Defending Self In a Case of On-Line Identity Theft? 390
SoccerDad41 writes "I am a systems administrator for an Indiana-based bricks-n-clicks retailer currently suspended because an unscrupulous typosquatter stole my name and registration information for his/her fraudulent domain registration. My company hired a third party service to protect their trademark by identifying and terminating infringing web sites. The third party identified a domain name, performed a WhoIs lookup & issued a complaint in compliance within ICANN's rules. This was presumably all reported back to our Legal department and it was noticed that the name on the domain registration matched mine. I have a locally uncommon ethnic last name so an immediate connection to me was made & although I protested my absolute innocence in the matter, I have been suspended on grounds of violating non-compete policies pending proof that it isn't me. The fraudulent domain registration was made with a different registrar (let's call them Registrar B) than the one my company uses (let's call them Registrar A). The public parts of the registration information at Registrar B match pretty exactly those of my legitimate domain registrations at Registrar A, including Registrar A's mailing address and phone number. The only things left out in the mailing address are the reference to a domain name and ATTN: Registrar A. Of course the anonymized email address differs as well. Surely I'm not the first in the Slashdot community to find myself in this situation. I'd like to avoid incurring the cost of a lawyer but I am intent on maintaining my good name and continued employment. What are my rights and responsibilities in this matter? What is my best course of action? How did you resolve this issue? How can I prove it's not me?"
Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
See a lawyer.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
And ask them what?
Re: (Score:2)
"effective and brutal libel"
Google turned up nothing. Did you just make this up? Oh and yes I agree that hiring a lawyer is the best thing to do. The problem with dealing with employers is they can invent the most flimsy excuses (or just flat-out lies) to remove an employee, and there's little you can do to self-defend yourself. You really need the full weight of government and a court of law if you expect to win an unjustified termination lawsuit.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with dealing with employers is they can invent the most flimsy excuses (or just flat-out lies) to remove an employee, and there's little you can do to self-defend yourself. You really need the full weight of government and a court of law if you expect to win an unjustified termination lawsuit.
Why should they invent an excuse or lie? In the U.S., they can fire you for any reason at all, or no reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment [wikipedia.org]
(The exceptions are for government employees, employees with an employment contract, and union members. They can't fire you for reasons that are protected by discrimination law, like race, religion or gender.)
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Interesting)
>>>Why should they invent an excuse or lie?
They did it to me. I was signed to a 6-month contract, but the company suddenly decided to cut costs by getting rid of half the staff. Since I was only 1 month into the 6 month contract, they invented a bunch of lies: "You eat too much food at lunch time," and "You showed up late for the 11 o'clock meeting [even though I was there at 10:55]," and "You charged 45 hours when you were not given permission [even though just one week earlier the boss said we could go upto 50]."
They had to Lie to make it appear I had broken the terms.
Otherwise my termination would have been a breach of contract.
(BTW don't ever work for Rockwell Collins in Iowa; they treat you poorly.)
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're being deliberately obtuse, which may be a good skill for you to possess in the courtroom, but not on slashdot. An "effective and brutal libel" attorney is a libel attorney that is effective and brutal. This isn't a legal term; this is English. You need to be able to read and parse both.
You're completely correct that the OP needs to go talk to a lawyer. Slashdot, at most, might provide some technical clues to tracking down the real culprit.
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Informative)
You claim to be a lawyer, and your advice is:
He "owns" the domain. Since it has his contact info, he can get the domain into his boss's hands in 1 day. Since he is the official owner of record, all he has to do is tell them he wants the domain transferred to the company, and that the email address is inaccurate. They will ask him for proof of identity. He sends them, either by email or by FedEx, a copy of his drivers license, which has the right name and address on it, and they initiate the transfer.
Since he's also the official "owner", he can also ask for "his" billing info and what the email address on record was. It's not like the scammer will sue for identity theft.
End result? The employer has the domain, the scammer is out a domain, and he gets the billing info and email address quickly, all for the cost of a pizza. If the email address is for some place in China, and the cc info is stolen, then the only people unhappy are the scammer and the lawyer who didn't get a 4-figure retainer and manage to churn it into a 5-figure lawsuit.
That's 2 scams for the price of one. Stupid lawyers, trying to make everything into a lawsuit. Shakespeare had it right.
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
if you had any sense you would have started acting terribly emotionally damaged. Fake a suicide attempt. Find a friendly doctor to certify you depressed. Disappear into the wilderness on camping expeditions (so that you can have fun in an environment where it will be difficult to trace you) etc. etc.
You are an asshole. It is people saying shit like you do that make people so cynical about people who have real mental health problems. Many people do not help friends, family, etc., because they assume people are faking and are trying to be manipulative when they talk about suicide or make suicide attempts. And the reason they think that way is because when non-depressed people talk about suicide, they typically talk about how they can use it to game the system.
So screw you. People die because of your cynicism.
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
as many will presumably say: See a lawyer.
While slashdot can give you eggcelent legal advice, It'll hit you in the face that you don't play dice with the important parts of your life.
So please mods, don't put redundant to the people who say "Get a lawyer"
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
as many will presumably say: See a lawyer.
While slashdot can give you eggcelent legal advice, It'll hit you in the face that you don't play dice with the important parts of your life.
When you do see a lawyer, you need to know two things: The law and the facts.
The facts include the details of how domain registration works. The lawyer may not know that. Readers of Slashdot may well know important information about domain registration that the lawyer can't easily get and would need to make the best decision about this situation.
Re:Uh, what? (Score:4, Insightful)
When you do see a lawyer, you need to know two things: The law and the facts
Incorrect - This is like saying when you go see the doctor, you need to know your symptoms and how to perform surgery.
All you need to know are the facts. The laywer will know the law. S/he'll likely have to go away and do some homework, but s/he'll come back to you with 'the law.'
Re:Uh, what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You suck at picking lawyers.
Exactly right. Unless you live in Mayberry, you need to ensure your lawyer is familiar with your part of law. If they're not, you need to go talk to a different laywer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
BEST WAY TO FIND A LAWYER:
Call your local (or closest) law school. They will be able to refer you to an (alumni likely) expert/specialist in the area of law you need help.
The two times I needed a lawyer I asked a lawyer for a referral to a specialist in the area.
As a bonus, when going through the law school, depending on your case, you might find pro-bono help.
-nB
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
When hiring any professional, it helps to know enough to decide if they know enough.
Re: (Score:2)
***as many will presumably say: See a lawyer.***
Well, yes -- obviously. ... assuming that no IT genius has a clever answer unknown to most of us.
The real question here, is how do you find a lawyer who is not going to end up billing one for a zillion hours while they learn the laws and customary practices applicable to this complex, narrow, and rather obscure situation?
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Lawyers are expensive, and many of them are less than perfectly competent. With a complex technical issue like this, you could end up spending a ton of money if you don't do as much research as you can first.
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Funny)
first get a copy of your contract etc (Score:2, Insightful)
It’s a moot point if the alleged misconduct is serious enough offence to warrant precautionary suspension - did you have any hearing at all. Precautionary suspension is only to stop people accused of serious crimes from fiddling with the evidence, which in this case I don’t see how that would be possible
How ever an “off the r
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am however somewhat surprised by/skeptical about this story. How did the poster's name and info get associated w/ this? This sounds like an inside job or there's additional info missing from this story (which may be due to just trying to remain anonymous-ish).
Retain Shaggy as Counsel (Score:5, Funny)
Say it wasn't you.
Re: (Score:2)
You missed the important part.
"It wasn't me, man!
IANAL but you should... (Score:2)
Contact a lawyer.
Begging the question (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sorry you are in this unfortunate situation. However, you have begged the question, and ACCEPTED AS FACT that they presume you guilty and that YOU MUST PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE.
That's not how it works.
Please in writing request a meeting with your boss and the corporate counsel.
Explain simply these NONTECHNICAL FACTS:
1. You have done nothing to violate your terms of employment, your noncompete, or other agreements.
2. If the company has PROOF that YOU did it, it is THEIR responsibility to show it.
3. Until they do so, you want your job and pay FULLY reinstated.
Offer them a concession:
If they fear you MIGHT be a risk, they can PAY YOU, put you on a PAID BREAK until it is resolved.
Additionally ONCE they do so, you ARE WILLING to help them figure it out.
If they ask you a bunch of stupid questions like:
1. Why wouldn't you want to clear your name?
2. Why won't you volunteer information?
3. Can we search your home/hard drive/etc?
4. When did you stop beating your wife?
BE POLITE, BE RESPECTFUL, and tell them you ARE willing to be cooperative, but FIRST they must
restore the rights of yours they have trampled (job, pay, respect), and after that you will help them but
you will not give up your CIVIL or CONSTITUTIONALLY or LEGALLY protected rights to do so.
You don't need a lawyer for this unless they insist on not giving you job/pay back.
In that case, hire a lawyer and you'll be happy to find many who will take a case like this on contingency.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Never give up your right to be innocent by begging the question of "But why am I suddenly guilty."
E
Re:Begging the question (Score:4, Funny)
or get a lawyer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No "ands" about it. Get a lawyer, make no moves that he or she has not advised you on. The company has already found you guilty, for all intents and purposes. Sometimes the mere fact that you let management know you have retained counsel will be enough to convince them to back off. If they let this go to a court of law, they're crazy. The flimsy way in which a lot of registrars allow domain registrations ought to be enough to convince a judge that the company needs more than same names to create a conv
Employment "at will"? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, you have begged the question, and ACCEPTED AS FACT that they presume you guilty and that YOU MUST PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE.
Isn't that how it works in the US where you have (at least in some states) employment "at will" and it is very easy for a company to fire someone? The innocent until proven guilty only works for criminal cases. This sort of thing is exactly why you need laws protecting employees....of course he really needs to talk to a lawyer to see whether there are any such laws applicable here.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, parent is correct. It is very difficult to protect employees with laws for this kind of thing, at least not without also protecting employees who are simply inept, have a rotten attitude, or are just plain old lazy. If a company decides you've done something that's perfectly legal but contrary to their policy, then in many states you can indeed be fired. Personally, as a business owner in an at-will state, I would say that any business who fires somebody over something like this without even a cursory
Re: (Score:2)
they just start the very long paper trail of documenting your 'poor performance and attitude' and xyz other legal requirements to fire you, so that when you do finally lose your job, you're a) completely unprepared and b) now have a paper trail of BS performance reviews and poor references.
I don't see how you can have both (a) and (b). If you get (b) then surely you can see the writing on the wall? However it is an interesting point of view. I grew up in the UK which has frankly insane employment protection laws that make it extremely hard to fire anyone even for appalling performance. But I still think that some level of protection is required. In this case the OP could get fired AND get poor references simply because the company can't be bothered to do its homework.
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It's time we ended both unverified registrations and "privacy protection" for domain registrations.
Not only will it make this sort of crime harder, but it will also reduce spam, since it will be a lot easier to track down the spammer (most of whom hide behind a bogus or "private" registration).
The other route is to simply have all dns servers return a "not found" when a domain registration is not confirmed
Re: (Score:2)
In fact, while this doesn't happen in my line of work (thankfully), what you'll see in states with these legal protections is that, when your company decides they want to fire you for any reason at all, they just start the very long paper trail of documenting your 'poor performance and attitude' and xyz other legal requirements to fire you, so that when you do finally lose your job, you're a) completely unprepared and b) now have a paper trail of BS performance reviews and poor references. You might say 'well that's a dishonest company,' and indeed you'd be correct, but that's what happens when the government doesn't let two private parties resolve their differences through a more natural means: resentment builds up and the work environment tanks. I'd sooner work in an at-will state than one where I'm 'protected.'
I work in pretty much the exact opposite of an at-will state, around here typical termination notice is one month in first six months of employment, then three months. They have to give a reason for termination, either their situation (e.g. downsizing ,restructuring, relocation, lack of work etc.) or your situation (performance, attitude, breach of rules etc.).
Around here a significant part of the process is that the employee is informed that the job performance is so poor it may result in termination, and
You actually need two lawyers... (Score:2)
Isn't that how it works in the US where you have (at least in some states) employment "at will" and it is very easy for a company to fire someone? The innocent until proven guilty only works for criminal cases. This sort of thing is exactly why you need laws protecting employees....of course he really needs to talk to a lawyer to see whether there are any such laws applicable here.
The question you pose, again, reinforces the reason why you need to speak with a labor attorney in your state, and probably another attorney that deals with identity theft.
There are two things going on here, folks. One, his identity was stolen and used fraudulently. That's a criminal matter and you need to call the police and/or FBI. The outcome of that investigation then needs to flow into the civil labor case where you were unduly suspended from your job for something that is clearly out of character f
Re:Begging the question (Score:5, Informative)
Get a lawyer first. There's all sorts of things you can say that will screw you. Don't go talking to your employer without talking to a lawyer first.
I say this as a former business owner; the first thing I would have done as your employer is consult our attorney about the situation. If you request a meeting, chances are they will have corporate counsel there. I would have been acting on legal advice; so should you.
GET A LAWYER!
Re:Begging the question (Score:5, Informative)
"Innocent until proven guilty." ... only in criminal cases, and even then it's only "*presumed* innocent until proven guilty".
Fair or not, the best possible advice for this situation is to get a lawyer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This sounds logical, but it is not true or even relevant in states like Texas, where a company can terminate you for any reason.
However, when you apply for unemployment, things can get tricky for the abusive company, and they can wind up paying unemployment.
This I am certain of, because it happened to me.
It is not the right to be innocent, like he stated above, but right to work, which does not actually exist in Texas.
Innocent is only applicable when the government comes after you whith officers of the law,
Failing resolution with this good advice... (Score:2)
... contact the NLRB, National Labor Relations Board, as a next step. They may in effect do any necessary lawyering for you.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Indiana is an employment at will state.
Absent an agreement to the contrary, specifically stating otherwise, they can fire him at will, for any reason, provided the reason is not prohibited by law (i.e. discrimination laws).
Suspicion alone IS grounds for dismissal in almost any employment at will state.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds to me like the US system is totally and utterly fucked up.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Last I check the US System works better than most.
If you absolutely cannot hire an attorney... (Score:5, Insightful)
Grab a Nolo book or two (check your library, or www.nolo.com), file a "pro se" lawsuit against John Does 1-20, and via that lawsuit subpoena the domain name registrar. Get everything they have, IP address(es) used to register the domain (i.e., load the website), etc. Get records from wherever the site was hosted. Get ISP records corresponding to the IP addresses in use by the person/people who registere the domain name / set up the website. Etc. Document, document, document. Then summarize it in a memo to your employer, citing to the documents you've uncovered (include them as labeled exhibits, e.g., "As you can see from the Billing Information Statement ("Billing"), attached hereto as Exhibit A...")
And then, as long as you're already wet, go swimming. If you can come close to identifying these asshats, amend the complaint and sue 'em. (Service might be tricky, but if you can satisfy the diligence requirement, most jurisdictions will allow substitute service by publication. Then go for the default judgment... Satisfying it will likely be impossible, but having a civil judgment in your favor can't hurt your attempts to remain employed and clear your name.)
Disclaimer, I am a lawyer, but I am not licensed in Indiana, this is not legal advice, this does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Re: (Score:2)
Trouble is if is is in an "at will" employment state, they have every right to fire him without cause anyway, so all he could do is soil their reputation as unreasonable... if his employment contract does not forbid him from making disparaging remarks. About the only thing they probably can't make him do is honor non-compete agreements if he is fired -- courts frown on that.
Like I say, You can't be fired for the color of your skin, but you can be fired for the color of your eyes.
Re:If you absolutely cannot hire an attorney... (Score:5, Funny)
... this is not legal advice, this does not create an attorney-client relationship.
And these are not the droids you are looking for.
Re:If you absolutely cannot hire an attorney... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If you absolutely cannot hire an attorney... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey. Good legal advice? Man, this is slashdot. You know good legal advice is not allowed here.
We only permit crap legal advice that will further screw you, like what some anonymous cowards above posted.
We will be suing your backside immediately. Violation of the implied slashdot posting rulesf and all that that you agreed to sight unseen by posting on slashdot..
You are out of work, man.
Sayonara dude.
There's obviously more to this story (Score:2, Interesting)
This sounds like a perfect example of a situation where there's lots more information that what we are given. It may be completely unrelated to the actual event, but is still relevant.
This falls under the category of "something weird". If a company really likes the employee involved with "something weird" they will probably believe the employee's story and not waste their time with legalities. If said employee is a nuisance (bad work ethic, loud mouth, does not get along well with others, causing proble
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, lots of companies in this economically downturned climate are just jumping at any reason to layoff or fire an employee. They don't care whether you are good, liked, essential, etc. Tis already happened to me and friends at a small company that had venture cap tired of losing money. And after they got rid of all the people they could, including several they could not do without, they went belly-up. So just try suing them.
Legal department of company? (Score:4, Interesting)
Get in contact with a lawyer and check what your options are, but try to find a lawyer that knows what internet is about. Evidence on the net is always a tricky thing. If the registrar is in the country where you live you may have some legal options to use to get evidence behind who did the fraudulent registration.
If the domain points to a web server somewhere it's also possible to check who is owning that server and is behind the web page.
But if your address is on the registration you may actually be able to contact Registrar B and ask them to snail-mail you sufficient data to take control over the domain and then transfer it to the company that employs you. Go in and specify something like that you no longer is able to access the email account for the registration or something. When you are in control of it you may have a possibility to go back and ask them for logs about when it was registered and payment process. It's a case of following the money. However try the lawyer path first because if you find the money behind it then you can also find the culprit.
However placing you on suspension seems to be a bit hard, and you may have a case here too.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Those are all steps that the company should make. If he does it, he is "generating evidence" that may not count as proof of his innocence. But I seriously doubt that the company is interested in hiring anyone to do any fact finding to disprove what they already believe to be the case. We have seen it all a thousand times: Belief is stronger than proof. They will feel no need to collect proof of this innocence as they already believe they have sufficient proof of his guilt. And if you present proof of i
no lawyer ???? (Score:2)
Sounds like you do need a lawyer! Also sounds like it's urgent. Good luck! - Stephan
Gain control and terminate (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm unclear on the problem. If the info at registrar B matches your info, then you can gain control of the account and terminate it. If it doesn't, then you'll have proof the lawsuit is baseless. If you can't get control, the denial letter from the registrar will serve as proof the lawsuit is baseless.
Of course, to use this proof in court, you'll need a lawyer. But hopefully just getting a lawyer will encourage your company to cool down and talk sense.
But once all this is over, you need to scrub your info from the registration and replace it with the company's info, since it's their domain. You'll then want to quit this job, since this company is more interested in lawsuits than business.
GET.A.LAWYER.NOW. (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem: His company now sees him as a liability. Anything he does with this domain can backfire ten times. He claims nothing to do with the domain, so he should have nothing to do with it at all.
DO NOT DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW BUT GET A LAWYER!
Re:Gain control and terminate (Score:5, Insightful)
Tough one (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow. Two thoughts immediately come to mind:
1 - Seek some competent legal advice. Don't be a fucking moron: You're about to lose your job and reputation and maybe be sued out of existence and your biggest worry is to "avoid incurring the cost of a lawyer"? So you come to slashdot instead? Mindboggling. Maybe some other competent professional advice as well?
2 - Sounds like too many coincidences to convince a jury. To prove you've been framed you would have to find out who did it and how they benefited doing it or you'll just sound like your garden variety disgruntled employee / asshole too clever for is own good or something like that. If I were you I'd start looking for another job.
Contact the registrar. (Score:3, Interesting)
If the whois information identifies you are the registrant, then contact the registrar. Identify yourself and take control of the domain name.
If the registrar refuses, include them in the lawsuit.
Re:Contact the registrar. (Score:5, Insightful)
Identify yourself and take control of the domain name.
This seems rather risky without legal consultation. It could be used to further incriminate you.
Re: (Score:2)
And if they comply, you would be proving you are indeed the squatter.
In other words, don't do it and contact a lawyer first. Once you're cleared, you could do it as a token gesture for your company.
The only thing the squatters can do to prevent you from doing the transfer at a later time would be to change the registration. Considering the situation, that would add evidence pointing to the real culprits.
STOP. GET A LAWYER. (Score:5, Informative)
GET A LAWYER.
Any further action on your part may be detrimental otherwise.
Lawyers. (Score:4, Insightful)
Really odd circumstances (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Really odd circumstances (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, because the most convoluted explanation is the most probable one.
As someone already said, for someone who wants to run some scam on a company with a fake domain, it's trivial to look up the admin/tech contact for their real domain. Why? I don't know, maybe to make it seem to whatever victim that would be bothered to run a whoisthat the domain was registered by the same representative of the actual company.
And even if this were a question from a scammer, given the facts that answers are based on, the info would apply to someone else in a similar situation. The situation being, in my view, a bunch of office types without the faintest idea of the triviality of the registration process, threatening a job that the OP wants to keep. Just ask any email admin, for example, about all the times they had to explain how easily the CEO's email address can be forged and that they don't need to call in the local detectives.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Another scenario:
Poster was trying to pull something on his employer, gets caught, posts on /. pleading innocent for help on how to dig himself out of the shit he's in.
How do we know... (Score:5, Interesting)
...that it wasn't you? Seriously, folks: Maybe this individual is guilty as charged, and he's asking us about ways to defend his actions, or how to create a web of plausible deniability. Think about it: If this situation really happened to a truly innocent party, with looming consequences of job loss (especially in the current economy), don't you think said party would seek the advice of counsel before airing out his laundry on /.?
I know some of us are always willing to lend a hand to a fellow geek, but sometimes I have to shake my head at how quickly some of you jump to defend an individual who claims to be innocent, framed, whatever.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I was thinking in the same direction. Why/How would someone out there know to use a particular trademarked name and to also use a particular person's name who is associated with the company as an IT person to register a domain name?!
I have a feeling that there's a bit more to know than we are being told. I would not discount the possibility that this guy actually did register the domain hoping his company would buy it from him for a tidy profit and it backfired... badly.
I think we are short on facts here
Re: (Score:2)
I was thinking in the same direction. Why/How would someone out there know to use a particular trademarked name and to also use a particular person's name who is associated with the company as an IT person to register a domain name?!
Well now, let's say I wanted to run a scam involving infringement of Acme Incorporated's website, www.acmeinc.com. My first step would be to pick a similar-sounding domain name, then I would open up a terminal and type in "whois www.acmeinc.com". Boom. Now I just use the information in the whois record when registering my own domain name, anyone who wonders why there is both a "www.acmeinc.com" website (the legit one) and a "www.acmeincfreestuffinexchangeforyourcreditcardnumber.com" (my fake website) and de
Paper trail (Score:2)
Somebody paid to register that domain. Find out who it was. Maybe that means subpoenaing Registrar B for a credit card number or bank account, and subpoenaing the bank for the account holder's name.
"Identity theft" is just fraud, twisted around to make the impersonated customer the victim rather than the business that allowed it to happen. Fraud is a crime, and law enforcement should be involved. Of course, IANAL.
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Fraud is a crime, and law enforcement should be involved. Of course, IANAL.
I've been through this myself in the past. You don't need to be a laywer or anything to know that identity theft is a crime. Duh.
But what's really going on here isn't identity theft so much as hijacking a website. Since it's not actually identity theft in terms that the police understand, and is a more a civil dispute, don't bother with them right now.
Let me tell you something I learned early in life:
Lawyers and lots of detailed pa
register a domain name using your boss's details (Score:2)
If you can do this, then it proves how simple it is, and the onus is then on them to either /prove/ that you were the person that registered the domain name you're accused of, or accept that your boss has been registering domain-names without his/her own knowledge.
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't a bad idea if the company is willing to be reasonable - but you want to have permission to do it first.
Get A Lawyer! STAT!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Consulting a lawyer is the only sensible thing to do at this point. Of course if you really want to go out in a blaze of irony, you could also register another domain in the head of HR's name or the CEO's name just as was done to you. :D
Strat
You kidding with us, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to avoid incurring the cost of a lawyer but I am intent on maintaining my good name and continued employment.
Right...so let me get this straight: You stand a good chance of losing your job, affecting your life and your family's well-being, and you're too cheap to hire a lawyer? I'm sorry, but you really have your priorities out of whack if you think posting your woes on /. is time well spent.
Enemy Action dude... (Score:2)
Way too many coincidental details to be a random ID thief, this is someone who knows you and who is out to bury you.
Hire a lawyer AND a PI.
Then sit back, STFU and let them do the work.
good luck.
Who was the registrar? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are you stupid? (Score:2)
Get a lawyer. OF COURSE get a lawyer.
Here's the thing with the legal system in the United States-
It's not if THE LAW is on your side, it's if THE JUDGE is on your side. The major benefit of hiring a lawyer, especially a "local" lawyer, is that he likely knows the judge personally. You likely don't. A lawyer will get things done that you can't, simply because he is part of the local "old boys club".
Basically, you have to hire a lawyer, because it shows that you are willing to "play ball", as they say. When y
Get another job elsewhere. (Score:2)
You are working for assholes who are assuming that the registration is yours even though you explained the situation.
Who would be dumb enough to register a domain which infringes on his employer's trademark somehow, and using his real name?
What for?
think (Score:2)
registration in your name (Score:2)
First off, if the registration is in your name with your address, phone number and email address then you should have a very easy time taking control of it. Write a letter (on paper) to your employer requesting permission to do so with the intent of collecting all information contained in the account and turning it over to the company. Take no action unless they grant permission in writing.
Second, hire a lawyer to write you a letter to the effect of, "Mr. You's name was forged on the system in question. The
That's one asshat company (Score:2)
This story seems fishy... (Score:3, Interesting)
This story doesn't seem to add up. Why wouldn't a competent SysAdmin just contact Registrar B either by an Abuse, or a Support resolution process? Worst case scenario, a competent registrar will want a letter on the victim company's official letterhead, or some notarized document, to prove identity. Best case scenario, you could take over the domain (registered in YOUR name), and shut the site down by lunch-time on Tuesday.
If it were me and I WANTED to keep my job, then I'd lawyer up, if that didn't work.
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I think you're right. Anyway, registrar B probably wouldn't let him without access to the creator's account. And his inability to login probably won't be enough to prove he's not the domain owner. I see no upside with this approach.
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No, no, no, no, no, and... NO. Do not do this.
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Wouldn't that be a telltale sign of someone caught with their hand in the cookie jar? To the company, that could be seen as even clearer proof that you have been in control of this domain all along and trying to avoid a lawsuit on your ass. I would not touch that domain with a ten foot pole, if you're suspended with pay I'd say wait it out. If you're suspended without pay, dispute it and demand full compensation with interest from day one. Go see a lawyer to hear how long they can keep you suspended, I dou
Re:Don't talk to anyone. (Score:5, Insightful)
better check your calculations....
weight of lawyer: 200 lbs
weight of lawyer: 2,916.67 troy ounces
price of gold : $1,246.72 USD per troy ounce
worth of lawyer : $3,636,270.82 USD
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Actually that's about right according to the tables used by insurance companies.
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The moment they make accusations against you is the moment you should stop working for them.
Hell yeah. Instead of "Oh dear, it looks like someone stole your identity! Let our legal dept. help you clean that up." they instead went right to: "You're suspended. Oh, and we'll likely be firing you too, because we're obviously too stupid to do some fact-checking and common sense." My name happens to be ethnically-unique in this area too, but in its country of origin it's as common as "smith" or "jones". A "unique" name is often less unique than people think. I happen to know three of "me" (first
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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He doesn't need to prove it wasn't him. The employer needs to prove it was him.
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It's unlikely the employer has to prove anything at all.
Firing a system administrator is often easier than most employees.
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In criminal court, that's right. But for better or worse, at-will employment means employers can fire us whenever they feel like it. There is no requirement for them to convince a jury we violated something in the employee manual.
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No, they don't. The employer is not a criminal court of law. Rational suspicion of wrongdoing is enough to can someone.
And if he can't afford a lawyer to defend against this, what are the odds he can come up with one for a wrongful dismissal action?
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> This one isn't even close.
> Ignore every advice in this thread except the ones that tell you to get a lawyer.
Use your judgment. Don't "ignore every advice" because someone on slashdot said so.
> That's what they're for.
When there is a legal conflict requiring expert representation -- THAT is what lawyers are for. If you can avoid the issue, you can avoid the lawyer. Sorry, lawyers.
> Both you and your employer will be thankful your did.
Your employer will NEVER be thankful you got a lawyer. T
Forget the lawyer - you're hosed. (Score:5, Insightful)
The lawyer will tell you basically that, unlike criminal cases, where you have to be shown to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, that in civil matters, the indicators of your innocence have to be more than the indicators of your guilt.
It's called "the balance of probabilities." So far, the balance of the probabilities, based on the "evidence", is all in their favour.
You've already told them you didn't do it. Your best option now, unless you live in a jurisdiction that isn't "at will", is to conserve your resources while you look for another job. If this were a small enough business that the people around you would find it totally out of character for you to do this, you wouldn't be in this situation right now - they would have believed you. As it is, they don't, and worse, they can't afford to back down at this point.
Pick your fights. You've told them you didn't do it - now tell them you're not comfortable working for a place that calls you a liar and you want to discuss a severance package that includes an agreement that you were RIF'ed if anyone should ask for references. Because even if you prove you didn't do it, your job there is history, and at some level you know this is true. Besides, do you want to work for a place that calls you a liar and a crook?
I'm not being mean here, even though the tone might come across as such - it's because you really need a bucket of water (or a brick) to the face to make you realize that you're in a no-win situation. It's the same "wake up and smell the coffee" advice I'd give to my closest friends if they were in the same situation. It sucks, but so does life in general. We can't change that, but we can change how we react to it. We can either stew on it, and let it turn into acid that eats through our guts and permeates our life and our personality, or we can move on.
We all know people who, a decade later, still won't stop talking about someone who screwed them over at EVERY occasion. Try it - go on a dinner date with someone who's divorced - sometimes it's like their ex is sitting at the table with you ... you want to say "you're obviously not over them. Maybe you two should get back together if you like arguing about each others actions so much. Call me when you're really single."
This is the same situation. Nobody, not a lawyer, not anyone on slashdot, can change what's happened. What we can do is give you the encouragement to help you deal with the situation in the most efficient, least destructive, way, both professionally and personally, and help you rebuild. The lawyer won't do that - their first interest is $$$. Before it's finished, this case will cost you a minimum of $20k, and probably a lot more.
If you can handle the legal stuff yourself, my advice would be a bit different, but not by much. Some things it's just best to agree to disagree, tell them that you've thought about it, and when they find the culprit, you'd like to be kept in the loop, that you won't use that info to hold them responsible, and if there's anything you can do to help, just call, and that you understand they're only trying to protect their business and the other employees, and then move on. You'll keep your respect and earn theirs. It's a small world. You never know, they may call back in a few years with good news - you should keep that door open.
I've had bosses who are dicks - even after I've quit, I tell them that if there's a problem, call me. They might be too proud to admit they made a mistake, but the smarter ones are not too proud to take my advice when they're stuck, and I'm not too proud to refuse to help them.
Re:Forget the lawyer - you're hosed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Now is also the best time to negotiate - the longer this is not addressed, the more set in stone everything becomes.
A lawyer cannot show him he was wronged by the company - the company has acted legally. The party who wronged him was the scammer. The company has no legal liability for the acts of any 3rd party they don't have a business or contractual relationship with.
Eventually, either the domain is going to be used, or abandoned.
So he sends, by snail mail, a notice to the registrar telling them that the email address information is not valid, and to please transfer it to his soon-to-be former employer, along with a copy to his former employer. The registrar will ask for government photo id confirming his mailing address and name, and transfer the domain. What's the big deal? No need for a lawyer.
What happens after that is anyone's guess, but the employer doesn't have to take him back, since this doesn't prove that someone else registered the domain. My advice stands - cut your losses, because there will always be suspicion, and the next time something happens, guess who the #1 suspect is going to be.
None of this requires a lawyer, just common sense, and the cost of a couple of registered letters and a few photocopies. The well is poisoned. If he does what I suggest, he will be seen as acting in good faith, but that is all that can be done. No lawyer will be able to "prove" anything - that's simply not their job, and in this case, probably not possible anyways, so he'll be blowing between $20k and $50k for nothing.
It's like a bad marriage - who cares who's right? The relationship is over, it's too poisoned to recover from. Sure, you can spend a ton of money "proving" you're right. All that will get you is more debts. Lawyers love this - people spending hundreds of dollars an hour arguing who gets custody of a half-empty bottle of dish-washing detergent (true case that finally caused one lawyer to decide to quit family law altogether).
Like I said, pick your battles. It's not YOUR $20k-$50k to prove nothing. My way, at least the domain confusion is ended. A lawyer wouldn't think of that, and would charge a 4-figure retainer before even sending the registered mail.
Pick up the biography of any famous retired lawyer who can speak honestly - they'll tell you that lawyers are for the most part lazy, stupid, unprepared, and greedy. Or search for "lawyer billable minutes scam".
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Since the snail-mail address info matches, all he has to do is send an email to the registrar (cc to his bosses) saying that the email address is bogus, and that he wants the domain transferred to his employer. They will ask for proof of identity (government photo id like a drivers license) and then transfer the domain. How hard is that? the process can be started tonight, the snail mail sent tomo
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We dont know Indian work place laws or legal system.
It's Indiana, the U.S. City, not the country of India.