Ask Slashdot: Prioritizing Saleable Used Computer Books? 219
g01d4 writes "I volunteer at a used bookstore that supports the local library. One of my tasks is to sort book donations. For > 5-year-old computer books the choices typically are to save it for sale (fifty cents soft cover, one dollar hardback), pack it, e.g. for another library's bookstore, put it on the free cart, or toss it in the recycle bin. I occasionally dumpster dive the recycle bin to 'rescue' books that I don't think should be pulped. Recently I found a copy of PostgresSQL Essential Reference (2002) and Programming Perl (1996). Would you have left them to RIP? Obviously we have very limited space, 20 shelf feet (storage + sale) for STEM. What criteria would you use when sorting these types of books?"
By Year... (Score:5, Interesting)
You'll end up putting a few great books farther down the line than you otherwise would, but sorting by publication date will ensure that the vast majority of the books are still relevant.
If you've got time, sort by quality. You're the expert, though, and your time is limited. Would you prefer something that is good enough - and done, or something that's perfect
Re:By Year... (Score:5, Interesting)
I might add, for the questionable books, put them in a box and list them on one of the online auctions for cheep or something- buyer pays shipping. There might be an admin out there that inherited something old and needs reference material or perhaps a kid getting a hand me down system and wants to make use of it.
Try to make the same cash as you would selling it in store, but make sure your supervisor or someone else in charge knows about it so it doesn't appear like you are taking books and selling them on the side.
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http://www.emsps.com/oldtools/ [emsps.com]
What is one man's junk is sometimes another man's treasure, but you are probably not interested in holding onto what may or may not be junk forever. These guys seem to be in the business of warehousing old stuff and may gladly pay the shipping before you dumpster it all.
You will be doing somebody a great service by slipping your discards to someone who has the resources to remarket these old treasures. Its not so much emsps, b
Re:By Year... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know, Programming Perl would be more relevant to more people than anything written in the last couple of years.
Re:By Year... (Score:5, Informative)
That book is great and has aged really damn well. I still dig out my second edition copy from time to time. The "gory details" section is great when you are trying to figure out some obscure incantation that some sadistic bastard left as a present for you in a legacy script.
I'd still recommend reading that book cover to cover to anyone that wants to learn perl. You won't be a guru, but you'll have a pretty solid foundation.
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Yeah, sort by year, but for the computer languages you'll still want at least one per language, and if the latest in the library is 1996, then keep it.
I guess you could also rank by Amazon Customer Rating if pushed.
Hopefully the library isn't in the habit of buying references on faddish technologies, because they pass so quickly yet they could end up taking significant shelf space in a purely ordered by date system.
Re:By Year... (Score:5, Informative)
I'd add a bit of rough categorization here based on my own buying patterns.
Applications (Office, Photoshop, etc) have a very short shelve life. Anything over a couple of years old is useless.
Languages (Perl, PHP, Ruby); throw away after a decade or so. It differs though; old C books may still apply, old Java books less so.
Theory (algorithms, methodologies); should be good for a long, long time.
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This!
Pure age is not the wisest. For example "The Mythical Man-Month" is still relevant as it was 1975 or "Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code" as of 1999. Certain things never change and that are the things that transcend specific technologies. You want to keep these. As GP said, specific technologies slowly die out and you should take his/her advice...
Re:By Year... (Score:4, Funny)
I scan all my old books page by page. That way I always have a copy.
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It's modded funny, but it seems like a fine way to get DRM-free ebooks, just like you can get superior quality music by ripping CDs vs. downloading MP3s. OCR software has advanced recently, and if you have an automatic book scanner it may not be that much of a hassle. Not only do you get a DRM-free copy in any format, you also bypass the legal hassles with downloaded goods (often can't legally give away, sell or pass on as inheritance).
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Re:By Year... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Did you realise that these so-called "volunteers" don't even get paid!
Too late (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Too late (Score:5, Interesting)
You might be right.
Google a sentence out the the beginning of some chapter that looks kind of unique. Google it in quotes.
If the book shows up somewhere on the web, trash it.
You are not doing humanity any favors by keeping those fibers out of the recycle chain.
(If you are worried about the apocalypse start saving gardening books, not computer books.)
Re:Too late (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Too late (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't get me started about their + operator change either...
Re:Too late (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Too late (Score:5, Informative)
Use Amazon (Score:4, Informative)
It is even easier than that. Just go to Amazon and check the used book price for each book. If the book is selling for a dollar or less, there probably isn't any demand. Set whatever threshold is worth your time, whether that is $2 or $20, and toss the rest.
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I have a stack of graphic novels, left behind when I moved in to a rented house.
I listed them on Amazon.co.uk, and sold a couple for (after fees + my costs to post) about £10. Then one sold for around £5 -- after fees and postage, I'd have made about £1. It wasn't worth the time it takes to carefully package the book. I don't know how the people selling things for £0.01+postage (£2.70?) make any money -- it's certainly not possible for an individual to compete. My colleague
Re:Use Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.pricecheck
If it sells for a penny, pulp it.
If it sells for a dollar, give it away.
If it sells for more, sell it.
Or whatever thresholds you like.
Let the market decide... (Score:4, Insightful)
"X" depends on your turnover, space, and how many books are coming in. Since you're space limited, get rid of the oldest ones first.
Re:Let the market decide... (Score:4, Insightful)
I let the market decide by seeing what Amazon is selling used copies for. If it's 1 cent plus shipping, it gets tossed. "PostgreSQL Essential Reference"? Trash. "Programming Perl" 1st edition? Gone! This has worked quite well for helping cull my personal old book collection. It's easier to get rid of something if I know I can always replace it, should there come an improbable day I would need that ancient book again.
Re:Let the market decide... (Score:5, Informative)
Bookfinder.com is a quick and easy search that covers Amazon as well as several other used book sources. It's got an ISBN search so you can see how well a particular version is doing on the market. My wife and kids have used it to pick up college text books.
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It wouldn't surprise me if some of the older O'Reilly first edition books have started to become valuable.
And if not valuable as first editions, at least valuable to the guy who inherited a boatload of perl 4 apps and need to read about it to find out what the differences are to perl 5.
Sometimes I wish there were a bookdiff that would go through editions and highlight the differences only...
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Keep anything you think might sell. Track by acquisition date. If it's not gone in X months, throw it on the free cart. Another month, toss it.
"X" depends on your turnover, space, and how many books are coming in. Since you're space limited, get rid of the oldest ones first.
This is the right answer. From the OP, the only options to him were:
One thing not explained: is there any financial consideration given by other libraries that they might send books to? I would take that option right off the list, or as a last option just before recycling. Other libraries probably have the same problem, and your unsellable books are
Re:Let the market decide... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not sure that's a problem, the books would at least be avoiding the dumpster or recycler.
Re:Let the market decide... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, no. That only works if there's only one clever person (per book). Otherwise, they'll find out "snooze, you lose."
Give older editions to beginners, the curious ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Recently I found a copy of PostgresSQL Essential Reference (2002) and Programming Perl (1996). Would you have left them to RIP?
When I replace a book with a newer edition I set aside the older edition. Sooner or later a relative, friend, co-worker, someone will express an interest in learning to program or learning some new area. My old K&R The C Programming Language, Foley and van Dam Fundamentals of Interactive Computer Graphics, etc all found new homes this way. Why toss out a book that someone curious might want to take a look at?
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K&R C and the Folley/van Dam book are classics of computing. Those represent a tiny chunk of the used book market though, not really representative of the average old book. Books that have later editions at all are generally a good sign of quality. It's reasonable to bin those separately from the one-shot books and prefer keeping them around. By that standard, an old "Programming Perl" *might* still be useful to someone who just doesn't want to spring for a newer version, while "PostgreSQL Essential
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It's getting difficult to find any tech books at physical bookstores any more, not just used. And the gasoline costs + paying full retail price really make it hard to justify not firing up Amazon and one-clicking with prime.
Further, when Amazon fully offers guaranteed same-day delivery it's going to be even tougher to justify running out to bricks-and-mortar store to have a book in hand immediately. It will just depend on demand for what's worth stocking in their warehouses, i.e. whether the book you want
Donate to Goodwill (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of technical books end up being sold on ebay or through Amazon's used book dealer network. If you give stuff to Goodwill, chances are it will end up in one of those places if it has any resale value.
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Re:Donate to Goodwill (Score:4, Funny)
I'm gonna pop some books. Got 20 dollars in my pocket. I'm I'm hunting, looking for a COM book.
This is fucking awesome!
References become dated (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say the reference book has likely become outdated and current info is easily found on the internet.
But books like the Perl Camel book - much more than merely a reference - those are valuable for long after their topic is upgraded.
My 2 cents. Good luck...
Re:References become dated (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, depending on when it was bought it may have come with all of the "animal books" about Perl on CD with it (mine did anyway). And, your local library may have a Safari subscription - mine does. No need for paper in the majority of cases. As a teacher its great because I can assign just a few great chapters from various books and not cost the student $250 in books for a 3 credit class.
What To Keep, What To Pitch (Score:4, Informative)
Java--anything that doesn't say Java2 keep.
Spring -- anything
Application servers--keep anything.
Anything Windows--pitch. Anybody buying used books won't be able to afford Visual Studio.
Anything A+ -- pitch. Don't encourage that dead end.
Anything Networking--pitch, another dead end.
Anything design related--keep.
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Anything Networking--pitch, another dead end.
So say people that don't know what a network is.
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Yeah, but the entire Microsoft stack is expensive.
Visual C++ Express: $0
Visual C# Express: $0
Visual Basic Express: $0
SQL Server Express: $0
MS provides plenty of options for people to develop on their platform without having to shell out any money.
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Second, I've never had a job that expected anyone to know both Java and
Third, I have never been asked to spend a dime on anything I was learning. Learning "stuff" does not seem that fruitful to me.
Lastly, where do you get off saying I'm fricking
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2. the operating system isnt dying, anybody who doesnt live in their mom's basement reading nothing but LKML can see that
3.
for learning basic programming it doesnt matter what language you use, for most actual development you use a low-level language that can be compiled natively to run just about anywhere and then use a platform specific UI (.Net on Windows, Android's Java API on Android, iOS's objective-c SDK on iOS). its not like you learn
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In NYC, having
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Wow...
Any "enterprise" that isn't at a minimum strongly exploring mobile is missing the boat big time. We're at a point now where everything in enterprise should be considering mobile. .Net development is far from "button pusher". The fact is C#/.Net is really Java, only done right. MS had the benifit of seeing all the major ways Java screwed up and were able to avoid all that baggage and effectively leap frog it.
The raw ignorance you're expressing is honestly incredible.
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It meant you were akin to a script kiddy: Why we don't hire .NET coders [expensify.com]
So you advocate for Java and then link to a blog post you obviously have not read because all those points apply equally to Java and in the article itself it points that out and it also links to Joel Spolsky's post on why the Java path is a bad idea. Advocating for .Net over Java or Java over .Net in terms of 'what language should I learn' is largely just blatant fanboyism.
Not entirely true. .net implementations on non windows operating systems (mono and .gnu are the big ones) have very little development or support where java actually is cross platform and well supported on all major OS's and many processors architectures. As for what is a better language outside of that it is pretty much a pissing contest.
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Sounds like a job for Wikipedia (Score:2)
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I have yet to find anything "missing" from the express edition. I am sure there are some high level developer tools, a
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Definitely crippleware in your sense of the word, but entirely functional. Most of the features are not used in daily life.
Agreed. The Express version comes with all the good stuff of Visual Studio: IntelliSense, optimizing C++ compiler, .NET support, edit-and-continue, integrated debugger, and what else. One feature you might miss is the support for building 64-bit binaries, but usually you won't be shipping 64-bit stuff under Windows anyway. Profiling support has also been removed.
Sell it to Intellectual Property Law Firms (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Sell it to Intellectual Property Law Firms (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly, the last copy of the PenPoint Interface Guidelines I sold on Amazon was to such a law firm.
Fundamentals (Score:5, Insightful)
Save anything that is foundational or fundamental to any particular field. Any book that continues to be cited academically or has increased in value on the used market should probably be kept.
My local public library system foolishly trashed some true classics in algorithms, graphics, and fractals simply because they were old. Now all you find in the stacks are books focused on instruction for specific software applications, books which are certain to be obsolete in a few years.
Re:Fundamentals (Score:5, Insightful)
This.
Books on the theory of computing, physics, mathematics, and so on far outlive reference manuals. Keep texts that describe things like O(n) notation, matrix and vector math, graphics, simulations, and so on.
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Try to explain that to your average library worker, for whom a computer is a mere tool, and all they know about computing that in a few years a computer is considered old and obsolete, is replaced, and they have to relearn the applications all over again - hence all books about computing must be obsolete in a similar timespan...
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Some of them even increase in value.
To give examples that are not computer-related, I have been trying to find an affordable copy of Fishburn's classic Utility Theory for Decision Making from 1970 and it costs more than 100 Euro now. (Well, on Amazon.com it lists as $2,396.90 new and $1,899.33 used but I think we can safely ignore this offer. Amazon just sucks.) Or, try to find a copy of the classic (and IMHO best) text about communicating with aliens, Freudenthal's Lincos - Design of a Language for Cosmic
Non tool specifics. (Score:3)
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There's a programming language for foo?!? Surely that's overkill. I mean, C++ does some overkill, but foo was a variable for K&R. The other is worse, though: bar is an engineer's variable modifier, kindof like a subscript. To devote a whole pogramming language to it just seems a little grandiose and wasteful.
Ya know... (Score:4, Insightful)
We worked really hard in the 70s on so you wouldn't need books. Everything I did was documented with roff/runoff. This begat, in a roundabout way SCRIBE which begat SGML which begat HTML.
I've programmed C since 1974 and still do, daily. I've bought K&R, twice (and have touched a mimeographed copy dmr made pencil notes in belonging to Jim Fleming) and the O'Reily MySql book to get a fucking update statement right in 1997. Fifty bucks for one page. Other than that I just haven't found a need for them. And I've done pretty much everything.
In the post-Internet era what is it exactly you can't learn about computers without a book. I don't even want to hear it's "easier". I'm used to not doing it and fins it much less efficient, especially for this kind of stuff where I'm one click away from a local file as opposed to go find the book, find the page...
Read K&R, Read Knuth. The rest you can easily live without.
(Skip the TeX stuff though, he went insane at some point)
Re:Ya know... (Score:4, Insightful)
Books can provide a nice "all inclusive" feeling for a broad topic, or even a specific one. There are lots of great online resources, but most are limited in scope, and learning that way can have a piecemeal feeling to it. Sometimes it's nice to have a topic covered from a starting point to an ending point by the same author(s) and in a consistent style.
Good example would be "Programming Perl". Sure, you can learn perl in pieces from the gazillion online resources (perlmonks is awesome), but if you read the book cover to cover, you get a kind of well thought out guided path through the language. Personally I've still got my (second edition) copy and occasionally dig it out... it's aged well and makes a great resource.
I'll admit I haven't read a book on anything computing related in a while, but I fear that's more because I haven't really learned anything thoroughly in a while, which kinda scares me...
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How much do you want for your old copy of Kids These Days?
Re:Ya know... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure how helpful your anti-book rant is going to be for a volunteer at a bookstore which helps a library, which happens to be a subculture which is going to be immune to any argument you make, no matter how well presented. They rather like their books, you see, and some of the people they serve don't have computers. Should they come to the library to read the books online?
I will say that I bought an e-Ink device precisely so I could read stuff I got from the internet, in a book like format. I much prefer it, and I can't defend my preference any more than you can argue that I should prefer chocolate or vanilla. I just like it.
If I am one click away from a local file, I would open it instead of the book. But I rarely am. How many times a day are you one click away from the book you need? If your answer is anything other than "okay I was exaggerating" you are weird. Seriously, most people don't keep books on the desktop or in a folder that is always visible.
If I had to plug in an external drive or DVD, wait for it to spin up, browse to the folder, find the file, and wait for the PDF reader to open up, I would open the book. I can make things sound more complicated than they really are to make my point sound more convincing.
I'm also actually quite good at finding what I want to in a book - with practice it gets easier.
Some people agree with you - you are currently at +4. So you're not wrong. But others disagree with you, and we aren't wrong, either.
Re:Ya know... (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you mean by "Skip the TeX stuff though, he went insane at some point"? Is there anything better for producing readable math with both ease and at low cost (that can be used for high quality print publishing if desired)?
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Comp Sci 20 years, applications 2-3 years (Score:4, Insightful)
I have some computer science / theory books that are twenty years old and still quite valuable. Those include Cod on relational database design theory. My Visual Basic 6 books are trash because they cover a specific, outdated version of the software.
Thinking about it further, not only are the good old books theory oriented, the ones that come to mind on authored by the originators of the topic - Cod & Date, K&R, etc. The thoughts of the founding fathers of a discipline are always relevant.
What my local library does with books donated (Score:2)
My Local library sells any books donated to them so they can use that money to buy more books.
Go figure. They got a book, so instead of loaning it out, they sell it for less then it costs to buy another book. Great system.
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My Local library sells any books donated to them so they can use that money to buy more books.
Go figure. They got a book, so instead of loaning it out, they sell it for less then it costs to buy another book. Great system.
Because a good librarian will keep the collection alive with books that enough people will actually want to read. Usually libraries are not interested in just accumulating people's old junk books.
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It is a great system. It's a fantastic system.
I used to work at a library ages ago, and that's generally the system we used. We might keep a donated book, if we thought there was demand for it, but it was rare.
Because we didn't want to waste shelf space on random books people didn't want any more. Libraries generally have a pretty good idea of what books are in demand by their patrons, and selling books that won't ever be leant out lets them get books people actually want.
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Yeah, my local libraries don't in general even want book donations for them to sell for 10-cents anymore. I think that the problem is that library budgets have been cut to the bone and they just don't have the money to pay their staff to deal with all of this extra stuff. Here's what one NYC library system has to say about this:
Older books can still be of use (Score:2)
Programming books are best (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to work at a used bookstore, and I was in charge of our computer books section. My experience was that programming books would sell the best - I would put them on the shelf, no matter how old they were, and they would sell. You'd be surprised to see that some still look up for $10-20 on Amazon too, even at over 10 years old. Java & C/C++ sold the best, but they would all sell, I always had empty room on those shelves. The next best sellers were database/server books, then recent Windows OS/recentish OS X/any Linux books. Older OS books (especially older Windows books), most application books, and most how-to-use-a-computer/internet/laptop/etc books did not sell well unless they were less than a year old.
So I would have also rescued your two books - I think they were good choices, and are likely to sell even though they are old. I would use the above criteria for determining what to keep, and if space is an issue, I'd limit some of the OS/application/textbook sort of stuff to 2-3 years back instead of 5 rather than get rid of older programming & server/database books.
Amazon Sales Rank? (Score:5, Interesting)
Could you whip up a little tool that would scan the barcode, query the item on Amazon, and see what the sales rank is? There you'd have market telling you what is in demand and what is not. I'd bet (not looking now) the Knuth books have a decent used sales rank while "Learning Filemaker 2.1" does not.
Find your threshold(s) and have the tool tell the clerk [shelve,sell,recycle].
Is there a PDF? (Score:3)
These books are all just copies, not original manuscripts. And O'Reilly books were never a work of art as a medium. Be ruthless.
If you ever really do need an old edition of the Camel Book, it is available as a PDF download.
As for, K&R C and the Folley/van Dam book - well, some things are special cases. I still have mine. But as above, very few books are as important as those.
Things to dump or keep (Score:4, Informative)
Dump anything that is titled "for Dummies" or "Learn $X in $Y days!"
Keep anything, no matter how old, from O'Reilly books.
The Imposible Dream (Score:3, Interesting)
I contacted some author and almost everyone wants to release the content of their books for free, but this can not be possible since the copyright of the books belongs to the publishers.
The publishers are big companies and you don't even know to whom ask permission for this and some of them don't want to give anything from their IP. (I even tried once with MS Press by Twitter and never got an answer).
Do we have to wait a 100 (or something like that) years for the content to be public domain? or does anybody knows any trick on some publishers to open some of their content?
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There's nothing to be done about old books. What authors can do is work clauses like this into their publishing contract, now, for new books that are written. From practical experience trying that, it's extremely hard to do that if you're an unpublished author. But if you've had a successful book already, it's possible to leverage that into future books eventually being available under a free license.
Since quite a bit of the computing book market is constantly being rewritten to stay current, if enough a
Tough call (Score:2)
On the one hand, RIP 'cause they're obsolete. On the other hand, there's a lot of obsolete stuff still in use that will be in use for a long time. The trick is getting those obsolete books to the people maintaining those obsolete systems. The chances of someone needing a 90s reference book that you have walking into your bookstore are pretty slim. Maybe you can list them on ebay.
*Some* old ones are valuable (Score:5, Insightful)
The APPLE II BASIC programming manual by Jef Raskin currently goes for $52 and up on Amazon. A few years ago I found a late-'90s book on embedded systems programming that turned out to be in demand and later sold for about $100 on Amazon. So look up anything unusual, specific, or that might have nostalgia value there or on Bookfinder.com before you recycle them or sell them for a buck or two.
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Despite what you think, all of what you say is funny.
Some of it is funny ha-ha, and the rest is funny-queer.
Funny's a funny word.
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and the rest is funny-queer.
Funny-preferring intimate relationships with people of the same sex?
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When you get a book like that the best place to check is ebay. When I was recently throwing out my old books I had a few books that amazon placed in the $100 range and ebay had a bunch at $.10; did not think that a 3rd edition of a management book that was currently near edition 20 would be of that much value.
Pretty simple rules (Score:2)
If it's for either the current version of a technology or is for a technology that is version free - keep it. e.g. The Data compression book [amazon.co.uk], and The Pragmatic Programmer are both 15 years old but are still great books that people could learn a lot from.
If it's for a technology that has had a newer version (or versions) released - probably bin it. Even a book a couple of years old will be massively out of for technologies that are advancing rapidly. e.g. a book on how to develop for iPhones that was release
Solution is Speculative Accumulation (Score:2)
Keep art, edu (Score:2)
Have a look at any good bookshop with a 'computing' section. Computer graphics and fundamental CS/math education books seem to have a few extra years in them.
Programming languages, mobile related, tax, product guides seem to have a life under a year with massive version drift.
Eat them! (Score:2)
My system.. (Score:4, Informative)
1. I keep most programming books, in fact I still have 8086 assembly and qbasic on my shelf. My rational is they are as useable today as they were twenty years ago. However, books like HTML3 were recycled years ago.
2. Technical books get recycled after ten years. I.e. Windows 95 for retards, Ethernet the definitive guide, Astrisk, CNE study guide, Master Fedora 3, Absolute FreeBSD. However, a book like "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System" would be kept as it is a reference book ooperating system design... which fundamentally hasn't changed in thirty years.
3. I unconditionally keep all math, chem, electronics, science type reference books. It's not as if the laws do the universe are going to change anytime soon.
Basically, open the book up to a random section, if it is still relevant (I.e. calculus, electronics principles, x86 assembly programming, c programming, perl cookbook, etc.) keep it.
Use vs. Collect (Score:2)
However, there are a few cases where the book may be more of interest from a collectable/historical perspective. I have a battered copy of Programming Perl, with a copyright date of 1991--it has the pink spine. About ten years ago, I
Some old books still sell new (Score:2)
Theory, Syntax, Technology (Score:2)
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The Swiss dude (Score:2)
Re:Programming books by the inventors (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Programming books by the inventors (Score:2)
Pascal not worth it, ha, I think I still have Fortran 77 books on my shelve. GCC has current compilers for both of these langanges. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
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A bit AWK-ward, though.
Richie Pascal? (Score:2)
Never heard of Richie Pascal? Wasn't he the one who sang La Bamba?
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I think I picked it up at your garage sale.
It looks great on my shelf next to the UCSD p-System reference.