Ask Slashdot: How Do I Engage 5th-8th Graders In Computing? 175
An anonymous reader writes: I volunteer at a inner-city community after school program focused K-8th grade. Right now, due to the volunteer demographic, we spend most of our activity time in arts and crafts and homework. The 5th-8th students are getting restless with those activities. I've been asked to spice it up with some electrical wizardry. What I'd like to do is introduce the students to basic jobs skills through computers. My thoughts are that I could conduct some simple hands-on experiments with circuits, and maybe some bread boards. Ultimately, we're going to take apart a computer and put it back together. How successful this project is will dictate whether or not we will go into programming. However, whatever we do, I want the kids to obtain marketable skills. Anyone know of a curriculum I can follow? What experiences have you had with various educational computing projects?
Simple: (Score:2)
"Look how you can get a spreadsheet to do your boring repetitious homework for you."
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Most of the stuff I "learned" in school were things I have never needed in the real world and the more worthless information you stuff into your head leaves less room for the stuff that is actually important.
Oh, how fun it was to be 16 and totally ignorant.
Re:Simple: (Score:5, Interesting)
A modpack with ComputerCraft [computercraft.info], RedLogic [minecraftforum.net], and possibly a couple of "just for fun" mods like Thermal Expansion [curseforge.com] or RailCraft [curseforge.com] would be a solid starting point...if you want to put together something more complex, contact me on IRC (esper.net, #minechem channel) or via Twitter [twitter.com] and I'd be more than happy to help you out.
Disclosure: I develop the Minechem [github.io] mod, and help maintain a couple of different modpacks.
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Or better yet, use Minecraft to teach them the basics of logic and programming.
Mod parent up - I've used computercraft to teach elementary school kids, and many of them loved it. It is a great way to teach kids how to use Lua, and by the end of the summer they were doing logic statements, bubble sorts, etc.
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By 8th grade only the kids in the advanced classes won't know how to do that...
Marketable? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do the skills have to be marketable? They're middle schoolers, they should be learning the fundamentals or just having fun. Once they're interested in the subject, they can learn how to make money with it later.
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Toddlers must be profitable!
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Your comment is akin to my first impulse so mine is best suited as a reply to yours. Marketable skills are not a simple line item - they are an accumulation of fundamental skills, and experience, both successes and mistakes. Start with the basics, keep it fun and build, build, build.
Re:Marketable? (Score:4, Interesting)
Fun is exactly what it has to be, or at least something that could be perceived as "cool." If it's not, the 5-8th grade group (especially inner city types) will mostly ignore it.
I'd consider focusing on the circuitry you can build in Minecraft. You could easily teach the fundamentals of electronics using its redstone mechanics. It can go from a simple circuit for a light switch to something as complex as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
The way I see it, you gain the following advantages:
- The potential things that can be built aren't limited by your materials budget. Real materials might get you a fancy strobe light, a speaker that beeps, or maybe a radio transmitter that transmits beeps...nothing terribly exciting to that age group. Minecraft can do much more.
- You don't need to worry about buying new materials once a given class uses up a set of them.
- The skills directly translate into real world electronics.
- It's a video game, which usually appeals to younger kids.
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1) ComputerCraft. Programming turtles in Lua and watching them go can be entertaining..
2) Pneumaticraft. Little arial drones (quadcopters) can be programmed using a very simple modular/graphical programming scheme.
More advanced;
3) Steve's Factory. The programming is more logical and less wordy, but the mod has a steeper learing curve.. and is a bit more boring as nothing moves around...
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I think perhaps the first "marketable" skill would be just how to use a computer.
Forget all the programming stuff - that's cool and all, but do these kids know how to use a computer to begin with?
Explain away the magic. Teach them how to use a word processor, spreadsheet and presentation program. Doesn't have to be LibreOffice or Word or whatever - any generic word processor and spreadsheet will do.
The goal is to give them skills useful for life - perhaps they have a report they need to write - show them ho
Re:Marketable? (Score:4, Insightful)
This.
They are so far away from the professional world that anything they learn that is specific to any kind of software or technology will be completely obsolete once they've left school.
They should be doing something fun. The best thing that can be done is to point kids in directions that make them want to do it on their own - self-directed study and show them resources where they can find out how to do things. And let them form groups to create projects and don't limit them to just glowing phosphors on a screen. Lego Mindstorms (and its descendants) comes to mind.
They need to learn that computers are tools for creation and creativity.
Absolutely do /not/ take out all the fun by teaching only fundamentals or just teaching them how to use Word and Excel, aka "marketable skills."
--
BMO
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Why do the skills have to be marketable? They're middle schoolers, they should be learning the fundamentals or just having fun. Once they're interested in the subject, they can learn how to make money with it later.
I quite disagree. The last thing we want them to do is grow up, choose a field where there are hardly any jobs, and then find a lot of interesting fields, like IT jobs, completely closed to them b'cos they chose to major in Advanced Gender studies. Instead, get them interested in computers in this age - chances are they're already hooked to their iPads or iPhones, and then motivate them to learn how to build things on them, gradually drilling in. So that by the time they graduate, they'd pick something l
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I also had the same reaction upon reading it. Why would middle school children need to learn marketable skills?
But I think the keyword here is "inner city". Typical inner city children in US come from economically weaker sections of the society, and they may tend to drop before or during high school. It may be benefit them to have a skill that can earn their bread. If it helps them to earn some part-time income and can keep them in school until graduation, then nothing like it.
To answer OP's question, w
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Indeed. Looking back to when I was that age, what I'd really have loved to learn, was something that was not just theoretical and sedentary, but had an immediate, tangible effect; it could have been anything, like growing things, making things from natural sources or whatever. It could have been flint-knapping and basic survival skills, like how to make fire, how to extract useful fibres and build a shelter or a boat - there is no end to the fun and useful things one could do; or now-a-days it could be guer
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YES. YES, completely with you.
Language and literature are not directly marketable. Highschool-level algebra is not directly marketable. Biology, physics and chemistry are not directly marketable. Same goes for geography, phylosophy, history, and basically every other subject we learnt at high school.
Still, it would be absolutely foolish to get rid of all that.
We don't send kids to school to make them marketable — We send them to get a general culture, to get a baseline of education in all major areas
Vector Sum (Score:2)
So kind of like OP said: Your goal is to make the field marketable to the kid.
That's not what OP said. They want the kids to obtain marketable skills. And "marketable skills" are boring, while learning the fundamentals and instilling a lifelong passion for computing into young children is easier and more effective.
Not really, they're just exciting along different axes. The trick is to find the optimal vector sum between marketable and fun.
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I know what "inner city" means in the U.S. and, I guess, maybe London and Paris, but what does it mean in India?
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I know what "inner city" means in the U.S. and, I guess, maybe London and Paris, but what does it mean in India?
Inner city doesn't actually mean much in India. Unlike US, mass exodus of middle class families to suburbs hasn't happened yet here. It is probably in the process happening though, and the situation might look different in another couple of decades.
Anyway, I am sure OP was talking about US or Canada, who primarily use K-12 terminology.
Depends on the age. (Score:5, Funny)
5th grade : Minecraft
6th grade : Minecraft
7th grade: porn
8th grade: porn
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This age group is going to be deep into concrete thinking. They are going to spend most of their time challenging rules rather than working with them to develop a functional product. They want to see how rules can be broken and if the framework is still functional with broken rules. They are looking f
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No kid of that age ever wants to code tic-tac-toe. No-one even wants to play it, let alone waste hours writing it.
hardware != software (Score:4, Insightful)
Ultimately, we're going to take apart a computer and put it back together. How successful this project is will dictate whether or not we will go into programming.
Taking apart a computer and putting it back together means nothing in relation to programming.
Re: hardware != software (Score:1)
depends how literally he meant it.
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Please spare me from "programmers" who have never seen the inside of a computer chassi!
Marketable Skills (Score:1)
I would suggest you teach them proper grammar, but I read your submission. Instead, I'll suggest that someone else teach them proper grammar.
Check out Touch Control System (TCS) (Score:2)
You could take some Arduino boards and wire up a 3D interface to turn LEDs on or drive motors.
Alpha version available on the website:https://hyperplaneinteractive.com [hyperplane...active.com]
TCS and Arduino: Sensing Voltage tutorial [hyperplane...active.com]
Launching Model Rockets with TCS [hyperplane...active.com]
what size group? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm a band teacher, and I've had experience teaching an electronic music class- not 100% what you're doing, but some principles will apply. If you've got a small group, you'll want each of them to have their own equipment to work with. With a bigger group, you'll probably just have to demonstrate to them.
You'll be shocked at how incapable many of them will be. It will take 5 minutes to get them to all have their breadboard sitting right side up. If you're using a computer program, it'll be ten minutes to get the computers turned on and get the right program open. I'd advise to start with something so easy, you can't even imagine how they could possibly mess it up. After the first project you should have a better idea of what else you might attempt.
Re:what size group? (Score:4, Interesting)
the 8th graders will be stoked if you can teach them how to make Beats. i suggest garageband if you have macs because it's free. if not, try Reaper because it's free to try (paid license required after x days). also you'll want to load a VSTi for samples, and you can get sample content all over the web although it's far more fun to record your own sounds for making rhythms.
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the 8th graders will be stoked if you can teach them how to make Beats. i suggest
.. the SID chip ..
http://youtu.be/UjCochw2P00?t=... [youtu.be]
Re:what size group? (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed. I taught a "this is what programming looks like, this is what these simple loops and logic statements do, this is a large library of functions that let you do relatively complex things very easily", etc. course for a 2 week summer camp last year with kids that were 10-14. Just getting their attention to start takes a few minutes, then showing something, explaining it real quick, then asking for ideas on what else it could do worked, but for every even slightly related question there were 3-4 that had absolutely nothing to do with anything going on at all.
At then end, I did manage to get about half of them actually writing simple PHP to do stuff (they already had a HTML class), the other half ended up playing Tanki Online [tankionline.com].
Visualization (Score:4, Informative)
I've use EJS (Easy Java Simulations) before to make quick visualizations. It's a bit more science/physics based but might be pretty neat. Like showing a rocket go the moon (and physically accurate!) http://fem.um.es/Ejs/ [fem.um.es]
Another tool is vPython. It's nice because it is in python and can be neat - again, I mostly used it for physics stuff, like simulating planetary orbits, but being python, you can show these things in just a handful lines of code. It'd be a great way to crossfunctionally do science and computing. http://vpython.org/ [vpython.org]
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I'd add Scratch to this list (http://scratch.mit.edu/).
I'm not sure if they can all get a working laptop? maybe team up with a local linux group to provide old low cost or refurbished laptops running linux? install scratch (free) challenge them to build something that interests them
The key is capitalizing/capturing their interest. good luck.
Re:Visualization (Score:4, Informative)
There's a book called Python for Kids that I got for my bartender's son. The exercises outlined, like taking a PC apart and putting it together, understanding the parts, what an OS is and what and application is sounds like a good start. Basic web design never hurts. HTML is easy to teach to young people and putting something of their own creation on the web, seems to click with kids. Spending a small amount of time on word processing and Excel isn't bad and for the most part that is what employers mean by basic computer skills. If you can get a hold of a college level "Introduction to PC computing" sort of text book, some good accessible foundation learning can be drawn from that.
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The day I know my bartender well enough to buy gifts for their kids is the day I check into rehab.
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If you can get someone interested in coding and give them some to demonstrate some core concepts that have easy soluti
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You want Bootstrap, which is billed as "algebraic video game programming".
"Unlike Python, Scratch or Javascript, functions and variables behave exactly the same way in Bootstrap that they do in your child's math book."
http://www.bootstrapworld.org/ [bootstrapworld.org]
Workshops: http://www.bootstrapworld.org/ [bootstrapworld.org]
It also provides a good foundation for further CS education: http://www.programbydesign.org... [programbydesign.org]
Job skills??? (Score:2)
why don't you teach them how to do something fun like write a script that will make the computer play a tune of their own composition, or draw a picture.
neither of these are job skills... but it will open their imaginations to the concept of computer programming and representing sounds or geometric co-ordinates in numbers (which is the language of computers).
Advise (Score:4, Insightful)
1.) don't be an asian helicopter mother
- you are not their parents
- best way to engage most children is when they have fun taking things step by step, with fun and encouragement
- some kids want a challenge, those are eager, give them a challenge they can handle, be present, wait for the question, don't explain things they want to tackle themselves
2.)
show them how they can let their computer + learned skills work for them
- understand what they are doing in school (don't introduce partial differential equations to a 5th grader except they ask you to do so)
- explain their current topic on math with the help of excel (no VBA)
-sine, cosine tables, sine charts etc..
3.)
The computer is a tool, make it a place to toy with things
4.)
- don't be ProfX
- use your empathy
- but actually the best choice would be to empower them to tackle their current tasks, a little surplus of knowledge won't hurt
- don't present big problems, demonstrate how you can approach a - school-world-problem by breaking it down,
These are computer/programming skills: to understand a problem, breaking it up into small understandable pieces then describing the whole problem, formulate a solution approach and testing that method.
With the help of a useful tool called computer+software.
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Your post is obsolete by now. (Score:2)
America is swamped already by illegal migrants. Some of them started arriving in the XVII-XVIII century. We failed to protect the borders of our great, glorious nation — And yes, they overthrew us and reducted us. Nowadays, the USA is flooded with all those dirty white do-no-goodies. They walk and drive around what used to be our forests and plains, as if they were the lords of the land. And they now don't want to allow any further migration After teaching us that migration was just a natural phenomen
Scratch (Score:5, Informative)
I run a computer club at our local elementary school. MIT's Scratch has been an amazing resource for teaching the kids to program. It's fun, it's graphical, and it provides a platform for teaching most major CS concepts. We did tear a computer down, but we only spent one meeting on that. I think much more than that is overkill. The kids really enjoy the programming in scratch.
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Science projects (Score:2)
Potatoes that make electricity.. small electric loops.. etc.
http://www.miniscience.com/pro... [miniscience.com]
this is lunacy (Score:2)
because i really want fifth graders to be working for geek squad.
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First, based on the model(s) of computer(s) you're working with, determine if there's an upgrade path, and if that upgrade path is something that whoever provides support will find acceptable. For many models of computers sold to school districts, that means integrated video, f
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Most of the kids experiences will be with tablets or smartphones - forget about upgrades. Newer laptops are the same story. Ram soldered in place, no place to mount a second hdd, and you can't change the video or audio or cpu, so teaching them that will be totally useless except to work on old junk.
However, whatever we do, I want the kids to obtain marketable skills.
Don't be evil.
Do it all (Score:1)
Nine year old programming using Scratch .. (Score:2)
How can I teach my child electronics with an Arduino kit? [quib.ly]
Look at lightup.io (Score:2)
Circuits that stick together with magnets, interesting sensors, Arduino-compatible controller, web-browser-integrated programing environment, sample projects and code sharing.
The hello world starts with blinking the lights on the controller board. Get the bigger kit (the "Tesla", I think).
Outline of some subjects to discuss (Score:1)
How? (Score:2)
Oh, Wait ...
Scratch from MIT, JavaScript, Python, HTML (Score:5, Informative)
Don't worry about job skill, you will bore the crap out of them with that.
Focus on exploration, discovery, and fun.
I'd suggest you look at Scratch from MIT. NoStarch Press has a nice comic book style book on Scratch that worked for my kids.
There are also good resources on JavaScript and Python for kids. Khan Academy has JavaScript tutorial that are pretty good as well.
Physical computing ... (Score:2)
The approach that I used, and it seemed to have worked out, for 6th grade students was to introduce them to physical computing. You need a microcontroller (Arduino, ARM, etc.) and basic sensors and output devices (LED, motor driver, LEGO interface, etc.) and you write very basic code to make things happen in the real world.
I find that this approach is more effective than over-promising and under-delivering (e.g, "you'll soon learn to make great arcade games in this class!") because the gap between writing
Re: Physical computing ... (Score:1)
Mod parent up too. It is written by AC but obviously by a person who know how to teach. I just came here to check for Lego!
It is an awesome product an also an excellent tool to teach cooperation, creativity and creativity.
Re: Physical computing ... LEGO (Score:1)
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Why focus on coding? (Score:2)
I've done this (Score:2)
Taking apart a computer and programming are two orthogonal skills -- someone might be great at one and terrible at the other.
I've successfully used Basic4GL [basic4gl.net] to teach basic programming, graphics, and algebra concepts to underperforming 6th graders. They really loved the exercise of drawing a spaceship first on graph paper and then on the computer using simple graphics commands. Basic4GL is great because it has built in sound, graphics, etc.
I will suggest 3 other things
1) Teach the Processing [processing.org] computer langu
It's a bit like catching a kid smoking (Score:2)
Getting kids into computers can be as simple as locking them in a closet with a box of cigars until they finish it.
Write some solid software tests. Hand them a laptop, compiler, book on programming and a book on test driven development. Don't let the child out until their program passes all tests.
Best to do this with your own child rather than any child you happen to find.
Build, install OS, program (Score:1)
That there is nobody already attached to this (Score:2)
Possible Curriculum (Score:1)
I haven't taken a look at it yet myself (I just found out about it yesterday), but it sounds like it might be exactly what you're looking for.
All our materials are targeted at students in 4th - 8th grades (or between the ages of 9 - 14), and are free and easy to use.
Check out http://code.org/ (Score:2)
khan academy (Score:2)
my 3rd-grader is doing the khan academy CS course. he's learning processing.js, and he loves it.
Ice water robot (Score:2)
I did a lesson to sixth grades as such: (Score:2)
2. I asked them to draw what they thought was inside it.
3. Went over the drawings with the class.
4. Blew some minds after opening it.
5. Discussed the parts and related them to the human body as best I could.
The retention was very high when they understood how the processor was like the brain, the hard drive like long-term memory, ram like short-term. The motherboard was like the circulatory system (blood stream). Video card was like the eyes.
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I like this idea, I may use it next term. There has to be something to do to liven up the "parts of a computer" class.
Robo Rally! (Score:2)
Robo Rally [boardgamegeek.com] would be a great place to start teaching programming basics (i.e. programming steps and timing.)
Earliest computer/electronic experiment that really struck me as a kid (1st or 2nd grade) was 'decoding' circuits with a logic probe: we had rectangles of construction paper, half of which had two rows of hole-punched holes on opposite ends, and we taped tin foil paths between them, including bogus foil under the 'dead' holes. After making a half dozen of these each, we traded and logic probed someone
Obligatory Big Bang reference (Score:1)
I suggest you do not Google "How to get 12 year olds excited."
Subjects are useless (Score:1)
Just don't let them get each other pregnant and you'll be well on your way.
Amusingly, this also got posted today (Score:1)
"Students who gain access to a home computer between the 5th and 8th grades tend to witness a persistent decline in reading and math scores," the economists wrote [urban.org], adding that license to surf the Internet was also linked to lower grades in younger children.
The right tool for the right job? (Score:2)
FBLA - Future Business Leaders of America (Score:1)
When I was in 7th and 8th grade I was involved with the FBLA afterschool program that taught general office computing skills like word processing, elementary database entry, spreadsheets, and networking. I also think we learned about robert's rules of order too! I had a blast and really enjoyed the freetime in the computer lab, granted it was in the mid 90's. I don't even know if FBLA is still around. = (
Coils and Relays (Score:2)
start simple — stroking a nail with a magnet to magnetize it; coiling a wires; then show them a relay.. it works by the principle they themselves have done by coiling wire. then build the four basic logic gates: AND, OR, NAND, NOR.. that will already take a long time. have them write-up the truth tables by toggling switches and getting the results.
then play chess with them — this will better prepare them than anything to thing clearly and logically independent of language semantics which will so
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uhh — to think clearly..
VIdeo Games are Great For Teaching Code (Score:2)
I strongly suggest video games related material, in particular, Unity3D, Unreal 4, or for really simple intros, Scratch. All of these examples can be used to teach programming in a very interesting way that is fun for students and gives immediate feedback and results.
Unreal 4 is pretty amazing because the "blueprint" system is a visual block/node based programming langauge that can function as a complete programming language without much concern for codes/syntax.
Unity is better for direct coding. Boo is t
robots. (Score:1)
programming is a dead end (Score:1)
"whatever we do, I want the kids to obtain marketable skills."
Really? By the time those kids are out of college, programming will be obsolete.
build 3D game with AgentCubes (Score:2)
Lego (Score:1)
Blockly Games (Score:2)
what i use this semester in portland (Score:1)
i use botlogic.us with good results
then move to code for lifes rapid router
all to get to mits scratch
Visualize and relate to their math level (Score:2)
Present the operations visually, and give them a way to visualize what thier code does.
Make all arrays/vectors visible with color coded elements based on value. Let them program and play around.
Make a 20 item slow visual of
bubble sort
insertion sort
selection sort
discuss how a person would do.
Move on to
game of life
grass, bunnies, wolves and moose on an island
10x10 maze creation a
Point them to EEVBlog and 'Talking Electronics'... (Score:1)
EEVBlog:
An off-the-cuff Video Blog about Electronics Engineering, for engineers, hobbyists, enthusiasts, hackers and Makers
https://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog
And the person that inspired the EEVBlog Guy to get into electronics has a _LOT_ of free materials on his site:
'Talking Electronics'
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/te_interactive_index.html
Raspberry Pi (Score:1)
Code a game! (Score:1)
I've done this. (Score:1)
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Ultimately, we're going to take apart a computer and put it back together.
A "computer" today doesn't mean a desktop. Good luck taking an iPad apart and putting it together. Or a smartphone. Or a laptop. In a cost-saving move, ram is now soldered in place. And you can't change the cpu, the video card, the sound card, and eve changing the keyboard is a real b*tch.
Better to spend more time teaching the basics of reading, writing, and math. And get them outside once in a while to play because most of them think "play" means tappin
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a TRS80 or apple ][ emulator would be good for this —something like SDLTRS..
http://sdltrs.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]