How Do You Educate a Prodigy? 659
Nethead writes "When he was 8 years old, Gabriel See got a score on the math part of the SAT that would be the envy of most high-school seniors. When he was 10, he worked on T-cell receptor research at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. He's built a Genomic Lab Liquid Handling System out of Legos. He's studied chaos theory, string theory, quantum mechanics and nuclear science. He's 13 now. How do you fit him into the American school system?"
Why fit in? (Score:5, Insightful)
He seems to learn enough on his own.
Re: (Score:3)
Also, I think trying to fit him in to the regular state school system at least would be detrimental. What are the other options? Is private schooling a possibility?
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Why fit in? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why fit in? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like he's much further along than I was, doing calculus at 8? That's quite impressive. I didn't start getting serious about calculus until about 12.
College is indeed a good option, and from the linked article sounds like he already doing that. It's what I did when I was a kid, took a mixture of college classes, ( first one was around 5th grade ), did some internships, some R&D contract work, all while going to elementary, middle and high school. There is nothing like being ending up being a TA for a course and having one of your current teachers be a student for it while still also having them be your teacher. My last year of high school was only classes like gym, and at the time I hated going. Looking back though I'm glad I did.
The one scary thing with this, as others mentioned in their comments, is burn out is a big risk. I know I ended up hating anytime anyone would say something like "Wow. Someday you will do ....". I burned out in grad school. Part of it was probably that I never really had to work at being smart before, "why study -- skimming it once is enough", part of it was that I saw everything else as just trivial details and useless facts in the way of the big pictures, and part of it was the misshapen world view combined with an extra large serving of ego that I had developed.
Normal School will work fine (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Normal School will work fine (Score:4, Informative)
Get him a mentor, and someone to ensure he can socialize normally.
Public schools are not a good choice for a bright kid, and a horrible thing to inflict on a prodigy.
Re: (Score:3)
Subjecting a prodigy to school just to teach him interpersonal skills sounds like a real waste. 8 hours a day of having things like fractions explained would be horrible.
Entirely true. Most of school isn't interacting, it's just sitting there listening to the teacher. It's a terrible waste of time going over something you already know inside and out. I'm no prodigy but managed to get ahead in math at one point, doing a little algebra in 5th grade when it was normally a 7th grade subject. Stuck in the classroom that was reiterating stuff I didn't need, thankfully the teacher was nice enough to let me just read through all of 5th and 6th grade math. Was a waste of class time,
Re: (Score:3)
Send him to soccer camp then.
Re:Normal School will work fine (Score:4, Informative)
Your main challenge will be finding folks close to him in age with home he can interact on a peer level. Not other super-smart kids who may act as sycophants to his uber-super-smartness and not an environment where non-super-smart kids are going to resent him.
Find him a sport, even if it's something obscure like bowling. Or a biking club. Or a boating club. Or the Scouts. Something he can find enjoyable without his smarts either giving him too undue an advantage or engendering hostility in his peers. Specifically, something where he can spend time interacting with other kids his age as peers without his brain getting in the way.
Other than that, he's an obvious candidate for home schooling. Give him the study guides, periodically administer the tests and as long as he aces them let him guide his own education.
Re:Normal School will work fine (Score:4, Informative)
Home schooling was the only sane and humane solution for him. As you say, Cub Scouts, 4-H, and other non-"school" activities give him plenty of time to socialize. It is also important to teach him that not everyone else is as smart as him, and that that is OK. It's a little like being Superman. Having super powers is really cool, and sometimes it will save the day. Most of the time you have to convince the public that you are Clark Kent. Mild mannered reporter for the Daily Planet.
When he was 2 and 3, he had not yet learned that he needed a secret identity, and we found that it made other parents uncomfortable when a he would try to play chess with other 3 year olds, invite them to play video games online with them, or would start coaching their 6 or 7 year olds in reading. When we saw this happening, we spent a little bit of time teaching him how to keep from making the other kids parents feel bad without diminishing himself. ( The other kids never seemed offended. Uninterested in what he was wanting to do sometimes, but never offended.)
One of the things that ends up causing problems for Prodigies is that a good many of them are just early bloomers. So, when they complete the bulk of their education at 12 or 13 and settle into the more normal rate of learning that we have as adults, their parents and mentors see it as a let down. The expect the accelerated learning to continue forever instead of just appreciating it as the head start that it is.
At his current rate, I would expect my son to be able to ace the SATs in approx. 3 more years. If he doesn't achieve that, it is OK. He is just bordering on the level of education that most people graduate from HS with, so he will be fine no matter what. Parents break their Prodigy children. They either drive them at a rate that is unsustainable, they dissuaded them from being smart because they don't want them to burn out or they think that being really smart inherently makes you unable to socialize. Rarely do you see the parents of exceptional children let the children be themselves and learn at the rate the child is comfortable with.
Re:Normal School will work fine (Score:5, Informative)
You raise some good points. It is certain that as your own intelligence increases to where you find yourself smarter than all but a fraction of a percent of the population, the ideas you have will be mostly correct but most other people won't be able to understand you. This can be incredibly frustrating.
Other than restrict yourself to using only your mundane ideas, you need some way for people to take you seriously. This means credentials (e.g. doctor, lawyer, engineer, MBA), and/or it means making enough money that you can afford to hire and fire until you find others who will take you seriously. Or living with other similarly smart people who can understand you. Sucks, but that's the way the world works.
Also, be very careful about uncovering the BS that the average Joe believes in. You will find a lot in life that everyday folks believe which won't stand up to scrutiny. However, think long and hard before you argue against it publicly, as you either face breaking taboos or interfering with the interests of powerful people.
Re: (Score:3)
I think most private systems would be just as detrimental. Most private schools seem less tolerant of non-conformists than public schools. As other suggested - that's college level material that people 5-10 years older than him are studying, and usually only one or two of the topics, not all those listed. The kid needs to be in college for eduction.
For socialization, find local clubs for kids and kids activities. Maybe a sport. Hell, even a church, though caution is needed with that - In my experience, kids
Re:Why fit in? (Score:5, Interesting)
Boy Scouts is good for the socialization, the outdoor experiences, and the service. For someone like this, social development is key. The badges are a joke for anyone remotely intelligent, but the experiences can be excellent. Try to get him involved in the Order of the Arrow through Boy Scouts--one of the largest youth-led organizations in the world, its emphasis on service is helpful to develop in someone.
Also, there are no race-based limitations on membership.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, I believe that's true as a formal matter. But it certainly doesn't have to be Christian.
Re: (Score:3)
"Boy scouts only requirement is that you be non-atheist. I still wouldn't suggest it though. The merit badge requirements are sad busy work. It woudl (sic) be stifling."
I would. The "sad busy work" part teaches independence and self motivation -- which might not be needed for this teen, but the social aspects great -- and many (at least in my son's troop -- and many scouts I've meet over the years) are self-motivated high achievers.
Re: (Score:2)
There is no American Public School System (Score:5, Insightful)
There are 50 states, each with their own rules, not to mention Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico, and other territories and possessions.
Within most states there are dozens to hundreds of local school systems with varying degrees of autonomy. Then there are private schools.
In some school systems education quality varies widely from school to school. Even within schools you can get wide teacher-to-teacher variation and even class-to-class variation with the same teacher, same course, and same grade-level.
Re: (Score:3)
He may in a good school, and placed in gifted classes. But he will be expected to do the normal school world as well, so he will be rewarded with twice as much work and the non-gifted students. A few years of doing additional busywork homework, the stuff the other kids do in class to keep the kids quiet, will break his desire to excel in no time.
Get the kid into a private university ASAP.
Some Anecdotes That Don't Make the News (Score:5, Interesting)
And he kind of burned out. He lives with his brother (my good friend) now and hasn't ever really had a real job. After he completed college, he decided to independently pursue his own interests and sort of realized that the whole educational path he had taken was really him just quickly absorbing other people's works. Striking out on new ground was far too uncomfortable for him. What was worse was that this totally destroyed his confidence. He's never been unhappy with his life but outside of his mother's reach, he's really just kicked back and played video games. I think the greatest work of the last five years of his life has been editing TVTropes -- a site that he became obsessed with after he discovered he could spend all day watching television with no consequence. Jay has never had peers really aside from his brothers. I'm no child psychologist but I think it has had a devastating effect on his understanding on society and also his work ethic.
The other person was a coworker, Tom, who was a very talented software developer. I met him when he was 40 and one time he told me at lunchtime about his childhood. Tom had burned out as well but in a more problematic way. Tom also completed college (Physics) at a very young age but upon having difficulty his senior year, he became depressed and had suicidal thoughts. So his parents flipped out and brought him to a psychologist who diagnosed him with Asperger's Syndrome (which he clearly did not have when I met him) and gave him a bunch of drugs. He discovered he was great at programming software and decided to make a career out of it. He still said his mother's disappointment that he didn't "cure cancer" or discover a universal filed theory was probably the most regrettable thing in his life and it was ever present in their interactions.
"He'll probably find a cure for cancer," Sleight said. "Or something bigger."
I think a more positive statement would be something along the lines of "He has accomplished so much and already done such great research that even if he stopped studying now he would be an accomplished academic." Not to suggest that he should stop studying but to relieve a bit of the pressure. What if he doesn't cure cancer or something bigger? What will this news do to Gabriel the person then? Haunt him?
I would advocate trying to keep him involved in school as much as he desires with external stimulation to help his specialties. Why must geniuses be removed from society? Was Einstein removed from interacting with children his age? What exactly is the hurry? Is Gabriel asking for more time to study -- time that regular schooling is interfering with? Does he have a network of friends to rely on? Is he expected to live a short life like Ramanujan?
My opinion is to let him excel at school and take a more normal path than complete removal and its unavoidable isolation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You Did It to Yourself (Score:5, Interesting)
The point is, someone can be the most intelligent person in the world, but if they have no drive or don't want to achieve greatness, no amount of pushing and prodding is going make them do so.
Re:You Did It to Yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
I was no child prodigy, but I was at the top end of average when I was in grade school. I ended up in a public schools system "Talented and Gifted" program (which I really enjoyed). In 5th grade, my teacher -- who was new to teaching -- had a brilliant idea to allow us to go as far and fast as we could: math class would be entirely self-paced. She gave us the materials to learn, and a program to follow. We would take a pre-test before starting a new chapter, then we were to read the chapter, do the work in that chapter, and take a post-test to verify that we had really learned the material. We would grade our own work, except for the post-test, which she would grade. Being (slightly) above average intelligence, but no more emotionally mature than anyone else in 5th grade, I quickly figured out that I could blow off all the course work, take a few days to goof off, and take a post-test, then proceed to the next chapter.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out how well that worked. For the first few chapters, I pulled it off, but once we got to the new material that I hadn't been exposed to before, I started blowing all the tests. Several phone calls home to my parents later ("I don't understand why Mike is suddenly having so much trouble in math..."), I realized that *saying* I had done the course work and actually *doing* the course work lead to vastly different outcomes...but by then, I had a lot of catching up to do.
Child prodigies often have amazing intellectual skills (more or less by definition, right?), but they typically *don't* have the experience and maturity to understand how society works. It's unrealistic to expect a child to understand how decisions now can impact their life ten or twenty years later. That's why children have and NEED parents. Sure, GPP could do some community college work now to get his grades up and go on to a better school for a BS, MS, or PhD, but cut him some slack on his decisions as a kid. I wouldn't have done any better in his place, nor, do I think, would most of us.
Re: (Score:3)
...I think the greatest work of the last five years of his life has been editing TVTropes -- a site that he became obsessed with after he discovered he could spend all day watching television with no consequence...
This is the _real_ culprit! Beware of this site - it's horribly addictive :)
My opinion is to let him excel at school and take a more normal path than complete removal and its unavoidable isolation.
More seriously, yes ; totally agree. If you are going to 'cure' cancer (or its equivalent) at 25, you don't need to graduate at 15. Perhaps only pure mathematicians do their greatest work when they are young (like Srinivasa Ramanujan, or Évariste Galois) and even then, there are notable exceptions (Carl Friedrich Gauss or Leonhard Euler) who produce work throughout their lives.
Re:Some Anecdotes That Don't Make the News (Score:4, Interesting)
Burn out is really the problem, that a lot of folks don't consider when it comes to prodigies. At some point they all hit a point where the abilities they had aren't sufficient to keep moving on to bigger challenges, if they haven't been provided with the same tools that the rest use to organize and get things done, that's where it sits.
A normal school is perfectly fine, provided that the school is teaching the organizational skills necessary to manage work, and that the student isn't required to do everything super slow just because the rest of the class is.
I was personally, fortunate enough not to get that fast tracked, but I was in college by 16 and even with time off and screwing around graduated by 22. Which isn't bad considering that I was deliberately dragging it out and didn't know what I wanted and took time off in the middle to do other things.
The other bit there, is that just because they're intellectually advanced doesn't mean that they should be permitted to completely waste their childhoods without a bit of screwing around and goofing off. In the long run they'll need to have something that isn't related to their primary work, otherwise there's much less opportunity to cope with the inevitable burn out that comes later on.
Also something else you can learn (Score:4, Insightful)
Is that just because you are smarter than everyone else, doesn't mean you are better. That is an important lesson I learned at public school. I was no prodigy, not even a genius, but I was a bright child, smarter than most of my peers (about 98% of them if the standardized tests were to be believed). Well part of the problem with that is it lead me to be, well, a smartass. Much like a bigger kids feels he can push others around because he's bigger, I felt that being smart made me better. I got picked on a lot in no small part because of that attitude.
In time, I learned that just because I was smart, didn't mean I was better, and that just because someone isn't as smart doesn't mean they don't have plenty to offer. I learned, well, to be a functioning member of society.
That was pretty valuable, and is a large part of why I have my job, which I love, today. It requires interaction with people all the time. If I was a self-superior asshole, there's no way I would have got it.
Also as you note, everyone will hit a wall with their abilities. Everyone hits a point where things aren't easy anymore. It is important to develop some skills for how to deal with that, including working with others, or you are in a world of hurt when it happens.
Re:Some Anecdotes That Don't Make the News (Score:5, Insightful)
And he kind of burned out. He lives with his brother (my good friend) now and hasn't ever really had a real job. After he completed college, he decided to independently pursue his own interests and sort of realized that the whole educational path he had taken was really him just quickly absorbing other people's works. Striking out on new ground was far too uncomfortable for him. What was worse was that this totally destroyed his confidence.
As someone in a similar situation (You don't have to consider me a prodigy; I don't. But I got through school and college with minimal studying, by listening and learning), with similar problems (low confidence, burned out, etc), let me offer this for consideration: I have a lot of projects in the back of my mind--many, from tabletop games to video games to other software to computer hardware, fountains, architecture, writing, animation, and probably others I can't immediately think of. However, I don't know how to get anywhere, and critically, nobody is interested in helping me get where I want to go.
Education is a path to becoming an academic. The school system is NOT set up to help you with any particular project you may have in mind; it is set up to give you a solid foundation. For a great, great many people, education replaces inspiration, which is to say that you don't need to say, "You know what I want to learn? Arithmetic. That would help me solve this problem!" You don't have to go out of your way to learn math like a farm boy of the first century, who quite reasonably may never have needed it. You don't have to gain these skills by grit and willpower. However, when these skills are no longer an accomplishment, you DO need grit and willpower to take the next step.
More importantly, what you need to take the next step are people who know what you're capable of, know what you'd like to do, and are willing to help. Imagine if someone took one of my projects and said, "You know what? Let's run with this. I bet if you took classes to learn this, and I went over here to talk to these people, and I know some people over here that can help... maybe within a couple years we might have something to show to investors, and we can make a business out of it." That sort of confidence can't come from me. I'll work, I'll offer inspiration, I'll do all sorts of things, but everything I want to do is a project, and all of those projects are going to NEED other people. Before I can even ask for their help, I have to believe others will want the end result; I can't just look at them and say, "Yup. They'll want this. Come on everyone, trust me, we'll do it." That seems sleazy to me, or corrupt, or... I don't even know what.
How do you educate a prodigy? Find out where their sights are set, and help them along that road. If they have their sights on many things, help with that. Don't ever, ever tell them that when they reach maturity (ie leave college) and are on their own, their job is done. That's a stalling point, and I would imagine that a lot of people get stuck there.
Re:Some Anecdotes That Don't Make the News (Score:5, Interesting)
I think there is the real problem when the child has a genius level talent, people put him on this high horse to succeed at everything. But because he expects everything to be easy in life he doesn't learn about working hard, or even putting in any effort. So when they grow up they will not keep a job because they either expect place of employment to treat him like a god (not realizing once you reach 18 you are no longer a child prodigy), or perhaps due to his intelligence get very board with the job and causes more problems then what he is worth.
A real life Dr. House wouldn't have so many people begging him back to stay after all the crap he deals out. They would fire him, and not let him back, even if he can save those extra 20 people a year. Because the cost of the legal suites against the hospital probably creating a situation where hundreds of people probably died because the correct departments didn't get the full funding they could have gotten.
Being a genius doesn't make you a good person, or a useful person. A person with above average intelligence but a strong work ethic can probably be more useful then a genius who never was taught to work hard, and tough it out threw the boring parts.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. So wouldn't the answer to the TFS be "as a professor"
You don't. (Score:5, Interesting)
How about something besides science? (Score:5, Insightful)
You could possibly fit the entire American school system into him.
Except that he's highly focused on sciences. How about some history, art, music, or languages for a few years? Heaven forbid the kid learn something besides science.
Speaking as someone who works with a lot of very smart people focused in very narrow fields: the kid's going to be a lot happier if he has at least some general background.
Didn't any of you read Ender's Game? Remember how, among other things, Ender often longs to just be a kid?
Re: (Score:3)
Didn't any of you read Ender's Game? Remember how, among other things, Ender often longs to just be a kid?
I wish I had mod points. This is something a lot of the above average kids I hung around with didn't learn until later in life. Go run around outside. :D
Re:How about something besides science? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sign him up for sports. Make him play for 2 years. Make him learn to be a teammate. Make him learn to be a human.
Re: (Score:3)
The point isn't the sports. It's the social interaction you get by being forced to deal with people on a team.
Re: (Score:2)
When he's worn out science, he may well turn to the arts. Or, perhaps, he will work science in a way that will benefit the arts.
Either way, it seems you don't give much respect to people who focus narrowly to great efffect. So Monet would have benefited greatly from a diversion into, say, science?
I for one don't find Monet to have been diminished one bit for having focused on painting. This kid seems to be doing well. In 5-6 years he'll be able to make his own decisions. Assuming he will be to narrowly
Re: (Score:3)
But Ender had this foisted upon him. The question is - what if this kid does not want what Ender wants. Foisting "just being a kid" on him, is just as bad as foisting "not just being a kid" on him.
Fiction (Score:3, Interesting)
Didn't any of you read Ender's Game? Remember how, among other things, Ender often longs to just be a kid?
You are using a fictional story about a prodigy written by someone who was not a prodigy and likely has no special insights into raising one as a guide? Should we next consult the Fellowship of the Ring for advice on raising an adopted nephew?
Seriously, your point about exposing him to other things is fine but using Ender's Game as a parenting guide is beyond ridiculous.
And look at the people who go on to be great (Score:3)
You discover that child prodigies often as not do not go on to become the great people in their field. For every one you can name there are tons more that didn't and tons of just "regular" genius adults that did. Like take Wolfgang Pauli. A brilliant physicist and a child prodigy. Worked with people like Feynman, Einstein, Bohr, and Oppenheimer. Fair enough but notice that among those names, he's not the greatest, and none of the rest were prodigies.
Also take a look at one of the current greats in science:
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe he will be happier being the absolute best in his field, thanks to an education that was focused on his interests and aptitudes?
Maybe.
The problem is, he would have to be autistic for it to actually happen. Not to mention that when he needs inspiration some time in the future, he might have nothing to draw upon. Many a natural scientist drew upon something taught in the humanities he might have scorned as a student; you do not get to know what knowledge is useful until you gain it.
A general education isn't for everyone. Specialists should be able to specialize.
General education is for everyone. Specialist education goes above and beyond general education.
Many good universities adopt the T-shaped student policy:
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Truth. Any extra resources in the public school system - which let's face it, there are no "extra" resources in our current public school system - are devoted to bringing those on the opposite end of the spectrum up to grade level. There are very few programs and opportunities to advance a gifted child within the system.
Public schooling in the US is not for gifted children. Your only viable options are home or private schooling. The child's opportunities for learning and enrichment are only going to be as g
Re: (Score:3)
You let him pick his teachers and classes. You let him complete the coursework at his own pace, and you don't require him to do homework (he'll do however much homework he needs to understand and remember the material without any externally imposed requirements). When he completes the required coursework, you let him pick another topic and continue studying and learning.
And you do exactly what his parents and school have been doing, keep him involved with other kids his age, sports, arts, music, etc. And yo
Re:It'd be the same as anyone else. (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't learn in school. School is about socialization and indoctrination.
I see this parroted often, and I think it's misguided.
School can and does teach - there are lots of teachers out there that are passionate about teaching and really want their students to learn. Yes, there are also those teachers that don't care.
Of course no kid is ever going to get to prodigy level in the US school system, but if a teacher's done his/her job, the seed will have been planted for that potential prodigy to continue learning through his/her life.
If anything, it's the "school only indoctrinates you" mantra that holds kids back.
How about (Score:2)
Not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?
Anyway from what I've read, the guy is a pretentious little git who can't stand working with mere mortals anyway and ends up finishing projects on his own. Maybe one day he'll grow up and realize that even he has very real limitations.
Re: (Score:2)
Really though, I'd vote for a combination of computer aided math and science education with as much exposure to college seminars on history, philosophy and the social sciences as he can stand to sit through. IMHO, the trick to producing a keen intellect is to marry knowledge (i.e. theorems) with the ability to think both vertically (apply knowledge in the expected manner) and laterally (take what you know about A to reconsider what we
Re: (Score:2)
Or another Billy Sidis. Gave mathematics lectures at Harvard at the age of 12. Lived his adult life in seclusion.
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe one day he'll grow up and realize that even he has very real limitations.
Well, I don't mean to be too flippant, but he is 13. He can quite literally grow up. He's a child prodigy, not a victim of a Disney-movie style body swap freaky friday kind of thing.
Re: (Score:2)
In Soviet Russia, Prodigy Educates YOU! (Score:2)
Seriously, you don't. You just treat him like a sponge. Leave books around and let him absorb them.
Go to a university with him (Score:2)
Dear god don't do it! (Score:2)
Don't dare subject him to the state brainwashing the rest of us proles have to endure.
Ugh, fucking stub writers (Score:2)
The actual part of the story which is important:
"That kind of off-the-charts intelligence comes with a conundrum, though: Because he's only 13, Gabriel is not emotionally ready to handle programs designed for older students. His intellectual abilities raise the question: How do you map out an education for a boy at the extreme end of the gifted population?"
Re: (Score:2)
You give him as much freedom as practical. Keep him busy.
When I was 13, I was absorbed with all thing space. NASA, Mercury/Gemini/Apollo, Soyuz, KH satellites, Pioneer, Ranger, if it left the atmosphere I was engrossed in it. But I wasn't nearly intelligent enough to get personally involved, so I scrapbooked and watched, and learned all I could. Let him.
you don't (Score:2)
How do you fit him into the American school (Score:2)
Lego (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Real Genius (Score:2)
Send him to college.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Genius [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
More specifically, send him to med school [wikipedia.org]
Is he ready for the school system? (Score:2)
The school system is not designed for people at either end of the spectrum.
He could go to college, and he'd learn something. However, he'd need to be in a phd program before he got to "interesting" studies. Is he willing to wait 6 yeas to start learning? Is he mature enough to sit through a "health" class in college where they tell you to wash your hands after using the bathroom (that really pissed me off)?
The real question - is he ready for the American school system?
You need to teach non-scholastic topics (Score:2)
If you find out tell me (Score:2)
I dunno the answer, but I sure could use it.
I can't afford to home-school or that would be the obvious solution.
His parents seem to be level headed. (Score:3)
You don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
You do not 'fit' a kid like that, but rather do your best to understand what his needs are, even if these are unconventional. In terms of learning, he will do well on his own, you just need to support him with the appropriate resources. What he will likely need help with is with developing healthy social interactions and integrating to society. It you focus just on his intellect, he will suffer later on.
Where were my 'appropriate resources'? All I got at school was to sit in a room full of retarded monkies, teachers who didn't teach, and threats of being suspended should I ever complain.
This world needs a radical rethink on education, it's just not working for anyone with above average IQ. This kid is just an extreme example.
Home schooling (Score:3, Insightful)
This kid is a prime candidate for home schooling. In many communities, the public school system, or other social organizations for kids are available to the home schooled to keep them engaged in activities with their peers.
The biggest problem with integrating kids like this into "The School System" is that the system doesn't deal very well [slashdot.org] with those whose performance lies outside the social norms (particularly on the high side). You have to have the option of putting him into activities where he will fit and pulling him out if he's a mismatch for their culture.
Re: (Score:3)
I second the homeschool option. It sounds like the kid can handle academics so continue that through independent study, college courses, or online study. But convince him to try fun classes and adventures that will remind him that it is great to be young: rock climbing, ballroom dancing, metal working, and wilderness skills.
Make sure he does something useful. (Score:3, Informative)
My point is, we need to make sure kids like this learn how to do things that translate into a means to not only make a good living for themselves, but also contribute to society in general.
Sounds a little like me (Score:5, Interesting)
I took college classes from 9 to 13, then my parents pulled me out entirely. There were good and bad aspects to my path. At 13, actual graduate math classes were a bit over my head, and I felt a lot of pressure and feelings of failure because I couldn't quite hack them. Also, being isolated was hard, and it wasn't until I came back to grad school at 22 that I felt I developed my social skills properly. But being allowed to focus on intellectual pursuits was really nice in a way, and I actually look back on that fondly. Now I have my PhD and work for Google, and I do geeky things for fun. As one example, I'm noodling on keyboards, and, being me, I'm writing a DX7 synthesizer emulator. Most people consider the math of it to be impenetrably difficult, but, I'm like, "oh, _Bessel_ functions, I can dig that shit!"
I hope he does well and finds a path that makes him happy. One thing my parents did was keep me out of the newspapers (and off the front page of Slashdot, although we didn't have that then). I'm not sure whether that was entirely good or bad - publicity is valuable coin in today's society :)
You don't! But... (Score:2)
At this point he has no place in a normal classroom... *BUT* there is an example you can eliminate.
When I was in highschool at West Anchorage High School they had an alternative high school called Stellar. They were too small for any sort of afterschool extra like band, choir, theater or sports so many of the students their would participate in West's programs.
Have him participate in a nearby school in the programs he wants but bypass the normal class room curriculum. Kinda like a playdate if you will but
Re: (Score:2)
Sigh...
At this point he has no place in a normal classroom... *BUT* there is an example you can emulate. (Not eliminate...)
If I ever win the lottery the first thing I will do is hire a full time editor to review anything I write to be read by someone other than me...
The question of making someone "fit" something... (Score:2)
Don't force him into a rubbish system (Score:2)
How do you fit him into the American school system?
You don't. You build a new school system around him.
Maybe that new school system will also be useful for those students that are too intelligent to fit into the current school system.
Don't (Score:2)
How do you fit him into the American school system?
Please don't try... You're neither doing him nor the school system any favor. The best you can do for people who don't fit the system, is to allow them living productively outside of it.
A good system is capable of exception handling....
He is above the system... beyond it... (Score:2)
Why should he fit into the system? Or more importantly, why should the system be made to be a fit for him?
It's easy! (Score:2)
After his frontal lobotomy, he should fit in just fine!
Send him to Harvard/CalTech (Score:2)
While I'm sure that a lot of us have heard of prodigy horror/early burnout stories, it doesn't always end up that way.
My best friend entered Harvard at the age of 15 as a Sophomore. He took some of the hardest courses available; Math 55, Physics 55, Organic Chem (by the way, I believe Bill Gates took Math 55 which is one reason why I don't think he's a dummy) and did extremely well on them. He had a great girlfriend and was an excellent foosball player. (I didn't have a girlfriend, barely got through Mat
answer (Score:2)
You don't (Score:2)
Clearly the technical stuff he will educate himself on, and ask for the things he needs in order to do so. The only thing you have to be concerned about is social skills, and having some semblance of normality in childhood.
DONT EVEN TRY (Score:2)
You don't. (Score:2)
You don't educate him. You provide the tools and let him educate himself. Require some basic stuff, but anything beyond highschool level, he should be allowed to explore at his pace.
As for the social aspect... I don't buy it. I certainly didn't learn to be social in school, and he won't either. He will simply be bullied until he withdraws and avoids everyone. He won't learn to get along with them.
On the other hand, clubs and meetups would be very good for him. The people there don't have to put up wi
Specialized schools (Score:4, Informative)
Effectively impossible (Score:3, Informative)
1. I was a prodigy...not quite of the same level. College classes at 9, but nothing more impressive than that. Went through the normal system.
2. I have taken over the education of a prodigy. Quite Elementary school to homeschool after 4th grade. I was the homeschool tutor (Like Aristotle for Alexander). A year later, he went to college.
3. I've been in education at almost all levels, almost all subjects since.
Fundamentally, there is no system that will handle all the kids. Allow them to escape.
From experience: (Score:3, Interesting)
In 5th grade, at the request of my teacher, I took my SAT's. I scored higher than 88% of college bound high-school students. I was put into an "accelerated program" that took myself and all the children like me (the smartest 0.005% of children age 7-11 from the entire school district) by bus into a single classroom 3 days a week. We were issued a "class project" which was to promote recycling. We gave speeches at places like MIT to push the agenda, and ultimately our class project worked. Prior to us there was no recycling in schools. Now, you can't visit a school now without seeing blue recycle bins.
At one point, at age 12, I was offered a full scholarship to Johns Hopkins University when I finished high-school provided I maintained my grades. That was the positive aspect...
Now the negative...
The extra work they forced us to do frustrated and stressed us. They talked down to us when we didn't understand things. It took away our childhoods, as we spent long hours doing extra homework with no pay-off other than to assess our individual limitations. In the end, most of the kids burned out by the time we were halfway through high-school. I kept in touch with most of them for years and none of them did any better in society after school than our contemporary classmates. What it did do, however, is make all of us, and I mean ALL, social outcasts and misfits.
Personally, prior to the program I was in, I had a handful of good friends and was on little league basketball and baseball teams. Dare I say, I was actually popular. After going into the program, it was school work only. While my friends would meet up after school to hang out and play, I was inside doing extra homework. The trend continued for a couple years and by the time middle school came around, when all the schools in the district dumped into one, I was the loner in a much larger crowd. A year or two later high-school rolled around, and I was jumped (group assaulted) repeatedly before, during, and after school at least 3 days a week. Why? Because I scored higher on the tests, because I turned in my homework on time, and because I knew the answers to questions asked in class. I moved schools, but it just continued. I was just a loner nerd, and let's be honest, teens can sniff that stuff out. My parents had long talks with school administrators on all levels, but none helped or even seemed to care. I eventually started skipping classes to avoid beatings, no joke. Ultimately, I dropped out of school in my junior year and got my G.E.D. and started community college while my classmates were still starting their senior year.
I wish someone would've stepped in and told my parents that just because I had more aptitude than the vast majority didn't mean I had to use it immediately. Let the child live his life. With the way that life expectancy is rising, and retirement age is increasing he'll have to work for 80 years. He gets about 10 years to actually enjoy life, let him while he still can.
work experience (Score:5, Funny)
Get the kid a job as a janitor at MIT. That oughta do it.
Something bigger? (Score:3)
"He'll probably find a cure for cancer," Sleight said. "Or something bigger."
Umm, last I checked cancers were a class of hundreds of diseases. I can't see how you could find something bigger than one method to cure all of them given the multitudes of really smart people that would be happy to come up with a cure for just one. (Like liver, lung or pancreatic cancers. Hey, did I mention each of those organs has multiple cancers that affect it? Hell, they'd probably be happy to add a cure for one cancer of one of those organs to the tool kit of modern medicine.)
Oh well, guess it's one of my pet peeves when people think cancers are actually one disease.
Davidson Institute (Score:5, Informative)
Contact this place, they can probably give you better advice than most anyone on slashdot or anywhere really:
Davidson Institute [davidsongifted.org]
They're funded by the Davidson family who after making a mint in education software (enough to buy Blizzard in the 90s) moved onto more directly charitable endeavors. The institute runs a school for the gifted in nevada, provide nationwide help for gifted children and also give out a yearly fellowship. Probably other programs as well.
Basically, they know more about all the options that exist than anyone here and are very friendly people. The last one is key, btw, since some programs are run by bureaucratic cretins who actually consider it a waste of their time to help people. These people aren't like that.
I could try to summarize the options I know of but, frankly, it'd be an incomplete and a waste of time compared to what people who deal with this full time can tell you.
Let him decide. (Score:4, Interesting)
He's obviously the one person best suited to figure it out. He knows more about the range of topics that he has studied than his parents or his teachers. Where he might need help is in getting access to the resources that he chooses to take advantage of, given his young age.
As for extracurricular activities, the article already states that he participates in other non-academic pursuits. I'm not concerned about the need for balance in that regard.
The one concern I do have is that for all the academic and extracurricular activities, the one thing he needs to learn to be HAPPY in life is how to relate to others. That's not something you get while doing scientific research, or by doing sports. It's not something you get by overachieving in any sense.
I didn't learn that lesson until relatively late in my teenage years. I was miserable throughout my childhood and adolescence. I still carry the emotional scars. And the problem is that, for all the compliments that others pay me, calling me "talented" and "intelligent," I feel paralyzed, like everyone is always expecting something great to come out of me, and all I ever do is disappoint when I don't meet those expectations. So I stop trying.
Granted, I'm not saying this kid is going to end up the same way. All I'm saying is that he needs to be given the permission to NOT do something grandiose with his life. He doesn't owe anything to anyone but himself. I've come to realize that the most successful and well-adjusted people in life are the ones who are not only talented, but also have the drive, discipline, and perseverance to continue despite past failures. It's not enough to simply have one or the other.
Intelligence versus Self-Motivation/Self-Control (Score:3)
I see a lot of people talking about intelligence and laziness. I have studied a number of inventors from the 19th and 20th centuries. My favorites are Philo T. Farnsworth and Nikola Tesla. Based on my own investigation of the topic, I found that self-motivation and self-control appear to be much more important factors in success and accomplishment than intelligence. The issue isn't that the educational system fails to accommodate prodigies, the issue is that the educational system isn't very good at teaching students how to motivate themselves. This applies to any student, not just those that are gifted.
In terms of raw academics, smaller schools provide a better quality education to the overall student body. In terms of social climate, smaller schools tend not to have as many of the large scale social problems experienced by larger institutions.
As a consequence of No-Child-Left-Behind, some school systems have really been struggling for financial support. Lately they have been using gender-segregation to improve test scores with dramatic results. There appear to be a lot of negative social mores influencing student achievement in mixed-gender situation (junior high/high school level). A lot of students intentional under-perform to avoid certain social stigmas, especially those related to the perception of the opposite gender.
I agree with a lot of the other posts that demonstrate concerns about the prodigy not being able to handle social and societal interaction beyond their prodigy. Based on my understanding of such matters, I would say that a small same-gender school would be the best way to proceed. It allows them to learn the rules and experiences of social interaction and society while limiting some of the academically detrimental factors.
Re:Socialization only, if that (Score:5, Insightful)
Whatever he does, make sure there are plenty of girls around. A kid like this needs to have some experience being around them, before hormones hit and he realizes he has no idea how to talk to them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
This. And for fucks sake find a way to show him how to UNDERSTAND social interaction so he can PLAY THE GAME with confidence.
Learning diplomacy and how to read personal cues is important to anyone.
Re: (Score:2)
Jealousy rears its ugly head. That anonymous thing works for you, by the way.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
How many podigy's do we know who have contributed to the society? I would think none ...
The reason is they don't have the structured education to fall back on... Yes even if it's mediocre structure.
John von Neumann [wikipedia.org]? Although I'm not sure whether his life history will satisfy the homeschoolers in this thread:
Although he attended school at the grade level appropriate to his age, his father hired private tutors to give him advanced instruction in those areas in which he had displayed an aptitude. Recognized as a mathematical prodigy, he began to study advanced calculus under Gábor Szeg at the age of 15.
So, normal 'restrictive' school, plus tutors.
Re: (Score:2)
There are a few modern Americans in this list. Oddly enough, Ted Kaczynski is one of them.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies#Legendary [wikimedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's because they don't know what society is. They never fit in, so they never learned about it.
Make the kid go play a sport. Make him learn to be a teammate, human, part of society.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would you design a school system for a 1-in-million kid?
Seems to me he is doing find on his own, though I am guessing some socialization with kids his age wouldn't be a bad thing.
Because the current school system is only fit for students of average or below intelligence. Any student smarter than average has to pretend to be dumb just to fit in.
Schools exist mostly to crush the youth into compliance with social norms, providing education is a secondary and far less important task.
Re: (Score:2)
One thing I've seen with several "prodigies" when they are fete'd by the press is how socially awkward they appear.
Being an intellectual high achiever doesn't obviate the need for development of social and communication skills.
I think many people would look awkward in front of the press, unless they are already quite outgoing, or used to it. However, yes school is useful for more than just learning
The kid needs to get punted outdoors with Bear Grylls for a few months.
Can't he learn to drink his own piss indoors, comfortably surrounded by books?