Ask Slashdot: Mouse/Pointer For a Person With Poor Motor Control 100
First time accepted submitter wb8wsf writes I recently found that a friend of mine is losing the ability to do fine-grained motor control. This means that writing, and mouse usage is going down hill.
Watching her was hard. I'd like to come up with possible solutions for her, but I'm not sure anything I know of such as a trackball, trackpoint, etc would be of much use. So far I haven't found much wandering the net. Any pointers or ideas would be most welcome.
Watching her was hard. I'd like to come up with possible solutions for her, but I'm not sure anything I know of such as a trackball, trackpoint, etc would be of much use. So far I haven't found much wandering the net. Any pointers or ideas would be most welcome.
replace motor (Score:2)
has he considered upgrading fine-motor to a very-fine-motor?
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If the person is having trouble using a mouse and writing, I seriously doubt they are going to be able to type effectively.
I'd say something like a joystick mouse control with foot pedals would be the solution.
Re: Command (Score:1)
It really depends on the kind of motor problems they have - there are a bunch of different ways hands can screw up. I've got hand tremors, and my friend has mild cerebral palsy, and although we both have fine motor problems, in a way we've got opposite problems.
Personally, I find using a keyboard much easier for most tasks than using a mouse. I learn all the keyboard shortcuts and command line tricks I can, and only use the mouse when absolutely necessary. When I do need to use the mouse, I usually use my l
Re: Command (Score:2)
I've got some trouble as well. Some things that are:
+ getting a keyboard without the numpad allowing mouse and arm more freedom of placement.
+ a split keyboard, I like my gold touch/tech?. Again more freedom and also forces better typing habits which means less small movements.
+ physical therapy
+ Logitech m series mouse. Must be wireless and have the super glidy scroll wheel.
+ a window organizer such KDE or Mac divvy to avoid click and drag of window sizings.
+ the vimium extension to chrome browser. Just pr
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Great and simple tips!
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eyeball tracker? (Score:1)
I've seen blurbs over the years of someone making eyeball-tracking "mice". unfortunately I don't know if anyone actually manufactures them for sale. But you may want to look around for one, as it seems to me that it may help.
dragon (Score:1)
voice recognition software, this is precisely what it is made for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69i80WCErTM
Re: dragon (Score:2, Informative)
Concur. Father died of ALS. He was able to use a computer almost to the end with dragon. At the time it would quadrant the screen, so he could say like 1, then it would quadrant that and so on til it was close enough he could 'click', 'double click', whatever. Then he could dictate to type. It was a little slow going at times, but it got him online to email, or browse the web whatever, even 8 years ago.
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Why use a mouse at all? (Score:5, Informative)
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Voice control (Score:1)
Voice control may be more productive for a given person than movement-oriented solutions
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You can now buy Stephen Hawking parts (Score:5, Interesting)
Not discontinued? (Score:2)
Logitech still lists them and I've found them on many sites.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/... [logitech.com]
I love trackballs and I think they may be the answer, but if he jerks a lot they may not be.
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their marble mouse is still a huge seller, I have several. Will never go back to a wheel mouse.
Try a trackball first (Score:5, Informative)
I've got a friend in his 90's who is gradually losing motor control in his hands. it's a rubbish situation.
Anyway, about 5 years ago, I upgraded him from a standard MS optical mouse to a Logitech Trackman Wheel, which was a great help. Over the last couple of months, his motor control has deteriorated to the ponit where positioning the cursor is still ok. but pressing the right buttons is getting tricksy. So he's just upgraded to an Infogrip BigTrack trackball, where the buttons are out of the way of using the trackball. And it's been a great help. Not perfect, but a massive improvement. Each person's needs are going to be different. I'd suggest borrowing a trackball if you can, else buy one, and if it doesn;t work, ebay it, and try the next thing - the only way to find a solution is to try these things out in real life i think.
I get the impression we're in a nascent market - this stuff will likely become huge in the next 5-10 years, as a big chunk of the early comptuer users start hitting age-related motor loss.
Trackbakk first then look deeper. (Score:3, Informative)
(2) Brush-up on keyboard navigation. Most desktop applications are good in this respect but many web pages are in the stone age.
(3) Tune the driver parameters.
(4) If the user has particular issues (which may not all be motor related) then focus on a 'way to do it'. For example a positive one-click even if the mouse button takes a hammering.
(5) There used to be special drivers but 5 years ago when I looked they seemed to be dying-out.
One of the
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A little more expensive but likely more effective would be remoting a tablet to the larger screen. So everything done on the tablet occurs on the larger screen, a more accessible touch interface. With the likely speed of input the tablet replace the keyboard and you call up a keyboard function on it without disturbing the main screen view, this also provides the audio and visual signalling interface on the tablet.
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Her problem isn't that she's incompetent. Her problem is her hands aren't working properly. Taking a kiddie glove approach to people with disabilities can come across as patronizing and demeaning. Just something to be aware of.
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I have found that reducing the pointer movement speed has been the most helpful. Most mice tend to move farther in relation to the speed the mouse moves. Tremors tend to cause quick furtive movements which cause the pointer to leap across the screen. By lowering the ratio you can inhibit the worst of the effects of poor movement and tremors. It may mean having to lift the mouse and move it back because there is not enough room to move the pointer across the screen, but that is less frustrating than not bein
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I sometimes donate money to Special Effects: .. through Humble Bundle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
And to some extent Able Gamers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
They may have some ideas.
I wonder if it was Valves solution with HTC which was supposed to have one controller per hand with the touchpads + triggers and some buttons or something like that? (Assuming one say can move arms to decide what to do, but someone of course have to code that part too.)
Some suggestions (Score:1)
1. I've been using a Wacom pen many years for RSI, and I find it much better than a mouse. You can set it to either absolute or relative positioning mode, but if your friend can't hold a pen then it's not very helpful.
2. A trackball or a "vertical mouse" (many examples on Amazon) with the Windows mouse sensitivity turned down might help.
3. I have a friend who uses a Contour Roller Mouse, mainly for RSI: http://ergo.contour-design.com/ergonomic-mouse/rollermouse-free2
4. The folks at Able Gamers may be a good
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This. Also, there is software for the Kinect to allow UI control via gestures with the device.
Easy (Score:2, Informative)
I would go too google.com and enter '-slashdot Mouse/Pointer For a Person With Poor Motor Control.'
Try some Assistive Technology (Score:5, Informative)
Fine motor control? So gross is okay, can move arms or legs in a big way, but not fine finger movement? The general term is "Assistive Technology".
Use built-in system adaptations: change mouse sensitivity, keyboard repeat rate, use the numeric keypad to move the mouse. See Control Panel > Ease of Access Center in Windows. "Make the mouse easier to use" and "Make the keyboard easier to use". http://www.microsoft.com/enabl... [microsoft.com]
Tremors? http://www.steadymouse.com/ [steadymouse.com] to dampen mouse movement.
Move the mouse using a trackball, can't click? Dwell clicker. http://sensorysoftware.com/mor... [sensorysoftware.com]
Could move a game controller or joystick, not the mouse? JoyToKey http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/... [oneswitch.org.uk]
Can move head? Cameramouse, http://cameramouse.org/ [cameramouse.org]
Not use a keyboard? Probably up to using an "on-screen keyboard" and "switching". There's an OSK in Windows, 7 and later is OK, before then not so good. Many others, The Grid 2 is probably the best. http://sensorysoftware.com/gri... [sensorysoftware.com]. You'll find at this point that everything is starting to look very "special needs" - the market usually addresses people with cognitive as well as physical problems, and starts to get called "AAC". But the technology is in there. You might also want to check out switching with an iPad/iPhone - recent iOS releases have fantastic switching capacity built in. Proloquo2Go is the most famous iOS app. It's expensive for an app, but it's dirt cheap compared to dedicated hardware solutions (like Stephen Hawking stuff)
Operate one control only? http://www.webbie.org.uk/onesw... [webbie.org.uk]
In the USA? Try finding your state's Assistive Technology Resource Center. In the UK? ACE Centre is good, http://acecentre.org.uk/ [acecentre.org.uk].
Key thing: usually people put off acquiring and learning to use the technology until it is too late, because it's too depressing. The medical channels for getting this stuff are often slow (at least in my country, the UK) so if your friend has a progressive, degenerative disease, you might be best going with something you can get right away and is not too off-putting - if you get an iPad and use that, you can get it right now and it doesn't have as much stigma as an obviously medical device. Many of these conditions have a very limited lifespan, so you need to get something soon if it's going to be useful.
It's also worth noting that switching is really slow and painful for someone who is used to normal usage, and that the role of the main carer/partner is essential in successful adoption of this kind of technology.
(Quick whirlwind notes from a technical rather than medical guy, excuse any slightly-off nomenclature. And your friend might just need to adjust her Windows settings, and I've leapt to much more "advanced" systems than she needs - but you don't think a trackball will cut it, and she's clearly been normal up to now, so I'm thinking the worst...)
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^^^ mod this up. Good summary.
I've worked extensively with Camera Mouse (http://www.cameramouse.org/) and a few other technologies.
- Voice recognition such as Dragon works very well and can be used to to do some mouse pointing and other interaction tasks in addition to regular dictation.
- In addition to trackballs they make accessible joysticks that have large "kush" balls on the top that let you use more gross motor functions.
- All sorts of accessible keyboards or button pads can be used with a variety of
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Fantastic compilation of software suggestions. I hope this comment becomes a sticky on some related website or forum for such problems. Bravo!
different mouse driver software (Score:1)
Normal mouse drivers have some degree of automatic sensitivity adjustment as the pointer speed changes. If the options to change that sensitivity are not enough, there should be 3rd party software out there that would help. There are numerous sites, dealing with various handicaps, that have lots of links to software or devices that can ease the difficulty. For instance a Parkinson's site: http://www.waparkinsons.org/resources/assistive-technology
If you have been to all those kind of sites and have not fo
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voice is most definitely not the best its obtrusive and very buggy
So what? We have these amazing things called "doors."
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And i suppose if you only ever use a computer in private that's a great solution
"Click on Quote Parent Button" Type "It's better any anything YOU suggested". "Click Preview Button." "Click Submit."
Kensington Expert Mouse Pro (Score:2)
Eye Tracking Mouse Software (Score:2)
Software that averages movements? (Score:2)
I don't know if such a thing exists, but my first thought is a software solution that averages the cursor position over a short time.
Nintendo Wiis, for example, do it on some games, but not all, to take the shake out of your Wiimote hand. It means a little extra lag, but the cursor moves more smoothly.
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Think you could just turn down the sensitivity of the mouse to test things....
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You could, but then the deliberate movements have to be that much bigger.
speech recognition (Score:2)
is hte first and most ovbious answer that springs to mind. Not to plug or anything, but Nuance leads the pack with Dragon Naturally Speaking. Version 10 is the best so far (yep, even better than v13), it has a very easy interface and it learns rapidly. http://www.nuance.com/dragon/i... [nuance.com]
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try as I might, I can't browse using just voice commands on a vanilla W7 Home install.
Any tips?
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Nuance leads the pack, becuase their business model is to buy out the competition, or eliminate them through excessively high royalites for the non-patents that the USPTo grants to organizations that engage in ongoing racketering and extortion.
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...said by someone who has clearly never used a Nuance product.
(dictated using DNS 10)
Similar problem here (Score:2)
Accessibility for Apple and Microsoft products (Score:2, Informative)
You didn't say what platform, but this has been an on-going emphasis for both Apple and Microsoft for a long time.
For OS X and iOS, see
http://www.apple.com/accessibi... [apple.com]
http://www.apple.com/accessibi... [apple.com]
For Windows, see
http://www.microsoft.com/enabl... [microsoft.com]
Hope this helps.
--Paul
Ask others with the same condition (Score:2)
It is likely that your friend is not alone with her condition. Try to discuss it with others who are affected, and who have already been through the stages that lay ahead of her. People with motor control issues successfully use vertical mice, touch screens, keys for navigation, gaze trackers, voice recognition, non-standard input methods such as the Dasher accessibility tool, or tailored input methods.
Why reinvent the wheel? (Score:2)
Kludging a system together yourself makes about as much sense as rolling your own ssl library. There are people who solve this sort of problem for a living - Occupational Therapists. They're almost certainly going to come up with a much better solution than you will.
Foot pedal (Score:2)
Have you tried foot pedal mice? They don't generally require as fine of control as a regular mouse and they feel very natural to use.
Pretorian Technologies - Joystick, Trackball (Score:3)
Pretorian Technologies of Lincolnshire, UK http://www.pretorianuk.com/ [pretorianuk.com] specializes in computer devices for disabled, and semi-disabled users. They make a wide variety of trackballs, joysticks, mouse alternatives, big switches that can be activated by your elbow or knee, iPad switches, bluetooth linked switches etc.
Their devices are aimed at those with "limited hand control, fine and gross motor skill difficulties, poor hand-eye coordination, limited manual dexterity, repetitive strain injury, involuntary muscle spasms, spastic and flaccid paralysis, cerebral movement disorder or central neuromuscular disability and inflammatory or degenerative change"
From their website, http://www.pretorianuk.com/n-a... [pretorianuk.com]
The n-ABLER Trackball is the most adaptable Mouse Alternative on the market specifically designed to address the needs of computer users with limited hand control, motor skill difficulties, poor hand-eye co-ordination, lack of manual dexterity and involuntary muscle spasms.
In the USA, their products are available through InclusiveTLC.com .... not cheap (the anti-tremor joystick costs $440) but they look excellent for the application. a giant 3 inch diameter bright red switch that talks bluetooth (for the iPad, I think) runs about $150. see http://www.inclusivetlc.com/is... [inclusivetlc.com]
Neural? (Score:1)
How about something like the NIA?
http://www.amazon.com/OCZ-OCZM... [amazon.com]
Keywords: Assistive Technology (AT) (Score:2)
There are many vendors who sell these devices, such as here: http://enablingdevices.com/cat... [enablingdevices.com]
For the specific need you mention, here's a start:
http://www.traxsys.com/Assisti... [traxsys.com]
My wife has Cerebral Palsy, with very poor fine motor control of her hands. She has two of these joysticks, both paid for with grants found for her from our local United Cerebral Palsy center (http://www.ucpsdtechcenter.org/).
It is an analog joystick - the same type used on power wheelchairs: the further you push the stick, the faste
Which problem? (Score:1)
It would help to know the nature of the problem. As some of us are not physicians, you'd have to explain the symptoms -- not name the disease -- though e.g. Parkinson is quite well-known.
A mouse works in two (*) linear fashions. Low speed up to a distance and after a threshold it goes with greater speed. In Linux (that's what I know), one can make it work according to a power function which is much easier to control, as many Quake victims of yours truly could attest. :-)
Please have a look at this:
http://i.i
Head Tracking (Score:2)
Head tracking may work well, depending on ability to control head/neck. There are several methods (mostly originating in the flight sim community).
1. Face tracking (very easy to try, FaceTrackNoIR [sourceforge.net] or Opentrack [github.com])
2. Head tracking with IR clip [free-track.net] (bit more reliable than face, many DIY guides out there)
3. Head tracking with Aruco marker (available in Opentrack)
trackball for my brother (Score:2)
There are several, but I prefer the ITAC Evolution.
http://www.itacsystems.com/evolution-mouse-trak.html [itacsystems.com]
experiment with an arduino (or other suitable) (Score:2)
right. let's assume that you need to actually do some programming, here. first thing: get hold of an arduino, or something with an STM32F (waveshare have something). one of the examples in the source code for the waveshare STM32F102 board that i bought is: guess what: a mouse HID emulator.
basically what it does is program the USB port to (a) be a client (b) pretend that it's a mouse HID device. then, it just runs through a sequence creating "mouse move left" events 100 times followed by "mouse move righ
Joystick Mouse (Score:2)
so I promptly googled this into existance:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Ergon... [amazon.com]
That, coupled with using a slower mouse tracking speed, should allow the user to use larger gross movements to nudge the mouse to where it needs to be, and click. Its the first route I would go anyways, instead of multi-hundred dollar eye tracking or voice control software.
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http://www.ablenetinc.com/Assi... [ablenetinc.com]
Not impossible labs (Score:3)
Check out the eyewriter: http://www.notimpossiblelabs.c... [notimpossiblelabs.com]
and the brainwriter: http://www.notimpossiblenow.co... [notimpossiblenow.com]
I have a friend with a similar problem (Score:2)
In her case I introduced her to Lynx (tab key navigation) and elinks for browsing, hotkeys (Home, Ctrl+Home, End, Ctrl+End) for editing and reading, and a large "scrollball" for mouse control. As her condition deteriorated her son built her a custom keyboard - a modified keyboard for the vision impaired (large buttons) with the number pad removed and a large, custom, hotkey pad in it's place.
At some point we plan to change to screen reading and speech recognition as she has issues seeing when she can't con
Move Mouse Using Head Movement (Score:1)
http://cameramouse.org/ [cameramouse.org]
From the website:
"Camera Mouse was invented at Boston College to help people with disabilities use the computer. We make it available for free download, with no gimmicks or advertisements or registration, because we want to help as many people as possible."
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On second thought.... maybe this wouldn't suit your case very well.
Incremental movement (Score:2)
With that in mind, a trackpad wouldn't be a bad choice
Trackball for the foot (Score:2)
As others have said, every person is different in their abilities and limits. And I know nothing about your friend's situation, so I can only tell you about the situation I've worked with.
My aunt was born with cerebral palsy, and she has always had much better control over her feet than her hands. Her solution was to place an ordinary trackball under her desk, (the large kind, not the marble sized one) and she uses her bare foot to control it.
Because it's foot operated and she can't really clean it effect
Paralyzed solutions (Score:2)
At least now we know... (Score:2)
Mouse Snap To (Score:2)
Have you tried the Snap To option on Win7 mouse settings?
This makes the mouse jump to the default button on dialog boxes. It takes some getting used to and probably needs good eye tracking but it can reduce required mouse movement a bit.
Smoothmouse (proof of concept) (Score:2)
I have no real idea if this is any use to you, or anybody else, but as a proof of concept, this Windows executable will smooth out mouse movements over time, a bit like a Nintendo Wii does to take the shake out of your Wiimote-holding hand:
http://horman.net/smoothmouse.... [horman.net]
This is very much proof-of-concept only - all parameters are fixed, smoothness is set very high, and if you want to close it you'll have to use Task Manager to kill smoothmouse.exe.
Dance mat (Score:2)