Ask Slashdot: Replacing Paper With Tablets For Design Meetings? 143
New submitter faderrider (3726665) writes I work in the healthcare design industry and our firm is looking to get away from using paper during our design meetings. My first thought was to load our reports and plans on a tablet, bring a half dozen or so tablets for attendees and somehow create a local ad hoc network that would allow them to view my desktop. A little more thinking brought me to consider the value of attendees being able to mark up documents on their own, or take control of what is being viewed to talk through ideas. Is anyone else out there doing something like this and if so what are you implementing? Specifically the challenges i see are creating the local network, establishing share/control relationships between tablets and managing any documentation markups attendees may make during the meeting. I am also looking at the Samsung 10.1 as the hardware but would be interested in any recommendations. I can also provide, most of the time, web access via my phone but would prefer not to rely on a service like WebEx or JoinMe.
Use Paper (Score:5, Insightful)
You'll waste the whole meeting fiddling with the technology and getting used to the UI. Just use paper until the design is pretty stable, then go to the computer. Better yet, use a whiteboard. That's what they are for.
Re:Use Paper (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly.
We've been using wheels for thousands of years and I don't see anyone complaining about that.
Use what works instead of a "solution looking for a problem."
Re:Use Paper (Score:5, Funny)
Just a fad (Score:2)
Nothing beats post it notes on windows, doors, other people's foreheads to get the creative juices flowing.
I've only seen this technique described in one of those all hands employee training meetings. You know the type, a useless meeting that is a mandatory attendance training session. Never once seen post its used in any meetings after that. What a waste of money.
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God forbid someone try to make something more efficient using technology. Electronic whiteboard alone was a massive improvement.
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This isn't star trek. I agree paper removes the obstacle to design.
Ayup (Score:1)
Paper works pretty well for getting rough drafts and design notes and whatnot else. Then scan'em and do a transcript, clean up a bit, flesh it out, and you have a design document. Same with whiteboards: Take a picture, transcript, etc.
Where paper gets wasteful is if you have to produce N copies of design documents that're ream thick, for every draft. But by then I suppose you'll have a workgroup set up with some shared storage and such.
If that doesn't seem like a reasonable tradeoff, OP should probably add
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I agree with the parent's general process, but I do have meetings each week myself with 30 attendees and quite literally a ream of paper printed for each person. The actual drawings aren't re-printed for each meeting, but an updated 75-page schedule, 150-page RFI log, and 200-page submittal log is provided to each attendee, along with about 25 pages of meeting minutes and current issues.
It is hard to have a more efficient set-up, as the meeting is basically a coordination meeting for 5 different paper-push
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All 30 of them really need to see the full RFI log? Use a projector or get a big TV. Load up the logs and now everyone can see the logs. Nobody's taking any real action in a meeting anyway, they just need reminders on what to do afterwards.
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What about distributing three tablets per person (!) : one with schedule, one with RFI log, one with submittal log - and then handle the minutes and issues whichever way.
The tablets (hopefully thin and nice to handle) would actually be e-ink readers, or have high res monochrome LCD or just regular displays showing static mostly black and white content, but whatever let's ignore the technical aspects of the tablets. What matters is the content, and the tablets are "disposable" and meaningless - the people wh
Solution (Score:2)
Paper consumption would drop to almost zero.
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Potentially slower security leaks using paper too.
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^ The parent's comment goes to eleven.
I use an Android tablet with Evernote (and great handwriting-based input) every day, and yet the greatest benefit it has is letting me take pictures of the whiteboard and go back through them when I do the real design document in a desktop word processor. :-)
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Re:Use Paper (Score:4, Interesting)
You'll waste the whole meeting fiddling with the technology and getting used to the UI.
I'm old and retired and far past meeting age (thank god). But my take is.
You'll not only waste the first meeting. Probably much of the first six meetings. And significant chunks of later meetings. And probably you'll need to spend time training any new participants in later meetings.
And ... you probably want computers with real keyboards so people can type notes and make corrections and not have to worry about spurious touches doing stupid things.
I've never encountered any sort of computer drawing tool that wasn't excrutiatingly painful when compared to paper and something pencil-like. Doesn't mean one or more don't exist. But usability for graphics in a free wheeling environment really is something you should consider.
Not that what the poster wants isn't desirable. But what is really wanted is probably a process that can be "imported" and adopted to local needs, not a technology you can order 8 of from your hardware monger. In particular one should view any off-the-shelf commercial solution with the same attitude you'd take toward a large dog who is growling at you and foaming a bit around the mouth.
Would salesmen lie to you? You betcha. It is what salesmen do.
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From which I can infer you've never used a really decent graphics tablet + stylus. It's the standard tool of the many, many artists who have given up physical media to go digital. Of course, it's not a convenient thing for everybody to use in a meeting.
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I have a couple and they're only really good if your final product is digital in original intent. If not, they're far less responsive than the physical processes. Your key phrase is "given up physical to go digital". That's an up front choice which then empowers the tablet. Otherwise, the tablet is anything but ad hoc.
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Dead on. I haven't used such. My first two questions would be.
1. How easy are they to use for someone whose usage is only an hour or two every few weeks? There's a lot of stuff out there that's great if you use it all the time but are somewhere between annoying and hateful for the casual user.
2. Can you easily mix in and edit text -- including, and especially. code or pseudo-code fragments? This seems to software design tooling, not storyboarding or conventional artwork production.
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Shit dude, why not just use both. How expensive are those sheets of paper and pencils, that you can not throw a few more round on the desk along with the tablets. Pencils are not just pencils, colour, hardness, point shape, pressure used, how many uses over the same area, direction of use and even smudging with your finger, all count. So sure tablets are a useful tool but most definitely not as the only tool.
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Re:Use Paper = FASTER (Score:2)
Design discussions proceed fast and with dozens of suggestions. Post-it notes and yellow pads are extremely quick and if a partner wants a copy of your notes, a cellphone camera shot will do it pronto.
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Dear God WHY? (Score:1)
Paper works great. get better lighting and cameras to capture and share your work on paper. Paper doesn't crash, paper always has a hard-copy backup, and paper can be HUGE, which is great for collaboration. We use 24x36" sheets and stick them to the walls. There is no digital system that can cover an entire wall and give everyone a giant scratch pad.
Re:Dear God WHY? (Score:4, Funny)
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I have a repository for a project that's been going on for a few years and has a few hundred photos of whiteboards. Trying to find one is almost impossible because there's no full-text search for photos of whiteboards.
Isn't that exactly what Evernote [evernote.com] is supposed to be able to do?
Re:Dear God WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
Paper doesn't scale very well. I have a repository for a project that's been going on for a few years and has a few hundred photos of whiteboards. Trying to find one is almost impossible because there's no full-text search for photos of whiteboards.
Then you (or they) are doing it wrong.
IMO, any and all meetings should have an agenda, stuff happens (notes/etc), and a follow up summary. That last part is what you appear to be missing.
Stick someone in charge of doing the wrap up.
(optional) Everyone should send their (brief) notes to that person or group at the end of the meeting.
Said person then writes up what was covered, logs the white board pictures and such (obtaining ID's or URL's in the process of doing so), and puts those in their summary doc.
FTS (full text search) will find the summary, and you can find the relevant white board pics from there.
One could also add a lot more document management stuff (just an example, but knowledgetree can work well), and add comments and tags to each individual whiteboard image.
Any text on the whiteboard could be transcribed as well and included in the summary doc and/or the image metadata.
More work? yes.
Much more work? no (most of that should already being done, else the meeting was either insubstantial or a huge waste of time... in either of those cases, the summary should be trivial to write: link to previous summary + note of "not much has changed").
Much more useful? yes.
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Ideally, yes. However, I've never seen any actual comments/corrections when people are just asked for them. Maybe that's fine, but I think everyone should be paying attention enough to keep their own notes, rather than relying on the poor schmuck stuck with doing all the notations. Either way is better than the GP's untagged trough of whiteboards pics.
Evernote + Sketch (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sketch seems to be Mac only, unless I'm looking at the wrong app. The name is so generic it's impossible to tell which one you mean. Any chance of a link?
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Actually, it's called Skitch: http://evernote.com/skitch/
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Thanks, looks interesting.
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Does Evernote lay claim to everything that is on their servers, à la facebook ?
What are the security implications of having designs of future products stored on an external company's servers ?
What about the case when Evernote servers are down/unavailable ?
Genuine questions. I have only evaluated Evernote for personal use, not for a business.
The WHAT industry? (Score:4, Interesting)
>> healthcare design industry
What do you design? Interiors? Landscaping? Workspaces? Networks? Something else?
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Perhaps he works on the Obamacare website.
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Did you just make up that answer? really, not being snarky...
insurance companies, large AMCs and IHNs, and CMS make up standard fees
ACOs are driving the industry to care teams and they make up treatment plans
you know a "few healthcare workers"...how quaint
tablets (not in healthcare design industry, i have no idea what that is) in healthcare absolutely make healthcare more efficient when used correctly.
follow a complex order from floor to pharmacy and back and you will immediately see the need for automatio
LOL! How about in... (Score:2, Funny)
Replacing paper with Tablets
How about in the bathrooms? :D
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I use bash, dash and ash for that !
Just use a cheap access point. (Score:2)
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Look at Mural.ly and Boardthing (Score:3)
Boardthing is very exciting, but just coming along now. Mural.ly will let you collaboratively sketchboard, and has good mobile coverage on iOS and Android.
Have spent a lot of time researching collaborative sketching for design, and it's a real mess. There are some great collaborative whiteboards, but they're not evenly good on tablet and desktop, iOS and Android. Some need special ports. Some have presence and video/chat capability, but again, not evenly implemented everywhere.
Mural.ly would be my first stop, after a lot of research.
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(Replying to myself, yeah, I know...).
Should also point out that my research was around remote collaboration.
If you're all in the same room BY ALL MEANS USE PAPER!!!! Check out Leah Buley's work on Sketchboarding, and check out Design Studio Methodology.
There's absolutely NO reason to use remote/online collab tools over paper if you're all in the same place. You're closing off the cheapest and most flexible channel for a starter.
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Full Disc: I've taken a workshop with Dave Gray, who's driving Boardthing. I'd love it to be dominant. But it's not quite there yet.
I don't have any financial part in Mural.ly. Not even a paying customer yet - trying to get it moving in my business.
I'm enthusiastic because I looked at 60+ tools and was disappointed often. Spent $300 of company money on some hardware that didn't work out. Mural.ly isn't perfect, doesn't do all I'd like (would like interactive whiteboarding, f.e.), but it's the best compromis
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In my 60 products, looked at these, and they're very nice, but they're expensive fixed-point solutions. Not the right thing for a home office, f.e. unless you're loaded.
Boardthing, Mural.ly and a few other applications will remember what you've done while nobody's logged in. Think of them as a little like Pintrest for business, but with design tools built in.
battery power... (Score:1)
Looks like battery power will determine how long these meetings will last. Never had that problem with paper.
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eep. after 45 minutes most meetings are just one growling stomach away from turning into the thunderdome.
Whiteboards still work. (Score:2)
You know, Whiteboards still work really well. They even have fancy schmancy smart whiteboards which are networked. Hell, they make collaborative software which has some of these features.
Every time I see one of these things it seems like people are using technology for the sake of technology.
A whiteboard, an easel board, pen and paper ... all of these technologies still work well, and will continue to do so.
Or, you know, your company has much b
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You know, Whiteboards still work really well. They even have fancy schmancy smart whiteboards which are networked. Hell, they make collaborative software which has some of these features.
I read this and thought that there must be at least one OSS package to record a whiteboard or chalkboard, deleting the moving subject and automatically taking the interesting stills. I didn't find anything immediately but I did find out that you can buy a product (eBeam) for as little as $250 to record your whiteboard. It seems like this provides the balance between digital notes and traditional pen jotting.
whiteboard + camera + projector (Score:2)
I completely agree. The problem with a bunch of tablets is that everyone's off looking at different things. With a whiteboard, you can much more easily tell who's paying attention to the discussion vs. reading their e-mail.
You want to be able to save what was discussed? Bring a camera. The important thing is to take the picture without a flash from a stable location. You might have to experiment with where to take the picture from, so you don't get too much glare from the lighting in the room.
Sometimes
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That has been almost universally what I've heard.
It's out of order, or nobody knows how to use it, or the people who know how to use it look at it with disdain and continue with the plain old whiteboard. (I'm not talking about a specific brand, just the digital whitebo
Get a document camera (Score:1)
Why not get a document camera that can record still images to an SD card?
Elmo 1341-64 model Classroom Doc-Tor AP TT-12i Interactive Document Camera and ASK Proxima C3327W-A LCD Portable Projector Bundle System [amzn.com]
There are also document cameras that can record full-motion video. The model I've linked to is somewhat expensive but there are cheaper options available.
Incomplete Specs (Score:2)
Existing tools (Score:1)
"healthcare design industry" isn't a thing (Score:2)
It's a term you made up, to apply to a made up industry which fastens, remorah-like, to socialist government crap.
Re:"healthcare design industry" isn't a thing (Score:4, Informative)
Dittio on paper (Score:2)
Having tried similar rings, here are some issues we ran into:
1. Latency. Nothing breaks up a train of thought than having too wait while the tablet tried to draw on the screen.
2. Such setups ar e by nature 1 to many; i.e. only one person can draw while many can view. It's real hard for someone to make a quick note or addition like you can by walking up next to them, grabbing a marker and drawing.
In the end, utility won out over cool technology
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Best way of managing those issues I have seen is to project on a whiteboard, markup there, while someone independent is marking up the PDF files electronically. When the discussion is finished, project up the markup PDF.
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Best way of managing those issues I have seen is to project on a whiteboard, markup there, while someone independent is marking up the PDF files electronically. When the discussion is finished, project up the markup PDF.
Agreed. That's similar to what we do as well.
First things first... (Score:2)
.
What is the purpose of the meeting? How will using a tablet vs using paper enhance the meeting towards the goal?
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A white board that records (electronic whiteboards) would be very useful, but individual paper notes are also good. The focus should be enhancement, not elimination.
By the same token, you could teach your employees Teeline.
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Also, something like a Livescribe [livescribe.com] pen that records what you right might be the ultimate setup. You're letting your team use tools they're already familiar and comfortable with (ballpoint pens) while still getting the advantages of recording notes as they're taken.
OP: know how you hate it when work gives you some weird-ass, nonstandard tool to do your job ("we've decided to standardize on programming editors!")? Yeah. Why would you want to do that to everyone else?
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have you tried whiteboard paint? (Score:2)
The hospital I worked painted the walls of the conference rooms with whiteboard paint and put out baskets of dry-erase markers.
There's a drop-down screen with a projector for showing a computer screen.
There are many advantages.
You don't have to have your computer support person standing by all the time for when contractors/ sales people get in there and screw everything up.
You can have multiple people/teams in the same room working on different approaches (different walls) simultaneously while being able to
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I didn't realize they made whiteboard paint. That sounds cool.
Thanks.
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I think if you do it right, you can lay down a layer (or layers) of magnetic paint, and then a layer (or layers) of whiteboard paint.
And Google confirms [instructables.com], though that may not be the absolutely best DIY instructions (I have no idea).
So, run wild, do the whole living room. ;-)
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I'm actually thinking about doing this in the kids room (the wife even thinks it is an interesting idea).
Magnetic paint? Where the hell have I been while paint technology have been moving forward so fast???
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So, just throwing this out there ... I have never done it, and I don't know anything about the properties of this paint ... I have NO idea if you subsequently changed your mind if you can strip the paint, or if you'd need to pull down the drywall.
Truthfully, I only know about the magnetic paint and the whiteboard paint from watching home improvement shows.
But, yes, it's an awfully cool idea.
A step backwards (Score:2)
Paper exists for a reason, people.
Can you imaging 10 people with tablets in a room? The sound of hammers and chisels would be deafening! You couldn't hear anyone speak.
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And, half of them would immediately start checking their email, playing Angry Birds, or generally doing anything but paying attention to the meeting.
I had a manager several years ago who could not be separated from his BlackBerry.
One day, we had a meeting to bring him up to speed on a bunch of things. He had asked for this meeting. In fact, he insisted on it.
The problem was, every thing we told him, would be followed with him looking up from his BB and saying "what? sorry, I missed that." I eventually t
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We all check our emails and do other stuff online anyways. Chances are that at any given time only three people in the room actually care about what is being discussed.
Tablets are overkill (Score:2)
Ah no (Score:5, Interesting)
Stop, just stop,
I do meetings like this ALL DAY LONG. No offense, but there's always someone like you that wants to introduce some new technology that is supposed to make us so much more efficient. Instead we spend half of every meeting trying to get that new tech working.
The best way to lead a meeting that I've used:
A conference room big enough for everyone.
An overhead projector hooked up to a computer.
Remote into your personal workstation from that computer.
Have project goals in whatever tool you use at your company. Personally, I prefer a shared spreadsheet, either Excel or Google docs.
Avoid large project management software packages because they require everyone that needs to see them to have a license. They rarely do.
Log minutes in a text document that can track changes (word or whatever)
If there are people not in the room you can share your desktop with them have have a conference bridge the can call into for audio.
Discourage using whiteboards for the sake of your remote users. Also, you cant save whiteboards. I had ours taken out years ago.
PAINT actually comes in handy if you get fluent in it. I can do some pretty complicated flowcharts using it, very quickly... then later put them into visio so they look nice and are editable. I'm actually vision certified and can use it fluently. But I can do a flowchart in Paint in about 1/10th the time. Box, Line, Circle, Text, done! It doesn't look great, but this is a meeting not an art studio.
Now the person LEADING the meeting is not the person at the keyboard.
"Charlie, bring up the requirements. Thanks..." etc...
The leader, leads the person at the keyboard. The person at the keyboard is only focused on having the correct things up, and logging of whats decided.
When you're all done, you send everything (or a link to everything) out to everyone that was there with a statement like "This is the result of our meeting, please review" etc... so corrections or clarifications can be made. Changes should be "requested" not simply made without talking to anyone.
I know it's clunky, but it works. I've tried damned near everything. We have a lot of managers that like to fall for online marketing so every few months there's a new initiative. I'll keep letting them bring the stuff up and we can keep trying. I imagine one day there will be some new neat way of doing things. But it's not here yet, and tablets are certainly not going to do it.
Re:Ah no (Score:5, Insightful)
"Also, you cant save whiteboards"
Camera.
Everyone has them in their phone now. Take pictures of the whiteboard, and the person assigned to take minutes will redraw the diagrams nicely later.
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Right, if you don't have remote users, then it's less of an issue. But the thing is, I run a lot of meetings where I need to explain some fairly complex technical things to non-tech end users. I need to be quick, agile and able to answer completely random questions I never though of off the cuff without thinking about it too much. I get into a routine and find it hard to switch my methods because my audience has changed. I used to be a big whiteboard guy. People would tease me because they'd enter a room af
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Webcam / screen sharing.
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If you have remote users, get a document camera. Hook the document camera, room computer, laptop VGA connection, etc., into a video switcher. Send the output of the video switcher to a video splitter. Hook the splitter up to your digital projector on one end and a lecture capture system on the other. Then your remote users can see video from whatever device you're currently showing on the projector to the in-person attendees.
For bonus points, hook up a camera in the room and send the camera signal to the le
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fyi etherpad is awesome
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What problem are you trying to solve? (Score:2)
our firm is looking to get away from using paper during our design meetings
Why?
What problem are you trying to solve? Without understanding the problem, nobody can provide pros/cons or cost/benefit of alternatives, much less come up with a solution to...?
Once you actually identify the problem, the solution might become self-evident. But just listing your ideas and seeing if others have implemented things similar to your ideas won't resolve the circumstance.
(Meanwhile, perhaps quit and find a job outside of the design field, a field where identifying and clearly communicating prob
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I came here to basically ask the same question, although without the jab that the quester is bad at his or her job. One gets good at design by attempting more design and learning from one's failures and shortcomings. One does not get good at design by becoming a salesman or saleswoman. That said, in this case, identify that problem you want to solve and communicate it clearly; a design might coalesce from that process even before engaging others.
So, what is the problem you want to solve?
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I'm guessing about 99% of it is
"because green."
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Yar, I don't think it's particularly green. it's just paper. paper is stupid easy to recycle, and most is probably derived from farmed tree pulp these days.
Buuuuuut it's the same reason a person will buy a new hybrid north of $30k to 'save money at the pump' rather than a used economy car. Greenwashing =(
Use paper, CC the NSA later (Score:2)
In health care?? (Score:2)
I would suggest using tech in 2 different groups
1 where it is absolutely needed: As you can see in this video patients that have a combined Coughing Fit and Projectile Vomit episode are spraying material beyond ....
2 Only when you can justify putting said tech in a BURN BAG with the rest of the stuff from case 1
just remember paper can be put in a Burn Bag without having to file an EPA damage report.
If you actually need to use tech then plan on having meetings to
1 agree on a solution
2 actually implement said
Use a document camera (Score:1)
I see a lot of people suggesting that you use a whiteboard and then use a digital camera to take pictures of the whiteboard. That might work as a low-budget solution, but if you have some money to spend and authorization to spend it, just get a document camera. You probably already have a digital projector in your meeting room. With a document camera, you can project anything on the screen. Many document cameras have built-in features for recording images or video, and you can also use it in conjunction wit
We tried and dropped it due to cost (Score:3)
Ask for a tablet, get a tablet (Score:2)
A coworker put "tablet" on the office supplies wish list, hoping to get a tablet of paper on which to take notes at meetings. A Galaxy Note 10 showed up the next week. I guess he was ahead of the curve on this idea.
Top 10 Suggestions Migrating to a Tablet (Score:4, Informative)
1. Create an intranet for collaboration. There are numerous open source projects and proprietary products that can make collaborating between tablets very easy. Some allow easy customization to generation tracking or forms systems to allow you to process and share data instead of using spreadsheet or word processing applications.
2. Make sure you have a nice stylus with palm recognition and pressure sensitivity. Adonit's products for iPad, Samsung or Microsoft's own products are great as well.
3. Use Screenleap to share a desktop with several tablets. It has HTML5 support, is pretty cheap (pay as you go) and very well made API if you want to integrate it with your intranet.
4. Stick to open standards. Use established Internet standards like HTML5, PNG or SIP, and not browser-specific features or plugins, WebM or WebRTC.
5. Do not use a program like Evernote or OneNote, when you can just as easily use iOS or Android's built in handwriting systems to just insert text into documents or web-forms.
6. Buy plenty of power chargers.
7. Invest in wireless access points that allow for two gigabit up-links so you can take full advantage of 802.11ac. Max theoretical speed is around 7 Gbits.
8. Do not buy the cell modem version of a tablet unless you are off-site constantly or have a lot of transmissions when off-site. Otherwise, rely on smartphone data sharing, shared mobile hotspot devices or local wireless.
9. Make sure any design/paint/doodling app you decide to standardize on has versioning built-in so you can easily undo mistakes, because you will be making a lot of mistakes.
10. Recognize that the first six months will most likely be frustrating, but by month five you will be working as fast as paper and after month six you will be saving time.
You are in Healthcare ?! Lord help us !! (Score:2)
You don't mention any problem with paper and yet you wish to spend what will be a considerable sum up front (and in follow-on support) to become 'paperless'.
Is the reflective of your healthcare 'vision'? Is healthcare to you simply the provision of services without regard to effectiveness, efficiency, or cost? Maybe you should get in to fashion design instead?
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OTOH, for about $35 one can get a Chromecast and via their "beta" functionality export the screen of any computer running Chrome. Sure it's laggy and I don't think it does sound, but when someone just wants a powerpoint on the screen with no room full of people waiting, it does the job admirably.
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Uhm People may have been using black boards since 1534, butt he first whiteboards came out in the 1960's and were still not in much use in the early 1990's.