


Ask Slashdot: Computer Test Lab Set-Up For Home? 142
An anonymous reader writes "For as long as I've been playing around with computers I've had a home test lab. I found it to be a great learning tool. However, I haven't invested much money into it lately and because of aging hardware I can't get what I want out of it anymore. So a revamp is in order. I've looked into several cloud vendors for a box I can rent to do some virtualization, but it doesn't seem to be cost effective or practical. What are your thoughts on it? What set-up do you have at home for tinkering? Have you looked into hosted solutions for this?"
Virtualize (Score:5, Insightful)
Buy a computer.. Put >8GB of ram in it (i would recommend 2GB per VM, and 2GB for the host). Maybe some nice fast disks..
Load VMWare ESXi, or another OS and virtual machine software of your choice..
The ability to snapshot and restore things will save you so much time testing things, you'll wonder how you used to get things done before. Maybe, setup a second system or laptop for things like wireless testing, drivers, etc.. things you can't simulate in a VM.. but with the virtual networks in most VM's, you can setup some very, very complex networks...
Re:Virtualize (Score:5, Informative)
I agree with Virtualization (really, it is a must for any lab).
If your budget is low, crank up the specs on your desktop machine, and use VMWare Workstation (or some such).
If you budget is a bit higher, get that machine and dedicate it with Xen Server or vSphere (or whatever)
Higher yet? Get a couple of boxes, and an iSCSI solution so that you can support clusters (iSCSI is much cheaper than fibrechannel, and you can do windows clustering as well as your virtualization platform clustering.)
You want brands? I did it with generic computing hardware (24GB core i7 boxes) and a Thecus iSCSI solution (because I didn't want to take the time to build the iSCSI myself). WD RE4 drives. Get funky with quad-port Intel NICS and a linksys switch that supports VLANS.
Make sure to get a Microsoft TechNet subscription if you are working with Microsoft platforms.
Have fun.
Gonna grow it? Start with VMware Workstation. The VMs you create can migrate to dedicated virtualization platforms as you move up in expenditures.
Re:Virtualize (Score:5, Informative)
ESXi is free for a basic featureset. For a low budget, I'd recommend it over Workstation which isn't free. If you're working on the same box as your VM host, then maybe Virtualbox would work for a free solution.
I give ESXi the thumbs down for driver support (Score:3)
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I can post all day on any of these posts, but I'll chose to start with... YOU!
Virtualization is not be utilized heavily because... it lags like a stuck boar. On a crappy "test" box vitalization will run 101%, it will only be about 10% usable. RAM has as much to do with this as something buried deeper in comp. spec. such as FSB and registered vs unregistered memory. of course. Servers just run bigger badder gear even on the low end. A low end server is like 10x a low end desktop. So don't talk budget p
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I used Virtualbox on a Thinkpad Laptop with 8GB of ram and an SSD to prototype many, many of my projects.. It would get sluggish after about 5 VM's were turned on.. (with 1GB of ram each, and one with 2GB ram).. These were Windows Servers.. not my normal linux toys.. Virtualization is different for everyone.. If you virtualize a file server, then yes.. You better have server class hardware underneath it. If you virtualize a bunch of static web serves, then it really doesn't matter.. etc.
It really depends
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For storage you could even use a Linux box sharing out its disks through NFS. Much cheaper solution than iSCSI, and performs the same function.
Also, ESXi is free, Workstation is expensive.
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When I last renewed my Technet subscription, (last May maybe), the reduced license count was an option. You could still pay the regular cost for the same number of licenses they offered previously. Have things changed?
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We have a lab at the office and some development/testing space on our production systems, but there's nothing like a home lab that you
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I will also add to buy an AMD dekstop to do this since he mentioned cost effective. For $499 you can get a Llamo with virtualization instructions with 8 gigs of ram. That can run 4 VMs for cheap. Intel chipsets tend to support ICores with virtualization instructions but disable them in the bios on purpose forcing you to pay more. All AMDs have the ability to turn them on by default.
For that price it is a great deal. Also if you hate virtualbox you can download a trial of VMWare workstation and create the VM
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I'll second the Llano suggestion but go with 16GB of ram (4GB Sticks are cheap nuff now) and you can upgrade to 32 when the price drops further. You can skimp a bit on the CPU by going with the A3650 instead of the 3850 and have decent performance along with reasonable power.
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This is news to me. Please explain.
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Some of the iCore 5s have hyperthreading, some have virtualization instructions, while others do not. Even if you select a CPU that has them you could end up with a bios wont let you turn them on. HP has been known for example of doing this since the P4 days. They sell 2 identical ones but the flash wiht the hyperthreading turned on costs $300 more. They are the same otherwise.You really do not know if you buy such a system that it can run VMware or Virtualbox because of this so look out a head of time.
AMD
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So you should avoid HP.
Case in point, the latest complaint about disabling the virtualization permanently in BIOS that found from HP is the HP Pavilion DV2 which sports a AMD Athlon Neo MV-40.
I think you unfairly blamed Intel for the actions of HP.
Reflash (Score:1)
Just reflash the bios, if ever you get a HP then...
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Thats not a BIOS change.. thats "business class" :)
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You can create VMs using the Free VMware Player (Score:2)
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agreed. I do this and use ESXi, and it's a great little setup. The only problem I've had is making sure to use supported hardware. If you use an intel motherboard you should be good to go. Just check to make sure the storage controller is supported. Most of the intel based stuff is (hence, the suggestion to just get one of their boards). If you want to be able to install a card and direct it at a particular VM, make sure you get a board that supports VMDirectPath (or something like that). That's the VMware
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Maybe, setup a second system or laptop for things like wireless testing, drivers, etc.. things you can't simulate in a VM..
you can definitely simulate wireless testing in VMs. Set up instances of linux in a UML, connect them with tuntaps, and modify/drop packets between the tuntaps accordingly according to the probabilistic model for the wireless network you're hoping to test.
I've developed a (proprietary) system for my employer that does just this -- pathloss is calculated using the Friis equation according to geographic distances between nodes. Nodes `move' on a controlling interface, which relays packets to a google-maps (
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Thanks! thats kind of cool to know..
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I agree with building a computer with 8GB or more of memory.
I use VirtualBox for my home test system and set the disk image to be written to a 16GB Ram Drive -- this makes it very fast to format and load a new guest OS from ISO or DVD -- I usually set and name the disk images in VirtualBox to be 4GB or 10GB in size. I back up the disk images off-site and on a small raid5 server, and have one local copy in a folder called "ComputerStore" -- set up a shared folder (and network share to something like C:\vsh
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Basically the answer is a HOME COMPUTER is a better and more flexible virtualization platform than a CLOUD machine will be.
If you want a solution that is online and accessible to the rest of the world for some reason, you can rent a server to do virtualization on, but it does NOT need to be a CLOUD machine if that is all you're interested in. In addition, one of the more expensive items to get on rented servers is RAM dedicated to your machine or VM instance, and you need as much RAM as you can get on a bo
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You really built a server for less than $200 with the specs you suggest? Maybe you upgraded an older system, or scrounged around different parts, and you had to dish out $200 for the extra parts, but not a complete system for that price.
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Does it bug anyone else around here when they boast about how they built systems for as cheap as they claim?
Yes, especially when they also claim the system is about 10x as powerful as it really is.
With 16GB of RAM and 12GHz of total CPU, each of his "45-50 OS's" gets about 364MB of RAM and 266MHz of CPU, with no accounting for overhead. I have 8-core/16-thread ESX servers that run 10-15 VMs at pretty much bare-metal speed, but that's the limit if there is any real CPU use on those VMs. Then, too, there's I/O contention. 40 VMs all writing to one SATA disk would be painfully slow (and you don't get hardware RAI
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Does it bug anyone else around here when they boast about how they built systems for as cheap as they claim?
You mean every time anyone dares type the words "Mac Pro"?
The storage alone is going to be over $100, I'm guessing the RAM is going to put it over the $200 mark. No CPU, no case, nothing else. Oh, and it runs 50 VMs at once? VMs running DOS, maybe.
Exaggerated claims help no one. Let's say that ESX hardware really costs $1000. Okay, now a person can make an educated decision on whether that's the way to go. Stating that one can build such a machine for $200 just wastes the research time of anyone that goes t
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Wow 2 GB per vm? My default is 512 MB and I am yet to need to make an exception.
Of course, I run linux, with KVM and only linux guests (what good is steam...er I mean windows on a VM? games would run very poorly over VNC)
In fact, the whole setup, as is, with the same 4-6 VMs at any given time was recently running with 4 GB total system memory. I only upgraded because my wife wanted to upgrade her desktop and we wanted to keep matching sets of RAM so I got 8 more for her and took her old 4 that was the same
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Again...why would I run steam on a remote VM? :)
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I run linux as well, but I often virtualize windows setups, since I need to work on them as well. Many of the microsoft training things need a couple of clients, a domain controler, and SQL server.. Also, at work, we give pretty much anything at least 2GB, because ram is cheap. Disk IO is very, very expensive..
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I have also heard about some driver issues, but can't remember the details.
Not nearly enough information (Score:3)
It is not entirely clear what you want to tinker with. What do you want to test? Are you wanting to tinker with hardware? Using different software? Writing software? If the latter, what kind? To what end? This is a useless summary of your question.
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This is a useless summary of your question
Agreed. There isn't even enough there to guess.
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Since he was looking into "cloud" vendors, I don't think he wants to tinker with the hardware ;)
Do it! (Score:2)
Would imagine it depends very heavily on what you are actually doing
I’ve got:
- A powerful desktop,
- Large fairly expensive file server and a cheap backup file server (same capacity, but cheap hardware and drives)
- Several old boxes (mostly previous desktops and stuff I rescued from people who were going to throw them out) one of which is acting as a virtual machine host..
- Two intel atom based boxes. One I use for a whole bunch of random stuff (for instance, all the various UPSen I have are plugged in
Rent a VPS (Score:1)
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Sounds like I could trade your system for a nice car.
If he is trying to save cash I do not think your solution is cost effective. However, you can get systems now for cheap with 8 gigs of ram and at least a hex core that could run software development fine. I do admit simulating server loads wont work but that is why you try to get the boss to pay for it then :-)
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Oh I agree cost does sound to be something to think of, but he did ask what we have for setups :-), On a completely pointless rating my system is a 7.6 on Windows Experience.
Wow, your ePeen is without a doubt considerably larger than mine, bravo sir.
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For home tinkering? (Score:2)
I get old, cheap hardware. Lots of it available. Install Linux on it and do what I want with it. If it breaks I can get replacements for next to nothing.
I'm not exactly the Department of Energy.
You can also find some really neat stuff to work with old hardware in salvage sales - Data Acquisition stuff, cameras, etc.
Don't write off the old stuff, not unless you actually need a super computer for something.
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Power Cost vs. Uptime (Score:1)
This is something the original post didn't really address. However it's critical. The two situations for this I see are as follows:
1) Uptime is minimal, only when Playing...then get the cheapest hardware that you can, old whatever.
2) Uptime is Always. I don't see a list of computing power needed. But a laptop with dual core, maxed out on ram, with Vmware will have about the lowest Amp draw around. Of course you'll be limited to a handful of VM's up at a time, but if you only need 1 or 2 up ALL the time, the
Need more details, but .... (Score:2)
Off-hand, I'd say a big determining factor is going to be whether or not this "testing" has a lot of do with networking.
If part of what you're doing revolves around configuring routers or switches, or even a lot of tinkering related to how workstations interact with a server or servers, I don't think you want to look at the cloud as a viable option. In my opinion, hosted applications/servers in the cloud only make sense for production systems ready for deployment and regular use (which equates to said conf
2 machines and lots of VM (Score:2)
I've had as many as 9 individual machines at home for testing, development, and support. If I had to do it today, I would:
- Build one honking machine to host servers and network resources. 8-16GB RAM, 4 or more cores, Maybe an SSD to help perk things up.
- Build another honking machine for emulating the various desktop-type stuff you'll want to do. 8GB RAM might work here, but why scrimp?
Choosing the VM environments is the hard part. Virtualbox and Xen are obvious choices, though if you're in Windows all
Off lease hardware and ebay. (Score:2)
I purchase older generation off lease equipment off of ebay for use in my own home lab.
I currently have around 4 2u servers with dual dualcore or quadcore cpu's. About the only thing you need to purchase are hard drives. For that I picked up 1 3u 15 bay drive chassis with dual amd dualcore cpus, 16G ram and running about 8 500G drives and 8 1TB drives. It has 4 gig network adapters that I use lacp with for link aggregation on a cheap managed switch that supports lacp.
The only problem is my switch, I paid
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I currently have around 4 2u servers with dual dualcore or quadcore cpu's.
Around? Either you have 4 2u servers or you don't.
-AI (I have around 20TB of data storage)
Beefy Server (Score:1)
Hardware? for testing? (Score:2)
There's really no point in having a mashup of hardware collecting dust in the basement anymore. Linux KVM (kernel based virtualization) is free and quite stable. Other options abound by Vmware and Oracle too if you like to click EULAs.
Not quite sure why anyone would want to go the hardware route anymore unless they are developing for specific architectures that are not supported by the hypervisor.
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it would be nice to know what the lab is for.
VMs sound like the way to go. Unless you are doing heavy lifting at home any AMD64 system with a lot of ram should work fine.
I suggest AMD because of the low cost and the fact that all of them have hardware VM support unlike Intel.
With Intel you have to check which CPU you have.
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Not quite sure why anyone would want to go the hardware route anymore unless they are developing for specific architectures that are not supported by the hypervisor.
Anybody whose software will be deployed on physical boxes should test their software on physical boxes. The idea of testing your stuff in the environment and configuration it will actually run in might sound a bit odd, but amazingly enough it turns out to be a good practice. </sarcasm>
Seriously though, VMs can speed development tremendou
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Spend what you are comfortable with (Score:2)
Virtual Machines (Score:2)
I have around 30 virtual machines running on a single tower server running ESXi. Solaris/x86, Windows XP, 7, server. A dozen different Linux installations. (Mostly used for software development, with a Jenkins-based continuous integration system building code across different platforms, spinning VMs up as needed).
Pretty much anything I could do with a rack of servers, I can do remotely with a bunch of VMs. I can access the console remotely, reboot, power-on, power-off virtual machines remotely. I can create
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And there's stuff you can't do easily with physical servers that you can with VMs. Take a system snapshot, change something or test something, then roll back to the snapshot.
One of the other cool things is that you can pull the plug on the VM (i.e., hard power off) without any chance of damage to physical hardware but still see how your application reacts.
I also found that prolonged disconnection from the disk drive doesn't make much difference to most operating systems (when I had a 2-hour SAN outage). This was a shock, as when the SAN came back up, the VMs resumed running with no issues.
Clouds require a different perspective (Score:1)
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Yeap. EC2 is nice if you have a public service that you might need to scale very rapidly, or just for a short while, but for constant demand it's not worth it.
Get three cisco switches.. (Score:2)
Get three small cat3k L2/L3 capable switches from say eBay. You'll be able to do most LAN topologies with those at both layer2 and layer3.
Use older hardware (Score:1)
You can pick up not-so-dead socket 775 procs, ddr2, boards, used power supplies from recycling centers, I've always been able to get this crap for free from restaurants doing jobs for em', I find it, and offer to haul it away. They think the stuff is broken, but I've seen that they usually have one issue (Dead psu, hard drive for some reason causing a short, improperly seated memory from Carlos trying to copulate with it.) You get 6 of these old PoS's, strip em' apart and you get 3-4 good ones. Word of t
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That's what oil companies used to do (or might still do) - help desk wanted to keep hardware consistent with every department to reduce support costs. Developers always wanted the latest hardware. This led to monitors, 9-core, 25-core, coaxial cable, ribbon cable connectors, PC base units, disk drives, disks (5.25", 3.25"), CRT's, manuals (Novell Netware), all being dumped by the dozen. All perfectly working and functional. For the oil company it's old junk - for the computer geek, it was still beyond their
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So instead of telling them the stuff really works and there's value to it, you let them believe it's broken and offer to scrap it for them? Yet you keep it? That's cool.
He mentioned chain restaurants, not mom n pop on a budget restaurants.
Not sure if you've had the opportunity to WORK for ANYONE yet... but
franchises do not give a fuck about throwing away equipment. And they
give a fuck less... whether it works or not. Home office says, upgrade,
they upgrade.
Then there's H&R Block... lol, that had tube monitors until a year ago.
Wow.
-AI
Used Rackable (Score:2)
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Only downside is that most rackmount systems tend to be LOUD.
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maybe with some mods but rackmounted servers for the most part give no consideration to sound levels. Not that they should since most racks are in data centers. I am sure that there are a few rack cases that are quite for use in the music industry.
Get a proper server class system for your lab (Score:1)
After a long time using standard PCs in the home for development I've finally splashed out on a HP DL160 G6.
I've done this because I'm fed up with replacing power supplies, fans and running out of motherboard memory capacity. In my experience the HP rackmount servers (almost) never break down and you can stuff serious amounts of memory into them (the DL160 G6 has 18 SIMM sockets). My server spec is 2 x quad core cpu + 4 x 3.5 inch disks + 40GB RAM. Paid about GBP 1000 for the server (second user) off EBAY
Visit dumpsters. Wear old clothes. (Score:2)
Right now I am seeing quad-core Xeon 1U Dell rackmounts with 146 GB hard drives and 2GB or more of RAM in corporate dumpsters. Lots of desktop stuff too.
Hardware is free as long as you can afford to spend your labor & time on it.
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vbox is king shit, and free. (Score:1)
mini itx! (Score:1)
Comment subject (Score:2)
My home "test machine" is a Xeon E1220, which ironically is the least expensive (at retail) i7 system by around $80. I stuck 16GB of (admittedly expensive fully buffered) RAM in a Supermicro motherboard and added an IBM ServerRAID M1015 (8 port SAS card that supports 3TB drives, they sell on Ebay for $75 - $100). It all sits in a nice 3U chassis that I've had for years. Most of the hardware in the machine is devoted to running one little FreeBSD VM that supports ZFS for all the drives I have in that machine
KVM (Score:1)
Why do so many slashdotters suggest proprietary software? I had a co-worker in the same situation tell me about his plans for a vmware server. I replied by having him come to my desk and typing two lines to start a vm in KVM on debian:
sudo apt-get install qemu-kvm
sudo kvm -m 1024 --cdrom
Install virt-manager to get a GUI to do the same thing.
I am amazed at how easy it is to use free software, yet what sits at the tip of everyone's tongue is proprietary.
Virtualize, but set up good storage (Score:1)
1) Memory is the thing. VMware and the other hypervisors are really good at making the most out of memory (ballooning, shared memory, de-dupe, etc.), but RAM is cheap now. My setup has 16GB and I can do just about anything I want with this.
2) Disk is even more the thing. My setup is a cluster, but even if it wasn't I'd still use some sort of external disk solution. I hav
Proxmox VE + A real server (Score:1)
It depends (Score:2)
Largely on the kind of testing you are going to be doing. For functional software testing, one big box hosting VMs is great. I do it with ESXi, a quad core, 8gb, and several disks. good enough for a virtualized server and a couple of workstations. If that's your target, then more spindles is better. 4 250gb hard drives give better performance than a 1TB drive, because there is no contention for disk access (if you set it up right).
ESXi (Score:2)
Another vote for VMWare ESXi. I acquired a scrapped server-class machine (dual proc, 8 disk RAID, dual NIC, redundant PS), and run all my instances on it. I have a spare machine loaded and powered down as disaster recovery. It's a little loud (lots of fans) but I can't even hear it -- it's in the garage, close to the router. I either remote to it or use the VMWare console from my home office.
The advantage, in my opinion, of using server class machines, even if they're old and slower by today's standards
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I don't understand the question. ESXi is a bare metal virtualization server from VMWare. KVM in it's usual meaning is a Keyboard/Video/Mouse switch. You usually use a KVM if you have several machines to which you need access. ESXi is a free (as in beer) way to virtualize several machines onto one server. This is not only usually cheaper, but it's also easier to manage.
So I guess to answer the question as asked, the difference is that ESXi has multiple instances on a few servers, and using a KVM kinda a
My Current Lab (Score:1)
Generic Barebone plus Virtualization (Score:1)
You can get a decent generic barebone from Tigerdirect for less than $300 (have to watch for a deal) with a quad-core processor, 8GB of RAM and a TB hard drive. I have one with Xenserver free version because I like the tools and driver support. I have used VMWare 2 GSX and ESX, then ESX3, VMWare Server free version and ESXi, but have been using Xenserver free version in both test and production for the last three years, though I understand that VMWare's solutions are also very workable. A UPS is helpful
life isn't that complicated.... (Score:1)
My home test setup (Score:1)
I have an ASUS P6X58D-E with an i7-920 and 24GB running ESXi 5.0. It's perfect for playing around with different OSes and testing software.
Run over to www.vm-help.com for everything you need to know about cheap whitebox virtualization with ESXi. They maintain a HCL and Forums for everything VMWare.
The new version of ESXi supports a LOT more "whitebox" hardware than the older versions - they're clearly responding to market demand for cheaper servers by providing support for common consumer-grade hardware.
You shouldn't set up a home meth lab... (Score:2)
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