Ask Slashdot: Building an Assistive Reading Device? 134
RulerOf writes "A few years ago, my girlfriend's grandfather was diagnosed with Macular Degeneration. Ever since, he has had progressively more trouble with daily activities. While his wife and family are able to help him with most things, at the age of 88 and without many living friends left, he dearly misses the ability to read printed text. He was able to get by for some time with magnifying glasses and other basic aids but now even those do not help. Recently, a local clinic which specializes in treatment for low-sight and blind individuals made him aware of and showed him several assistive reading devices that successfully allowed him to read. He mentioned this to his family members, and when I was told about it, I thought that these devices sounded like they were not much more than a camera attached to an LCD monitor or television with a little bit of special software thrown into the mix." (Read on below for more.)
RulerOf continues: "Some investigation online turns up products such as these, and their prices are so prohibitively high ($2400-$3000) that the manufacturer won't even list them on their website. Furthermore, the effects that these devices can apply to the pictures they output look awfully similar to the effects filters built into many webcams, and the ability to zoom and pan a live view of the screen is something that I've done effortlessly for years on OS X, and that I know exists in many Linux desktop environments. My current plan is to try to build something like this with a used Mac Mini, a Logitech HD Webcam with a full-screen view of the camera always up, and a Magic Trackpad to control zoom level and screen position, plugged into a huge LCD TV that he already owns. Have any of you ever built something like this? Am I wrong in thinking that the ease of use would be comparable to the purpose-built devices when configured correctly? Is this something that might work better with a newer nettop device, a digital camera or camcorder, and Windows (where I'm skilled at automating things) or Linux at the core instead?"
I know someone you should talk to. (Score:4, Informative)
One of my work colleges is working on an identical project. You two should talk. Email me at jasonmac404 atsymbol gmail .... and I'll put you two in contact.
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One of my work colleges is working on an identical project. You two should talk. Email me at jasonmac404 atsymbol gmail .... and I'll put you two in contact.
Much appreciated! I'll keep on top of the comments here for the next few hours and then get in contact.
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Well, if you want to replicate one of this solutions, all you need is a joystick, a PTZ (PTZ means Pan Tilt and Zoom) camera with at least 4x optical zoom, and a very cheap computer (atom will do) with a nice LCD display.
You should be able to find a nice PTZ camera for well under 300 bucks.
If you want, I can provide you with the source code to control a Pelco-D camera using a standard joystick in GNU/Linux, just email me: almafuerte (at) gmail (dot) com.
Anyway, I think that's not the best idea. You are spen
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My wife's granddad had an old computer. We went for a cheap solution. I pointed a cheap web cam down towards the desk. Added a second monitor. Put some "tap" lights to illuminate the area. And set the software to be really big.
He's got one screen for his work (Excel, etc.) and the second monitor shows whatever is in view of the web cam. It only cost me about $30 to get the lights, web cam, and cheap second monitor.
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I set one up. The lady who was my customer was very knowledgeable about some technology but had not thought of this particular use. Once I'd shown her the basics of it with a crappy camera and a mostly working 40" salvaged TV she had herself a reading desk built with a mount for a pricey high resolution camera and a then state of the art Hitachi 50" projection. I also built her a remote out of surplus aerospace push buttons, an aluminum box and tediously soldered connections to a second new remote for the H
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http://www.saelig.com/product/VI021.htm [saelig.com]
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All the same, thanks for doing awesome stuff. Have you considered publishing diagrams or a how-to guide at Instructables.com or for Make magazine?
DIY vs Purpose built (Score:2)
How about Audible books ? (Score:5, Informative)
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Also, Librevox the free alternative - doesn't have nearly as large of a selection though.
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Also, I find far too many librevox volunteers sound like they're doing it as practice in an ESL class.....
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Could be worse. I once downloaded an audiobook that sounded like it was narrated by Zapp Brannigan. That got real old real fast.
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Link please?
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I think it was "Birthright, the book of man" from Demonoid. Or as the narrator says : "BIRTHright ... the BOOK ... of maaaaaaaannn."
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It's librivox:
http://librivox.org/ [librivox.org]
Re:How about Audible books ? (Score:5, Informative)
I'll bring it up again though, because it is still a very good point. Thanks!
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As another poster has mentioned, MD will eventually result in total loss of vision. So do encourage him to explore audio books.
But I think I know where your girlfriend's grandfather's is coming from on the audio book topic. Not every book is released in audio format, so you're kind of tied to only those titles that have an audio version. The latest cool book may take months to get an audio version, if at all. Also note that magazines, product instructions, medicine labels, etc. do not have audio versions. S
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I'm a voracious reader and can read quicker than most, but audio books are useless to me. My hearing is fair and without modern materials my glasses could double as deep sea/space craft widows.
It depends on the how a persons brain works, some people learn and retain and focus better with the printed vs the spoken work.
One professional (Doctor, plus other assorted degrees) learned to write VERY fast in coll
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It's also worth checking the local library to see what they have. Mine has thousands of audiobooks (mostly on CD/mp3-cd) at the main branch and many many more through other branches in the system, plus free access to libraries on worldcat.
I only ever have to buy the audiobooks I want to keep for myself.
If you're on a budget, the library may be a better option than audible.com, especially with the DRM that doesn't allow use on anything but Windows (and probably Mac).
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The sound quality on audible.com is not that great. There are many other sources of better audiobooks than audible.com.
Kindle DX (Score:1)
If he's looking to purchase new books to read - what about a Kindle DX with the font size jacked all of the way up?
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If he's looking to purchase new books to read - what about a Kindle DX with the font size jacked all of the way up?
When I first started thinking about it, a tablet or an e-reader such as the kindle was my very first suggestion. The problem with it was that, on a 10" screen, he needs things zoomed so high that he may only be able to view a single sentence at a time. The camera/monitor approach preserves the dead-tree look and feel (and the UI, hehe) but adds the ability to enlarge the text.
:)
Wouldn't be a bad idea if there was a 24" kindle, though
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If he's looking to purchase new books to read - what about a Kindle DX with the font size jacked all of the way up?
When I first started thinking about it, a tablet or an e-reader such as the kindle was my very first suggestion. The problem with it was that, on a 10" screen, he needs things zoomed so high that he may only be able to view a single sentence at a time. The camera/monitor approach preserves the dead-tree look and feel (and the UI, hehe) but adds the ability to enlarge the text.
Wouldn't be a bad idea if there was a 24" kindle, though :)
How about the Kindle App on a PC plugged into a big monitor (where "big" is anywhere from a 22" to a 60" or larger LCD or Plasma TV)?
Add a wireless keyboard and/or Mouse for control.
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If he's looking to purchase new books to read - what about a Kindle DX with the font size jacked all of the way up?
When I first started thinking about it, a tablet or an e-reader such as the kindle was my very first suggestion. The problem with it was that, on a 10" screen, he needs things zoomed so high that he may only be able to view a single sentence at a time. The camera/monitor approach preserves the dead-tree look and feel (and the UI, hehe) but adds the ability to enlarge the text.
Wouldn't be a bad idea if there was a 24" kindle, though :)
How about the Kindle App on a PC plugged into a big monitor (where "big" is anywhere from a 22" to a 60" or larger LCD or Plasma TV)?
Add a wireless keyboard and/or Mouse for control.
Oh, and one more Kindle suggestion:
Depending on his tolerance for monotone computer generated speech, try the Kindle text-to-speech function to read books to him. Not nearly as good as a human voice with emotion and pacing that match the text, but I've used it to "read" some books on long car drives.
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My 1 year old plasma burns in way faster than my old 20-odd year old TV.
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Or, Kindle app (or any other e-book reader if you have epubs) on a smartphone which has TV out of some kind (A/V or mini HDMI or MHL), then the touch screen can be used to navigate pages.
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What about a head mounted display [wikipedia.org] or virtual reality goggles? These would allow a huge image to be formed, without the need for a bulky display. If you want to DIY, such a beast could probably be built with an ipod/kindle/... and a few lenses (from binoculars or a View-Master [wikipedia.org]?)
Getting really funky, there also seem to be people experimenting with drawing images directly on the retina [wikipedia.org] of Macular Degeneration patients. Not recommended for DIY!
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probably still not big enough. Thus, displaying the magnified text on a full-size TV screen...
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EyeClops (Score:1)
I have an EyeClops, basically a toy microscope that hooks up to a TV. This is cheap but would let you get as close as you want to anything. Amazon Link [amazon.com]
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I have an EyeClops, basically a toy microscope that hooks up to a TV. This is cheap but would let you get as close as you want to anything. Amazon Link [amazon.com]
I went ahead and ordered one of these. While it doesn't solve the primary need as elegantly as what I'm looking for, at $40, it could be useful in a pinch. Thanks!
This may help..... (Score:4, Informative)
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Don't know why this has been modded down, it's very true. Much as I (20-400 vision) would prefer an Android device, this is something that Apple have done a pretty good job on, and my iPhone has been an invaluable accessibility device to me. The iCanSee app has become my magnifying glass that I take everywhere, with the added advantage of being able to invert the colours.
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iPhone, iPod Touches, and iPads are pretty good for people with disabilities
Submitter's aged relative is disabled, not retarded.
Reading devices. (Score:1)
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So is an iPad too small? If a plastic frame with a magnifying lens were constructed such that the light and camera from the iPad illuminated and recorded the book, and you could vary the magnification to display from a whole sentence to a word or two and just scan the iPad around over the book page (the plastic frame would flatten the page and keep the iPad at the appropriate distance for focus) would that be a clear, clean, workable solution for what, perhaps $40?
Better yet, there is already a design for a
Lighthouse (Score:4, Interesting)
http://lighthouse-sf.org/ [lighthouse-sf.org]
Surely his doctors have mentioned these people?
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http://lighthouse-sf.org/ [lighthouse-sf.org]
Surely his doctors have mentioned these people?
Possibly, but I couldn't say for sure. Browsing their products appears to yield a rather impressive array of optical magnifiers. Do they happen to have anything more along the lines of what I'm talking about in the summary?
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I honestly don't know. But my grandmother (now 100 years old), used to swear by them. She uses some kind of video enlarger with a TV and used to have a PC with some outrageously over priced assistance software, but that's too difficult anymore. I believe she still uses their books on tape service, which used to be special format cassettes, but surely that's moved to solid state now.
old time radio (Score:2)
This isn't reading, but for entertainment he should look at old time radio. Old Time Radio [archive.org]
Thousands of marvellous radio plays as mp3's, no reading required.
Just the thing for long trips in a car or commuting, too.
Westerns, detective stories, comedies, it's all there. And it's free and legal, too.
classroom tech (Score:2, Interesting)
The big crazy right now in classrooms is document cameras (glorified webcams on stands with lights) you can get a basic model that should work just fine for about $300-$400, avermedia makes a pretty good one. Then just hook it to a TV, large screen or projector with a VGA cable. Plus when that time comes and you need to figure out what to do with the device when the time comes, just donate it to your local school (tax write off).
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I'm still investigating computer-based solutions, in the event that they perform better or that the document camera turns out not to provide quite what he needs. A very excellent suggestion, dearest AC
LED Projector? (Score:2)
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I kinda like the sound of that, also, since the projectors shine at the wall, not directly into the reader's eyes like a device would, it wouldn't hurt his eyes.
Big-ass display, easy to set-up and operate (just paint a wall beige or whatever that droll colour is), and anyone in the family could operate. He could zoom onto whatever size he wanted, and it wouldn't be displayed in a disjointed fashion.
Also, another thing, I have heard it's easier on the eyes to see farther up than close up, so he wouldn't have
Ebooks on a dedicated laptop (Score:5, Informative)
When my dad got macular degeneration, I got hold of an old laptop, put linux on it, and set it up so that it loaded fbreader on booting. My dad had never used a computer in his life, couldn't see the keyboard, and wasn't interested in learning how to use a PC. But I put sticky red rubber buttons on the keys he needed to navigate fbreader. After some experimentation, we figured out big white writing on a black background worked well, put a load of ebooks on it, and away he went. He found it very easy to use, and never needed to worry about how the computer worked. He used it a lot, and although he started listening to audio books too, he much preferred being able to read on screen. My dad was into science fiction, and we took up Baen Books' offer of free ebooks for the disabled (see http://www.webscription.net/t-disabled.aspx) so he didn't even have to pay for books.
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For Sci-fi, I recommend 'Escape Pod'. It's a great podcast series with over 300 podcasts, with a new one appearing every week, and it's completely free.
Tablet-based device? (Score:1)
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The real question from there, I suppose, is, "What's the killer app that makes it work?"
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iPhone, the iPhone 4 has an excellent macro mode. Build a sled for the iPhone, couple with custom written app that takes camera input and sends picture to TV via AppleTV. The sled would be hand-sized so very mobile, wireless and easy to scan by moving the hand. Zoom level could be regulated by pinching gestures on the upward facing screen. As an added bonus controls would be easy to use because of iOS assistive technologies.
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The more I think about this the more I'm surprised this hasn't been done before. An iPhone based solution could replace several of the products on the linked page:
- just iphone app with zooming display on screen for mobile reading of small print (eg. in stores)
- small iPhone caddy with built in leds with output to TV for more mobile reading in house.
- iPhone held in stationary reading post outputting to large attached monitor, with lots of illumination.
You don't need the computer to do processing, basically
Magnification is not the answer (Score:5, Insightful)
The long-term result of macular degeneration is that he will lose the ability to focus on anything in the center of his vision, and will eventually hit the point where he only has (blurry) peripheral vision. When this occurs, he will not be able to read at all. Any items which magnify text will be a very temporary solution for him.
Focus on finding audio solutions that work, spend time researching them and then becoming familiar with using them, because anything you create now that magnifies text will be very quickly obsolete.
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The long-term result of macular degeneration is that he will lose the ability to focus on anything in the center of his vision, and will eventually hit the point where he only has (blurry) peripheral vision. When this occurs, he will not be able to read at all.
That wasn't my impression. I thought they usually preserve peripheral vision. It is true that vascular problems in the retina can cause a lot of damage and even total blindness, but I don't know how common it is.
Review Article
Medical Progress
Age-Related Macular Degeneration
Rama D. Jager, M.D., William F. Mieler, M.D., and Joan W. Miller, M.D.
N Engl J Med 2008; 358:2606-2617June 12, 2008
Although most people with advanced age-related macular degeneration do not become completely blind, visual loss often marke
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Focus on finding audio solutions that work, spend time researching them and then becoming familiar with using them, because anything you create now that magnifies text will be very quickly obsolete.
The Library of Congress has been loaning audio books and players to the blind since 1931. The service is free, and the players are designed for the handicapped.
He should also be asking his public library about local radio reading services.
There is always something to be gained in looking at existing, successful, low-tech solutions to problems like these.
Look no further - knfb reader and JAWS (Score:5, Informative)
Check this out:
I just checked the facts now, and Ray Kurzweil (AI + future-tech guru/genius/entrepreneur/benefactor/cyborg ) has a whole company specializing in assistive reading technologies.
K–NFB Reading Technology
http://www.knfbreader.com/ [knfbreader.com]
The original OCR reader for blind people he developed is presented here:
http://www.knfbreader.com/products-classic.php [knfbreader.com]
This product is no longer in development, because they have moved to using cell-phones (you just gotta love this cell-phone age we're in). BTW, don't waste your time looking at products made by people without the expertise in this field of AI and assistive technology. You need a real solution for a real problem...
For reading and using the computer, advanced software exists (Windows platform - don't let anyone make you waste your time with open source, it's not for grandpa - yet). If he can identify elements in the screen and is able to locate where text is, he can just use something like TextAloud.
As macular degeneration progresses, though, he will want to move into software specifically tailored for the blind. In fact, I would suggest getting acquainted with the following software before total blindness. JAWS is the major-league player in this category.
http://www.freedomscientific.com/products/fs/jaws-product-page.asp [freedomscientific.com]
I wish all the best for your girlfriend's grandfather. Tell him he's not the only in that situation and that there are solutions out there.
I hope this helps.
May you score many Internet Points points with your future father-in-law, too ;-)
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That's true, but the Kurtzweil and other reading machines are fairly expensive, $3,000 and up, I believe. JAWS is also fairly expensive. I think they mostly sell them to people who are eligible for Medicare and Medicaid.
A lot of that cost is for tech support and development, which they do well, but here the poster is capable of providing his own tech support.
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Kindle Audiobooks (Score:2)
gh, LLC. (Score:2)
I used to work in the same building as these people. I even worked with a couple of them on different products.
While I have not used/seen their products, they may offer something useful.
http://www.gh-accessibility.com/ [gh-accessibility.com]
BIERLEY MONOMOUSE (Score:1)
I used to work for these folks. Their products are quality, have a good warranty, and they have a 30 day return policy they honor well. Order one directly from them, if the product doesn't work well for your needs, just send it back (Shipping costs to return the item are on you.)
Bierley Inc [bierley.com]
The device is $198 and comes in two mag levels and there is a color model. Check out their website. I will also email you too.
Their basic, entry level product:
Bierley Monomouse [bierley.com]
Maybe there's an app for that. (Score:1)
The smartphone of his choice (iOS pretty definitely, Android probably) should apps available that will let him image some text, OCR it, and then either zoom in on it or speak it to him.
Cheap Digital Camera (Score:2)
That said, I also know several people with strong levels of visual impairment who have found the various iDevices to be game changers for them in the past
Macular degeneration != focus issues. (Score:2)
The general problem here is that parts of the visual field are missing in the affected person. There is no direct analogue to other experience, but it is somewhat like you have a lace curtain in front of your eyes, so that some areas of your vision are OK, some are poor quality, and some are missing.
Ideally, what you want is something that warps the visual field around these areas, while preserving the missing content. To a person with negligible degeneration, the displayed image would look horribly dis
needed followup (Score:2)
The "lace curtain" analogy is that the lace curtain is glued to your eyes - shifting your eyes does not affect the relative positioning of the curtain. To affect it you have to shift your head.
That is the purpose in distorting the visual field to map around these 'holes' - so your eyes can pick up everything in front of them.
Blind OSS users use orca. (Score:3, Informative)
VoiceOver in Mac OS X? (Score:3)
You already mentioned Mac OS X for screen magnification, but maybe he can learn to use VoiceOver, which is also built in.
the best website for print disabilities (Score:1)
http://bookshare.org
Talking books (Score:1)
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I second the suggestion of audio books and also recommend the Daisy consortium. My grandmother-in-law has macular degeneration that has progressed from impaired to blind over the course of a couple of years, so last year I decided to read her an audiobook for a Christmas present (it was a local history book that wasn't present in the audiobook library.) There was a lot to learn, and it took a surprising amount of time and effort to get started and organized. Actually recording the book was only half the
AccessWorld Magazine (Score:4, Informative)
Here's a magazine about assistive devices for the visually impaired that's having a special on-line Q&A event this very week:
http://www.familyconnect.org/calendar.asp?EventID=2955 [familyconnect.org]
Ask the AccessWorld Experts! Special Online Event November 14-18
Dates: 11/14/2011 - 11/18/2011
AccessWorld iconFamilyConnect and AccessWorld Magazine are excited to announce a special opportunity for families to interact directly with some of the foremost authorities on accessible technology—from cell phones to ebooks, screen readers, classroom adaptations, and more.
Simply visit FamilyConnect's Ask the Experts blog anytime from November 14-18 (Monday-Friday) and leave your questions or concerns in the comments. Our team will be on hand to respond to your inquiries.
AccessWorld's accessibility experts include:
Lee Huffman
Tara Annis
Brad Hodges
Janet Ingber
Deborah Kendrick
J.J. Meddaugh
Ike Presley
John Rempel
This one-of-a-kind opportunity allows families to have their questions and concerns about assistive technology addressed by leading experts. Join us November 14-18 for this exciting online event!
Contact: Lee Huffman
E-Mail: accessworld@afb.net
URL: http://www.familyconnect.org/experts [familyconnect.org]
And here's AccessWorld:
AccessWorld
Technology and People Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired
http://www.afb.org/aw/main.asp [afb.org]
I knew some people at the American Foundation for the Blind. At that time, they had a research department of a couple of engineers creating assistive devices. You might contact the AFB or other blindness organizations and find an engineer to talk to. You might well find somebody who will be enthusiastic about your project.
Prizmo on an iPhone? (Score:1)
Intel Reader (Score:1)
Spinach ... (Score:2)
Off-topic I know, but some forms of macular degeneration respond really well to eating lots of spinach and similar leafy vegetables: http://www.macular.org/nutrition/index.html [macular.org]
This may or may not work, but eating spinach isn't a hard thing to try and has little if any downside.
Use a Linux distro for visually impaired as a base (Score:2)
Slashdot just ate my original comment...
Worth starting with a Linux distro that's aimed at visually impaired users, such as Vinux: http://wiki.vinuxproject.org/index.php?title=Main_Page [vinuxproject.org] - Ubuntu 10.04 based, and includes full screen magnification that might 'just work' if you point a webcam at a paper book. Also this would support Chrome which is a good way to use the Amazon Cloud Reader, for Kindle ebooks (easier than using a Windows VM).
The Vinux community can also probably help in other ways with your
Assistive technology resources (Score:1)
I agree with the poster upthread that JAWS is powerful (and Kurzweil has been a standard for years), but in my experience it is also pretty complicated for a novice user.
Have a look at what the Trace R&D Center [wisc.edu] has to offer on the topic. In addition to developing accessibility standards and technology, they are an amazing resource for information on AT in general. They used to have a very good "information and referral" service, though I'm not sure if that's part of their mission now.
A couple of othe
Kindle 2 with 'text to speech' and bubble keyboard (Score:2)
The reason for the $3000 pricetag (Score:2)
I agree that audio is probably a better long-term solution for someone with MD. But to the extent that magnification and enhanced contrast help, the devices you've found can be useful as well. To help you understand the sticker shock of $3000 for a combination of what is basically off-the-shelf consumer technology, you have to understand that these devices are developed and sold as medical devices, and this is how our medical economy operates.
Detailing how simple consumer technology can cost $3000 when pa
iPad (Score:2)
My first gen iPad doesn't have a camera so I can't attest to resolution or field of view, but using my iPhone's camera it only needs to be about a foot from a letter size page to capture the page completely.
You could rig up a stand which held an iPad a reasonable distance from the reading material, maybe with a light for the source material, maybe with a periscope-like arrangement of mirrors.
Not sure if the pinch-to-zoom gesture would be a challenge, but hardware-wise a tablet with a decent camera seems lik
Same Situation (Score:2)
My Grandfather has a year up on yours but.....
I thought exactly the same thing as you did. That one could just strap together a web came or what have you, and LCD monitor etc. And you sure can. But here where the difference lies. For $3000 you get a drastically simplified that an 80+ year old can handle. It has buttons that they can actually feel, remember, they can't see the little camera buttons. They get some one to call when they have problems, that isn't you. And chances are given his age, he may ha
Lucentis to cure MD (Score:1)
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I mean, did you take even a moment to think about the differences in situations there? Or did you just emotionally knee-jerk like most idiots do?
In fairness, he replied in the spirit of "fuck that sort of person, give their resources to this other sort of people" found in your original post.
I'm all for "when I start to get too senile to be useful, please let me perform an orderly shutdown" but that is my choice and is not something I would want enforced on others (or myself for that matter). What you are suggesting (offing people based upon their perceived utility to society and/or resource draining potential) is a particularly unpleasant slipper
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You forgot to put a </nerdrage> at the end of your post. Always close your tags or it'll mess up Slashdot's formatting.
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So, I take it some kind of stereotyping and group affiliation is your substitute for explaining why you disagree?
God damn, do you have any idea how pathetic that is? Try forming your own position based on truth as you perceive it. See if that doesn't work out better for you than assuming I am a member of some group I never even mentioned.
Sounds like when I asked "or do you just emotionally knee-jerk like most idiots do" your honest answer
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UK style age based medical care withdrawal is really harmful to a lot of peoples interests in the US.
Think of the age care specialists, the nursing homes, all the workers, the hospitals warehousing wings.
A lot of funding flows in to keep "one" person alive and local communities get to enjoy the trickle down funding.
All that quality infrastructure that could end up like parts of
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88 years old, going blind, no doubt collecting Social Security that some unemployed young person could also use... have you ever thought of euthanizing him?
Dunno, but I bet your parents hought about euthanizing you, you psycopathic shit bubble.
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"Time to marry her and start fucking her in the ass."
You are clearly inexperienced if you think the first enhances opportunities for the second.
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