Ask Slashdot: Advice On Child-Friendly Microscopes? 118
OceanMan7 writes "My 7-year-old son is getting very interested in microscopic things — from bacteria to parameciums (paramecia?) Not being a biologist, I would appreciate advice on what type of microscope to get. I'd be operating it and he viewing with supervision. I'd like something better than a toy and plan to buy it used, if possible. Extra points if it's stereo and also allows me to view opaque objects at low magnification."
USB Microscope (Score:5, Informative)
I'd suggest a $100 or so USB microscope. You can use it to look at opaque objects, and you can have the picture on your computer screen. That would be a big help when trying to point out what the kid is seeing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Good for inspecting how clean the record stylus is, reading the markings on surface mount components, seeing what an iPhone4s pixel looks like. I probably use it once a week for something, knowing I having it. For examining cellular life, you'll need to prepare slides and have a real microscope, but for seeing what common materials like fibers look like up close,
Child Friendly you say . . . . (Score:5, Informative)
Usually, that means inexpensive and military grade toughness. Two things rarely found in a precision optic :D
However, depending on your budget, you have a lot of options. First, some clarification.
You mentioned stereo being a plus. This can mean two things. Stereo objective, or stereo eyepieces. Stereo objectives are
typically found on lower power scopes used for close up work on things like circuit boards, coins, stamps, gems, jewelery, insects, etc.
Stereo eyepieces ( binocs ) are can be found on both low and high power ( compound ) scopes and are typically an upgrade ( read that, more $$$ )
Considering the age of your interested viewer, you probably want to start on the low end and work your way up if they continue to express
an interest in the field as the years go by. The internet has many sites that sell scopes, some of which I would consider to be in the budget
range for the average seven year old. Some I've used in the past: ( in no particular order )
http://www.microscope.com
http://www.microscopenet.com
http://www.microscopeuniverse.com
Even Amazon and Ebay would probably be valid places to look.
Prices are typically dictated by type, options and manufacturer.
That said, consider the following:
The low end high power setups are going to start around $100 USD for monocular ( single eyepiece ) systems with a 1D stage ( It only moves
up and down ) and LED light source. Probably what you're going to want to look at for a starter scope.
Mid range will get into Binoc ( dual ) eyepieces, better light sources ( variable halogen ), better / more objectives and a multi-dimensional stage.
( stage movement up / down, slide movement forward / back / side )
High end simply builds on the mid range with better quality components and glass.
For a seven year old ? I would start with something along these lines:
http://www.microscope.com/best-seller-omano-om116l-school-microscope-p-741.html
http://www.microscopenet.com/monocular-compound-microscope-40x400x-with-tungsten-light-p-99.html
http://www.microscope.com/omano-omtm-85-monocular-teaching-compound-microscope.html
or, if you really want the binocs, maybe something like this:
http://www.microscope.com/omano-om118-b4-compound-microscope.html
http://www.microscopenet.com/binocular-compound-microscope40x1000x-light-p-415.html
It's certainly an interesting hobby. I have a pair of scopes ( low power and a compound ) on my desk here at home I use to look at whatever
strikes my fancy. Personally, I would rather have the physical scope vs the USB. That's just a personal preference though.
Re: (Score:3)
USB versus physical scope is a toss-up. You'll get better image clarity with a physical scope unless you're using a really good USB camera - the less expensive ones tend to be web-cam class.
On the other hand a USB scope makes it easier involve friends in the experience since they can all see what's going on at once, plus with halfway decent software they can easily capture photographs and video. Good digital zoom can actually draw out a surprising amount of detail provided a bicubic or better filter is use
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
How about living creatures like ants? Also works with Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. :)
Re: (Score:1)
I got a veho USB microscope for cheap to look at small electronics joins (I'm half blind). as always the cd that arrives with new hardware goes in the garbage.
a simple 1 line .bat file does the job after vlc player is installed...
vlc.exe dshow:// :dshow-vdev="Vimicro USB2.0 UVC PC Camera" :dshow-adev= :live-caching=0
shortcut to the .bat file in the start menu means full screen access to the microscope is only 2 seconds away whenever it's needed.
Re: (Score:2)
I always thought these were "toys" - but having received one as a gift, which can do x400, I'm pretty impressed with it. (Also, just works under Linux, as a v4l device).
You might also consider an SLR camera with a macro lens: you can pick up an Olympus OM1 for about $20 on eBay, and add a 300mm macro lens for perhaps $30.
Re: (Score:3)
Hear hear. I had one of the old Intel QX microscopes and loved it. Any USB microscope will let a child see things on a nice big screen and many of them, like the QX3, are ruggedized for kids. It's pricey, though, compared to other desktop USB microscopes of which there are many, as other posters are mentioning (search Amazon), but the design should make it worthwhile. I haven't used the software in a while; it was a bit buggy last time I played with it, but hopefully it's improved.
If you really want eye
Important question (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Someone with more recent experience should answer this since, as I said somewhere up above, I haven't used one of these in a while. That said, several of the USB Microscopes I've used work as fairly standards-compliant webcams, particularly (IIRC) with GSPCA and V4L [linuxtv.org] support.
What you won't get on linux is support for computer controlled focus, enabling and disabling lights or any other features that the microscopes have, unless they have explicit linux tools bundled, which some may have, but I have not work
Re: (Score:3)
Intel QX3
Maybe a decade ago.
Have you seen what you can get for that sort of money these days?
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=microscope&CatId=0&manual=y&SortType=price_desc&filterCat=100005627%2C190405%2C15370799&page=31
Re: (Score:2)
That's crazy expensive. When Intel got out of the USB microscope business, I picked up 2 for $60.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/02/04/21/1719259/diy-computer-video-microscopy-for-under-50 [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re:USB microscope (Score:4, Funny)
Safety, because microscope accidents are the number #1 reason for death in children 5-15
Re: (Score:2)
Well, children tend to share, and share things like pinkeye :-)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
It's called conjunctivitis ("pinkeye" may be an Americanism, but I never heard it before now). It's not particularly fun (half of my graduating class were sharing a strain during our finals exam week ; it hurt). It just cost a client around £5000, cost a freelance competitor around £1500 income, and ruined my holiday (I had to drive back to the heliport and lost 2 days of my holiday) while earning me the £1500
webcam (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the webcam models works well with kids because its cheap and displays on a big monitor, so you can look at stuff together. Some of the better ones show up as if they're normal webcams so you can have some weird internet chats with friends and family (G+ hangouts?) "Hey grandma, look at this giant ant leg" etc.
The other alternative is ebay. A kid is much better off with a worn out but "real" microscope that's probably cheaper than a hunk of Chinese plastic anyway. Some people are weirdly proud of being completely mechanically inept... they are a bad target market for used scopes.
Another alternative is new chinese steel. At a place like lwscientific.com you can spend about the cost of a good video card and get a new, "real" student grade scope that'll last forever.
Absolute worst case scenario is a cheap hunk of Chinese plastic with "900x" magnification listed on the box right next to ridiculous artists interpretations and electron microscope images. Oddly enough the marketing is just about as misleading and poor for other optical devices like telescopes.
You mentioned "parameciums". Its easy to find samples of plain ole dirt, grass leaves, etc. If you want "real prepared slides of weird or interesting organisms", go somewhere like carolina.com, "life sciences" "microscope slides". Note that a good prepared, preserved, stained slide is gonna be like $5 per slide. There are somewhat dodgier suppliers at a somewhat lower cost, but not as cheap as you'd think. On the other hand, my kids find it infinitely more interesting to run around in the yard, pick something up off the ground, and look at it under the 'scope.
Maybe the best place to start a kid with microscopes is a hand held magnifying glass. Much as you're supposed to "do astronomy" by starting with eyes first, then binocs, then get a scope...
I have no financial connection with any of the above other than spending money on stuff like this.
Humm 7 y.o (Score:4, Insightful)
Get a toy one
At 7, it will be great
Get preferabily one with >= 50x mag, so you can see cells, etc
Later you can think of a better one
I really don't remember how old I was when I got my first (toy) one, but it was a built-it-yourself kit
Then I got one that was 100x-300x-600x (which was 'more real') and it was lots of fun
Re: (Score:1)
Agreed (Score:2)
I got a reasonably decent scope when I was around 7. It was great. Cheap scopes on the other hand are just not worth the bother, they'll barely work and nothing loses kid's interest faster than some cranky finicky thing that won't produce interesting results even if you do fiddle with it for an hour. There's really just no reason to skimp that much either when decent stuff can be had for a couple bills and the cheap worthless junk is still just about the same price.
God, the smell of Canada balsam still take
Re: (Score:2)
You're assuming that access to good equipment is equally affordable in all countries.
But well, I could get results from the finicky microscope, good results, I'd say
Apart from the optics, a good source light is essencial
Re: (Score:2)
Eh, my experience with finicky 'scopes is that you really never get decent results. Best one I've ever had was a beat up old 50's bio lab scope that the local college dumped when they upgraded their biology building. Cost, nothing. OTOH you can spend $150 on a new 'toy' grade scope and you'll be lucky if you ever manage to focus on anything or get enough light into it to see much. While something like EBay is always a crap shoot you're more likely to get something you can have some real fun with for your mo
Re:Agreed - light (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, the one I had didn't even HAVE a built-in light. Still worked reasonably well. Something like this would probably be a good bet:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Leica-E-Leitz-Wetzlar-Lab-Microscope-with-Wood-Case-/320918955069?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab842a43d [ebay.com]
Everything you basically need, good optics. You'll need a light, but honestly a desk clamp and a decent LED light will do fine. Not too pricey and you can get good results without too much fiddling. Should be fairly rugged too.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, a light source and good optics go a long way
Also, good sample preparation is essential. I guess most of the problems are there.
For a light source, forget about the "built in" methods. Even a desk lamp goes a long way. And if you try different positions you can get great results, or even go for reflected light instead of transmitted light (depending on the sample)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yeah, I still have the desk lamp, lol, though the 'scope itself finally did succumb to curious children with small tools... lol. I can remember all sorts of tricks to lighting. Well slides are a great idea. You can also get plastic cover slips, which are probably not a bad idea for kids, though I'm sure they are generally inferior. Even with my bad childish sample prep though we managed to make some pretty interesting observations. Helps to have a set of prepared slides though. Damn it was fun being a k
Re: (Score:3)
I would also suggest that unless the primary goal i to teach how to work a microscope, mount slides, that sort of thing, a less traditional style might be in order. The eyeclop
Re: (Score:2)
This
I remember that in school we were instructed on how to use the microscope, but it's very easy to mishandle it
So, for kids, go for an affordable choice
Re: (Score:3)
So.... I'm thinking you're not a parent, and that you are not speaking from actual experience. This is pretty much the exact opposite of advice I gave below. A toy microscope will be nothing but frustration and will kill the child's interest. My daughter had a proper microscope at 7. I had a proper microscope at 8. A toy microscope is nothing but demotivating frustration in a box.
Motor skill considerations are key, though. I'm on the board of a small science education non-profit, we teach kids from ag
Tinocular scope? (Score:2)
I'm not sure of your budget or whether you are looking at this for yourself or your son, but a trinocular scope allows human binary focus on the subject/target as well as a digital imaging output that can be displayed on a dedicated Workstation or PC. These images can then be captured and later analysed.
This is what my techs use at work for FA on PCAs... but YMMV with "bacteria to paramecium's".
Later...
USB or not... (Score:2)
I'm a geek and while I love the idea of USB microscoped, the cameras in them aren't all that great. It costs money to do right. I'd think that you can get a beautiful unpowered optical microscope on eBay or Cragislist. Make sure it's got 2 oculars and 3 or 4 objective lenses, with immersion. For use inside, a LED flashlight works quite well as a light source. You'd also be well advised to read up on stains. They make optical microscopy way more fun.
Hay Infusion (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't comment on modern microscopes because I haven't used one in years. But whichever one you decide on, be sure to concoct a hay infusion. Get a jar full of pond water and add a handful of hay or even grass clippings. Put it aside somewhere in the garage where it can stink without bothering people too much. It will yield up the most wonderful assortment of one-celled critters for your microscopic viewing pleasure--paramecia, volvox, those wonderful beings called stentors--and lots of other great stuff besides.
I write this with appreciation for the best high school biology teacher of all time, Mr. Ford, whose hay infusion was legendary for the amazing odors that emanated from it. He would periodically add more pond water or hay. A beatific smile would come over his face, and he'd say, "Oh, yeah. That's really ripe!" In all fairness, he also taught me the virtues of meticulous notes and drawings. But I suspect most of his students remember his hay infusions. Enjoy!!
Re: (Score:1)
I'm jealous. My high school biology teacher was an ultra-Christian disbeliever of evolution, and because she taught deep in the bible belt in Georgia, she was allowed to impose her stupidity on us in almost every lesson. I'll never forget how she started the chapter on Evolution in our textbooks: "Now, the law requires that I cover this nonsense, but before we begin, let me tell you what really happened [puts down biology text, picks up her ever-present bible] 'In the beginning, God created the heaven an
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
TFA is about growing an interest in science in a young kid by exposing it to the wonders a microscope can show.
It's virtually by definition such will involve teaching about evolution, ID is the antagonist to such.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Ah yes, I have fond memories of my own long-running "pond water" brew. It was all well until I brought it to school, and my friend convinced me to fill a girl's desk with it. The nun wasn't amused... :-)
Edmund Scientific (Score:4, Informative)
In 2000 Edmund Scientific was purchased by Science Kit and Boreal Laboratories, a western New York based science supply company. Science Kit and Boreal Laboratories is part of a group of companies that provide science supplies to elementary, middle, and high schools as well as colleges and universities.
Edmund Scientific [wikipedia.org] sells high quality beginner and student microscopes in all price ranges.
Edmund's prepared slide sets [scientificsonline.com] have been in their catalogs for decades. You really can't go wrong here.
When I was a kid (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
microscope for who? (Score:2)
Sounds like you want a microscope and want him to get the experience of getting to look through Dads cool microscope. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it justifies a better toy since you aren't woried about him playing with it on his own and destroying it. If that were the case, I would say get a $30 toy...
I bought a cheap "celestron" with webcam. The camera mount came apart when I put it together. I returned it tot he store, the second one had a broken camera. It was a $30 toy.
So my wife, se
A link to the same question from a few years ago (Score:2)
I doubt there have been many technology advances so the advice is probably still current [slashdot.org], but it will be interesting if there are.
Boom microscope (Score:1)
I have a boom microscope that I use for electronics work which is very popular with my kids for looking at bugs, etc. I got mine from amscope.com for something like $350.
I also have a biological style microscope which is higher power and lit from below. My kids didn't seem to have as much interest in this. Generally, one cell looks pretty much like another unless you really know what you're looking for.
Get a proper microscope (Score:5, Informative)
Get a decent microscope. "Child friendly" means "not frustrating" -- good light, smooth focus, good light, real optics, and good light. Mechanical stage for bonus points, because little fingers have a hard time moving the slide around in tiny increments.
Stereo vision isn't a big deal, but with a child of 7, I *strongly* suggest getting a "dual head" microscope. This is designed for teaching, the student has one viewing tube, and the other viewing tube can be used by the teacher or the eyepiece of the second tube can be replaced with a standard microscope video camera eyepiece. That way a parent can help with focusing, which is tricky for kids to learn. You can also talk about what they are seeing and give them a guided tour.
Remember that real optics will give a much, much sharper view than any USB microscope or video eyepiece, so adjust expectations accordingly, but we've found that it is a much more fun family activity when the microscope is set up with video in the second tube so that everyone can see and talk about the video while taking turns looking at the eye-poppingly sharp view through the optic path.
We bought our home microscope here:
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/microscopes/c/10/ [hometrainingtools.com]
they seem to have decent prices on nicer microscopes.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
to make or to build, that is the question (Score:2)
Celestron makes a $50 webcam-like (USB) eyepiece camera for telescopes, but it works nicely with microscopes as well. Celestron also sells inexpensive mechanical microscopes.
For thin specimens or slices, you want a compound microscope. For stereo images, you need a stereomicroscope (a.k.a. dissecting microscope). The two have very different d
Chap $5 to $10 60x ot 100xon ebay (Score:2)
I had the same quandary not too long ago. In the end, I decided to start small and work up. On ebay you can find cheap 60x and 100x pocket scopes which are a good starting point. The resolution and quality sucks, most come with led lights, some come with UV lights, however it is a very good starting point being portable and cheap.
Bresser Biolux NV 20x-1280x Microscope (Score:1)
It has a USB ocular which Linux recognised straight away. Feels nice and solid, with only a tiny bit of hysteresis on the adjustment knob. Nothing a child couldn't cope with.
Optics are surprisingly good quality and the light sources use a little mains adapter, which is included. No batteries required!
There are also a few sample slides included with the microscope, but Bresser sells stained slide kits separatel
What about the Tasco kits? (Score:2)
Don't they still sell the Tasco microscope kits they had when I was a kid?
I had one; it was a fairly decent microscope, and it came with slides, example specimens, cover slips and other stuff you need to mount and observe your own samples. It came with a manual explaining how to look at random things you might find in nature.
I'll be sad if you can't get these anymore! They were fairly well-made, too; real metal construction, the focus control was nicely damped and greased, etc.
Ahh Microscopes... (Score:2)
I'd make a joke about maxing ou
Bacteria (Score:2)
DIY with an optical mouse (Score:2)
Try Kosmos Verlag from Germany (Score:1)
get a proffesional one from eBay (low priced) (Score:1)
Hi,
there are many proffessional microscopes availible on ebay, and they come at a very reasonable price too, .. if USB-Scope.price > 30 US$ then don't take it.
- USB--Scopes: forget the USB-Trash
You can get laboratory grade equitment there for arround 100 US$, binoculars and microscopes as well.
btw.
You are operating it ? -> Try it the other way arround, he will learn more quickly from his OWN mistakes, rather than from yours.
You are just a supervisor(to prevent dead serious injuries of course), adviser
If you are near... (Score:2)
Minneapolis I would gladly loan you one, plus slides, cover slips and preserved specimens. Is a well cared for college lab scope. A beautiful old Nikon oil immersion. Just reply to this and we can get in contact.
LOMO Analit (Score:1)
Made by Russian company Lomo (that also makes good amateur-grade telescopes): tough, cheap, with decent optics and lighting.
There's also a cheaper version called Yunnat (Young Naturalist), but that's a bit weak.
My 2 cents (Score:2)
I bought one of these for my niece:
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/kids-led-portable-microscope/p/MI-1100LED/
I was very impressed with the quality. I would also recommend a prepared slide kit and
a slide making kit.
Buy one you'd use (Score:1)
Buying a used but well maintained lab microscope gives you solid optics, stability and motivation to use. If it's kept in a visible place, it'll trigger the want to use it.
EyeClops! (Score:2)
For kids, this is the right one.
- easy to hold
- no small parts
- looks funny
- usb
Microscope for Children (Score:2)
I think any microscope should work for children. You just need to make sure you slice the children thin enough to fit between the glass slide plates.
Electron Microscope (Score:2)
Don't worry, kids are pretty tech savvy these days. Just get him an electron microscope and he'll be able to figure it out in a jiffy. Plus he'll think you're the best dad ever!
Magiscope (Score:1)
I got my kids the http://www.magiscope.com/ when they were that age. Has a cool light tube to direct light instead of a mirror or light bulb. Has a nice gear-less mechanism for adjusting focus. Uses easy to find threaded objective lenses. Pretty much indestructible..
Virtual Microscope (Score:1)
cheap microscope (Score:1)
My First Lab Duo-Scope Microscope (Score:1)
We got this one and are pretty happy with it:
http://www.amazon.com/My-First-Lab-Duo-Scope-Microscope/dp/B000NOU54O [amazon.com]
It's not stereo, but is well-made and inexpensive. Definitely a cut above a mere toy. My kids don't use it often, but we've had it a couple years and they still pull it out occasionally when they have something to look at. I would say 7yo is old enough to start operating this kind of microscope too rather than just viewing (isn't he really going to want to do that anyway?), so something inexp
Get a real one, cheap (Score:1)
I was about his age when I got my first microscope and a few years later a chem set. Made out of bakelite from the 1940s or 1950s the light source was from a mirror below. Don't go and by the best. You won't get so mad if something happens to it. Get one with a light. Mine was missing slides and had none of the tools with it. I got very resourceful. A local hobby shop had stuff. Expensive though. No internet back then.
Being the scientist that I am today I can fast forward you a bit. You can put two sta
Re:Burn ants (Score:4, Informative)
The ant burning ones are called magnifying glasses.
Anyway, Stereo microscopes generally have less magnification, forget viewing bacteria with these, if you want to study the surface structure of wood or insect eyes, then sure, get a stero.
Otherwise, get a classic 'university-grade' turret microscope with one oil immersion objective.
Consider however that you may need dyes to stain your samples or you won't see all that much unless you get a phase contrast microscope. Consider also that you need thin translucent slices if you want to view tissues. If you just want to explore your saliva or the fauna in forest ponds, then you don't need as much.
Also, there's no microscopic pornography or ultraviolence so I'm pretty sure you can let him operate it all on his own, just make sure he doesn't oil up the normal objectives or store the slides in his mouth.
Re:Burn ants (Score:5, Informative)
>Consider also that you need thin translucent slices if you want to view tissues
You can make a microtome out of a bolt and a nut. UNF or UNEF thread pitch is helpful
Screw nut on to end of bolt by a couple of threads.
Put sample in cavity at end.
Pour paraffin wax into cavity and let cool to hold the sample in place.
Take a razor blade, screw bolt into nut by small partial turns and slice off thin slices of your sample on to slides.
taa, daa.
--
BMO
Re: (Score:2)
You know, some days I can hardly remember a name to save my life.
But things like this I will never, ever forget.
And hopefully, some day, I may even get to use it.
Re: (Score:2)
I would patent it if it wasn't in the Tasco microscope manual I had as a kid.
--
BMO - passin' on knowledge through the generations.
Re: (Score:3)
I would patent it if it wasn't in the Tasco microscope manual I had as a kid.
--
BMO - passin' on knowledge through the generations.
nothings stopping you, just put a "view the image with a computer" to the end.
on the sidenote, what's a good usb microscope?
Re: (Score:2)
>nothings stopping you, just put a "view the image with a computer" to the end.
Sigh, probably true.
>on the sidenote, what's a good usb microscope?
Don't know. Never tried one.
And after looking for 10 minutes, "How much do you want to spend?"
There are toys all the way up to industrial quality.
--
BMO
Re: (Score:2)
Probably every microscope buyer / seller pair since Leeuwenhoek has been having essentially the same conversation. We have that conversation at work every couple of years.
Re: (Score:2)
I also wonder if there's a way one could do cryosection like this. Freeze a sample in some solution of water and corn syrup such that it would be possible to section it like that.
Re: (Score:2)
>How well does that work?
It works as well as you can expect. After a couple of full turns, the sample gets loose and you have to reheat it and reseat it. It's not a lab quality microtome, but then it costs only a few cents, maximum.
But for what it is, it works surprisingly well. You can use a jam nut behind the sample holding nut to better control the turn friction.
Freeze a sample in some solution of water and corn syrup such that it would be possible to section it like that.
Freezing tends to make cel
Re: (Score:2)
Freezing tends to make cells burst open from ice crystals, doesn't it?
A 15% sucrose slurry acts as a cryoprotectant to prevent this. At least in the chicken embryos I work with.
Re: (Score:2)
This dissecting microscope looks pretty cool. [amazon.com]
I woudn't rule out compound scopes though. If he's interested in paramec
Re: (Score:2)
"The ant burning ones are called magnifying glasses."
Any lens, including microscopes and telescopes, can work in much the same manner.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not very good at sharpening a band saw. I tried. It was strangely satisfying though.
If I can get a few more donated, I'd like to try them as baking cookie sheets, shooting target backstops, and trebuchet ammunition.
Hurry up kids, send your donations, the trebuchet is almost done. The neighbors are starting to complain, so we'll have to do it soon. Maybe I shouldn't have been test firing it with neighborhood cats, free-roaming children, and random yard sa