Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Security Encryption

Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Passwords Transmitted As Cleartext? 251

An anonymous reader writes: My brother recently requested a transcript from his university and was given the option to receive the transcript electronically. When he had problems accessing the document, he called me in to help. What I found was that the transcript company had sent an e-mail with a URL (not a link) to where the document was located. What surprised me was that a second e-mail was also sent containing the password (in cleartext) to access the document.

Not too long ago I had a similar experience when applying for a job online (ironically for an entry-level IT position). I was required to setup an account with a password and an associated e-mail address. While filling out the application, I paused the process to get some information I didn't have on hand and received an e-mail from the company that said I could continue the process by logging on with my account name and password, both shown in cleartext in the message.

In my brother's case, it was an auto-generated password but still problematic. In my case, it showed that the company was storing my account information in cleartext to be able to e-mail it back to me. Needless to say, I e-mailed the head of their IT department explaining why this was unacceptable.

My questions are: How frequently have people run into companies sending sensitive information (like passwords) in cleartext via e-mail? and What would you do if this type of situation happened to you?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Passwords Transmitted As Cleartext?

Comments Filter:
  • Responses (Score:5, Informative)

    by neminem ( 561346 ) <<neminem> <at> <gmail.com>> on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:47PM (#50034425) Homepage

    "How frequently have people run into companies sending sensitive information (like passwords) in cleartext via e-mail?"

    Not *that* often, but more often than you would think. (See plaintextoffenders.com - they've got hundreds of examples.)

    "What would you do if this type of situation happened to you?"
    What I do when this happens:
    1. Take a screencap of the email, black out the username and password, and send it to plaintextoffenders.com
    2. Contact the site admin, let them know that you just did that, and why it's such a bad idea. Link them to http://plaintextoffenders.com/... [plaintextoffenders.com]
    3. Immediately change your password on the site to something stupid that would definitely not even *remotely* help an attacker guess what sort of passwords you might use on other sites, since if their password security is that awful, chances are their security is awful in other ways too.

    • Re:Responses (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:19PM (#50034657)

      "How frequently have people run into companies sending sensitive information (like passwords) in cleartext via e-mail?"

      I see this and people sending both public and private PGP keys to outsiders more than I should from other companies. I assume it's because in general American businesses have devalued IT for so long that they're getting exactly what little they pay for now with barely trained and barely competent people who don't know anything about security.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by PraiseBob ( 1923958 )
      For the first example, this will happen anytime a site has to generate a password for you, that is to say, millions of times a day. The site has to get the password to you, and can do so by generally email, sms, telephone call, or an in person visit. The same 3 letter agency is monitoring all of those electronic methods, so it really doesn't matter which you use, but email is the cheapest by far. The local network/pc is always going to be the weakest link, so use https for webmail. Splitting sensitive
      • For the second example- so what? It's a one-time temporary password that you picked yourself. The risk of a compromise is minimal, the reward for a hacker is minimal. Is it poor security practice... maybe? But you have to weigh the cost-benefit ratio.

        For someone who knows not to use the same password for multiple sites, it's a one-time temporary password.
        For someone who DOESN'T know better, it's probably the same password they use for many or all other sites.

        In this particular example, HOPEFULLY everyone applying for an entry-level IT position falls into the first of those categories. But if that site is used to collect applications for IT positions and other positions, the applicants for those other positions may fall into the second category and the s

    • Really? Of course they will send you a reset password in email. The other option is that or a link.
      Ideally it is only good for a single use and you then enter a new password.
      How else would you do password recovery?

    • 4. Report them to the Feds for a Federal Education Records Protection Act violation.

  • Simple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by juanfgs ( 922455 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:48PM (#50034439)

    What would you do if this type of situation happened to you?

    I'd continue using different passwords for different accounts and not being a whiny bitch about it.

    • Re:Simple (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:05PM (#50034567)

      Don't mod down the angry bro just because he uses bad words.

      The only safe assumption is to assume that no one handles passwords correctly. So you use a different password for every service. Use a password manager and let it generate random passwords for you.

      The question one then to answer for themselves is if I assume they are not properly handling passwords, how much personal information is one willing to provide. You're on your own for that as everyone values information differently.

  • I am a security auditor, and this happens all the time. For non-IT company, If they changed default credentials they are already ahead of the curve.
  • It used to be scarily common, but I believe that it's slowly phasing out in favor of hitting a website where you can (re)set the password yourself after a couple of security questions.

    I believe it's just a sign of old code (or an old coder) on the site. There may be cases where the guy writing the sitecode is inexperienced or incompetent, but I like to think that such cases are rare.

    I think I only see a cleartext password sent via email like once every 10 requests now.

    • It used to be scarily common, but I believe that it's slowly phasing out in favor of hitting a website where you can (re)set the password yourself after a couple of security questions.

      I believe it's just a sign of old code (or an old coder) on the site. There may be cases where the guy writing the sitecode is inexperienced or incompetent, but I like to think that such cases are rare.

      I think I only see a cleartext password sent via email like once every 10 requests now.

      Hey, watch it pal. I was born and raised on '12345' and it's always worked out great for me. Now get off my punch card machine, er, I mean, lawn.

      • Hey, watch it pal.

        (insert South Park pal/buddy/guy/friend reference here)

        I was born and raised on '12345' and it's always worked out great for me.

        (insert Spaceballs reference here)

  • This was one of the reasons I started using a password manager. No need to remember passwords to sites I rarely use and much easier to avoid using the same or similar passwords in general.
  • Security (Score:4, Insightful)

    by corychristison ( 951993 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:54PM (#50034499)

    Your first example is acceptable in my opinion, as that password was probably random and (essentially) single use. After logging in, you should immediately change the password to something you can remember.

    The second example, however, is a big no-no in my books. I develop web based applications for a living. The only time we send a password over e-mail (or SMS) is when a user has locked themselves out of their account, and are using the account recovery tool to regain access. This is how we handle it:
    1. Click on "Forgot Password"
    2. Enter your e-mail address (and username if different from e-mail address), click "Begin Recovery"
    3. Send an e-mail with a verification URL for them to continue the process, this is to confirm they actually are the owner of the email address, and also to weed out people trying to use the recovery process maliciously.
    4. Upon following the URL you will be prompted to answer two security questions you set up on registration from a set of predefined questions. You must answer both correctly to proceed. Internally, when this URL is hit, the account in question is flagged in the DB that it is now in Recovery Mode.
    5. Upon answering the questions correctly, you will be e-mailed a single-use password you can log in with.
    6. Upon logging in, you are required to change your password to something you can remember (or store in a password DB, like you should be doing).

    I know it's long and cumbersome, but it works.

    • by Zumbs ( 1241138 )

      4. Upon following the URL you will be prompted to answer two security questions you set up on registration from a set of predefined questions. You must answer both correctly to proceed. Internally, when this URL is hit, the account in question is flagged in the DB that it is now in Recovery Mode.

      That one would leave me out. Given how "security questions" have been handled in the past, i.e. to be anything but, my response to that sort of thing is to type in random text and usually a lot of it. I also don't see how it increases the security. If the email address of the user has been compromised, it is likely that the intruder would have an easy time finding the correct answers to the questions. In your example, there is actually also no need to send a password to the user. If the questions are answer

      • I see your point. We make it abundantly clear what the security questions are for upon registration, and encourage the users to answer correctly. The questions we ask are not something that would normally be found in a users inbox, and most average users do not index and archive their e-mail. I do, personally, but I archive anything older than 2 years locally on my workstation(s).

        We'll consider the idea of skipping of sending a new password to the user. Thanks for your input.

        • The questions we ask are not something that would normally be found in a users inbox

          A lot of time, the answers to security theater questions are things that would be in a user's Facebook timeline, such as the name of the middle school that the user attended.

      • I'm OK with actually secure security questions. What High School did I go to? Well, I live in Smalltown, NC so it turns out to be Smalltown High. That's a dumb one. Who was my first grade teacher? That's a lot harder info to track down.
        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          Not necessarily in these days of social media... A lot of people have Facebook accounts and will have added relatives or people they went to school with...
          For your example, you already know the school, so you find out a list of their teachers (often published online) and try them all, and if the attacker knows your age they can narrow it down further... Either way there's a relatively small number of possible answers.

        • by lq_x_pl ( 822011 )
          A clever permutation on the security question thing is to pair up irrelevant answers with standard security questions. (the examples that follow are not the pairs I use...)

          Model of first Vehicle -> Futurama

          Where did you get engaged -> IsaacAsimov

          Name of first grade teacher -> polyamory

          Favorite book -> Ethernet Cable

          and so on.
          • by Zumbs ( 1241138 )
            I considered something like that. Then it occurred to me that it was basically like having an extra password to remember.
        • OTOH, I don't even remember who my first grade teacher was.

      • Given how "security questions" have been handled in the past, i.e. to be anything but, my response to that sort of thing is to type in random text and usually a lot of it. I also don't see how it increases the security. If the email address of the user has been compromised, it is likely that the intruder would have an easy time finding the correct answers to the questions.

        Use a password manager.

        For secret questions, make up an answer, note the answer in your password manager.

        Good luck with monitoring emai

      • You're right that it's normally easy enough to find the answers to questions like "what high school did you go to?" I make that much more secure by secretly replacing "you" with "Barak Obama".* I don't enter MY high school, I enter Obama's. I enter Obama's mother's maiden name. So anyone who goes on my Facebook** to get answers will get wrong answers.

        * I actually use another famous person, not Obama.
        ** You won't find much on my Facebook page, because I don't use Facebook. But if I did, it wouldn't sh

    • Send an e-mail with a verification URL

      How do you encrypt this unique verification URL on its way to the subscriber to your service?

      security questions

      I'm sorry; I misread this as "security theater questions" [wikipedia.org]. See "The Curse of the Secret Question" by Bruce Schneier [schneier.com] and "Wish-It-Was Two Factor" by Alex Papadimoulis [thedailywtf.com].

      • There's generally no way to send the user a secure (i.e. encrypted) message. All you can do is make the token short-lived and hope that nobody is intercepting server-to-server email traffic (and that the user's email account is secure, both from malicious clients and from server-to-client interception). It sucks, but until email encryption of one sort or another becomes more ubiquitous, it's the only workable option.

    • You haven't been developing web apps very long, have you?

      Steps 5 and 6 are horrible from a UX perspective and actually lower security a tiny bit.

      By emailing out a single use password you make it possible for someone to eaves drop on the email train and login to your site using the single use password that you sent over email ... in clear text, over a system that may end up easily being stored on disk and snoop-able on many computers.

      There is absolutely no reason to email them the password, you've already ve

  • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:57PM (#50034519) Homepage

    In ham radio command and control over remote digital ground stations all have clear text passwords because it's against the law to encrypt on ham radio bands. So every password is a single use.

    Today, if I connect to the digipeater that is near me I will use the password S4tA12fDg
    and it will work once and only for a certain window for that single login to happen.

    Any company worth anything would do the same. Here is your link, here is your one time use password, you had better get the file in the next 20 minutes or that password will not work.

    Perfectly secure for simple crap that really has zero value like a school transcript.

    • by msauve ( 701917 )
      "In ham radio command and control over remote digital ground stations all have clear text passwords because it's against the law to encrypt on ham radio bands. "

      No, it isn't, at least in the US. It's illegal to use transmit "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning," but the meaning of a password exchange is not obscured when it's encrypted. The meaning is user authentication, not the actual text of a password.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I just thought I should clarify this a tad bit for non-hams. (but the rotating password you provide is a good way to go)
      It is not permissible to encrypt the message in a way which obscures the meaning, but can in a non-obscure way to verify the user is authorized. This is still not common, but possible. One such method with digital modes is to have the user use a private key to sign the message, and the control operator maintaining the station can have the corresponding public key. In a fashion similar to E

  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:58PM (#50034529) Homepage

    Before NMCI came along, I was tasked with taking over a mapping application for the Navy and discovered the app was sending admin credentials in clear text in the URL string. Instead being of grateful I found the obvious sloppy coding they accused me of trying to pad my billing with make work and blaming the previous programmer. When I explained their application was crap and a giant security hole they would say, "Well, it works for us."

    So I totally understand how apps like that make it online.

    • by Bruce66423 ( 1678196 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:11PM (#50034603)
      The inspector general of the navy should be informed, with a copy to the chairman of the armed services committee. Then run away. Fast...
      • Whistle blowers are prosecuted vigorously and do not get the benefit of the doubt.

        When dealing with a government entity you should probably do nothing, as the risks outweigh the rewards at this time. If you still feel like speaking up, raise the issue with your boss in one email, carefully and politely, and file a hard copy of the email somewhere safe. Do not go up the food chain, do not go to the press. If there is a crap storm the hard copy may save you, but even that is not assured.

        The default positio

        • by xombo ( 628858 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @04:25PM (#50035379)

          If you point out government waste or find out that the security practices required by the government contract were not met you can actually receive a % payment for the value of the difference won back in court. Try and work that route instead of just whistle-blowing. If you find the government was over-billed for services that weren't rendered (i.e. security) then you have a real case and there are official channels through which you can work.

  • by dfetter ( 2035 ) <david@fetter.org> on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:04PM (#50034559) Homepage Journal

    If you check with black hats, you will noticed that there are two tactics that they use approximately never:

    - network packet sniffing, and
    - break-ins to email

    What they're saying by this is that passwords sent in the clear are not an interesting target.

    Just trying to bring this conversation back down to earth.

    • by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:10PM (#50034601) Journal
      If passwords are sent in the clear, they are kept in the clear (unless they are one-time randomly generated passwords). And if you check with black hats, you will note that they steal password files all the time. In most cases they'll end up with password hashes, which means they can spend some time and computing power to throw a dictionary at the file and see if any semi-obvious passwords come out. But if passwords are stored in the clear, they end up with everything, no matter how strong your password. And if you use that same password on multiple sites, you'll be in even more trouble.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Right - the "head of the IT department" was like, "OMG another self-righteous clueless nerd who doesn't understand risk analysis."

      There is something that needs fixing here, though - the OP needs to get counselling for his control issues.

  • It's your only defense. Once a password is sent in the clear it's ruined for other uses. So you must assume this will happen and never reuse one.

    • Generally the passwords I reuse are the ones that don't matter much. If someone cracks my /. pw, they might have the access to several unimportant accounts, but not my main email or banking accounts, all of which are unique.

  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:17PM (#50034639) Homepage
    When it comes to passwords, I have found that corporations (and people) do one of two things:

    1) Treat them like worthless things - only having them to satisfy those weirdos that want something called 'privacy', whatever that is. What the hell, use the same default 123 for all passwords.

    2) Here is your top secret password. It must be 23 digits long, have symbols, letters, cyrillic characters and at least one unicode symbol whose name you don't know. Nothing can EVER be repeated, and it must change every 60 minutes. Also do NOT write it down - even though these conditions mean you absolutely have to write it down in order to remember it.

    Honestly, you are talking about your transcript for a University. I can not honestly think of a situation where someone that you don't want to see it would care enough to see it - unless you yourself are planning on committing fraud.

    If I was in charge (and I am not), the university should not use a password. They should let ANYONE see your transcript - but also notify you that someone has requested to see it.

    • I assume the password was for decrypting a password-protected PDF. Just a guess.

  • policy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Orgasmatron ( 8103 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:18PM (#50034641)

    You don't control the security policy of most things that you need to interact with.

    You should be assuming that every single site that is not under your direct and personal control is doing the same thing. Even if they swear that they are not.

    Every password that you give to a remote system should be a unique random password given only to that system and saved in your personal password safe.

    The one exception is having a common password for things that you don't care about. The trick to taking advantage of the exception is making sure that you really, really don't care about any of the systems in that category, and never will.

  • I subscribed to the electronic version of a magazine. Each month I got an e-mail to alert me to the new issue and the e-mail included my plain text password. I contacted them and explained to them why this was a problem. They agreed and got in touch with the company providing the e-magazine service. It took two months, but they stopped the practice. So I think you should just politely inform people.
  • In my case, it showed that the company was storing my account information in cleartext to be able to e-mail it back to me.

    You don't know that for sure. It's entirely possible that the password was generated, sent to you in the clear, stored hashed and the clear version discarded. They can only do that once. If they can do it more than once, it's not being hashed before storage.

    The problem with passwords is that at some point, it has to flow in a form it can be read by a human. We're not to the point where everyone on the planet can do everything with key pairs that prevent it.

  • "Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?" — Tom Bombadil in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings

    "There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things." — Phil Karlton

    This is one of the true hard problems in modern end-user computing, and it comes up all the time. What do you do when you get a phone call like, "hi, this is Don with $MORTGAGE_COMPANY. For security validation, please tell me your address."

    Ho

  • I use "[password redacted]" for my password for this very reason!

    • by neminem ( 561346 )

      The best password: ********

  • If you assume that the only communication channel the company has with you is email (which is generally a pretty good assumption as multiple channels or channels that include humans are expensive), there isn't really any other choice but to send the credentials (password) in plain text.

    This is not a new problem. For the entire history of secure information transmission (cryptography), one of the hardest issues to solve is the issue of initial secret (key) exchange. This problem has been around a lot long
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday July 02, 2015 @03:17PM (#50034967)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • "What I found was that the transcript company had sent an e-mail with a URL (not a link)"

    I thought a URL was a link, what other kind of link are you referring to?

Get hold of portable property. -- Charles Dickens, "Great Expectations"

Working...