Ask Slashdot: Hardware Accelerated Multi-Monitor Support In Linux? 278
An anonymous reader writes "I'm an Engineer with a need for 3 large monitors on the one PC. I want to run them as 'one big desktop' so I can drag windows around between all three monitors (Windows XP style). I run Debian and an nVidia NVS450. Currently I have been able to do what I want by using Xinerama which is painfully slow (think 1990s), or using TwinView which is hardware accelerated but only supports 2 monitors. I can live without 3D performance, but I need a hardware accelerated 2D desktop at the minimum. What are my options? I will happily give up running X and run something else if I need to (although I would like to keep using Xfce — but am open to anything). I am getting so desperate that I am starting to think of running Windows on my box, but that would be painful in so many other ways given my work environment revolves around the Linux toolset."
I do this currently.. (Score:5, Informative)
A pair of nvidia 9800gtx cards gives me quad DVI on which I run three monitors. The option you are seeking is basemosaic. I don't have the config in front of me or I would include it.
Re:I do this currently.. (Score:5, Informative)
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Basically, you are using a false analogy. You are trying to say that one must do things in Windows in a way that is often needed for Linux and never needed by Windows.
Re:I do this currently.. (Score:5, Informative)
That's not necessary anymore. Kepler based cards (GTX 600 and 700) support up to 4 monitors. I'm posting from 3 monitors connected to a GTX 670.
Re:I do this currently.. (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, same here on a 660. Twinview works with 3 monitors on 1 card as expected. 3D acceleration is working fine, I'm using gnome-shell (I can hear the gasps already).
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ditto but different cards. I didn't even think this was an issue.
Re:I do this currently.. (Score:5, Informative)
I can confirm that BaseMosaic on an NVS450 works under LMDE (Debian Testing) using:
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Device0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "BaseMosaic" "True"
Option "MetaModes" "GPU-1.DFP-0: 1680x1050+0+0, GPU-0.DFP-1: 1680x1050+3360+0, GPU-0.DFP-0: 1680x1050+1680+0; GPU-1.DFP-0: NULL, GPU-0.DFP-1: NULL, GPU-0.DFP-0: 1680x1050"
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
EndSubSection
EndSection
You tried arandr already? (Score:5, Informative)
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I use xrandr with Arch and Xfce and it works fine: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xrandr, so I suspect arandr for Debian will achieve the same results. How did this get past the /. moderators?
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huh? but this is working for at least 3 years now! (Score:5, Informative)
This works out-of-the-box with any number of monitors (well, as many as the number of CRTCs provided by your GPU) for ATi Radeons (both free and proprietary drivers) and Intel (free drivers).
Now, embedded Intel usually only has two CRTCs, but the newer Radeons have at least three, up to six.
You just need to configure the viewports using your preferred desktop environment or directly using xrandr or the x.org config.
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Works out of the box for me too on an NVidia based card running dual screens.
Euh, no? (Score:2)
What driver do you use ? (Score:5, Informative)
You might be using the open source driver and not the nvidia driver.
We use Two GTX220 or GT650 and plug three or four terminals withouth any hassle, but we do use the proprietary nvidia driver.
And the result is quite fast (we typically test our games on two full HD monitors while running our development tools in one or two others.
I suspect the NVS450 is also more expensive than our setup :-)
BTW we use either debian or ubuntu depending of the whim of each developper.
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Games development on linux? Do you work for Valve?
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CnlPepper, yes real Game development. Especially when Leadwerks (Kickstarter) comes out, which allows you to make AAA quality Games for Linux IN Linux. Also Unity3D can export to Linux. Ogre (Torchlight) is OK if you want something free.
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Unfortunately, while the NVS series bare the Quadro branding, NVidia does not support the professional/scientific feature sets on those chips. So, features like the unified back buffer, etc. are not available. Essentially, the NVS450 is a card with two GeForce 8400 chips and a PCI-E to PCI-E bridge. It's kinda lame.
NVidia marketing material suggests that the NVS line is intended for business users who need to support many displays without any advanced rendering.
While you're right, I imagine the NVS450 costs
Option "BaseMosaic" "boolean" (Score:2, Informative)
Try the README.txt
any nvidia MDT device (Score:2)
http://www.amazon.com/computers-accessories/dp/B0089WM7XE [amazon.com]
with the nvidia drivers version 304 or newer.
Have 2 machines each with one of these cards. drives 3 monitors one of which is even in portrait mode.
Go with NVIDIA (Score:2)
After weeks of trying to get AMD/Gigabyte motherboard and video card to drive 4 displays on linux, it just didn't work.
Tried 3 different distros, god knows how many xorg confs and driver combinations.
In the end I broke down and bought a NVIDIA GTX 760 for the following reasons.
*Drive 4 displays in Linux no problem with HW Acceleration.
*4 displays can be driven at 1920x1080.
*OpenCV has Cuda support , nothing for OpenCL yet.
*Openscenegraph has Cuda library, nothing for OpenCL yet.
*The Nvidia settings manager
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I tried to upgrade to Linux Mint 14 in January using an Radeon Card. Could not get multi-monitor to work.
Ended up back with Nvidia and it works. Four monitors, just use the nvidia drivers and nvidia settings applet.
I have subsequently upgraded the MB to a Z87 based system so am now trying to attach two monitors to the MB video as well. For those I want to have a second keyboard / mouse and run a different window manager.
I just used (Score:5, Informative)
the nvidia-settings tool to set up 4 monitors on my GTX670, there is no problem with speed and I get hw accelerated 3d on every screen. The driver is NVidia's 310.19. I used the TwinView Option on the Layout selection screen and could put the monitors into the wanted configuration with the GUI. I can move windows between the monitors and xfce gives me panels on the separate monitors.
The screen section in the xorg.conf looks like this:
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Device0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "TwinView" "0"
Option "Stereo" "0"
Option "nvidiaXineramaInfoOrder" "DFP-0"
Option "metamodes" "DFP-0: nvidia-auto-select +0+0, DFP-1: 1920x1200 +1920+1080, DFP-3: nvidia-auto-select +1920+0, DFP-4: nvidia-auto-select +0+1080; DFP-1: 1920x1200 +0+0; DFP-1: 1920x1200 +0+0"
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
EndSubSection
EndSection
and the server layout:
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Layout0"
Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
Option "Xinerama" "0"
EndSection
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For a basic multimonitor set up, you don't have to. But, you're really limiting the things you can do if you don't bother. Things like virtual multi-monitor on the same monitor and various other ways that you can combine one or more monitors.
They've got a ton of stuff in there if you bother to learn to use it. In practice though, typical set ups are automatically generated.
AMD/ATI isn't as bad as it used to be (Score:2, Informative)
My Ubuntu workstation has an HD 7950, using proprietary drivers installed from the Settings menu. Currently running three 1080p monitors, two of which are rotated portrait mode. Any HD 7xxx series card is supposed to be able to run up to six monitors, though you usually only get four outputs (six requires monitors that support DisplayPort daisy-chaining).
Oh, and I occasionally play DotA 2 on Steam for Linux on this as well. Apart from trying to start on the wrong monitor, it works very well.
Was simple for me with Nvidia (Score:3)
I feel like I'm missing something; this was dirt-simple for me.
I used to have a computer with an Nvidia card. I had Ubuntu on it. I had the Nvidia drivers installed. I had the nvidia-settings utility installed (which for some reason wasn't included by default). I plugged in the extra monitors. I opened nvidia-settings. I clicked "Detect Monitors". I enabled them. Suddenly I had several monitors without having to touch a single config file.
AMD/ATI? (Score:2)
Until a few months ago at work I was running triple-head on an Ubuntu 10.04 LTS desktop with an ATI Radeon something-or-other card. Hardware acceleration was supported. The third head was analog, but AFAIK that was just a limitation of the sub-$150 graphics card I was using (only 2 digital ports), not something inherent in X or the drivers. I was surprised to discover that triple head was even possible with an inexpensive card.
I did need to install a beta version of the proprietary drivers, and IIRC it took
Radeon HD FTW! (Score:2)
I've got four monitors (one is 2560x1600) on a single Radeon HD 6870 and it does everything you want. Running Fedora 17 with the proprietary ATI drivers, FVWM2, with a single desktop and 3D hardware acceleration. I tested F19 with Gnome and free drivers too.
I know nothing about linux (Score:2)
But if more than 2 monitors is the issue, why not get 2 of the latest really big/high res ones and stop whining?
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Yeah, really. If he needs 3 different desktops, you can always split the monitors in multiple parts using virtual servers, IIRC. For some things I find that's better. Especially with these long 16:10 monitors where they're generally too long for things like reading web pages.
Simple, forget the kiddie cards, go displayport (Score:2)
The biggest issue is that everything but displayport sucks donkeyballs. So get a firepro card from AMD with 6 display ports and run it with the linux native driver. Works fine for me. I use XFCE myself with such a setup with 3x 2560x1600. I have tried to do it with HDMI and such but run into all kinds of weird issues where displayport just works right every time.
I am to lazy to search for mine but it isn't even a 3D card so it was pretty cheap and fits in any PC (no extra power needed). If you want 3D you
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I use XFCE myself with such a setup with 3x 2560x1600.
Holy crap you have a big desk!
Out of interest since you mention anything but DP sucking, do you use the cheapie no-name IPS monitors which require a powered DP to dual-lnik DVI converter or do you use more expensive ones which take in DP directly?
Not so big after all (Score:2)
The monitors are on their side, so they are really 1600x2560. On their side they are 45cm each. It gives me a desktop where I can code long pages in the center screen and have debug and info to the left and right at eye level and info displays I need only occasionally at the top and bottom.
I have several generations of Dell monitors, U3011 and U3014. They have direct displayport. I have tried it with converter cables and it is a nightmare with having to edit x config files. The moment I switched over to pu
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The monitors are on their side, so they are really 1600x2560.
Interesting setup. I should try it some time.
I have several generations of Dell monitors, U3011 and U3014. They have direct displayport. I have tried it with converter cables and it is a nightmare with having to edit x config files. The moment I switched over to pure display port, everything just worked.
Converter from what to what? I was specifically wondering about DP to DVI, since the DVI only monitors are substantially cheaper than the Dell on
nVidia artificially restrict their driver on Linux (Score:2)
This is worth a read:
http://hackaday.com/2013/03/18/hack-removes-firmware-crippling-from-nvidia-graphics-card/ [hackaday.com]
It seems nVidia restrict you to two monitors on Linux whereas you can happily use three on Windows. I have no idea why other than that they are clearly bastards.
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I better unplug two of my four monitors really quickly! Must just be my imagination that I can see windows and drag things to them...
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Presumably you have two cards? Or one of the cards that isn't restricted.
Is this for real or to pretend there is a flaw? (Score:2)
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Sorry, but this is something that has been so easy for several years that I find it difficult to believe that you have tried it before posting. Just try it and you'll see how easy it is.
ATi + Debian (Score:2)
At work I have a multimonitor setup running Debian 7 / Gnome 3. Works perfectly. I'm using an ATi graphics card (can't remember the model) and the proprietary drivers, it's accelerated and works very well. Setup was very straightforward - run the setup for the ATi drivers, then select in the GUI how you want your displays.
FVWM pager? (Score:2)
I am not happy if I do not have at least 6, better 9 virtual desktops with quick switching. The FVWM pager gives you customizable edge-scroll, easy dragging of windows between desktops, multi-desktop spanning windows, etc. One reason Linux does not have multi-monitor out of the box is that it is almost never needed, different from Windows, where one cluttered desktop is the norm.
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Huh?
Linux supports multimonitor out of the box very well, and I say this as a die-hard FVWM user. This small-screened laptop has 30 (3x10) panels in the pager btw.
Problem with FVWM though is it doesn't respond to xrandr events which means that when you change the monitor setup, none of the windows line up any more, if you use the pager in large-virtual-desktop mode as opposed to disjoint desktop mode.
Still, it works fine with xinerama geometries.
Eyefinity (Score:3)
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So 2009. ATI (Score:2)
3 head ati cards are easy to come by.
In 2009, we did 24 displays on on PC. Each 3x2 quadrant is randr based. That is what you want.
Http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6Vf8R_gOec
Clunky, but use Xinerama (Score:2)
I've been running a three-monitor desktop for many years, and I've had to use Xinerama to get it to work. This results in some serious performance issues occasionally (I think triggered by Adobe Flash, not surprisingly) where the whole system becomes mostly non-responsive for a while. The right way of doing it is to use xrandr to configure the displays into a single logical screen. That would work great if I had a video card that could drive all three monitors. Unfortunately, I have two separate video c
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Followed by the stupidest answer ever!
Congratulations to the both of you.
Well, mostly to the answer, as the question really isn't that stupid at all.
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Sweet, it's like Stack Exchange, but with ad hominem attacks.
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Subby, you have posted the stupidest Ask Slashdot question ever!
And you posted the stupidest Slashdot comment ever. Gratz!
Re:Multi-Monitor Support in 2013?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Multi-monitor isn't the problem here. Hardware-acceleration is the problem.
Last time I checked, officiak nVIDIA driver is the only one which implements 2D render acceleration which is still marked as experimental (for like 10 years), and that is only partially supported by other GUI functionalies, such as multi-monitor - most applications/toolkits don't even know it. Hardware-acceleration except 3D for gaming is difficult with X-window because:
1) You need X-window to have that acceleration API
2) You need X-window drivers (per-vendor) to implement the acceleration API
3) You need various X-window extensions to make use of the acceleration API
4) You need GUI toolkits to provide a layer of higher-level acceleration API to support the acceleration API in X-window and make use of it
5) You may also need GUI apps to make use of the higher-level acceleration API
It cannot change overtime, and since nobody cares about hardware acceleration except gamers, there can be no acceleration for your regular 2D/GUI work, no progress in the field for so many years. About 3 years ago I can still notice that quick-scrolling on webpage appears to be much slower on x-window than winodws (using opera browser), though it doesn't hurt usability.
Download the driver (Score:2)
What do you think compiz, kde, gnome, enlightenment etc have been doing for the last decade?
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You can use 3d acceleration to generate a scene or just draw in 2d. The problem is it would require complete rewrites of the libraries used for 2d widgets.
Function Line3d( mesh, x0#,z0#,x1#,z1#, y# , r, g, b)
If mesh = 0
mesh = CreateMesh()
surf = CreateSurface(mesh)
Else
surf = GetSurf
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Hmmm. Interesting. But now the million-dollar question... are signed distance fields fast enough on any current high-end Android or IOS hardware to actually render a full page of arbitrary text that includes multiple fonts and multiple styles of those fonts? All the examples I found via Google use it to render just a few glyphs at any one time.
Realistically, if you're rendering English text and you stick to pre-loading characters that are actually used or likely to be used, you're going to need about 80-90
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It can... [youtube.com]
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But no reference to how it was done, why?
Re:Multi-Monitor Support in 2013?!? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Multi-Monitor Support in 2013?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite. I used to work on the windows display management kernel and did a ton of testing when we brought back heterogeneous in Win7. In XDDM (XP Display Driver Model), heterogeneous was allowed, but it had issues when drivers would conflict. You could find some setups that worked and some that didn't, largely based on the drivers, cards, and the alignment of the planets.
When Windows Vista came out the drivers moved to WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). This model initially disallowed heterogeneous configurations. In Win7, heterogeneous support was again allowed, partially because the OS now tracked monitor connectivity state (CCD - connecting and configuring displays). Previous versions of windows had left that to the individual drivers, which could cause conflicts and loops of bad behavior ("value add" software from vendor x sets "clone" mode, then from vendor y sets extend mode, and they fight back and forth, for example).
So in Windows, it was allowed for every release except Vista, though it wasn't really supported or tested well until 7 and beyond.
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Somehow, manufacturers keep their Windows driver code entirely closed, yet still manage to support multiple monitors.
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Ok, Linux needs help in the video department, but its more the fault of the manufacturers who want to keep their code licensed in such a way that it exludes OSS.
To me (and to the submitter, I bet) it's more important to get accelerated multi-monitor going than the code being open source.
Re:Multi-Monitor Support in 2013?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, the days of using separate video cards for 2D and 3D support. It was "cool" to have a setup like that, but somehow I was never interested and held out for the TNT2.
> Oh, the days of using separate video cards for 2D and 3D support.
> It was "cool" to have a setup like that, but somehow I was never interested and held out for the TNT2.
And thanks to mass-market consumers who did the same thing, we ended up with video GPUs today that are basically a pimped out 3DFX stapled onto a dumb framebuffer, with no real 2D acceleration to speak of.
Instead of getting hardware-accelerated B-splines and the ability to render subpixel-hinted scalable fonts via hardware in realtime sometime around 2006 like we were supposed to (going by ATI's roadmaps), we have Android and IOS hardware built around GPUs that couldn't render a full page of hinted dealiased text a-la-Postscript to display memory in 1/60th of a second if the future of their manufacturers' companies depended on it. Because 3D is trendy, hot, and sexy, and 2D isn't.
Joe Sixpack doesn't know what a B-spline or subpixel rendering is, but he knows that 3D is "cool", and a GPU that has "more triangles" is better (the same way he "knew" a 1.8GHz Pentium 4 was better than a 1.1GHz Pentium III Xeon, and even ran out to buy a new laptop with one).
That's why Android & IOS-based e-readers suck for interactively reading technical books that require constant page-flipping. They lack 2D spline acceleration, so they have to do everything via brute CPU force. They're too slow to render pages from scratch in realtime with "real book" aesthetics, they don't have enough memory to pre-render the whole book to ram, and they're too slow to fetch entire pre-rendered arbitrary pages from microSD in 1/60th of a second or less(*).
(*) The fastest microSD interface on any known Android phone maxes out around 25MB/s.... and a 32-bit 1280x800 bitmap weighs in around 4MB. Real-world Android phones like the S3 generally max out around 17MB/s. The fastest UHC-1 Sandisk Extreme cards have a theoretical max of 95MB/s, which STILL isn't fast enough to fetch the ~187MB/sec required for realtime brute-force 1280x800x60fps @ 24 bits. In theory, the 62MB/s required to fetch 8-bit grayscale at 60fps might be do-able on a future phone with UHC-1 microSD, but no current device can do it.
Re:Get a Mac, it just works ... (Score:4, Informative)
No, it doesn't just work. I have a very nice triple monitor Mac setup. Besides the obvious price issue, here are my two major complaints (there are other more nitpicky ones I won't get into).
1. Sound. I had to download a third-party app called Soundflower to get the sound to work the way I want. (Actually, the way I want is for the sound of the app on a given monitor to come from that monitor's speaker, but that's asking for unicorns so I just settled for using left and right monitors for stereo.)
2. Fullscreen. Fullscreening any app on a monitor blanks out the other two monitors.
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2. Fullscreen. Fullscreening any app on a monitor blanks out the other two monitors.
You'll be pleased to know that apple announced that fixing this is one of the major new features of Mavericks [apple.com].
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The new round Mac Pro is an absurd product, as has been amply discussed.
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MacBooks can't even drive 3 displays, and nobody would buy a Mac Pro right now.
I believe the 27" iMac with Thunderbolt supports two external displays. With the built-in that is three displays.
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I regularly have two 2560x1440 cinema displays through the thunderbolt/displayports and a 1920x1200 monitor through the HDMI port.
I wanted more though, and for less than $2K you can get a powerful multi-monitor Mac setup today.
With the hope of improved multi-monitor support in Mavericks and the 2013 Mac Pro months away and disappointing I bought a Mac Pro.
Got a good deal on eBay for a used Mac Pro 2009.
Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 and a NVIDIA GeForc
yes it can. *nix for graphics = Mac (Score:2, Troll)
I used Linux exclusively for fifteen years. I contributed to the kernel. When the boss put me on a Mac, I was surprised to discover how familiar it felt. I can use it just like Linux, with exactly the same workflow. The main difference is the cost of a Mac buys you nice hardware that "just
lmgtfy (Score:3)
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It just works until your video card dies and you have to pay out the ass for a new one, or go the risky route of flashing the ROM of a PC video card. I used to be a long-time Mac user, but I switched to Linux after I got sick of Apple's overpriced hardware and propensity for screwing over pro users with hardware that can't be upgraded past a certain point. (I had a first-gen Mac Pro, which despite having a 64 bit CPU had 32 bit EFI firmware and the generation of PCIe that was already obsolete when the Mac P
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VirtualBox supports a lot of monitors with Linux guests, too. Can't vouch for how well it works, though, I only needed one monitor at once...
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I'm getting the idea that the post is a troll since the nvidia drivers are just as capable on nearly every OS they are available for.
No one would bother to craft a lame troll like that. I myself also found surprising that his setup was not supported properly, but I simply do not suspect that the post is a troll.
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Re:You've only got one real choice here (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, because Wayland has the magic pixie dust which makes the drivers support things that they never did before.
Re:Run windows... with linux VMs (Score:5, Informative)
So why not just run windows and fire up a linux VM to run your tools in?
Because Linux does support it out of the box. I have no idea what the user has done, but me and many other posters find that the nvidia drivers support multiple accelerated monitors with no trouble whatsoever.
There seems to be some odd issue with his setup. This therefore seems to me more of a question for a slower, more persistent help problem where he can post debugging output and have some experts look at it.
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As far as I know, you can load as many NVidia cards into your box as you have PCIe slots to handle them and load those with as many monitors as they can handle and get full acceleration on all of them on Linux.
What you may not get is 2D acceleration which Windows got favoured with years ago by drivers that are OS specific.
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What you may not get is 2D acceleration which Windows got favoured with years ago by drivers that are OS specific.
Seems unlikely. I remember getting solid 2D acceleration across 4 cards before. I think it was an unholy mix of 2 nvidia cards, a Savage 4 and a Matrox. All PCI.
I remember quite specifically, since the unaccelerated XFree86 drivers where risible and gave astonishingly poor scrolling perfomance. I remember an Acorn user mocking this in fact since RiscOS had amazing 2D performance in software by c
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many people do this (and with more than three monitors) on Linux, just a matter of the right card and driver; you're imaging a massive response to the non-issue you fabricated between your ears?
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just a matter of the right card and driver
I specifically said "trivial" for a reason. If I have to hunt out a particular model of graphics card (which may or may not still be on the market by the time someone who's had some success reports it in a public forum, I identify the need for it and go looking), then it's not trivial.
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If I have to hunt out a particular model of graphics card
Yeah, very hard. The model is called an "nvidia".
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I'm using two completely different nVidia boards to drive 3 monitors, one of which happens to be a 3D monitor (which is why I have two cards to begin with, needed a newer card for 3D monitor support). It was extremely simple to set up. In fact I can't even remember having to do anything other than plug in the cards an monitor, I don't think I ever opened up the nvidia control panel tool to configure it.
Let's hear about more than yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
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Not if you want half-decent performance it's not, which is precisely what this post is all about.
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The reverse often works better for games and Windows specific software auch as Outlook or a great deal of CAD software. If your software needs the bare metal performance of vendor supported access to the graphics, such as many games require now, then I've found virtualizing the Linux to be far more efficient.
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Mac or gentoo? Hm...what a strange suggestion. Buy an expensive system where (almost) everything will work right away, but you're fucked if you want to do something not preordained? Or build a system where you can do literally anything you want...but it won't boot right until you've fucked with it for a week? Choices, choices...
Too bad there's no middle ground, huh?
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This is why Linux will never be mainstream.
Yeah, because running three monitors at once is so mainstream. :rolleyes: