Ask Slashdot: What To Do With a Math Degree? 416
First time accepted submitter badmojo17 writes "After achieving her lifelong dream of becoming a public school math teacher, my wife has found the profession to be much more frustrating than she ever expected. She could deal with having a group of disrespectful criminals as students if she had competent administrators supporting her, but the sad truth is that her administration causes more problems on a daily basis than her students do. Our question is this: what other professions are open to a bright young woman with a bachelor's degree in math and a master's degree in education? Without further education, what types of positions or companies might be interested in her as an employee?"
software dev? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've know a couple of devs with math degrees, and they were excellent.
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Insightful)
Software development, and IT in general will do well. I have 2 math degrees, the logical flow of math works very well with all things in IT.. except for management.
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Interesting)
MS, Community College (Score:3)
With an MS, you can teach at a community college. A lot of the students there are really trying to learn. A lot of them are among the smartest you could hope for (my roommate 23 years ago was a computer engineer who graduated near the top of his class at VPI... who did 2 years at a community college, and then 2 years at VPI. Now he has a PhD.)
Arguably the job teaching at a community college is better than that at a 4 year institution, especially if you use your time for such things as textbook / study g
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With an MS, you can teach at a community college. A lot of the students there are really trying to learn.
I agree that you may be likely to find more motivated students at some community colleges than at many public schools. Often students at community colleges are really trying to get ahead in life.
my roommate 23 years ago was a computer engineer who graduated near the top of his class at VPI... who did 2 years at a community college, and then 2 years at VPI. Now he has a PhD.
While, this does happen, it is rare. Most community college students never complete a 2-year degree, let alone go on to a 4-year school or a Ph.D.
Arguably the job teaching at a community college is better than that at a 4 year institution,
Only if you want to teach 6-8 courses per semester and still get paid 1/3 of what a tenured prof. at a 4-year college earns to teach 2-3 classes per semester. Don't get
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OK, you are high. If you get a degree because anything but interest I can not hire you. People who learn things because of money are just sad.
-- Terrry
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I've know a couple of devs with math degrees, and they were excellent.
Mod parent up. A math degree is excellent background for software development. It sounds like the submitter's wife would have terrific skills to bring to a software development team: the obvious of math; the less obvious, dealing with socially awkward teenagers. If she finds that "coding" isn't her thing, there's still requirements gathering and documentation, testing, and project management.
Re:software dev? (Score:4, Informative)
But, programming is the general area I would wish to get into, and it's something I'd recommend OP to look into to. But no matter what, you'll have to learn a lot more: be it in the workplace, on your own time, or in school. No getting around that.
Dunno how the education background figures into it. I guess it helps, you have to break down complex concepts so that students can learn it. In programming, you pretty much have to break down complex processes to simpler subroutines and instructions. Maybe it helps, but I don't know, education isn't my thing.
Re:software dev? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll be honest, I got into writing code strictly because I wanted a steady paycheck. I was mediocre at it, but then about five years ago I reached a bad point in my personal finances. If I didn't get better enough at my work to get an extra $30,000 per year from some employer, I was going to lose my house. I put in the effort to improve, and was pleasantly surprised to find that I enjoyed my work far more. It's tempting to assume the enjoyment came from the pay increase, but it actually came because now I could blitz through the repetitive, entry level nonsense and spend most of my time researching and solving interesting problems. The better you get, the more fun this field is.
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Funny)
Same here, BS in Applied Math and I do embedded software.
I never actually use the math I learned, except when I go off on a tangent....
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, please, stop the hyperbole.
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Funny)
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Your bad puns have distracted my cat, who was working on Furrier transforms.
Re:software dev? (Score:5, Funny)
Will this thread keep going or was it just a tangent?
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Maybe you should take logic.
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> I never actually use the math I learned
You never manipulate abstract symbols, in a way which makes them solve your problem?
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Working with your teacher (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a great math teacher in high school.
15 years later, it was kind of a blast from the past to walk into the employee cafeteria and encounter my high school math teacher, now a software developer for the same corporation.
Tutoring (Score:5, Insightful)
There are families who value education and aren't satisfied with schools.
Re:Tutoring (Score:5, Insightful)
I came here to say this.
The problem is not that she's a teacher, the problem is clearly that she is working for the wrong employer.
Try private schools (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Tutoring (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed. Tutoring will pay better than regular teaching, will generally involve better students and will always have the best administrator you can be.
Tutoring not as lucrative as you think... (Score:2)
Agreed. Tutoring will pay better than regular teaching, will generally involve better students and will always have the best administrator you can be.
The reality is that for some high demand subjects like math, tenured teaching pays surprisingly well. Also you have have summers off, and the pension and heathcare benefits. A tutor in those subjects generally doesn't do as well as thier teacher counterparts, end up working irregular hours (weekends/evenings), and lack similar benefits.
For example, in San Jose (a pricy area), you might get $65K as a math tutor if you work for someone and that is probably pretty flat over time (limited pay-bumps for senori
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Teaching has all the right time off, it's hard to convey just how valuable that is.
Even if you have to work at home, you can pick up your kid at 3, no babysitting, and work at home. No babysitting on march break, that extra week at christmas, or the two months in the summer etc. Those costs add up fast if you're in the private sector.
Then there are pension benefits. As in: you actually have a real pension. Usually they are defined benefit, meaning you will know how much you are going to get when you ret
Research scientist / research assistant ... (Score:3)
If she has additional background in biology, or computing skills, she might find work in a computational biology lab as a staff scientist or assistant ... but the real key is to have a complementary skill, where mathematics helps propel the analysis and work.
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(replying to myself): Also, if her statistics are good, she might consider joining the biostatistics core at a med school or medical company. There will be no shortage of clinical trials or other biological experiments where they really need a statistician (or mathematician) to help with experimental design and statistical analysis / hypothesis testing.
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BS level math will have trouble getting into a good biostats gig. I suppose you could become a wizard at R but you really need to go back and get a MS in stats and we can talk. (BTW I do work with many biostats folks at a large medical institution, am a PhD in a related field and collaborate extensively with a few who are really excellent statisticians. ) Parent might be right, maybe you can become a second string data donkey at a drug company with a straight math degree -- from what I've seen it's
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Honestly, I've never heard the job prospects as being good from bio-stats and I did that in college. Looking at how much pharmaceutics companies are willing to pay does nothing to change my views. Inexpensive grunts is what I see.
You're better off becoming a data analyst or data scientist at pretty much any company out there. Seriously, everyone is on crack about data and big data nowadays. Learn hadoop and you're set for the next 5 years minimum.
Re:Research scientist / research assistant ... (Score:4, Interesting)
I work in a research lab. Honnestly, we have no use for someone with only a bachelor in mathematics. The people that are convinced they need reasonable statistical analysis are typically capable of performing the job themselves. The ones that do not have that skill do not care. (They should, but they don't. So they won't hire you to do that)
Change schools. (Score:5, Interesting)
I come from a family of teachers, so I know all about internal politics. Unless she no longer wants to teach under any circumstances, change schools first before giving up. Try private if you've only done public, etc. If it is truly her passion, she'll find the school for her.
Or, do what my college roommate did and specialize in Sarbanes-Oxley compliance. Make $120,000 a year and hate yourself.
Re:Change schools. (Score:4, Interesting)
I come from a family of teachers, so I know all about internal politics. Unless she no longer wants to teach under any circumstances, change schools first before giving up.
I was a language teacher for a year. While still in school, I realized that I *hated* the public school I was working in - I figured it was just random chance, since I'd had many good experiences volunteering in schools, in the past.
So I took a 4 month contract starting in september at a different school, that had a much different reputation... which is like saying that I switched from Mr Pib to Dr Pepper. Sure, one SOUNDS better, but there isn't much difference. Teachers who had been in the system for awhile must have felt that the grass was greener at a different school, but the grass is just terrible at all schools. How do I know? the contract I took for the second part of the year was at ANOTHER school. That was terrible as well.
There is something broken with our public education system. And I'm in CANADA, which is infitintely better than your crappy american public schools (according to Geoffrey Canada, some know-it-all american educator in some know-it-all american "documentary"). So yes, I feel her pain. Now? I'm doing some consulting work for Training and Development at a large govn't contractor... no relation at all to either of my degrees.
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Same here (4 generations and likely to rise), and US public schools are a major problem. Private schools might work, particularly one that are properly streamed, tutoring almost certainly will.
Re:Change schools. (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a hunch that she has an empathy for children which is what drove her to pursue the education thing. While it might be more practical to choose a different career, it is unlikely that she would ever be happy with anything less than engaging young minds.
Has she considered private schools, or even private tutoring (think Silvan [sylvanlearning.com] or Math Addvantage [mathaddvantage.com])? The environment for both is radically different from that of a public school. In both cases the students involved are more likely to be "reachable" and education the actual goal.
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I have a hunch that she has an empathy for children which is what drove her to pursue the education thing. While it might be more practical to choose a different career, it is unlikely that she would ever be happy with anything less than engaging young minds.
Oh, how I wish I had mod points right now. This is an excellent point that is missing from almost all of the comments here.
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I have a hunch that she has an empathy for children which is what drove her to pursue the education thing. While it might be more practical to choose a different career, it is unlikely that she would ever be happy with anything less than engaging young minds.
That is pure fantasy unless you can teach in some sort of gifted/talented program. Those are rare these days. Normally there isn't much of a mind to engage, and anyway it wants to play video games or chase after people of the opposite sex.
It's possible to get a supply of engagable young minds if you create them yourself. She seems to have decent DNA, and most likely her husband is above average, so... well if she really works at it she can have a pretty full classroom. A dozen kids is usually possible, even
Professional Gambler (Score:4, Funny)
Become a professional gambler.
Re:Professional Gambler (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone already suggested she become a quant.
Fairly obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Private school math teacher?
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I don't have mod points, but I was going to point out the same.
Motivated parents. Lean administration. No interference from politicians.
She can still teach ... (Score:2)
Hmmmmm (Score:3)
My BS in Math hasn't hurt me, but I can't say it really gives you enough depth in math to do a lot with directly. It is a leg up on engineering or science career paths, but I'd be real surprised if anyone could find a position that relied on an undergrad math degree. Math is a beast, 4 years is barely enough time to learn the basics.
I think she's maybe be best off looking at some area where her education degree could be helpful. Training or some type of course design work or something. I'm sure there's a niche there somewhere for someone that is willing to go out and carve it out for themselves. The other option? Go for the PhD and teach education at a college level, lol (or math for that matter). Heck, I've taught a few college level courses as an adjunct myself, you don't usually need an advanced degree. It isn't the best paying job ever, but she might find that teaching a few courses at college level will tell her if she's at all interested in that. It is a BIT different from teaching K-12 in a public school.
A couple of options (Score:2)
First, there's always graduate school. Math is a fantastic subject to learn more about, just because (like many other things). After she could probably get into academia or industry (industry at a higher level).
Second, the people I know from undergrad with math degrees, who did not go to graduate school, chose one of three options:
1.) Work for a financial company doing number crunching of some sort
2.) Taking the actuarial exams
3.) Computer companies: but I've heard from them that at job fairs, computer
Quantitative Analyst (Score:3, Interesting)
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That is all correct, but she'll probably have a tough time getting one of those jobs because: 1) She doesn't have a PhD, and 2) It's tough to get those jobs right now because there are a lot of experienced Wall Streeters looking for work (I'm told). Education-wise, she might have a better shot at a job as an assistant trader if she has the right personality for it, but it might be tough to find anyone that is hiring. And, of course, such jobs are very geographically limited. Most are in NYC with a few in
Silly question (Score:3, Interesting)
Young, shown she can learn and apply reason and logic. Christ, pretty much any career. What does she want to do? She needs to think about what she wants to do, apply for jobs and let them tell her whether she's suitable or what she needs to do to become suitable.
Do something she cares about (Score:5, Insightful)
No-one ever said on their death beds that they wanted to spend more time in the office. And your career will never wake up one morning and tell you it doesn't love you any more. Both of these are reasons to do something she actually wants to do.
If she is in the unenviable position of having to trade her time for money in order to live, she should at least do something she has some interest in. Just work out what she wants to do, then get the qualifications or experience to suit. Don't assume her current qualifications should be the starting point for making that decision. She wouldn't necessarily be starting from scratch, having a degree of any kind (especially a Masters degree) gives you a head start in many other areas.
The OP says this person is a "bright young woman", retirement is probably a long way off... hopefully she can find something she likes that makes economic sense also.
Good luck.
From a few people I know with math degrees... (Score:2)
- Larger hospitals that do research sometimes hire them for statistical analysis of medicines and treatments
- Manufacturing companies sometimes hire them to do statistical analysis of product failures
If she doesn't mind focusing on the statistics branch of math, there are jobs out there.
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Mod parent up. First post that doesn't suggest she make a radical career change to IT.
I know a couple of people with Math degrees working at insurance companies.
The business world (Score:2)
If she wants out of the education field, and has no interest in learning how to code, her best bet is the business world. Not a guarantee by any means, but she has a better chance than your art history or women's studies major. She'll probably start as an administrative assistant of some kind, for management that would like some number crunchers on their team, and she can make her way from there. It's not quite the mail room, but it won't be a "ready made" position like accounting or HR either. She just has
Product development and marketing ... (Score:2)
"Product development" in the specification sense, not in the implementation sense. The determining of needs and wants of potential customers and coming up with products and product features that meet this need. Believe it or not the way people are taught to do this sort of thing in business school actually involves mathematical modeling, sampling and statistics, etc. I was shocked and thrilled t
Get a CS degree? :) (Score:2)
Only half joking, my freshman math professor actually did this. He was finishing up his doctorate at the time he taught the class I was in. Couple years later he was in a CS class with me. He'd decided the pure math jobs out there were crap, but math programming there was a market for.
Teaching or dev (Score:2)
Do teaching or software development
Move Abroad... Teaching is still a respected job. (Score:5, Interesting)
There are plenty of countries where teachers are actually respected, paid decent wages and supported by their schools - my little brother ended up in Australia, and even though he's not currently in a particularly nice school (inner city...) he still says it's a massive leap above most schools in the US/UK...
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Accounting? (Score:2)
While we're on the subject of giving up your passion, how about accounting? Granted, it's like culinary chef working at McDonald's, but a CPA pays much better than a teacher.
Do what the others have said, go to a different school. And yes, learn to put up with bullshit because it exists in every profession.
Software Development / Actuary (Score:2)
I've got a Math degree (not Math Education, mind you, just plain Math). I couldn't find a job to save my life for awhile, but sooner or later I took a tech support job and was moved up to Quality Assurance and may one day move into development.
One thing I *want* to do, but just don't have the fortitude to do is take some of the actuary exams. If your wife is a standard math nerd, doing actuarial work should be right up her alley.
I guess she can really do whatever she wants. A lot of place will just take
Vegas, Baby! (Score:5, Funny)
1. Head to Vegas.
2. Count Cards.
3. Profit.
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Clearly you have never tried to count cards in Vegas. After the MIT kids robbed them blind, they changed their rules and developed sophisticated methods for detecting card counting. My friend and I were escorted to the door withing 15 minutes and that was 8 years ago.
Card counting is easy, but it relies on probability and betting high when the count is good and low when the count is bad. The house keeps track of the count too and your variation in betting.
Banks (Score:2)
Banks employ lots of mathematicians nowadays, especially in the insurance field, but most of them require an MS.
Move to a better school district (Score:3)
And don't give me any crap about how I must be a mean conservative... most of the white liberals who work and live in/near Berkeley, CA refuse to send their kids to the neighborhood government schools...
yes they are criminals (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone who calls kids criminals should be kept far away from kids.
Excuse me? They assault each other and the teacher. My brother was teaching high school in DC and one day a student grabbed his wallet right in class and tried to run. Fortunately my brother was ex-military and knew what to do, but seriously, WTF??? Yes indeed, they are criminals.
Where do you imagine criminals come from? Do you think people suddenly turn criminal at age 18, and couldn't possibly be evil fuckers prior to adulthood? Heck, some asshole stabbed me in the 3rd or 4th grade and I still have the scar 3 decades later. In case you can't figure it out, that would be an assault with a weapon.
It's mightly sick that during childhood the decent people are forced to be in the presense of rotten people. Criminals don't come from thin air. They are essentially sitting in every classroom, except that they haven't yet been arrested because the authorities ignore criminal behavior in children. Remember, I still have that scar.
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Quick. Get on Fox News.
Technical instructor (Score:2)
She could develop and/or present courses for Mathworks or a similar company.
Signal Processing (Score:2)
There are a lot of opportunities in signal processing (wireless, speech, and vision), and the math background would be an excellent differentiator. However she would need to learn digital signal processing, MATLAB for prototyping, and C/C++ for building fast signal processing systems.
The NSA will hire smart math grads for signal processing and train you up to some extent.
Masters or PhD (Score:2)
If she is bright and loves mathematics, she should go on to do graduate studies. Undergrad maths is really boring compared to graduate level stuff. Then the world is her oyster. She should find a good school and a good supervisor. The world of professional mathematicians is pretty exciting !
I just graduated with a math degree (Score:2)
I just graduated with a pure math BS from UCSD with a minor in CS. I got hired by Metron (www.metsci.com) as an operations analyst. Which is essentially just answering questions and doing research for the DOD. As someone who is also a tutor, I can also understand your wife's position. A good question to ask is what did she specialize in? I specialized in probability theory and real analysis, this lends it self to multiple careers. If you specialize in math education your options might be more limited since
Software training (Score:2)
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Just apply for a different job (Score:2)
I spent my first ~10 years as an active duty US Army Artillery officer, and my math background helped me not only to get job done, but to understand WHY things worked, and more importantly, why they might NOT be working.
I later transitioned to a Unix sysadmin gig, and then to information security, where I've been happily making a living for ~20 years.
The math helps. Let's you go toe-to-t
Radar and kinematics (Score:2)
Talk to the big defence/aerospace firms. Lockheed, Raytheon, Thales, etc.
Get a doctorate, and teach post secondary (Score:2)
Find a better school (Score:2)
I mean, really.
Same here (Score:2)
I have a BA in Math and am 2 credits away from an MA in Secondary Education. I've been a web developer for about 10 years now. A math degree is pretty much universally applicable to any profession. Just doing student teaching I found a school district I'll never set for in or have my daughter set foot in. I've had jobs not work out. I live in AZ and currently work for a company in CT and have a handful of other clients. My boss in CT recently mentioned that he may be able to get some work in Data Anal
I Happen To Understand Your Question, Intimately (Score:3)
You can tell her that the first year of teaching will be hell, and that it will get better the following year. No need to lie. She spent a lot of time and money to become a teacher, have her try one more year before she joins up in a JET program.
If her school is a Title 1 school, she may be eligable for a PELL Grant. And she can go an get her Adminstrative Credential.
Technical trainer (Score:2)
hmm (Score:2)
Re:NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure the NSA would love to have a mathematician.
With a PhD. Ranked in the top of his field. Specializing in cryptography applications.
Some teacher with a BS in Math? No.
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Have to have a Masters to teach. Still shy of a PhD but better than a BS.
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As others have pointed, one only needs a bachelor's degree to teach at the primary or secondary level (elementary, middle, and high school levels). What has not been pointed out is that the degree need not even be in the field taught. In the year that I got my secondary education credential, there were five or six other people in the math education program. Of those, I was the only one to earn a degree in mathematics---the others earned degrees in math education. They were not required to take any mathe
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I teach English in a Japanese high school. In my opinion, the teaching aspect of the job is orders of magnitude more difficult than the English aspect of the job.
The problem is not mastery of the subject. It's just not required. The problem is that most teachers do not know anything about how the mind works. I have met scores of ESL/EFL teachers. I can count the number who had ever heard anything about language acquisition theory on one hand. With respect to memory, I have *never* met a teacher who ha
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To teach an university now days more or less requires a PhD if you want to make a career of it. A one off course that pays next to nothing sure, even a Bachelors can teach that if you have enough experience. But one thing you definitely do not want to do right now is teach at a university as just a full time lecturer position (non tenured). Because you're constantly one year away from having your job taken away, regardless of your performance.
When push comes to shove tenured faculty have to be retained,
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Master's not required... (Score:3)
In many states you do. And in this case, the summary notes that she has her master's in education.
In nearly all states, all you need is a generic bachelor's degree to teach in primary or secondary levels as a prerequisite for getting a teaching credential.
Of course, there is an additional requirement of verification of subject matter competence. This might be satisfied with a master's degree in the subject matter specific to their teaching credential, but in nearly all states it can also be satisfied by enrollment in a teacher-subject certificate program at a community college, or by just taking (and p
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I've heard that the NSA is the biggest employer of mathematicians in the country. I'm sure they don't have much trouble finding work for them.
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Math sure helps a lot with CS, but neither of her qualifications or CS guarantees or even implies a skill at developing games.
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But usually much stricter.
I know of someone who work in public IT helpdesk where his boss allow him to watch live European soccer matches or playing Starcraft II on the clock while waiting on the next assignment to roll in.
Yeah, Ada and Pascal (Score:2)
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Yeah, but which infinity? There's a lot of them.
Re:Finance (Score:5, Informative)
Right, but she's already burnt out on working with flaming assholes.
Retirement (Score:2)
But this way she could retire early.
Seriously - making a lot of money doesn't suck. And she's already used to dealing with assholes. Might as well make it worth your while.
Re:Become... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's good money in it, assuming you can get motivation out of making the already absurdly wealthy incrementally richer. I spent time at a hedge fund; paid better than any job I've had before or since, but it was really hard to go to work every morning, because I felt no sense of accomplishment. I just felt like I was squandering my education skimming off the work of others (see High Frequency Trading, the entire speculative commodity futures market, etc.).
The few people who benefited from my work (besides myself) were already so wealthy (the minimum net worth requirements are ridiculous) that every single one of them could stick their money in a savings account and spend it at a rate of $200K a year for the rest of their life with no risk of going broke. Hard to get excited by the prospect of letting them spend $300K a year...
Re:Become... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actuary (Score:5, Insightful)
Same field, but is in some aspects better. Actuaries get high marks in job satasification. Good pay (not as good as quants, but....), easier to get into, good life / work balance, no insane presure, etc. Plus, as an added bonus, you can tell the exact time when somebody will die - but you can only use this power once. On the downside, you make accountants look sexy.
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