Ask Slashdot: What OS For a Donated Computer? 360
chefwear writes "I am thinking of donating retired computers to a local charity for kids. What OS do you think would be best for this? From reading tips regarding the donation of computers, it's widely recommended to keep with the currently installed OS (which is Windows XP in this case). Since XP will be unsupported in about two years, I'm not sure I would be setting the little ones up for success. Would anyone suggest donating a computer with a Linux distro like Ubuntu to a local charity for kids?"
Depends for what (Score:5, Insightful)
In which context and for what should it be donated?
Re: (Score:3)
the second question should be if the donating is some fire-and-forget action.
are you willing to support the charity? or do you just dump some old hardware at their place? for the second case the pre-installed XP is probably better (I use this word loosely), if you (or another volunteer) is able to assist with software issues a user-friendly Linux (like Ubuntu LTS) would help the charity to use the computers for a long time.
Also in the case of Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Be ready to do some real support. You may not find it very different form Windows but they will. That is just life, they aren't computer people. Be ready to have plenty of training to do. If you aren't willing to do that, then consider just leaving XP on them. You aren't doing them favours if you give them systems they can't handle and say "Too bad, your problem now!"
Also make sure Linux supports everything they want to do. If it is just web surfing and e-mail, no problem. However if they want to run special educational software, it may be Windows only. If that's the case, XP may be what is needed. Remember that "You don't need that," or "Well there might be OSS that is kinda like it," is never an acceptable phrase. Unless you can find something that they are happy with as a replacement, it isn't a replacement.
Just make sure that if you give them a Linux system, it will be workable for them. While a supported OS is always the best way to go, an unsupported OS won't necessarily be horrible. If the firewall is enabled and people don't use it as an administrator, it could be a long time before there is a real security issue.
Also keep in mind how long the hardware will last or is going to be used. XP will have patches for another 2.5 years (April 8, 2014 is when it stops). Will the systems still likely be running much after that?
There isn't a right way to do this, depends on the situation. So decide if you are willing to support it (or if they have a support guy that handles Linux, which is unlikely), and if so then find out if you can meet their needs with Linux. If not, put XPSP3 on them, patch it, harden it to the extent possible, install security software like MSE, and call it good.
Re: (Score:2)
Also keep in mind how long the hardware will last or is going to be used. XP will have patches for another 2.5 years (April 8, 2014 is when it stops).
Meanwhile, the current Ubuntu LTS desktop release will only be supported until April 2013. I use Ubuntu myself, but this decision seems like a no-brainer to me.
Really (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
... and they could probably live with an unsupported OS for a couple more years after EOL. If the computer is already that old that it's being donated (being cynical, I know, but it certainly seems to be the case), then how long after another 2.5 years do you really think is necessary?
I hate to say it, but while I use Ubuntu as my desktop I have three other desktops in the house - two kids and a wife, and they are all using XP because that's what they want. If you donate a computer to some children's char
Re: (Score:2)
If your giving computers to a charity, its likely that the people who end up using the machines are doing so because they don't normally have access to computers, in which case they will be unfamiliar with whatever you put on them...
That said, linux is a better choice because its more complete/usable by default, more difficult to screw up, much safer on the internet by default and you can run a modern version for free. Also linux will encourage them to learn the system in depth if they so desire (and kids a
Re: (Score:2)
Also linux will encourage them to learn the system in depth if they so desire (and kids are naturally inquisitive)
People who grow up to be computer geeks are naturally inquisitive about computers. Most kids are more inquisitive about girls' breasts or how to break someone's arm.
Rather insulting (Score:2)
Implying that kids are no different than beat-down, corporatized, cubicle dwellers that are told not to think for themselves. Kids are still unfettered by exposure to hide-bound companies run by dicks asking about the TPS reports, so they won't need as much hand-holding as you seem to imply. In fact; the less exposure to Windows they have, the more quickly they will excell (no pun intended) with Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
"Be ready to do some real support. You may not find it very different form Windows but they will"
That's a load of FUD. I've installed close to a dozen Linux machines in the past year for kids and adults and about as many Windows ones. The support is the same. If anything, it's much easier for Linux because I just point them to the software repository and they can install anything they want with a click. With Windows it's a chore of disks and selections. For example, on the Ubuntu Linux systems I've insta
Re: (Score:2)
and if you don't happen to have the generic windows installed, you'll also have to maintain the dozen of entirely different preinstalled crapware utilities for each pc brand. Compare that to having the same environment and compatible config files with linux no matter which the architecture is. Old but perfectly useful Powerpc macs come to mind.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Also in the case of Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Most charities that accept computers (at least in this city) will wipe the hard drive and install their own anyway... they need to make sure they aren't being presented with pirated software or viruses, and that's the easiest way to do it. The licenses that MS offers to charities are dirt cheap (in some cases free), so it just makes sense for them to install their own.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Depends for what (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of games and educational software is Windows only.
Then I wonder what exactly is installed in Edubuntu - which is a linux distro specifically designed for education
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Does not compute... He didn't say there's NO educational software available on Linux. Only that most such software (and games) are Windows-only. Which is certainly true.
And while it may be fine to say that there are Linux alternatives for some educational apps, good luck having a kid find the Linux alternative to the particular app that comes with the book used in the class or the one which his school/teacher requires that he use. But let's say the kid does find the Linux alternative. Unless that alternativ
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A) office. Libre office works PERFECTLY as long as they save
Re: (Score:2)
I don't necessarily disagree re: OpenOffice/LibreOffice/whateverit'scalledtoday. It is pretty good in saving most basic stuff in vanilla .doc although I wouldn't call it perfect. I've never used the spreadsheet and presentation apps, so I can't speak to those but let's assume that they are also good enough for the majority of school work.
The problem is that this isn't the only suite of apps that kids have to use for school work, your sisters' experience notwithstanding. Some of those apps, luckily, are done
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Depends for what (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not that old (graduated form uni this year), and the only software we had that was 'needed' was avaliable in linux (with some exceptions such as Visual Studio).
We had people who came to uni with macbooks, and they did ok.
I don't know how common it is for young children to REQUIRE certain software - which isn't a webapp. Even many of the companion cds/websites came with stuff which opened with everything.
Similarly, I hardly expect the teacher to expect homework to be done using some particular software.If the pdf/doc comes from LO or MO it makes no difference.
So when they said "Educational software" I thought he meant "Stuff your kiddies use to teach themselves". What I mean is, if you want software to teach kids something, you'll find one on linux. If you need a PARTICULAR piece of software, that's different. I admit that.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a very good question. One that they don't seem to be willing to answer on their website. Even googling for "list of software installed in edubuntu" came up with nothing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to download a LiveCD just to boot up and actually *check* what's installed.
What I do know about are programs like Stellarium [wikipedia.org], Inkscape [wikipedia.org], and LibreOffice [wikipedia.org]. Notice that those are all available for Windows? Even the KDE Education Project [kde.org] is available for Windows. That's to say nothing of the wealth of progr
Re: (Score:2)
That's a very good question. One that they don't seem to be willing to answer on their website.
Really? [edubuntu.org]
Re:Depends for what (Score:4, Interesting)
My sister is the Principal for a small private school, ~80 students or so. With the exception of a few (2 or 3) students who have Macbooks, the staff and students all run Linux for their primary OS. This came about after one of their Windows boxes got rooted and became a spam relay, resulting in Time-Warner shutting down their net access with no warning in the middle of a school day - and net access is something which is absolutely a requirement for schools to have these days.
My sister called me, I found the rooted boxes, wiped/fresh installed them, and got TW to restore their access. Then I cleaned the rest of the Windows boxes on site, and set them all up as dual-boot machines. I used to have to go to her school 3-4 times a year to clean up some Win system that had become unusable, but not in the last 2 years since they've gone all-Linux. Showed my sister how to install with a LiveCD, and when a student gets a new computer, she installs Linux alongside whatever Windows is on the laptop, and the student understands that they are forbidden to use the Win partition while on the school network.
The *only* reason Windows remains on any systems at the campus is that there is one testing site which uses Active-X; it is accessed once a year on testing day, under supervision in their 'CS lab'.
Number of rooted boxes since Windows was replaced: 0
Number of times TW has shut down the schools net access since Linux became the primary OS: 0
Number of times I have had to travel an hour to clean viruses. trojans, worms, etc from the Linux machines: 0
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
if being donated for a child to OWN the system, then i agree. but if it will be used an education environment then i think ubuntu would be a better option. they don't need "most games" in that environment. further, kids shouldn't grow up thinking windows is the only option that exists, and the "educational" software available on linux (for free no less) is vastly more available/abundant than on windows. plus, i would imagine that for most /. readers the first experience they had with computers was DOS, at least having to start everything from it. the idea that a modernized linux distro would be too complicated for them is somewhat ridiculous.
Then again why not just donate the system as close as factory as possible, with the bare bones Win XP install. If the owner doesn't want to use Windows then they can install whatever *nix OS they want.
It depends... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If you're being realistic, non-computer-geeks don't know jack shit about Linux, and don't have the time or desire to learn. Nobody will want to bother with some wierd OS that they can't buy software for at Wal-Mart.
Without some flavor of Windows on it, the PC will end up being used as a door stop. The very things that Linux is best at, is the same things that regular (non-computer) people never do.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, if it's for programming lessons, Ubuntu might be a good choice though. So I guess it still depends.
If it's just to get them bootstrapped on "using a computer", windows will be best.
Another point for Ubuntu is that if it suits their needs, they can install it on any other computer they might have at no cost. Hence, however fragmented their PC install base might be, they'll be able to level it with a consistent OS across the board.
Re: (Score:2)
For a beginner, this is not a problem. A "good" programming environment isn't a fancy IDE. It's a text editor and a command line with access to multiple compilers. Linux and OSX rule the roost here, as they both come with multiple compilers and interpreters out of the box. New languages are a little easier to obtain for Linux using the repository system.
Windows isn't completely in the dark. For instance, you can get the intel reference compiler for free, I think. The experience is more piecemeal, thou
Re: (Score:2)
To be perfectly fair, most open source / free modern compilers exist for Windows: gcc, java, perl, php, python, etc...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Suuuure. Like having a fun teacher is not important when you're a kid: what counts is having a total nerd that can spew unintelligible formulas for hours.
Re: (Score:2)
Linux and OSX rule the roost here, as they both come with multiple compilers and interpreters out of the box.
Out of the box Windows comes with a JScript interpreter, VBScript interpreter, C# compiler, VB.NET compiler, and JScript compiler. A late enough Windows will also have Powershell interpreter and IDE.
Windows isn't completely in the dark. For instance, you can get the intel reference compiler for free, I think. The experience is more piecemeal, though, I think.
You can also get the free Microsoft command line C++ compiler that comes with the Windows SDK. This is the same compiler that Visual C++ uses. Or you can just get Visual Studio Express, because IDEs do not actually make things harder. IDEs give you error and syntax highlighting, visual layout of user interface (
Re:It depends... (Score:5, Insightful)
non-computer-geeks don't know jack shit about Linux
They don't know jack shit about windows either; but if there's a desktop shortcut for The Internet, they'll be fine :-P
Re: (Score:2)
-As long as all they wanted it for was to use the internet. :>|
In the ads I've seen for charities asking for PC's, they almost always say that the PC's need to have a valid license for the Windows OS that is on it. Go and try to donate a Linux-only PC to some place and see what they say.
And regarding monitors,,,, the local Goodwill stores will not even accept CRT's anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They don't know jack shit about windows either; but if there's a desktop shortcut for The Internet, they'll be fine :-P
I second that. This seems to be lost on many people here at Slashdot. If these people knew anything about computers, they wouldn't have the security issues with Windows either. Windows 7 at least is an excellent piece of software (the marketing, monopolizing practices of its creator company notwithstanding). If you have clueless users , any system is going to be underthreat - Windows just happens to have about 90% of those clueless users simply because of its ubiquity.
Re: (Score:2)
Until they need some software and popping in the CD or double-clicking setup.exe won't work. Or anything else where you get a paint-by-the-numbers guide for the computer illiterate that's only good on Windows (and maybe OS X). And it's probably easier to find volunteers with a little bit of Windows knowledge than Linux knowledge when they need it. Not even a Linux system is that "fire and forget" that this doesn't matter.
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit, it's been brainless to use ubuntu since at least hardy. For people who have never used a computer before, ubuntu or mint is much much easier to learn than windows from scratch. Trust me, I've seen it. Though she doesn't use a computer often, I set my grandmother up with xubuntu 8.04 on the desktop years ago. Solid as a rock, been working ever since, and she's had no trouble either. With some flavor of windows on it though, it could easily become a doorstop to someone who doesn't know anything abou
Re: (Score:2)
mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mountpoint
Comon that's not that hard really. Either you're not trying that hard or you're trolling.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure it depends.
The charity may wipe all donated computes and install a sit license from scrach. In which case, the OS doesn't matter.
The charity may be selling the computer at auction or in a thrift store. In that case, a legal license of the most recent version of Windows would be best.
The charity may be using it administratively. In that case, it should be running whatever best runs their office apps.
The charity may use it as a dumb terminal putting up a slide show in their lobby. In that case, the OS ha
Re: (Score:2)
If these kids are being given computers by a charity, chances are its because they can't afford to buy one themselves... As such, will know jack shit about anything computer related.
Similarly they won't have much money, so they aren't going to be buying software for it at walmart.. They will be using software that is free, wether that means pirated or freely distributable probably won't matter to them.
Also, the idea of buying software at walmart is antiquated, why would anyone want to do that when they have
Re: (Score:3)
I would still prefer a novice to use Win XP, how does it matter if it is going to be un-supported, unless the charity people are going to install all latest and greatest software/games.
security patches? that is actually the reason i moved my little brother from illegal XP to legal Vista. It may suck as an OS, but at least you get continued patches, free AV from MS, and a somewhat sane user/rights system. On of the main concerns when letting joe sixpack loose on a pc is making that box as hard to infect/ruin as possible, even if it means sacrificing some speed/comfort.
I had my father running Kubuntu for half a year. This was a man who's most advanced computer experience involved windows 98
Re: (Score:2)
IOW, even with you as his system administrator - a knowledgeable, experienced person, I assume - you still switched back to XP.
Now look at it in the context that the computer gets donated and chefwear probably has no more contact with the machine at all, unable to set it up for anyone in particular, and guess whether XP or Linux will be more useful. There's still a couple years of updates, and even if OS updates stop becoming available, that doesn't mean free anti-virus software won't get the latest defini
Re: (Score:2)
The only reason we moved him back to XP was some odd hardware/software conflict causing repeated crashes which i couldnt figure out in a timely manner.
RTFM noob.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Dualboot? (Score:3, Interesting)
Licensing? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would install Ubuntu or some other free operating system. Main reason being licensing, with Ubuntu they'll get a current operating system and future updates and I don't have to worry about whether the XP license was part of a family pack and I can't even give it away, or whether it's an OEM license that prevents them from modifying the hardware, etc.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
but any of the more popular Linux distro keeps on pumping out security updates and will likely do so for years to come.
ROFL, XP may be nearing the end of it's lifecycle but should keep getting security updates until april 2014. Afaict ubuntu lucid will stop getting security updates for desktop software in april 2013.
If you want long support lifecycles on linux you really need to get into RHEL and it's rebuilds.
Lucid updates stop in 2013, but then you upgrade for free to 13.04. So that's no problem, except maybe for Unity. Still I would go for XP. When it's 2014, the PC will probably be too old anyway.
Re: (Score:3)
Ubuntu, but keep XP as well? (Score:5, Insightful)
XP is still very much relevant - much to Microsoft's chagrin - regardless of its expiration date. The machine comes with a (OEM) license, presumably, so why waste it?
At the same time, might as well expose them to a Linux distribution that at least has scores of layman support, such as Ubuntu.
So why not set up a dual-boot system?
Well... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Virtualization? This is an xp era machine, those usually don't go beyond Pentium 4 era stuff. It's damn near impossible to get ubuntu running with any kind of speed in a VM unless you've got pretty nice specs which probably wouldn't exist or be any kind of common pre-2006.
I would put Ubuntu (Score:3)
Windows XP needs expert maintenance to keep it running properly. You need to install antivirus and keep it updated, you need to run Windows Update, you need to keep various software packages up to date (and they all have their own ways to update). Printers and such all support XP, but you have to figure out where to get the driver and which one to use; whereas with Ubuntu the driver support isn't 100%, but the stuff that does work will really Just Work with no fussing. (Where I work, there is a networked printer that Ubuntu talks to perfectly, and it took well over an hour to get it working under Windows 7. And I had to install some wacky HP software that I really hate, to get it to go.) And even if you do everything right, after a few years the system will get kind of slow and bogged down, at which time you should really do a bare-metal reinstall to speed things up again.
Ubuntu should run well on any computer from the "Designed for XP" era. It has one unified package manager. The Ubuntu Software Center is a place where kids can get stuff for free, and it's legal and it won't be malware.
When I give away computers, I put Ubuntu on them. (Sometimes I also put Windows on them, if the person getting them has a need for Windows. But kids have no actual need for Windows, and Ubuntu works great.)
steveha
Re: (Score:2)
I'm in favor of putting linux on this computer, but ubuntu will not run on any computer with a "Designed for XP" sticker. I doubt you could run it with any kind of efficiency with less than 1GB of RAM and a pentium 4 or maybe high end pentium 3. XP stretches back further than that.
Re: (Score:2)
XP as it shipped originally is a lot less resource hungry than the current iteration with all service packs applied... It's unlikely that those early XP machines will run the current version adequately either, and an install of XP with no service packs is a totally irresponsible thing to use.
Re: (Score:3)
Are you serious?
The first dual-core Pentiums (805, 630, 930, etc) shipped with "Designed for XP" stickers, and the early Core systems did as well...
Ubuntu & other Linux reach back to PII era CPUs and run acceptably, for people with time on their hands. A P3 system with a gig of RAM is a usable Linux desktop.
Re: (Score:3)
Printers and such all support XP, but you have to figure out where to get the driver and which one to use; whereas with Ubuntu the driver support isn't 100%, but the stuff that does work will really Just Work with no fussing.
So essentially what you're saying is "Plug anything into XP and it's going to work. But you might have to put in a CD that came with the thing, or go to the manufacturer's webpage. However with Ubuntu it's a crapshoot that anything you plug in will work, and there's really no guarantee that there's a driver for it, but in the off chance there is a driver it's going to be a good one."
Humble Suggestion (Score:2)
Do them a favor and put FreeBSD on it. Configure it beforehand so everything works; they won't even be able to figure out how to break it, and if they can even manage to do that, then they'll have learned enough to fix it.
A desktop linux distro is a perfect choice. (Score:2)
Business (Score:2)
Businesses are almost totally Windows based. It is only when you get into the server room that you'll find Linux. So if you're setting someone up to work with Windows in later life that would be the choice. But there may be a lot more tablet use in 10 years.
But I used an Amiga up until about 1998 and on that I learned how to program C and other things. It's not held back my knowledge of Windows.
Re: (Score:2)
You started out on a platform that encouraged you to learn, windows actively discourages curiosity and learning... People who start on non windows platforms tend to have no trouble adapting to other systems, but those who start on windows tend to become pigeonholed.
Businesses today may use windows, but when i went to school businesses were using dos, mainframes, and some old unix machines etc. It's pointless for kids of today to get stuck on windows, especially a version that is already out of date. When th
Leave XP but lock them down (Score:2)
If the computers are only to be used for web browsing then any OS will do of course, but I'm assuming that the people you donate the computers to will buy printer X or webcam Y tomorrow and expect it to work after inserting the cd that comes in the box. Linux is excellent until you pop in a windows driver cd...
So I recommend leaving XP on there, just make sure security settings are ok, MSE is installed, use chrome for browsing, make a recovery partition and a simple bare-metal restore procedure etc. etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Most half decent printers will just work with linux, without needing to insert a cd. I don't even have CD readers in most of my machines.
More information needed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Moe info is needed. I had to do something similar when my employer got rid of a lot of old machines. they went to different places, and for each, I evaluated certain criteria.
Who will be administering these machines? This might make the decision easy for you, it might not BE your decision if there's a competent admin in the organization there who will of course have their own ideas. They may use the product keys the machines came with, they may have their own distro they want to standardize on, or they may even qualify for one of the cheap or free site licenses that Microsoft offers to NPOs.
As others have asked, what will the machines be used for? If it's 100% for the web, any OS will do, and it's a question of what will be easiest to maintain. Install the OS, lock it down good, install Firefox or Chrome in terminal mode and you're golden.
If you have any expectation that the staff or kids will want to install their own applications, you're almost certainly better off with XP - end of life or not. WINE is probably not something you want to get into with folks who don't understand computers well enough to administer them on their own.
Remember, just because it's a charity for local kids doesn't necessarily mean anything. Kids might not ever get anywhere near these machines. They could go to an admin who does the finances. One of the PCs we donated went to a charity for Cerebral Palsy where it's being used for fund raising. It's running Razor's Edge on XP.
The best thing to do is ask how they expect to use the machines. Then figure out how to set them up based on that (If they don't have their own people).
Kids = computer games (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Will the kids want to play computer games? Of course, they are kids, what else are computers for at that age? That means XP.
2) Who will help them with the computer? Answer: other kids, parents and teachers. I bet your bottom dollar kids will get much better teaching from others with XP compared to Ubuntu, purely because of the install base and general familiarity.
3) Is the 2 year limit on XP relevant? Of course not, in 2 years as an XP machine it'll be due for a re-install anyway (if not before).
Helios (Score:3)
It might be worth taking a look at the Helios Project, (Website: http://www.heliosinitiative.org/ [heliosinitiative.org] , Blog of bloke running it: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com] ), as this is exactly what they do, collect together donated PCs and stuff, and provide refurbished PCs with Linux on to people on a charitable basis (predominantly disadvantaged kids I believe). (And they do some training etc as well I think).
Anyway, a lot of the postings on their have been quite interesting over the years, and I think they currently use either Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
Just wipe the thing and supply the disks (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A clean install of an OS allows the recipient to easily test that the box functions, and allows the donor to confirm it is fully-functional (I.e. the optical drive works, etc,). I would perform an install on systems I donate, but I wouldn't expect it to remain on the system.
If its for Education... (Score:2)
I'd suggest Edubuntu
https://edubuntu.org/about [edubuntu.org]
I never used it myself although there's a 'try it now' which lets you run it over the internet and get a look at it.
Debian made to look like windows (Score:2)
I comes stable so its less likely updates breaking something and then no one being around to fix it. The issue i see with Ubuntu is if no one knows how to maintain it it could get stuck with some buggy package or unity if someone mucks it up.
Just if you did use Debian be nice and get Ice Weasel tracking the current version of Firefox having anyone still using 3.5 is cruel.
Dual Boot! (Score:3)
As long as the PCs have 40GB or more of disk space, just install Ubuntu side by side with XP, with the latter as the first choice in GRUB.
This gives them a familiar environment (XP), but lets curious kids explore Linux if they're interested.
Apple iOS (Score:3, Funny)
And with the vast number of apps available for any possible purpose, whether for business, education or pleasure, there really is no better platform for choice.
So, all in all, it has to be Apple iOS for freedom, choice and thinking of the children who are our future.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you serious? Normally I would assume not, but this is slashdot. If you are, what would you suggest he do with his old machines? Doorstops?
Clean install? (Score:3)
I wouldn't give anyone a system with an existing OS. You should scrub the drive and install fresh. Particularly with XP or other strains of Windows, there's no telling what might be crawling around in an old system. Even with Linux, are you certain you've found every trace of your old pr0n collection and deleted it?
Re: (Score:2)
there's no telling what might be crawling around in an old system
Which is why a lot of charities wipe by default. What's their liability if you install windows, a windows keylogger, donate to them, and now you identify theft someone?
Just stick to Windows XP and Deep Freeze (Score:2)
What age kids? (Score:2)
For elementary school age kids, whatever OS you install will be obsolete by the time they graduate middle school, let alone high school or college. Same for current middle school kids.
WinXP is an anomaly for it's lifespan - it retains almost 50% of the total desktop market after what, almost ten years of use?
For kids, especially young kids, it is about supporting not just web browsers, but 10+ year-old software written for WinXP and earlier OSes. Besides, you can only donate OSes you have a legal right to i
Why are you asking Slashdot? (Score:2)
Why are you asking Slashdot? Are you donating them to Slashdot? Maybe you should take this up with whoever you're donating to.
Ubuntu (Score:3)
I have five kids (4 daughters, 1 son) and about the same number of computers in the house. Here is what I've learned:
Windows computers, no matter what version become unusable after six months due to kids installing stuff that includes three metric tons of crapware. If you remove the ability to install, you remove the ability to learn to manage the computer, which kind of defeats the purpose of letting your kids have a computer to begin with. When things go wrong, Dad is out 4-8 hours, usually re-installing everything on the laptop.
Macs work well, but are too expensive to let a 13 year old throw in the backpack, get stolen at the school library, etc... a $400 PC is not nearly as likely to grow legs because it will sell for $200 on the street. A $1300 Mac will get $900, which buys a lot of mind altering chemicals. When things go wrong, Dad is out 10-30 minutes.
Linux works fine. The kids like Kubuntu because they can customize everything (KDE4 is good at that), can access everything (Konqueror and Dolphin are amazing) and the browsers (Chrome, FireFox, Reconq and Opera) are all fine. OpenOffice is well suited to K-12 use, and Inkscape and Gimp are fantasic. There is no IE to fsck everthing up to hell. System administration is surprisingly not that big of a deal. It's pretty cool when they tell you, "Dad, I wanted to learn 3d so I found this thing called blender and here's what I made." When things go wrong, Dad is out 10-15 minutes, tops, and can usually SSH in and fix the problem.
Distro for kids (Score:2)
Ask them (Score:2)
I'm going to suggest something revolutionary. I know this is a Slashdot flame war about operating systems but here's my two suggestions:
1) Ask someone at the charity what they would like to have on the computer.
or
2) Donate whatever you would be happier giving to them.
In either case you should follow the advice above about formatting the drive. You never know if there are cached credit card numbers or something else that could get you into serious trouble, so you should always format. Depending on whether
What's the harm in XP? (Score:2)
Since XP will be unsupported in about two years, I'm not sure I would be setting the little ones up for success.
Where is this concern grounded? Is XP going to just go away in two years? Is there a Linux distribution that can better familiarize kids with how to use a PC than XP can? Will learning on XP somehow set them up for failure/trouble?
If anything, I'd be more concerned about the people (if anyone) who will be expected to support the donated PCs. A lot of these donations go to organizations rather
Linux vs XP (Score:2)
The conclusion? XP needs constant attention, but none of them are critical and you can do it every 6 months and you will be OK.
Linux, just works, but she has no chance to add anything to it. Printer works, but the scanner doesn't, USB 3G no go,
There is no winner or loser, just differences.
only if the charity could also provide some traini (Score:3)
So, if the charity has a small base of volunteers and they could be trained on the basics and some were willing to learn more, something like Ubuntu would be perfect. The charity could use LTSP to set up a multi-seat training room or labs and if they were REALLY into it, all the installed systems could have their software update system set to the charities server for updates but not really needed unless there were lots of customization.
Without the basic training, the charity would get calls like "where is the D drive when I put my CD in?". But with Edubuntu and the KDE education packages along with others I think a Kubuntu installation would be a very good solution. And unlike a Windows system, they would not be taught to pirate proprietary software because they can't afford it, they would be taught to look for and try out different free solutions and can do so from the 10s of thousands of free software packages out there.
LoB
Avoid anything that has a EULA (Score:3)
If you subscribe to (now government-backed, thanks Blizzard) view that software EULAs are enforceable and software copies that come with EULAs don't have their titles transferred, then your "gift" of a computer will also come with contractual obligations upon the user that they never opted into and don't have the power to opt out of (except by replacing the OS). Furthermore, they probably won't even know what those obligations are, since you will be clicking through the 52-page "I agree" screen instead of the children reading it carefully and clicking "I agree" to indicate the child's fully informed consent to the binding contract.
(If this sounds totally fucked up, don't blame me.)
Doing this to anyone would hardly be "charitable," and doing it to children who don't even have a chance of understanding all the risks, would be even less so. Thus, you might want to avoid that if you're thinking in terms of charities.
Re: (Score:2)
If a box will run XP it will run Win 7.
Sigh. Perhaps you've heard of the phrase bullshit? I doubt it. I can install XP on a pentium 2 or 3 with 384-512Mb of RAM and it will run perfectly. Good fucking luck getting 7 to run, it can barely scale down to the Atom, which is actually somewhat more powerful than a pentium 4. Not that there's anything wrong with that- well there is to me, but windows bloat is just what you deserve for running it. But don't go astroturfing with broad statements like that.
Re: (Score:2)
And I really hope that it isn't less than a pentium 4, I didn't even consider the fact that it could be, in which case just land fill it.
That is not helpful, I have a Pentium 3 laptop which works fine with Xubuntu. Why should I want to throw it away? It would be perfectly fine as a main computer for a kid or for a charity to use for basic computer tasks. Just because a computer doesn't have several Gb of RAM and a quad core processor doesn't mean it can't be used for web browsing, sending emails, word processing or spreadsheets.
Youu were doing quite well as a pro-Windows advocate until that last line.
Re: (Score:2)
So what if they do? It is not like kids are using the system to run enterprise level apps. And XP isn't really that easy to crash. Over the past decade I have seen more Linux, OS X, Solaris crases then XP.
Besides if they have some old games they want to run on it all the better
Re: (Score:3)
Oh dear ... we asked a bunch of nerds which OS is best for a group of people they can't relate to.
Re:Yes to Linux-GNU Apps and Games (Score:2)
Only one OS (Linux, Win...) experience/admin indicates a dangerous user. Crashes happen. Easy Recovery? (Linux-GNU...).
For learning, extensibility, forward-compatibility, flexibility, copyrights/law, cost, interoperability, infrastructure, hardware lifecycle, games ....
IMO: Linux-GNU is best for schools.
Donating retired computers to a local charity for kids all the above needs to be considered. Most Microsoft/closed-source products will (initially and over time) be to costly for the charity and limit kids
Re: (Score:2)
Except when some adult with minimal computing experience - which is most likely some flavor of windows, is the "administrator," then an Ubuntu box with a problem sits in a corner unused while an XP box gets a re-install or free anti-virus software or something.
The answer is quite simple: chefwear should simply ask them what they want. If that's not possible, or the people he asks simply don't know, then I think the implication is clear - they'd be more comfortable with something popular like XP. It doesn'
Re: (Score:2)
Seconded - it's simple, will run smoothly on older hardware (even down to 128Mb of RAM), but has the full up-to-date Ubuntu kernel. Set it to auto-update, and Bob's your uncle.
Re: (Score:2)
Define "unsupported"...
When XP becomes unsupported, you have to buy a major upgrade.
While XP is still supported, you get minor updates (hot fixes) and major updates (service packs) for free.
Ubuntu works in much the same way, you get minor updates and major updates (which are called released), all of which are free.
If you assume "unsupported" to mean "no more free updates" then even the earliest version of Ubuntu is actually still supported and will continue to be.
Incidentally, XP with no service packs is no
Re: (Score:2)
Crap, I modded you Overrated instead of Funny, replying to reset your score. :(
Re: (Score:2)
Lol lets give kids Ubuntu, mind as well give them the fucking large hadron collider, they'd be able to use that just as well as ubuntu, and the staff, or lord the fucking staff would flip a major bitch...... If the charity workers cant use ubuntu what are you going to expect children to do with it?
Teach the adults how to use it?
Kids are easily more adaptable then adults. Its why you want to teach language to children, they'll learn it better/easier then an adult will.
Re: (Score:2)
of course not xp. or anything with MS.
Ubuntu FOR SURE. I mean think about it. easily detectable hardware.. you can download software and start using them from the ubuntu software center.. it's beautifully structured. It's pretty. and It's linux at the end of the day!
So yes, please, ubuntu! spread the open source world. please. that questino shouldn't have even crossed your mind!! that's why i'm the only one posting a reply.
Dude, most charities and children are not interested in the philosophical benefits of open source software.