Autism: Are Social Skills Groups and Social Communication Therapy Worthwhile? 289
vortex2.71 (802986) writes I imagine that enough of us on Slashdot are on the Autism Spectrum or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers that this might be the right venue for this question. My son is on the spectrum, but is in a mainstream classroom at a private school. We have spent thousands of dollars on a bunch of different social skills groups, speech communication therapy, occupational therapy, and physical therapy. We've found that the specific skills and intuition that the therapists possess is much more important than their credentials and are frequently disappointed by the overwhelming mediocrity of special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists. We are at the point where we wonder if our time is better spent with playdates with peers that are facilitated by us than continuing with the groups. I'm curious if there are adult Slashdoters who are on the spectrum who participated in these therapies as children who can weigh in on this? What was your experience with social skills groups and social communication therapy? Did they help?
Aspergers, LOL (Score:3, Funny)
or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers
Yes, there are plenty of self-diagnosed Aspergers people on Slashdot. Unfortunately for them, the real problem is that they are simply assholes.
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Re: Aspergers, LOL (Score:4, Informative)
For a student with some form of Autism, a either a large school district (that has a sufficient number of Autistic students to have specific programs for Autism) or a specialty school for the condition itself would probably be the best options. But for this, especially the latter, one has to be very careful that the school isn't simply a dumping-ground for difficult conditions where pallative care or babysitting, rather than actual instruction, is the norm.
Re: Aspergers, LOL (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think you were paying attention to what the OP was saying, which is that credentials are not related to performance. Public schools, however, are generally unionized, so that credentials are valued more highly than actual performance. From local reports I have heard relating to students on the autism spectrum, it seems to me that they are either given some dumbed-down busywork, or efforts are made to keep them from disturbing "real students".
For those who know about ASD, however, this is not entirely unexpected. One of the problems is that autism is a *spectrum* of behaviours, meaning that everyone with autism is different. Of a hundred people with the disorder, you will find those with developmental delay as well as mental giants, those with physical handicaps and the physically healthy, some who dislike being touched and others who don't mind, some who speak and some who don't, etc. etc. Lumping them all into a single classroom, or using a single teaching method, is bound to leave many of these kids behind.
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Based on some cases I'm very personally aware of, the Minneapolis and Anoka-Hennepin Public School Systems do a very good job of handling ASD, both mild and not-so-mild. The attitude seemed to be to mainstream them and provide what additional support they needed, and in my observation it worked well.
Re: Aspergers, LOL (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe you need to actually get a clue about what aspergers actually is. It's not being a jerk. It IS specific social and communication difficulties combined with specific unusual behaviours or interests. It does not no longer exist, it just has a different term in the DSM-5 which is actually more broad (due to the inclusion of sensory differences). Aspergers is still used as a descriptive term in north america and a diagnostic classification in countries that use the ICD-10.
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A Masshole's antisocial behavior is triggered by specific conditions—driving, queues, and Yankees fans (to name a few). When not in a Massholic situation, they're generally very kind and courteous individuals.
Definition of Masshole [urbandictionary.com], focusing particularly on the driving aspect.
I'm not autistic (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not autistic or have any syndrome.
I'm just a nerd.
Re:I'm not autistic (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure this is meant to be humorous, but it's a real thing. My son was diagnosed as "being on the spectrum" at the age of 3 (!?) because he was a huge nerd. Let me define that for you: he could read and understand complex technical manuals and apply the concepts, he could do double digit addition and subtraction in his head, he set all our DVRs for his shows, balancing hard disk space... I'm not some crazy parent who sits there trying to drill crap into a 3yo head, it's useless, he just was like that. What he would not do, however, is talk in any "normal" way. He would answer your question with a simple word, but never initiate. He would not talk about things he liked, or stuff he wanted to do, etc. He took toys apart and put them back together, but he didn't really have any fantasy activity with them. All these are warning signs on your yearly checkup list at the pediatrician.
So eventually we were "compelled" to take him to a specialist, and she diagnosed him. We were very reluctant, we knew there wasn't anything wrong with him, but we were getting that "or else we'll call CPS on you" vibe. So they diagnosed him as ASD: PDD-NOS, doctor speak for "fuck if we know". They prescribed a bunch of therapy which we declined, and miracle of miracles, like a light switch was turned on he started talking. And when he started talking, he started talking in long sentences, with big words and complicated ideas. He was "cured" and somehow manages normal life as well as any kid, but he still doesn't behave the same.
Autism has become the dumping grounds for any social behavior that lies outside the first standard deviation of the bell curve. It's especially obnoxious since it's being diagnosed lately with sociology, rather than actual science. No one did a brain scan or anything like that, it was all based on proto-pavlov dog experiments. The downside here is that, having grown up around autistic people, there really is such a thing and those people are not being well served by all this distraction. Money is being misspent on "easy' cases, rather than helping people who are really suffering.
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In "Girl Genius" parlance, he has "the Spark"!
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Re:I'm not autistic (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I'm not autistic (Score:4, Interesting)
I found the book "The Reason I Jump" enlightening to understand what Autism really is. It was written by a 13-year old autistic kid. When you read it, you really understand that Autism itself is not just "being slightly odd", but a whole different, out-of-control experience for that person, which you do not want to live through. Some may be talented in a narrow type of tasks, but that is not the point. So I heartily recommend reading "The Reason I Jump" to get an insiders POV.
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And that sounds like someone deeper in the spectrum, more towards "classic" autism than the modern day grab bag that include aspergers and some other labels at the "shallow" end.
Re:I'm not autistic (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure that if I were a child today I would be diagnosed with all kinds of disorders ADD, ADHD, ASD, OCD, etc... Today kids are diagnosed with those type disorders at the drop of a hat and often times by school teachers and school counselors based on one or two incidents that happen in a.the classroom. I have five sons and every last one of them had a teacher like that. They all grew up to be normal and healthy.
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There were four boys in my youngest sons class in elementary school on some type of ADD or ADHD medication out of about twenty five boys. I only know this because I spoke with their parents and they told me about it I have no idea what the actual percentage for the class was, I probably only ever met ten of them. He also had a couple friends a grade ahead of him that were on ADD medication.
When I was a kid it was almost unheard of for an elementary kid to be medicated like this. Now it's common place and th
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My anecdotal evidence is that the warning signs can indeed show real ASD of various severities, and that proper therapy can be very successful. There was one seriously autistic person that I could have sworn would never graduate high school, but they got him to do the work and he graduated on time.
Re: I'm not autistic (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I'm not autistic (Score:5, Interesting)
I would take this only so far, for the record. If I felt that his behavior was actively causing him unhappiness, harm, or putting him in danger, I would try anything, even things I don't believe in that didn't seem like they would cause greater harm.
However at 3yo, none of that was true. He was happy, we were happy, only very dubious medical diagnostics which evaluate "normalness" suggested otherwise. Those diagnostics were being wielded in such a way that i felt I needed to take action, or else face unspecified legal consequences. I'm not going to debate the latter, but sensible people would try to avoid such situations where possible. Fighting the man isn't the best thing for your child, until it is.
I agree completely that as parents we have to decide if the deviation from normal-ness is a bug or a feature, not based on our own context but based on the child. If he's unhappy, maybe it's worth it. But 4 years later, in my case, my son is pretty happy and confident. The advantage of being in STEM fields is that I meet a large number of very abnormal, very high functioning people every day and don't see a problem with that. I suspect many of them struggle in social situations where their fitness for that group is based strictly on adherence to normative behavior, but I also know that they avoid such situations. This seems like a reasonable trade, we should not all have to enjoy the same things. It is frequently the other people who seem to think something needs fixing.
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I'm fairly confident that I was struggling with most of this stuff when I was a kid, not that anybody really was into diagnosing Asperger's at that age, and I've never bothered to try to get a professional opinion because it really makes no difference at this point.
I think that if it provides additional support/etc getting Asperger's recognized early is helpful. Some kinds of coaching as a kid probably would have helped me to better relate to other kids.
On the other hand, if this just leads to kids getting
Let them play (Score:2)
Kids time is already at such a premium.
Re:Let them play (Score:5, Informative)
As someone who remembers childhood. (And I am not Diagnosed being on the autism spectrum) kids (even little ones) can be very cliquey. If your child has social problems, the other kids may try to push him out of their games, as games in general about playing by social rules of play, kids with autism may not get the differences in the rules that the version the kids play and make it no fun for them. For a child with special needs play time needs to be monitored, otherwise the other kids will just end up doing their thing and he will be playing by himself, with kids around him.
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The outcasts gather together, same as when we were kids.
The kid who is outcast, but thinks he is too good to sit at the weird table is the really isolated one.
Re:Let them play (Score:4, Interesting)
My son is diagnosed on the spectrum (Asperger's). He's 11 (6th grade, middle school). Intellectually, he's probably about 13. Socially/emotionally, though, he's about 6. Without proper supports*, he quickly winds up socially isolating himself with his actions. The ways of making and keeping friends that come naturally to everyone else don't come naturally to him. He *wants* friends, but just doesn't know how to make them. Worse, he will interpret any sign of kindness as friendship and follow this person. This can either annoy the person whom he is now "best friends" with or cause harm to him if the wrong person uses this against him. This goes way beyond "he doesn't belong to the popular kids group and has to sit with the outcasts."
* By the way, "proper supports" also includes educating the other students so they know why my son does what he does. We all think of kids as mean individuals ready to take advantage of anyone they can, but they can also be helpful and supportive. We've had peers of his come up to talk to us when they spotted a problem that my son was having. They were concerned about him and wanted to make sure he was ok.
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The ways of making and keeping friends that come naturally to everyone else don't come naturally to him. He *wants* friends, but just doesn't know how to make them.
They don't come naturally. Those are skills you have to learn. Most end up being naturally taught, but some people miss it.
Without proper supports*, he quickly winds up socially isolating himself with his actions
Which he will always do until you teach him better social skills. Don't look at it as some medical disorder, look at it as a skill gap. I have the same problems and I'm 28. There's no one to help me now and no one ever tried. The older you get with poor social skills the worse it gets. People don't fault kids for social awkwardness, but you're a creepy crazy guy if you're sociall
Not sure if you can get a valid sample here (Score:2)
If as you suggest the quality of therapists is all over the map, getting a "statistically significant representative sample" may require many more data points than you could get by asking /.
Not to mention that people who reply here will be self-selected and unlikely to be "representative" even if you were able to get enough data points.
Unfortunately, there are many things in this world that you have to decide whether to "buy in" to them or not long before you know if it's likely to be "worth the money" or n
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It's not just the quality of the therapists, but in the case of social skills groups, the quality of the group itself.
My son is diagnosed Autistic and we sent him to a social skills group for awhile. At first, it went great. He made some fantastic strides in social skills. Then, the kids in the group changed. Suddenly, we began seeing not-so-nice behaviors coming from him. He was looking at the people in his group and modeling his behaviors on them. Instead of improving, he was backsliding. Same ther
They can be helped (Score:5, Insightful)
They are not robots, they are people capable of learning social skills, just as they can learn math, art, and other human knowledge.
The question is do we know how to teach them?
I don't know a lot, but I am willing to bet that autistic people are as different from each other as they differ from us. The whole thing is a spectrum, what works with one won't necessary work with others.
I think you original idea is correct. No particular accreditation will satisfy you. You need to talk to the specific teacher/aid and hear what they have to say, what they know, and what is their guiding principle. If they impress you go with them. If not, ignore them.
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I agree and disagree; here are my two cents:
Having been self-diagnosed and officially-diagnosed with several "social disorders", I have put considerable time into your question, since it is a reasonable expectation that I may need the answer when the time comes.
The solution for me was boarding school. I was sent to a school, around the age of middle school, which put extra emphasis on social interaction. This pool of ~200 peers addressed the point gurps_npc brings up. S/he is correct; your child is likely v
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Exactly this. The popular quote among parents of kids with autism is "If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism." There can be some commonality between groups (not looking in eyes, flapping arms, etc) but not everyone who is autistic will do all of these things all the time
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There's a saying in Autistic circles -- if you've met one Autistic person, you've met...one Autistic person. :)
And no, we aren't robots. However, while we may be able to learn social skills, they don't get completely ingrained the way they do for neurotypical people. It's always a conscious process for us. That's where the limitation comes in. The conscious processing of social situations is slower and takes more effort/energy than the subconscious processing neurotypicals generally do. Additionally, the
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Never mind that rules seems to subtly shift from place to place and context to context. Most people don't notice because their brains pick up on it and internalize it by instinct.
No (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know why every other special group like gays and transexuals expects society at large to adapt to them, but I have to adapt to society?
Ask Putin (Score:2)
I have met a few gay people who wished I would adapt to them, but I never met one who expected it. I think you need to explain yourself better.
Re:Ask Putin (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sometimes peoples manor and behavior puts them into the 'uncanny valley'.
When that happens you can ether bitch about the valley or help them find an adjustment to their public face. That's equally true if they need to learn to look people in the eye, not to wear a rainbow tutu in public or just to pull up their pants.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
For example I don't have Aspergers but I was very shy as a kid. As a teenaged boy this does not lead to many dates. I used to get upset over the expectation that the boy had to be the one to make the first move. "They can come to me" was my attitude. You can imagine how well that worked.
Eventually rather than lamenting over the way the world operated and that it wasn't fair to people like me, I figured out that with some effort I could learn to be more charming and outgoing, -even with people I didn't know. It's gotten much easier and I'm much more confident, but I'm still envious of the people for whom it seems to be effortless and who apparently thrive on those same social interactions that I find challenging.
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We read what you said just fine. We just concluded that you're wrong.
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Wow, some people would like the same rights as you have, they are not reducing your rights, not forcing you to be nice to anyone, just that they want to be equal. There are morons in the world in all parts of it, if it doesn't affect you and your so precious rights I don't get why you care.
Next you'll be saying that shops shouldn't put ramps in, because fuck anyone who can't walk up 2 steps. It's shameful that you can't see why what you have said has been interpreted how it has.
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I haven't noticed gay and transsexual groups asking society to adapt to them. I have noticed them wanting to be not discriminated against and wanting society in general to stop giving them a hard time.
Toss em in the deep end (Score:5, Insightful)
My parents tried putting me in a learning disability freshmen orientation in college but I went to the normal orientation instead. I've found the best teacher is just time being around people. The more I observe, the more it seems to make sense.
And ultimately I've just come to the realization that we are all weird in our own way, anyone who can't handle that can stick to their own clan.
Re:Toss em in the deep end (Score:5, Informative)
My experience with my moderately Asperger son is a bit different. He can definitely handle the deep end of schoolwork, intellectually. He's a sharp kid.
But there are some areas where treating him like a normal kid would be disastrous. In particular, many kids with Aspeberger Syndrome can become overwhelmed by sensory input and/or frustration. And when they do, they get emotionally "stuck" in a way other kids generally don't. Normal persuasive / coercive methods of dealing with those states are far less ineffective that on other kids, and so using them can be pointlessly cruel.
Long-story short, maybe throw them in the deep end academically, but perhaps not socially.
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You should see what happens in my house when my son (diagnosed with Asperger's) gets stuck on something and I (not diagnosed but almost certainly have Asperger's as well) get stuck on the opposite thing. My wife and neurotypical younger son get caught in the crossfire of two "stuck Aspies." Not fun for anyone involved!
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Exactly this. Before we knew our child had Asperger's, our son's principal at the time insisted he was just being defiant and needed to be punished. So we did this and it backfired big time. His behaviors got worse, not better. Finally, we were so fed up, we paid a doctor to observe him (3 hours in the class without him knowing he was the one being observed and 3 hours by himself) and the doctor said he had Asperger's Syndrome (as well as Anxiety Disorder - threat of punishment would trigger his anxieti
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I've never been able to intuitively understand social interaction.
Well that's easy. Logic, computers, and numbers are always there and never lie to you. If they do it's because you misunderstood. And if they actually did, then that becomes an interesting problem in and of itself.
... ehhh, never mind.
People, on the other hand, people
As a side topic -- I do NOT process visually, like over 60% of the population does. A lot of the time I literally couldn't understand what they were talking about. Vision is to keep from running into walls and furniture, at which I
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ASD people usually don't learn social skills the way most other people do. It typically has to be explicit education. One result is that they tend to be more comfortable around people who follow the rules they're taught, typically other people with ASD or adults.
My son and I (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been diagnosed with borderline Asperberger, i.e., it wasn't specifically tested for, but 70% of other people who scored the way I did on certain tests also were diagnosed with Aspberger. I also have a son who's mildly affected, and is positively diagnosed.
This is a little off-topic relative to your questions, but here are some of the things we've found:
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> A moderate amount of time to himself is fine... it seems to "recharge his batteries" for more social interactions
Isn't that the definition of "introvert"?
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"Asperberger"
Not with that lack of care for proper spelling.
Funny, but what you don't know is that I also have a vicious case of ADD which interferes with my ability to effectively proof-read my own posts.
You insensitive clod.
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There are very few conditions more debilitating than being simultaneously ADD and a perfectionist.
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Second link doesn't work.
A waste of money for most (Score:2)
Get a friend and accept that you're different. There is nothing wrong with being different.
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How does one get a friend? What is friendship and how does one interact with friends? Is anyone who is nice to me a friend? What if my friend says something that I take as mean? Is that person no longer my friend? What can I tell a friend that I can't tell non-friends?
To you, these questions might seem insanely easy. To someone with Autism/Asperger's, they honestly have no clue. While people who are neurotypical seem to just pick up social rules naturally, those on the spectrum can't. It's as if the
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I actually understand all that quite clearly. Taking a class isn't going to help you though. But whatever. If you want to piss your money away on a guru that will take your money then have at it.
Next issue.
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Being different isn't anyone's fault or responsibility.
Am quite different from most people. Trust me, as someone might be disadvantaged at understanding someone else, those other people are equally going to have a hard time understanding that other person.
The difference is that there are more of those other people and they probably have more power, money, and social status. Okay... but then you're just whining about being a minority without the resources of the majority.
Get over yourself. I say this with lo
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And what would I be whining about, retard? I love the stupid insults that don't even give enough information for anyone to actually understand what the halfwit is talking about.
Try again.
Re:A waste of money for most (Score:4, Informative)
That isn't the only reason they do that.There are lots of reasons. People like that often like consistency. It isn't even the practice. They know that sandwich. They know what it tastes like. That isn't just people. That's everything.
If you left someone like that in an abandoned city with shopping malls full of clothing, they'd probably stock up on the same clothing rather then wearing any old random thing. Keep in mind... the city would be abandoned. No one would see them. They wouldn't care.
Anything different can be stressful. Suggesting that autism begins and ends at social interactions is wrong. And beyond that, it is important to keep in mind that autism spectrum is such a broad category that there is really nearly infinite variation within it.
For one thing, neurologically there is no autism brain pattern. To the contrary, people with such disorders have an almost random brain pattern where as people without have a much more consistent and predictable pattern. And that randomness means how things line up and actually work is basically unpredictable. People with autism spectrum have practically random wiring. And sometimes that means good things happen and more often it means either bad things or nothing at all.
My wiring... ME... My wiring is pretty random. I function just fine, thanks. But then maybe I got lucky with having wiring that wasn't terrible. I can tell you that I do have trouble with interactions but personally it is not in the way you think I'd have trouble.
See. I do understand people. I understand because I have studied them. And at will I can pass for normal. No trouble at all. It gets a little tiring if I have to keep it up for hours and hours. But you'd never know. Why is my issue? I don't feel what you feel. I have feelings. They're just not human normal. I don't respond instinctively the way that other people respond. And that means if I want to interact with the monkeys that I have to listen to their hoots and chest thumps to understand what they're trying to say. And then with great skill and practice I return the chest thumps and hoots to the monkeys and all is well.
That is how I am different. Just me. I can't speak for any of my neurological cousins. But that is what it is like to be me. Now would a class that teaches human interaction be helpful for me? Nope. Because the people teaching the class are just going to be another set of fucking monkeys and they don't know how to tell someone how to be a monkey anymore then a fish can tell you how to be a fish. People just are what they are. They don't know why they do what they do are very rarely aware of why they're doing the things they're doing. The thousand unconscious signals they send each other go entirely unnoticed by their conscious minds.
I notice however. I notice and interpret them all in real time and then give the counter signals fluently.
Do you know what it is like? Imagine being stranded on a planet with people that aren't quite human. I don't mean sub human... I just mean a different breed of ape if you will. Different smell... different body language... different sexual habits... Just different. Imagine being a chimpanzee in a world full of baboons. If you've lived with them all your life then you know how they are and what they mean when they do that thing. But you'll never feel the way they do about things. All that excitement about the bright blue asses... you'll never quite get it and more importantly you'll never care.
I don't believe the classes help. I think people with these conditions need to help themselves because they are by definition too different to be fit into some cookie cutter class that just assumes they're all on some sliding linear scale. People on the "spectrum" are not on a spectrum at all. It is only a spectrum from the perspective of normals that evaluate such people from the selfish perspective of how well such people interact with normals. Yes, it helps if you can interact with normal people. But it is vastly more complicated then that... basically infinitely more complicated.
As a carer for the intellectually disabled. (Score:2)
But that doesn't mean they can't lead a healthy, happy life.
Personally, I'd say keep a journal, and note down stuff that you think you're child is having problems with, (speech problems, social interactions, physical problems, etc.) and then discuss it with their therapists. Give them a bit of
your 3 questions: participated/experience/help? (Score:2)
GFCF Diet (Score:2)
Tough to generalize (Score:4, Interesting)
First, I'll say that there's no one solution here. Autism is a tough thing to put into a single box and find a prescribed set of steps for. People with autism are still people, and we're all different in our approaches to the world around us.
That said, I totally get where you're coming from. My daughter is autstic, and we've spent an enormous amount of time and money on various therapies to help her interact more easily with the world around her. Notice that I didn't say, "change her," or, "cure her," or, "make her fit in." She's a wonderful person who just has a really hard time communicating with others and dealing with the sensory load that people live with all the time. I just want to help her develop the ability to compensate for that so she can have the opportunities to interact with others that she deserves.
But as you've found, it doesn't take long before you're a much better SLP, OT, PT, etc. than the people you're paying for that expertise and help. We've gone through countless therapists of various disciplines because while they had the credentials they had absolutely no practical experience or approach to dealing with autstic people. It's incredibly frustrating for me as a parent, and for my daughter, who really needs to build some long-term relationships with people but can't count on ever seeing the same providers because they either suck, are far too heavily booked because they don't suck, or burn out and go find something easier that pays better.
There are still further questions about whether any of the therapies are effective, since we've only got the one kid and there's no control group to measure against. She's smart and makes progress on her own, and we know how to effectively help her develop because we spend so much time with her. But is she getting any value out of a 45-minute OT session with somebody who's used to helping people learn to eat after a car accident? I have no idea.
But the one thing I do believe is important is to provide opportunities for social interaction. My daughter tends to ave more successful interactions with adults because they're patient and polite and understand that they're not dealing with a standard-issue kid. But it really breaks my heart to take her to a playground. She's cute and happy and wants to meet other kids, so she goes up to them and says, "Hi!" Then the other kid says hi. And then it all falls apart. She doesn't know how to get past that, and the other kids figure out that something weird is going on. They might say one or two more things, but then they give up and wander off. It's too big a barrier to overcome in a casual encounter, and they have better things to do.
Opportunities for mediated playdates are probably the best thing, and we're trying to do more of that. But at least for my girl, equipping her with a basic set of social skills to get past the introduction and on to some further interaction is the thing we struggle with most, and the one thing she needs more than anything else right now. Some of that is communication, but most of it is ritual and nonverbal queues. I think it can be taught - scripted at first, then more natural over time - and should be a priority.
In the end, as a parent, I want my daughter to be happy in life. She's destined to be weird/quirky/odd, and I think that's OK. Like many people here, I work in a field that has a large portion of people who fit that description and I appreciate that. If she chooses to be alone, that's one thing. But I'm going to do everything I can to help her get to the point where she can choose how and when to socialize and to find the people who make her happy and comfortable. Like the OP, I'm interested in hearing from those on the spectrum who are now adults, and their path to where they are now. But please remember that not all autistic people have that choice or capability. There's a selection bias that can't be avoided in soliciting that information, so interpret the responses accordingly.
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I am an adult with autism. If you want I can contact you on the email address in the header of your post, and we can mail back and forth.
Since you often have to deal with others (Score:2)
Yes. It is important for this reason.
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Or you could become phenomenally rich and powerfull. And then others would have to deal with you.
Why aren't you doing it yourself? (Score:2)
Don't approach aspergers/autism as negative... (Score:2)
As one of these people, I would have liked to tell my parents to let me do what I wanted to do, and nurture the skills that I had. They fought my aspergers/add/whatever with medications. Horrible years of my life, those...
Are you or his mother musically inclined? Go buy him a 100 dollar guitar. Show him some videos on youtube. Does he like to take things apart? Take him to somewhere that used to
In my experience, no ... (Score:4, Insightful)
I have twins with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (it's hard to narrow it down because it doesn't really fit any of the DSM4 categories.) I've not found that /formal/ social skills work is very helpful. What seems to work better is finding situations where they can have positive social engagement with people who "get it". As you observed, I've found that the particular training is much less relevant than whether the person "gets" people on the spectrum. A lot of people just don't understand how kids on the spectrum think, and they never will.
For us, our church was a great resource for an understanding, friendly group of people who knew us well enough to know that the twins needed special gentleness in social situations. But I don't think that would be true of every church.
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We've had that experience too with our son (diagnosed with Asperger's). Put him with someone who gets his condition and he thrives. Put him with someone who insists that he "be normal all the time" and doesn't get or even want to get Asperger's and he withers. Right now, his school seems to have all the right people in place and it's amazing how much he's thriving - a welcome change from many years of struggling.
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By contrast, I know kids who went through more formal socialization therapy at school, and it worked well.
You are right. (Score:2)
My wife worked with some talented therapists and had no doubts there could be enormously beneficial aspects to working with insightful, skilled professionals.
To expect anything from a special education teacher that would be more than minimal classroom management modifications is probably not realistic in all but the very wealthiest (top 1%) schools, which have multiple secondary educational aids and extremely small class sizes. The special education classrooms in most districts are loaded up with kids with
Autism, Aspergers and ADHD - My Take (Score:2)
I've met people who think I'm sort of crazy. Aspergers and ADHD are mentioned.
Here's my take on it:
I do have concentration problems. I am absolutely positively 100% sure that those are due to bad/suboptimal diet and stress during my time in the womb and during early childhood. There is solid scientific evidence that stress in early childhood influences the brain, the perception and self-esteem/perception. That influences behaviour and social standing. No two ways about it. I consider quite a bit of my fello
I don't get what all the fuss is about. (Score:2)
I once had asparagus.
As A Teacher... (Score:2)
I personally teach kids with autism. I have also been around classrooms with kids in autism. Purposeful, intelligent socialization led by an adult who understands kids with autism will make a big difference to social skills. There are little things like eye contact that make a huge different to their life experiences. I have recommended social groups many times, and the kids have found the experience rewarding. I have also given specific pointers that have made large differences, but the social groups
Immediate feedback (Score:5, Interesting)
Scheduling playdates for your son is a recipe for bitterness and disappointment. Without feedback or direction for what the proper behaviour is, the end result will be ridicule and ostracism. Over and over. And this will continue into his adult life.
Since your son has no "feel" for interaction, the best you can get is an "intellectual appreciation" for correct behaviour. He has to learn the skill that everyone else will pick up naturally.
The first half is to get him to want to learn. You do this by rewards and other incentives, as outlined by any of a number of teaching methods. Sit down with him at regular scheduled intervals, be sure to show appreciation when he does things correctly, and show disappointment when he screws up. When he screws up, do the disappointment thing *quickly* and move on. Promise him a big reward at the end of a semester of these if he does well, and follow up on it (take him to an arcade, get him a specific toy, take him snorkeling in Hanauma bay, whatever.) Little rewards at intervals is good too (take him out for ice cream, his special time with his dad &c).
Make him want to change.
The second half is being able to recognize his behaviour *yourself* and communicate to him instantly. I cannot describe how incredibly difficult this is, you have to be alert for specific patterns and people are just not wired to do this. People go through their daily lives on autopilot, and don't normally evaluate what they're hearing/seeing/doing on a continual basis. It's s a difficult skill that needs to be developed through discovery and practice.
The problem with therapists is that the feedback isn't immediate. The therapist might be able to analyze and correct and connect with your son, but your son will tend to forget outside the session. Like I said, most people are on autopilot and changing the autopilot programming is hard.
When you get the ability to recognize his behaviour, simply say "ding!" when you see it.
It's immediate feedback, and when he hears it he should stop to consider what he's doing and change his behaviour. That's all it takes.
Be very clear that saying "ding!" doesn't mean you're angry with him or that he should stop or that he's being punished. It's simply a signal, and it's not meant to get him to stop, it's meant to get him to *think*. Also be very clear that he can ask you why you said it, and that there's no penalty for doing this.
Start with small, obvious behaviours such as repetitive habits or sentence construction, then slowly work into tactical advice (always look someone in the eye, always ask how they are doing, always remember their name), then into strategic advice ("never lie to a friend", "never tell something told to you in confidence"), then into planning advice (see what other people do and imitate them, dress like them, try to act like them).
Get a copy of "How to Make Friends and Influence People" (Dale Carnegie) and use it as a syllabus for what to teach. Also check out "Influence, the science of persuasion" as a guide for what to watch out for (so that others don't take advantage of him).
Best of luck to you.
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Re: stimming, yeah, I can confirm that anecdotally. I stopped things like rocking back and forth and repeating catchphrases and instead developed a massive anxiety disorder. Let your kid rock back and forth or shake his foot up and down when he's busy with something, it doesn't hurt anyone and really helps him, even if you don't understand why or how.
Consume fiction (Score:5, Interesting)
I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (now high functioning autism) at the age of 19. I went through 2 or 3 years of therapy (though not the therapy you described, mine was just one on one with a therapist), but what helped me the most (in my experience) is that I read an ungodly amount of fiction between then and now (I'm 30 years old now). Books really describe how people think, and I've found that if I interpret what people do based on what authors say people think in books I'm usually not far off. That is, I'm close enough that interpreting people based on what I've read in books is close enough to the truth that it doesn't lead to major social fuck ups. When I was in high-school (ie., before I was diagnosed), teachers would sometimes get mad at me for what I thought then was 'no reason', but I now understand that it was caused by my behavior.
For example, I remember one time when my 9th grade German teacher asked the class about our 8th grade German teacher, and I said that he was a huge asshole. This caused the teacher to flip his shit, but I had no idea why, because he and the 8th grade German teacher were clearly different people, so why would my opinion of the one affect the other? I now understand that my use of language was inappropriate, as well as that they were probably friends, or that it is inappropriate to shit on one teacher in front of another one in a classroom setting.
I'm basing my interpretation of my memory of what happened then on what I've read in the (among others) Harry Potter series. Interactions with teachers and classmates are explained very well there. I may not be able to intuitively feel what is the right way to behave, but because I have a good memory and because I read so much I'm usually able to determine what's going on now. So, in my experience, reading has been more fruitful than therapy.
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They didn't have the diagnoses back when I was young, but I do remember reading all the etiquette books I could get my hands on.
Can I make a respectful suggestion? (Score:2)
I think you should look for literature review papers in a reputable scientific journal (ranks high in impact factor among similar journals in the field, or is something you've heard of like JAMA or The Lancet), written by authors who have published extensively on the subject. Google scholar might be a good place to start (e.g., like this [google.com]).
I'm not saying not to listen to anecdotes and personal experiences, but those things are highly colored by wishful thinking and political animus. You may well find usef
Unconventional, but dramatic improvement. (Score:2)
A behaviour therapist in the area has made simply stated, amazing progress with Austic children using less than conventional methods.
The main technique he used was in-house, all day LSD/Mushroom trips, depending on how trapped in their own mind the child was.
The net result, was during the trip, each child was basically in awe with the surrounding, intently focused outwards on the objects that were once familiar. And generally a ot more calm and quiet during. And as the day wore on, and ended. The child w
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Mushrooms in the last year has actually been shown to normalize the brains internal connections.
Functional MRI scans basically shown that the primary dominant connections were weakened, and many more weak or non-existant neural connections were strengthened. It basically levelled out the inherant biases and neurons we strengthened from our day-to-day existance, and shows what sort of mind-body-thought connection can be done if we were able to focus on being less drawn-to/averse-to various stimuli.
It's a go
Martial Arts (Score:2)
I don't really know what the american way in that again is ... sounds as always: another new industry to exploit wealthy parents.
People lack social skills because they did not learn/pick them up when young (very young), diagnosting that later as 'Asperger' or however you want do call it since that 'name' is 'gone' does not make it an 'illness'.
The best way to teach kids about 'social' behaviour is letting them learn a martial art. (A real one, not some 'fighting system' like Krav Maga etc.)
The reason is: th
Wrong therapists (Score:2)
If you're going to special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists, you're going to the wrong people. Those people may be able to help in a limited role, but a ABA therapists is more what you're looking for to work on all-the-above.
With a son with Aspergers, I would call around to ABA therapy centers and see if they have peer groups. It sounds like that is exactly what you are looking for. When my wife worked at a local center as an office admin, my son with Aspergers went as a "client",
Embrace the difference. (Score:2)
At least you won't have to worry that he spends all his time on Social Networks.
Work in quality assurance, bug searching, piloting or anything that requires a strict adherence to rules, is fantastic for most of them.
There are companies actively searching for such people as employees.
They don't see the 'coolness' in breaking rules.
Contrary to so called 'normal' people, these guys and girls are actually able to follow the rules, all of them, all the time.
They are a plus for every workplace, where the work is
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Quit making excuses for your lack of social skills, and quit expecting the world to adapt to you.
I never asked the world to adapt to me, it can just keep out of my way.
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Re:Autism is a weak excuse for being a piece of sh (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
You're an idiot. No matter what your mother told you Asperger's is not the next step in human evolution. A dash of it is probably useful, but people don't usually have a dash of it, I'm not sure it would even be diagnosable at that stage. I've worked with folks that had this and it's debilitating.
Psycho-social education is probably the only thing that's likely to help. The question though is which program and which professionals. There's an array of possibilities, some might work and some won't. And to an extent it depends upon the individual, this isn't a one-size fits all treatment situation.
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I'm sorry, but YOU are the idiot. Autism is not a disease. The problem is not autism, it's neurotypical people who need to have things their way. Don't be a part of a neurotypical person pointless social rituals and the little asshole will do whatever he can to hurt you. So your solution is to make sure autistic people learn a way which is not and will never be natural for them because YOU can't tolerate someone else not playing your social games? Fuck you. The best thing that could help autistic people is
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Because part of our success in the grand evolution game is that we're intelligent, and can learn from each other. By continuing to do that, you're not "stopping evolution", only reinforcing that we're good at surviving and breeding because we can educate each other.
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Or perhaps one can train their brain to work around a neurological deficit. You understand what your shortcomings are and develop strategies for dealing with them.
To greatly oversimplify the strategy John Nash [wikipedia.org] used to deal with his condition, he continued to hear the voices. He just consciously ignored what they were telling him.
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Sorry, did I read that correctly? Do you think Autism is something you catch, like a flu?
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> I'm guessing that's how most kids on the minor end of the spectrum feel
I'm guessing that's how most kids feel...