have seen an I've tried x and y and they won't work because...
That way folk are going to be better able to help.
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I do appreciate the information. I may go try some of those solutions even though I've never myself had the problem in question.
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Mr. Albanach Surly should also mention that both the programs he linked are basically dead, unmaintained relics. One of the wikipedia pages he linked even mentioned this. He did actually read what he linked, right?
The OP has asked a very interesting question though. If you could take something like xmove or Xpra and make an awesome [naquadah.org] window manager aware/compatible, it would be very interesting software indeed.
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Yes but sometimes it devolves into a 9mm vs .45acp debates which never ends.
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Which part of the summary do you believe I missed?
He wants separate x sessions - both of these solutions are designed for such an instance. Most folk would use them on separate machines but I see no indication they won't work on a local box with multiple X sessions running.
He would prefer a classical window manager. He can run whatever window manager he likes - these apps allow the move of an X application from one X server to another.
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Re:Google (Score:5, Informative)
I tried xpra to hold the mail/news/calendar (Kontact) application in KDE, and it crashed after about a day... So I wouldn't recommend it personally, or at least not yet. As for xmove, the xpra FAQ states it has been without maintenance since 1997.
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Those are nice and useful for moving windows between remote and local displays. But they are not really useful for working with multiple monitors.
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But they are not really useful for working with multiple monitors.
They are when you want one monitor to have 9 virtual desktops, and a second monitor to be running 9 completely different virtual desktops, and about the only way you're going to get anything to do that is going to be running a separate X server on each monitor.
Merge this with Synergy+'s recommendation below, and you can do all that with one keyboard and mouse.
Re:Google (Score:5, Informative)
Synergy (Score:4, Funny)
It's designed to share mice/keyboards/buffers across computers, but perhaps you could use it to share across X sessions on the same machine.
http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
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Crap, I can't read. It doesn't let your render apps on other screens, and running 2 x sessions would already let you copy buffers, but not apps either.
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You don't need synergy for that. Xinerama lets you do that natively. What the OP wants to do is be able to move windows between X screens.
neither mirrored nor spanned (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people want mirrored or spanned. What you're looking for lies somewhere in between. The trick being to enable spaces control on individual displays, while still allowing drag between displays.
Good luck, haven't seen it. What you want is sufficiently unusual that there may not be anything that provides it. I suggest looking for someone else that's made their own variation of spaces support themselves, that offers the option to switch spaces per-display, as the odds of finding someone that's hacked an existing spaces to be per-monitor is probably going to be low.
The other route would be to find a different variation on spanning, such that the separate monitors aren't necessarily spanned, but are simply adjacent, and if you try to drag a window, it can't exist partly on one display and partly on the other, but you can still drag a window from one display to the other. That may still allow you individual spaces control perhaps? I think that's the reason you're having problems, is that most spanning allows a window to overlap off one display onto another, so for one display to change space it requires the others to change also. If you look at it that way I think you'll realize what you're initially asking for doesn't make sense. (if the displays are truly spanned (attached) and not simply adjacent)
It's called Zaphod mode (Score:3, Informative)
The latter option mentioned in the summary - each monitor being a distinct X session - is sometimes called Zaphod mode.
I have opted for it myself, but the downside of not being able to drag windows is sometimes a real pain. You can mitigate this to some degree for text programs using screen or dtach. I am interested in trying out xpra, which promises to be like 'screen for x-windows', but I haven't had time yet.
Another issue is that some programs, like Firefox, don't like to run multiple instances. So if
4 monitors - one desktop - here's how (Score:3, Interesting)
I run one big desktop with 12 virtual desktops - then for the applications I want to stay available when I move from one desktop to another I simply right-click on the icon in the upper-left corner (of most windows - Chrome beta doesn't have one for some reason) and select "Always on Visible Workspace" - then it sticks there no matter which workspace I'm on.
Otherwise you could set up the VNC X-server and use VNC-viewer to log back in to the local system and use that window as your second, separate desktop.
Enlightenment (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Enlightenment +1 (Score:4, Informative)
it's really stable, I've not seen a crash or anything for months.
More importantly: I've only ever seen the window manager crash, but it has never brought down X with it. When it crashes, it gives you a very helpful (and ugly) dialog which allows you to restart the window manager. In the 3 years of using e17, I have never had a single application crash or data loss. And the last e17 crash is from 2008, I think.
Oh, and: mod parent up.
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Thanks for the link, I've wanted this ability for a long long time.
My setup (Score:3, Informative)
I use nvidia twinview on the monitors with Gnome. I also have 3 virtual desktops that I access via edge flipping on the vertical axis. I find this workas alot better than arranging the flipping on the sides with 2 large monitors.
Ask Slashdot? (Score:3, Insightful)
xinerama + e17 (Score:2)
Enlightenment e17 handles this brilliantly. Each screen gets its own set of virtual desktops. Switching VTs on one does not change the current VT on the other.
With Xinerama you can drag windows from one screen to the other.
what (Score:2)
why not just put some windows on one screen and some windows on another screen? it doesn't matter if the window manager considers it "one workspace", it'll still be 2 workspaces because they'll be on different physicals screens in real life.
And also, what about other operating systems? (Score:2)
Is it possible to do the same thing in Windows? OSX? Neither relies primarily on an X server, so I can see how it might make things more difficult. I know I would certainly like to be able to use screen zooming separately on the separate monitors (on OSX, which doesn't handle screen zoom very well if you're using dual: it zooms the combined desktop, and depending on settings, re-centers the screen if you perform an action like clicking a link)
Have You Actually Tried It? (Score:4, Informative)
I have had a computer running Linux (Fedora of one flavor or another) with two displays for getting on to be most of a decade. Wouldn't work seriously any other way. I have 12 desktops (one for each Fn key on standard keyboards), which are linked so that both monitors switch at the same time.
If you haven't TRIED this sort of setup yet (and it sounds very much like you have not), then I would encourage you to try it first. What problem are you trying to solve with being able to switch monitors individually? WIndows can be trivially moved between virtual desktops under Linux, and with single keystroke desktop switching (remember those Fn keys?) I find that I rarely, if ever, need to move applications from one desktop to another. To promote efficiency, I have adopted, over the years, a standard pattern of where given windows are. The details are good for me, but not necessarily anyone else, so I won't go through the particulars, but, just as one example, when I want to use a browser, I hit F6, and BOOM, there are two browser windows at full screen. When I need an editor, another single keystroke (F3, if you care), and BOOM, emacs on the left, and, usually, an xterm on the right. Fully maximized. Moving windows around and resizing them is a waste of time and screen area. Twelve desktops maps nicely to the Fn keys -- which, again, is why I have 12, and, again is why switching between applications is 1-keystroke-instantaneous -- and I cannot recall running out of room, ever.
If the reason you want to switch workspaces individually is that you don't have enough flexibility in your workspaces (like you only have four per monitor), then you're solving the wrong problem. Increase the number of workspaces you have. Also, stop putting the task bar on the long dimension of the monitor -- that's the one where you have the least distance to play with. And if you're doing any document-based work, then it's a MUST to use portrait orientation.
Or were you just going to dick around, switching the left workspace, then the right one, then the left, then the right?
When people join my lab, they universally comment on how efficient my work setup is ... and usually leave using a very similar setup themselves.
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How To do this with KDE (Score:2)
Ok, you can't actually get seperate virtual desktops on different screens, however, using KDE you may be able to get something that's roughly feature equivalent.
Using your favorite one of xrandr, xorg.conf, or the proprietary Nvidia/ATI tools, you can set up multiple monitors. The default behavior, in the latest Xorg, at least, will let you swap windows between your two displays, the default behavior for "maximize" in KDE will be to fill a single display with one large window, but if you do need a window t
X server abstraction makes this hard (Score:2)
X server abstraction makes this hard.
The X server sits between your display driver and your window manager and does not communicate sufficient information about the underlying devices to the client program, which in this case is the window manager itself, that it's able to distinguish the real estate boundaries between the displays. Because it doesn't know the boundaries, it can't make good decisions on mapping a workspace (a window manager abstraction) onto a display (an X Server abstraction which is bein
KDE/Gnome are 'classical' windows managers? (Score:2)
Seriously? You think KDE and Gnome are 'classical' window managers? Neither of them is a window manager. They don't call themselves window managers. They might include a window manager, but that's not what they are. Classical window managers are things like TWM, FVWM, Window Maker, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Enlightenment, Afterstep.
Gumpy old Linux guy.
This is a first (Score:5, Informative)
Smug answers from Windows users AND smug answers from Linux users - and neither group seems to actually understand the questions the poster is asking!
He wants independent desktops, guys. All these silly "Jus use Windows 7, dummy" and "Use Xinerama, idiot" responders are not grasping that fundamental point - you're all thinking of one large desktop that spans multiple monitors. Basically you're confusing desktops with viewports.
Unfortunately I don't know the answer either - but I do think I at least understand the question...
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No - he doesn't understand what he wants because he has freely intermixed the terms desktop and workspace in the question. This has quite rightly confused the crap out of both sides of the never-ending windows-vs-linux death-match on slashdot.
It sounds like he wants independent workspace flipping on both screens, while dragging windows between. This is not hard to do, but by mentioning desktops he has confused everyone. The majority of the posts above are telling him that you cannot transfer windows between
Re:Gentoo? (Score:5, Funny)
Go away, TROLL! (Score:3, Funny)
So, Mr. Ballmer, would you please elucidate us on which is better, to have one big desktop where changing workspaces switches both monitors at once, or having one X session for each display?
I'm curious to know your opinion, since both alternatives have their own advantages and disadvantages and, since configuring Linux for dual monitors is so easy, using any of those two alternatives presents no problems.
BTW, I'm curious by what you say about how easy
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The two setups the OP is talking about have disadvantages. With the one large desktop when you maximize a window it fills both monitors and things might size oddly if your monitors aren't the same size/resolution. If you run two xsessions you can't move applications between the separate monitors since they are different sessions.
In Windows 7 multiple monitors were made extremely easy to setup, and a simple press of win-p will pop up a display which allows the mode to switch which makes connecting your lap
Re:Go away, TROLL! (Score:5, Informative)
With the one large desktop when you maximize a window it fills both monitors
No it doesn't. Most window managers have handled multihead the way you saw Windows 7 does for some years now (five or six, I think).
Putty vs. Cygwin (Score:3, Informative)
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Cygwin has some issues: notably: it won't work on 64 bit windows *anything*. So as much as I'd love to run it, no bites for what is probably a good portion of the slashie crowd. Virtualbox can do it, but at that point I highly doubt running putty is the concern. I don't get why someone would need an x-session for putty anyway though, putty runs natively on windows - maybe it's my lack of understanding the reasoning/purpose to do so or something.
Re:Go away, TROLL! (Score:5, Informative)
That's true and it does not depend on which operating system you're using.
It was extremely easy to setup in Linux long before Windows 7 came out.
Of course. In Linux, or at least in KDE, there are several other easy ways to handle window resizing. If you mid-click in the maximize button the window is maximized vertically but it keeps the original horizontal size. Conversely, if you right-click in the maximize button the window is maximized horizontally and keeps the vertical size. Want to fine-tune the window size? Press the ALT key and the right mouse button simultaneously, the cursor will grab the *nearest* window border, no need to hit the *exact* pixels of the border.
If you say so. All I know is that it's trivial in Linux, but I always hear people complaining they must install Cygwin and puTTY and I don't know what else to run Xwindow in Windows.
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I hear it's trivial but then I tried it: I had a T43 Thinkpad that supports an external monitor. I installed Ubuntu on it (and tried Kubuntu also). I tried versions 8.x and 9.x of Ubuntu. Double heading the display was a nightmare. The monitors had differing resolutions and it seemed like I basically got the choice between one resolution or the other for both monitors. Forum advice basically consisted of people telling me to hand edit some crazy display config file that looked like the video version a sendm
Read the original post closely (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux isn't all that hard to configure for dual monitors in the usual sense, one extended desktop. Just use Xinerama (if you aren't using nVidia cards). I used to have 2 monitors and my livingroom TV all hooked to my machine. It wasn't that hard though I did have to edit the xorg.conf file wh
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No, it doesn't. Windows doesn't have virtual desktops at all, so the set-up the OP wants (separate virtual desktops on each display) is completely impossible.
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Actually there is a powertoy that gives you virtual desktops, called desktops. There are some limitations, such as you can't move stuff between desktops, and some apps get pissy about launching; once you learn to live with the limitations its a great app to have.
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Is that the same one that can easily be made to crash the kernel? Or is it a new one?
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Ha, that too? I never actually tried the desktops one because of the crash reports... I did try the one that was supposed to give you mouse focus. It sucked. Although I like mouse focus and multiple desktops with X11 I've mostly given up on them anywhere else.
Apparently there are a handful of commercial third-party programs that are supposed to give you multiple desktops on Windows, some of which are supposed to be much better than the powertoy one.
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the windows virtual desktops are kinda crappy, actually. It works if you must have a virtual desktop equivalent for windows, but that doesn't mean it works *well* or successfully.
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There are any number of utilities that will give you multiple virtual desktops on Windows, while retaining Windows' native multi-display features.
In fact, one comes from Sysinternals, which is now part of Microsoft itself. It's called Desktops. It only does 4 virtual desktops though, so if that's not enough, you'll have to look elsewhere.
--Jeremy
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Virtual Workspace addons for Windows? They're all crap. That goes triple for the "powertoy" one.
Ultramon for Windows (Score:3, Interesting)
Ultramon is not crap, and it does exactly what the OP wants.
So the question becomes: Is there a Linux tool like Ultramon?
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No, it doesn't. Windows doesn't have virtual desktops at all, so the set-up the OP wants (separate virtual desktops on each display) is completely impossible.
If you assume what he wants is separate virtual desktops, plus the ability to move applications from one to another, then that doesn't exist.
The fact is that if you truly do have virtual desktops, then they cannot know about each other by definition, therefore dragging applications between them is impossible.
Car analogy for Windows users (Score:5, Insightful)
You didn't understand the question.
Here's a simple car analogy: a Linux user asking for tips on advanced uses of virtual desktops is like an off-road rally racer asking for tips on configuring the differentials on a 4x4. Your answer is "use a Ford Taurus".
Re:Car analogy for Windows users (Score:5, Funny)
a Linux user asking for tips on advanced uses of virtual desktops is like an off-road rally racer asking for tips on configuring the differentials on a 4x4. Your answer is "use a Ford Taurus".
Your car analogy makes more sense, in fact, since the largest purchasers of the Ford Taurus were car rental agencies. Everyone knows that the best off-road vehicle is a rented vehicle.
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legitimate reason number 1: I like a variety of video games. There is a small selection of them for linux and most of them are odd.
legitimate reason number 2: My job requires software that runs on windows or has other policies requiring windows.
legitimate reason number 3: My hardware doesn't have reasonable driver support under linux.
legitimate reason number 4: ... Ok, I am starting to run out of reasons.
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It would be cool if macs did that, but they don't. So getting a mac is totally useless for him.
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How do you define/measure "quality"?
By the price.
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think that actually answers the OPs question. Xinerama or XRandR allow you to set up dual head (which the OP presumably already knows about - he talks about having "one big desktop," which is what Xinerama and XRandR give you), but virtual desktops are handled by the window manager, not by Xinerama or XRandR. A Xinerama or XRandR aware window manager could do what the OP wants, giving separate virtual desktops on each monitor, but simply using Xinerama or XRandR won't get that effect unless you use a specific window manager which offers that option.
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I looked in to this a few years ago, wouldn't work back then so I'm glad some one asked because I'm not in the habit of constantly asking Google the same question everyday and getting the same result. /. they can use real English to describe the problem and have people i
I'm not insane, not yet anyway. Plus if you don't have a good search string then you're not going to find good answers. Some of the people here get mad for people asking dumb questions but give the guy a break. At least when (s)he's asking
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:5, Informative)
xinerama + xrandr does not solve the question posed by the OP. Xinerama allows the two alternatives mentioned in the OP as the undesired options (i.e. either two monitors as one screen sharing a workspace, or a separate screen on each monitor which does not allow moving windows between screens).
OP wants two monitors with their own separate workspaces, while still being able to drag windows between them.
In other words, OP wants to be able to transfer running applications between separate X screens, which to my knowledge is not currently possible (or, if it's possible, the functionality is not exposed in Gnome or KDE).
This isn't "+1 Insightful", it's "-1 Didn't bother reading the OP" (or "-1 Doesn't really know what xinerama+xrandr does").
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Believe or not, if you use a win32 box as an X-Terminal via xmingw or cygwin/X, configured in no-root (floating window mode), and let win32 handle the dual monitors... You really get the best of both worlds.
I stumbled on this solution a couple of years ago, and although my primary setup is a Sun with two separate displays (no xinerama), I like it quite a lot.
Also, windows has a nifty target when you click the control key so you can find that lost mouse pointer. Unnecessary with only two monitors, but once y
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What happens when you change a virtual desktop on the left monitor? Does it also change on the right? That's what happens in my experience. Maybe twinview has this fixed, but that's only a solution for those with nvidia cards.
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Not a solution in themselves - using Xinerama makes it possible to have a big desktop spread across multiple monitors AFAIK, which is not what the Asker needs. He wants separate virtual desktop switching on each monitor, which most WMs don't do under Xinerama, though as he notes there are some tiling WMs that do something like this.
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neither one supports my second monitor natively. Xrandr is working on support so maybe by next christmas I can finally switch to linux on my second computer. I can hack Xorg, and recompile the kernel to make it work but since it works with only a driver install on mac and windows that is the way I am going for now. and every time i want to upgrade I am stuck.
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And what string did you search on such that those solutions popped up?
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The first three mention either xrandr or xinerama. Didn't check beyond that.
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"linux dual head [google.com]"
The first three mention either xrandr or xinerama. Didn't check beyond that.
Just don't leave linux out of that search or you'll get very different results
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:4, Informative)
Probably "xinerama and xrandr"
When searching for an answer, it helps to know the answer.
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:5, Funny)
Gosh, isn't it obvious?! Fucking christ, it's the 201st decade, use clairvoyance.
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I'm going to steal that comment the next time my friend asks me to find something he can't find with google.
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He's not really right, AFAICS. A solution might include Xinerama and xrandr but they're not a solution in themselves. Most window managers will switch desktops on all displays simultaneously if you use Xinerama, whereas he wants desktop switching independently on different monitors. You also can't do it easily with separate X screens because it's apparently not possible to move windows between them, which he also would like to do.
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While you're right to, I find it incredibly ironic that half the time when I use Google to find an answer, that answer itself contains some ridicule of the original question along the lines of "Just fucking Google it!".
I'm kinda thankful that people ask questions every now and then as it gives me something for Google to find.
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That link just describes the two alternatives mentioned in the OP. It doesn't even address the question posed by the OP.
In other words, your link describes two monitors sharing a workspace. OP wants two monitors with separate workspaces, while still being able to drag windows between them.
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Install Windows 7, run Linux in a VM.
Still doesn't solve the problem of Linux window management, though, does it? :)
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No, xinerama does not allow that. Near as I can tell, it's due to a fundament design... flaw... of X - that is, windows are tied to the X screen on which they were created.
You can set up multiple monitors such that each montior is its own X screen with its own set of workspaces. However, this prevents you from moving windows from one monitor to the other, which is what the OP wants to do, because each monitor is a separate X screen.
On the other hand, Xinerama lets you share one screen across multiple moni
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If you're having trouble doing this with X, then maybe you should read the rest of the comments talking about how possible it is, and relatively easily.
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Agreed. DWM is a 2000 lines of elegant art for programmers. It also has exactly the behavior the questioner is asking for. One changes the workspace on each screen separately, and it is easy to move applications between screens.
Although I prefer DWM for myself, I rarely recommend it to others. Perhaps that is a bit snobbish, but I just think most people are unable to appreciate it properly.
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What do you mean? How do you enable multiple desktops on Windows without 3rd party software?
The OP is not talking about spreading the desktop over multiple screens which is what most distributions do.
He want to combine multiple screens and multiple desktops in a way that is not common. I personally like the OP's suggestion but apparently we must be in the minority since only Enlightenment does it that way...
That said, multiple screens have a long history of being harder on Linux due to driver issues. I beli