Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Service Providers When You're an IT Pro? 479
New submitter username440 writes: So, a lot of us will have been here: You have a problem with your ISP, cable TV, cellphone whatever technology and you need to call the provider. Ugh. Foreign call centers, inane fault-finding flowcharts (yes, I have turned it off and on again) and all the other cruft that you have to wade through to get to someone with the knowledge to determine that YOU in fact also have a degree of knowledge and have a real problem.
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
Codeword (Score:5, Informative)
Shibboleet
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Funny)
Shibboleet
https://xkcd.com/806/ [xkcd.com]
Of course in the REAL WORLD you have to put up with the crap along with all the others :(
Re: (Score:2)
Wait... it really was a dream?
DAMMIT!!
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Informative)
Shibboleet
https://xkcd.com/806/ [xkcd.com]
Of course in the REAL WORLD you have to put up with the crap along with all the others :(
At least one ISP is explicitly XKCD/806-compliant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
http://aa.net.uk/broadband-why... [aa.net.uk]
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course in the REAL WORLD you have to put up with the crap along with all the others :(
No. The real code word is a phrase:
"Give me second level support."
Usually it goes something like this:
Support: "Hello, this is Ranjit/Deepak/Rakesh/George Washington at tech support. Can I get your name/account number please."
Me: "Yes, my account is 12345. Can I get second level support, please?"
Support: "Do you have a ticket or reference number?"
Me: "No, but I'm a network engineer/software developer/I.T. professional, and I know everything you're going to ask me to try, I've already done. So, rather than waste both your time and mine, it'll be a lot easier if you just put me through to second level."
Support: "Ok, I can do that. Hold please."
Of course, be polite, and don't have a tone of voice that states you think the person you're talking to is an idiot. Smile while you talk. It really does affect how you come across, even over the phone.
Only once, in however many dozen/hundreds of calls I've made to tech support, have I ever had this not work. The time it didn't, we went through the script, and at the end, this happened:
Support: "I'll transfer you to second level support."
Me: "So, if you'd just done as I asked in the first place, we both could have saved a bunch of time here, couldn't we?"
Support: "Yes, I guess we could. Next time I'll do that."
So, even the one time it didn't work, the first level support guy was educated that when somebody knows enough to ask for second level, they probably know enough to have done what the first level script says, too.
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Insightful)
Support: "Hello, this is Ranjit/Deepak/Rakesh/George Washington at tech support. Can I get your name/account number please." Me: "Yes, my account is 12345. Can I get second level support, please?" Support: "Do you have a ticket or reference number?" Me: "No, but I'm a network engineer/software developer/I.T. professional, and I know everything you're going to ask me to try, I've already done. So, rather than waste both your time and mine, it'll be a lot easier if you just put me through to second level." Support: "Ok, I can do that. Hold please."
No audible clicking, then
Support: "Hello, this is Ranjit/Deepak/Rakesh/George Washington at second level tech support. Can I get your name/account number please."
Choice between overseas and US folks? (Score:4, Informative)
I can tell you if you have CenturyLink and you get "call-a-me-Bob" when you call up, ask them to transfer you to the US staff. they do so, and you talk to nice folks in Boise who can shift off the script once they know you have done all the tier-zero stuff already.
Re: (Score:3)
Certainly funny. However, I can say I've never had it happen to me. Of course, I'm not in the US, so I don't have to deal with the right wing extremes that even the left wing of your society subscribes to.
Usually I wait a couple of minutes on hold, then get somebody on a much clearer line, with a completely different voice and accent, who actually knows what they're talking about, so I know it's a different person.
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Insightful)
Me: "So, if you'd just done as I asked in the first place, we both could have saved a bunch of time here, couldn't we?" Support: "Yes, I guess we could. Next time I'll do that."
So, even the one time it didn't work, the first level support guy was educated that when somebody knows enough to ask for second level, they probably know enough to have done what the first level script says, too.
The problem is that every second caller says the exact same thing, but not all of them actually do know what they are doing. You might be smart, and know the exact problem, but your line of reasoning doesn't account for the other 90% of people who think they're smart, but aren't.
When I worked a service provider helpdesk years ago, this was the number 1 main cause of frustration. People who thought they knew it all but didn't. So you spend much longer on a call because the know-it all wants to skip the basics, even though they usually help isloate the fault.
This is why the 1st level have a script, because there is simply no other reliable way of determining the quality of information from the other end of the phone at this price point.
Re: (Score:3)
You're an asshole. Now, could I have a discussion with someone more intelligent?
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Insightful)
As funny and nice as this would be, the inevitable leak is precisely why no such thing exists.
If the author is really in tech, they should know why trees exist and it's to keep Tier 1 questions from reaching Tier 2+ support. Programmers shouldn't be doing password resets. DBAs shouldn't be copy/pasting FAQs to users. Engineers shouldn't be telling people to "Turn it off/on" again, and so on. (Of course, if it's a small enough org there may be some "all hands on deck" events which occur that require everyone to field all questions).
The problem with having an auto-escalation path is that it allows problems that never should have escalated to get escalated. Yes, you may have a fairly specific problem that requires a T3 tech, but the T1 doesn't know that, and the majority of [Company]'s customers don't know that either, but every single other customer think's their issue requires a T3 tech. The scripts and the tree exist to keep some order and structure going. Think about it this way - suppose you were a business customer who had a T3 question - do you really want your call being queued up behind someone who insists that Internet Explorer is the only way to get to their email? When I managed a first response desk, we had people calling in for the Sysadmin, Enterprise Manager, DBAs, Senior Devs, pretty much every upper-level employee, insisting that "Only they can solve this". Most of the time it turned out to be basic desktop troubleshooting or password resets or just basic "how to" questions.
This is why a lot of the big businesses have empowered their T1 to basically send replacements without oversight. When I had Comcast briefly last year, I had a modem that seemed to be capping speeds. I waited out the script, and at the end of 20 minutes, there was a new modem sent to me via Next Day.
The problem in the question does not require escalation; It doesn't need a tech higher than T1, and it's not a matter of the T1's not understanding. To me it seems like the author is just impatient; if I were to expand on that, I'd also suggest they think they're better than the T1 and as such deserve better treatment.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Codeword (Score:5, Insightful)
I am an IT professional, and even I make simple mistakes sometimes. There is a reason rubber-duck debugging is a thing. Tier 1 is a rubber duck. Deal with it, you self-important asshole.
Most people younger than me know exactly shit about how their black monoliths (with brightly colored protective cases) actually work.
Re: (Score:3)
> As an example, we recently had a password issue
> where users were required to change passwords
> every 90 days. It was a dumb idea, and I'm not
> entirely sure why I agreed to it in the first place,
In some cases, you don't have a choice. Work somewhere that takes credit card payments? Section 8.5.9 mandates that all users must be made to change their passwords every 90 days. And I'm pretty sure that HIPAA and the rest of the big standards have similar requirements. Yeah, it's a dumb policy t
Re:Codeword (Score:4, Informative)
The word you keep using ought to be "losing," and you ought to also forget this "loosing [urbandictionary.com]" concept. Immediately.
*lart*
Re:Codeword (Score:5, Funny)
You are right, codewords wouldn't work, but how about a skill testing multiple-choice question(s). If you get enough right, you can get escalated
So, some questions like...
"Is it plugged in?"
"Did you try rebooting your computer?"
"Have you tried unplugging the route, waiting 5 seconds and then plugging it back in?"
What do non-IT people do? (Score:2)
Just stay on the phone and complain until the problem is solved to your satisfaction, no matter how long it takes.
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't work and it wastes a lot of your time.
I once had Verizon DSL and the copper plant it relied upon was of the poorest quality. Best case scenario I could get 56k out of it. After fighting with them over it, the final straw was dealing with their outsourced tech support.
After going through the usual " Have you rebooted the computer ? ", " Have you unplugged, plugged in the router ? " bullsh*t, I was told I needed to make sure my recycle bin was empty because that could cause a slow connection :|
Re: (Score:3)
So your point is that some problems can't be solved. Indeed.
Re: (Score:2)
technical solution (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a technical solution
I have Verizon FiOS. They require their router for video on demand, program guide, etc. My solution -
1. Force release DHCP on their router.
2. Clone MAC on my pfsense box.
3. Reacquire DHCP via pfsense
4. Create a DMZ with a separate interface that hosts their router (without any connection to my internal network, but open access to the internet).
5. Connect the DVR box to their router
Everything works. Everyone is happy. Their router thinks it's doing the routing. The DVR box thinks their router is its bridge to the WAN and lets me use VoD.
Took me a few days to figure it out
Faulty router? (Score:5, Insightful)
When they complain about not being able to connect to their managed router suggest that it might be because it is faulty and perhaps they should try sending a replacement device. ðY
You'll get ignored. (Score:3, Informative)
With those jobs, most of our callers have no clue what their talking about - so we won't believe you anyway.. Or the one the killed me was "My son/brother/neighbor's kid is in IT and he says ..." Even if that person really knows what they're doing, by the time it gets to your ears it's usually wrong.
It's very rare to get a caller who knows what they're talking about - so rare, that it's much more time efficient to ignore every caller's suggestions. Sorry, for the insult. Newbie techs who listen to their ca
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Manners please. (Score:2)
Having been on the other end of that phone at varying times in my life (ranging from consumer tech support, to enterprise support) i try to be as patient and compliant as possible -- though if they are leading me on a goose chase I'll try to be subtle and point them in the proper direction.
Because face it, most people are assholes; especially when something they are paying for, isn't working.
They have to deal with assholes 8+ hours a day, every day, for a really shit wage. I can play nice for an hour or so
Re: (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of doing their job.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of doing their job.
That gives you something in common with them...
Re: (Score:3)
I noticed there is a bit more perceived hostility when dealing with "text chat" support than over the phone.
Depends on if it is a real person. I've tried to use chat support on several occasions with different companies, and each time I've started out writing four or five sentences that outline my problem, what I've done to resolve it, what happened. I've *been* T3 support, after all. Every single time, the descendant of Eliza chatting with me started out asking me to confirm the nature of my problem, and continued asking me one by one the exact questions which I'd already addressed the very first time I hit Send
How to cut through the frontline bs (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hi, I'd like to terminate my service."
Re: (Score:2)
Generally they will have someone t
Re: (Score:3)
This works for me. In general you work with the front line and they'll work with you. Sometimes you've got to be a little extra patient and sometimes you get lucky with someone who knows their stuff. When you tell them what you tried they just have to know enough to put you to the next level. Sometimes you say thank you and then call back hoping to get someone else. It's the same when dealing w/any large organization
It takes four magic words in the first sentence (Score:3)
Hi, I'm an enraged customer, I'd like to speak to your escalations manager.
It helps to say that in the kindest possible tone, too.
"Escalation manager" is the normal term for someone who talks to "enraged customers". It may or may not be what your ISP uses, but the two phrases in the same sentence tend to get you to the right manager.
--dave
Did escalations for a while at Sun, some of the problems were real fun. Others weren't.
Ask for tier 2 support (Score:3)
Get a business grade connection. (Score:5, Interesting)
It costs more, but as an IT pro, I consider it a fact of life.
Currently I have a business level account account that I write off 100%. This is the middle tier that runs around 90 a month for 25 down and 5 up. I then have a second consumer grade line @ 120 down and 10 up ( with restricted ports) @ 75 a month. The access point and family crap is connected to that. I then have the consumer connection set up as a second wan on my pfsense firewall.
Expensive, sure until I deduct the business connection as a business expense. This setup also allows me to test things like vpns,etc. This also means that I can experiment with stuff and do not hear the family complain because Netflix is not working.
Re: (Score:2)
Is that a synonym for costs nothing? Sign me up.
Re: (Score:3)
I think the threshold for unreimbursed business expenses is still 2% (don't remember if it's AGI or taxable, whatever). Let's use an easy, $100,000 per year income. The first $2000 of unreimbursed expenses aren't deductible. So, say, business class internet is $2000 per year, that's only the starting point for deductibility. I'm not sure of his situation, but reputable companies pay GSA/IRS rates for car use ("reimbursed"), and not sure what other business expenses an IT pro might have; let's imagine it's a
Re: (Score:3)
Or, think up a technical solution.
So, the problem is that the ISP provided router does not work properly. Also, if you replace it with a proper router, the ISP does not like it.
So (I'm assuming here that the uplink is Ethernet):
1.Figure out how the ISP accesses your router (packet sniffer with a managed switch or a hub),
2.Configure a Linux router to pass management packets to the ISP router, but otherwise act like a router for your network. This way, the ISP can still access their router, but you do not hav
Re: Get a business grade connection. (Score:2)
A easy solution is to clone the mac address but if they are collecting snmp or doing any kind of management they will discover that you are running unauthorized equipment.
I decided a long time ago that my time is much more valuable than money. So I formed a small LLC, keep enough side business to keep the IRS from claming that it is a hobby, and am able to write off al
Re: (Score:2)
A easy solution is to clone the mac address but if they are collecting snmp or doing any kind of management they will discover that you are running unauthorized equipment.
There are ways of making the Linux router invisible to the ISP, unless they really try to detect the unauthorized equipment (but that would take time and the ISP probably does not care THAT much). It depends on what is actually done with the management. Stick a Raspberry Pi on the other side of the ISP router to simulate usage. The result should not stand out in the graphs etc, so the ISP will not be looking at that particular router for problems.
Also, if the ISP still manages to detect it, just play dumb a
Re: (Score:2)
I had a friend come up and visit me. We were stumbling around the property and rather drunk. We discovered a couple of trees that needed to be trimmed and I really did not want to work around power lines. So I called the power company and told them about the trees. (We have heavy snow and ice storms.)
They did not show up.
My friend returns about a year later and we were talking about the trees - and also drunk again. So we shambled down and took a look at the trees. This was not effective. My buddy, bless hi
Re: (Score:2)
Not much of an option for those who can't write off the costs of business and multiple lines. It's great that you can I guess, but just sayin . . . . .
My lowly consumer grade connection runs ~$70 / month for 50/5 speeds. It jumps considerably if I want to take it to the next tier of 105/10 ( ~$110 / month ). *Which is really pointless since they will throttle the connection if you max out your throughput trying to download a large file.*
So pricing varies quite a bit depending on your ISP and region. W
Re: (Score:2)
Sadly, in a lot of places, you CAN'T get a 'business' connection. Small towns especially. If you really are a business, tough luck, you're in the same bucket as the rest of us plebes.
Re: (Score:3)
AND, they won't even rent you a fixed IP without one.
Obligatory xkcd (Score:2, Redundant)
https://xkcd.com/806/ [xkcd.com]
They have a script, let them follow it (Score:5, Insightful)
Pick a better ISP, if you can (Score:3)
You have a serious problem, because you are trying to buck the system. The best solution is to pick an ISP that will listen to you and treat you with respect and intelligence. For most customers, who know very little about networking, that may mean the standard frontline support. But a good ISP will listen, recognize that you know what you are talking about, and talk to you at your level. After all, it's in their interest as well as yours.
Where are you located? I'm in England, and for some years I have used an ISP called fast.co.uk (Dark Group). Things very rarely go wrong - and when they do, it's usually the fault of BT, the wholesale provider. But when the problem lies in my setup or theirs, the tech support people are outstandingly helpful.
Re: (Score:2)
For most people in the US, there is no such thing.
Re: (Score:2)
For most people in the US, there is no such thing.
They will generally listen and have greater understanding if escalation to technical staff is needed to resolve the issue, but there is a process for supporting certain issues that are caused by common user errors AND you still have to go to through the process, to be satisfied you don't just have a case of user error, before spending $$$.
Just because you're this big and mighty IT smart guy doesn't mean you get to skip the processes they have in place
Re: (Score:2)
Based on the behavior of the average ISP, all of the arrogance and and disrespect that those of us can muster here is WELL JUSTIFIED.
Play along, then bullshit them if that fails (Score:3)
First, play along. Let the rep run down his flowchart sheet. If that fails, disconnect the device, call them and complain that your device can't connect and seems to be broken.
Get to Tier 2 or equivalent (Score:2)
In my (limited) experience, when I've had a significant tech problem, my goal is to work with the Tier 1 guy to run quickly through his/her troubleshooting script and to get a hand-off to Tier 2, more expert support. Sometimes that's the level that can authorize on-site repairs, changes to routing tables on their end, etc. The other option, particularly if this isn't a residential/consumer account, is to talk to the sales rep. A good sales rep (not always an oxymoron!) can sometimes open doors for you fro
We could tell you... (Score:3)
but clearly you are not a member of the Freetechnicians, a fraternal organization that traces its origins to secret academic groups in the early days of computer science. Only when you acquire the rank of Master Tech can you receive the mystical codeword that reveals your inner self and acquire the truth you seek. If you wish to become a member you must be invited by the Grand Poobah and acquire the necessary degrees to ascend to Master Tech.
May the Random Number Generator Smile Upon You!
Comcast Solution (Score:2)
For years I have been dealing with a certain cable provider for internet. I found that ask to have your service disconnected they will transfer you to a 'real' customer service rep.
Re: (Score:2)
Basically this.
Threaten to leave (and follow through if you must) if they don't connect you promptly with competent support personnel who won't try to sell you an "upgrade".
Buy your own modem (Score:2)
You mentioned that you have to have their managed modem. Time Warner has a similar requirement to have a modem that they support. In my case, I was able to buy a basic Motorola DOCCIS 3.0 modem at Target that was on Time Warner's compatibility list. It was less than $100.
Not only does the modem work better, I no longer pay the monthly rental fee.
Why are you leasing equipment from Comcast? (Score:2)
I despise Comcast for many reasons but in my experience (managing 30 locations on Comcast) they will replace equipment when asked to.
Revealing your knowledge will only hurt you (Score:2)
Keep in mind that the customer service person you get when you first call your cable company knows less than nothing. The have a script and some stock questions and answer, and they would likely get into trouble for deviating from those. Telling them that you know more than they do is likely to annoy them and slow down your progress.
I have found that the best way to deal with this is to actually go through all the trouble-shooting steps yourself that you know they'll put you through. For instance, you kn
Re: (Score:2)
Accept that you're a cog in the "Free Trade" model (Score:2)
Doesn't work (Score:2)
Doesn't work. For the other person to realize you have some actual skills and isn't just an irate customer who wants this escalated into the stratosphere because you're so important, he'd have to have some skills of his own and he usually doesn't - that's why he's first line support in the first place. I won't even go into the laughable idea of a password since every temp worker would have to know it and will give it to every buddy who they owe a favor. Not to mention the many how have IT skills in one area
Set it on fire (Score:2, Funny)
Jargon them and sound patiently condescending... (Score:2)
... like you're dealing with a toddler that you really like because it's yours or its mom is a total MILF or something. No, this is not ordinarily a good way to initiate a conversation with another human being, but in this case it's pretty effective. I've found that in the overwhelming majority of the cases I can get passed up a few levels very quickly.
Make sure you talk to a tech that understands (Score:3)
While nigh impossible to get a good techy on the call support line, sometimes you do. And sometimes they listen.
When working on the 1 meg modem project, some of us had developer units. Internet goes down. Pattern of blinky LEDs on modem indicates that issue is with line card at other end.
Call tech support, ask them to reseat the line card. Get massive confusion on their end, as I've got access to better diagnostics then they do. And I know what their GUI looks like. And which alarm is active on it at the moment. Eventually, it sinks in with them, that they have someone who actually helped build the product they were supporting.
In the end, they did reseat the card, and my backup internet came back up.
When I call, my IT IQ drops 100 pts ON PURPOSE (Score:3)
At this point, I've given up trying to help with the problem. I've gone through all the research and diagnosis so many times, with no impact on the phone reps, it's beyond frustrating. I've also demanded to go to the next level of support umpteen jillion times and sometimes it works, but nearly every time, the time spent waiting and going through the problem with two levels of reps isn't worth it.
So at this point, I go through the phone charade.. err script... and make up responses ("Steady green light? No... I see a bright orange light flickering randomly!"), which totally puzzles the rep ("I haven't come across something like that before..."), which almost immediately starts the RMA process.
If the different companies had a way of filtering more tech adept customers, I'd be willing to help out (and I have been for a long time now), but if they aren't investing in that option, neither am I.
codeword (Score:5, Funny)
There are many code words... "please", "thank you", "yessir" and the name of the guy on the other end of the phone (take a moment to write it down).
Re: (Score:3)
This may be voted funny, but it's true.
Common courtesy can both go a long way and is certainly not common enough.
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes "experts" are clueless (Score:2)
I agree that phone support calls can be infuriating, but sometimes experienced tech guys go off on wild tangents and refuse to step through basic troubleshooting. A case in point: I had a customer recently who contacted me frustrated because some equipment was "broken." When I sent him a short and simple list of tasks to do, his response was, "did that yesterday, didn't work." In the next email, I asked him to check one parameter. He went off on me about "irrelevant mindless support scripts that just waste
Try dslreports (Score:2)
The DSLReports forums have special sections for some ISPs where you can talk directly to a senior tech. I was able to get a faulty router replaced super easily there, no phone call required.
IT Pro doesn't ask this question on slashdot (Score:2)
What is with this stream of people recently that thinks they are 'pros' or 'experienced' asking questions that a new grad wouldn't ask?
Don't call yourself a pro and then ask a question about basic life that everyone else on the planet has found a way to cope with.
Quickest way I know (Score:2)
"May I please speak to someone who speaks English as their native tongue?" Followed by, "I'm sorry but I have a hearing disability and it's real difficult for me to communicate with other than native speakers".
Not a gaurentee but this generally expedites a solution.
'IT pro' (Score:2)
Just walk through the call tree (Score:2)
I just go through the call tree just like any unskilled end user. Their system is set up for that and it's faster than trying to escalate (everybody tries that). Once you exhaust their simple triage they'll usually replace the hardware. Don't forget that the front line support probably doesn't undertsand your problem and might in fact be doing front line support for many companies, so it only playing attention to the computer screen.
Extreme example: I had a weird hardware problem with a brand of well kno
Masters of their domain (Score:2)
Unfortunately you might get someone who feels you are in their kingdom and it doesn't matter what you say. For example my brother was having issues with his ISP connectivity. As a networking hardware engineer (his company built backbone T1 switches), he was able to determine that the problem was that the ISP assigned the same IP address to two different modems at the same time. The tech didn't want to believe him and insisted on "testing" his modem. After concluding his test, the tech said there was nothing
This is a problem everywhere (Score:2)
This is a problem EVERYWHERE. I have a business cable line with a small local ISP. I went back and forth fighting with them for TWO WEEKS because they were blocking various TCP/UDP ports. This is normal practice for residential customers (blocking SMTP for example), but is supposed to be open for business subscribers.
What did I do? I documented everything. Forwarded it to the CEO of the company. I found his contact details via LinkedIn. Needless to say, I was invited in to talk with him and a few others in
Re: (Score:2)
Additionally, a nice little technique. Find out what the company uses to refer to their internal tiers of tech support. When calling up, just explain: "oh hey, sorry. I was chatting with Tier 3 tech support and got disconnected, can you direct me back to them please?" - Not sure about nowadays, but I know this used to work easily and consistently with Comcast.
Having being on both sides (Score:3)
Having worked in a tech support call center.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Telling them it "Smells like smoke", "It's hot enough to burn myself on" or since I used to work printer support "It's leaking ink/grease/something".
Will skip a lot of the BS and get you a replacement asap, since they don't want to deal with the legal fallout of it setting your house on fire (or staining a new couch) while troubleshooting. At one fruit themed computer call center we had a "Red Flag Word List" in which if a customer used any of the words, it got transferred immediately to Tier 2. They were all words like Smoke, fire, melting, sparks, swelling (batteries).
Get the human site (Score:4, Informative)
http://gethuman.com/ [gethuman.com] will often give you a decent number to get to an actual human in a lot of organizations. Biased to the US at the moment. The person on the AT&T number has actually asked in puzzlement 'how did you get this number?'. I have no connection with the site, but have had the occasional success with it.
Force Fail ISP's tests (Score:3)
Just take it in (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Taking in a critical router during daylight hours, when Comcast's brick and mortar installations are open, can be awkward. Ensuring that you have failover capacity that can actually take your network load while that equipment is serviced and replaced, and restoring the configuration without interruption, can be nighmarish. This is especially the case in small shops that are trying to grow, shops where the failover capacity has been billed as being enabled but has never been tested or ever actually existed.T
Re: (Score:3)
Sometimes that works, not always. One time I was really happy to be an "expert" user to diagnose a problem with my connection.
A few years ago I had a very very weird connection problem. I could browse, download my e-mails (IMAP), and send out small e-mails. I could not send out larger e-mails (more than about a dozen words and the SMTP upload would stall), nor log on to web sites (the login POST would get stuck indefinitely).
Some serious analyses from my side showed that I could only send out about 190 byte
Re: (Score:2)
For me, $5/mo to rent the cablemodem from Comcast. $80 to buy the router. So it pays for itself in a little over a year. Definitely worth it.
When I got Comcast, I had previously had DSL, and the plan there was they gave you the DSL modem after the first year or something, so they did not charge a per-month fee. I stupidly thought this was true as well for Comcast, and never checked the bill. When I noticed the charge, I went right out and bought my own and haven't looked back.
Re: (Score:3)
Usually what happens is you set up your own modem and they end up charging you a rental fee anyways. You call the service rep and they tell you to restart your computer to solve the problem.
Re: Just take it in (Score:5, Informative)
Not necessarily. What's the cost of your own router vs the rental fee spread out over the months that equal the cost of full upfront. I've found that it's a wash. But when you rent the modem, it's fully supported, they push out firmware updates, and when it fails, not replaced free. When you purchase your own modem, it's all on you.
Mr. Anonymous Coward, I am confident in positing you either work for Comcast or Time Warner.
My Arris-Motorola 6121 cost roughly $65 on Amazon at the time I purchased it. Comcast wants to charge me $8/month for use of their own modem. Even if my modem had died a day out of its one year warranty, I'd have saved $31. As it is, I've had it significantly longer than that and it's still going strong.
Re: (Score:3)
I've heard the arguments for renting cars and houses.
If you're buying a new car every 3-4 years and selling the old one, it can be cheaper to lease instead. If you're buying a car that's a few years old and keeping it until it's worn out, it's much cheaper to buy outright. You pay it off and spend a number of years with a car and no car payment.
Houses, you don't pay off in just a year or two. When you first take out a loan and buy a house, most of your house payment is just keeping up with the interest with
Re:Just take it in (Score:4, Informative)
So you don't want Comcast to spy on you, but you're okay having Google know every DNS lookup from your IP address?
You do realize that Comcast can still sniff all your traffic, right? Even the DNS queries to Google...
Boy I hope you're being sarcastic.
Re: (Score:3)
Keep Receipt when Buying (Score:3)
Make sure you get a receipt! It's no fun getting billed for gear you've returned!
And make sure if you buy your own gear that you get a receipt, both the one for your gear and from the ISP for whatever gear you turn in/don't get. I once had Comcast try to bill me for not returning a modem I had never rented.
Re:hit zero (Score:5, Insightful)
I have actually worked in support. A phone call is the worst possible medium for resolving a technical issue. Either email or chat is far superior. So the reason you are treated like a moron when you phone in, is because you are a moron. Furthermore, since dealing with morons is unpleasant, only the dregs and newbies work the phone lines, and are quickly promoted to chat/email as soon as they display the least bit of competence. Nearly all companies offer chat as an option, since is both cheaper and more effective. So stop using the phone.
Re:hit zero (Score:5, Funny)
Re:hit zero (Score:5, Informative)
It exists for a very specific purpose
http://alphahole.net/?p=1011
Enjoy the story!
Re: (Score:3)
Enjoy the story!
A nice story indeed, but utter bullshit. It has enough snippets sounding vaguely plausible, and similar enough to real facts, but assembled in a way that makes it wrong. To get info about the real deal about the A20 address line, check Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] instead. Interestingly this wikipedia article is also linked from the "nice story" article.
Here's where the "nice story" is wrong:
Re:hit zero (Score:4, Funny)
"Your call is very important to us. We have been experiencing unusually high call volumes lately. Your estimated wait time is 2 years, 37 minutes. Please stay on the line." music
Re: (Score:2)
2) actually wants to help you solve the problen
I believe you overestimate the dedication of a tech support drone at any level.
Re:Keep it simple (Score:5, Funny)
Honestly, as a last resort, it's not a bad idea. I have a fair amount of ESD test gear at work, including a bunch of static discharge guns and the like that can be dialed up to some crazy levels. I was once stuck in a situation much as you - they controlled the modem/router and it was crapping out every few hours, and they were the only game in town for non-dialup access (this was 15ish years ago). I'd already replaced it with a spare that did not have the issue, but since it wasn't provisioned, the only place I could go was their internal pages.
I spent probably two hours going through L1 support, L2 support, and then had them tell me that "oh, sometimes the boxes just do that". So I took the box to work, fried the shit out of it, plugged it back in to let it power up and do real damage to itself now that half the fet gates were probably cooked, and then called them back to tell them that the box had finally crapped out and started smoking. They promptly sent me a new one, and told me "must have been lightning or some sort of power surge."
Yup, a power surge indeed.
Re:Reverse the charges (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Be an "IT pro" already. (Score:4, Funny)
We had some guy who set up cacti to monitor his connection and he claimed he went down every evening around 6:00pm. We looked at our monitoring and sure enough every day his modem went off line around 6:00pm. The cable modem right next door to it never went offline. Sure enough on the day we showed up around 6 to look at what the possible problem could be we noticed the cleaning lady had unplugged the whole rack and had plugged in her vacuum cleaner. Then suddenly the 'pro' noticed that his router had a up time of less than twenty four hours. He didn't have any monitoring on that, just traffic. So I would say around 80% of the time when a 'pro' calls us with a problem, its not our problem.