Ask Slashdot: What Is the Best Way To Hold Onto Your Domain? 108
An anonymous reader writes: There have been quite a few stories recently about corporations, or other people, wanting to take over a domain. This has me wondering what steps can I take to ensure that outsiders know that my domain is in use, and not up for sale. In my case, I registered a really short domain name(only 5 characters) for a word that I made up. The domain has been mine for a while, and Archive.org has snapshots going back to 2001 of my placeholder page. It could be close to other domain names by adding one more letter, so there is potential for accusations of typosquatting (none yet). I have no trademark on the word, because I saw no reason to get one. The domain is used mostly for personal email, with some old web content left out there for search engines to find. The hosting I pay for is a very basic plan, and I can't really afford to pay for a ton of new traffic. There is the option to set up a blog, but then it has to be maintained for security. What would other readers suggest to establish the domain as mine, without ramping up the amount of traffic on it?
Simple... (Score:1)
Point to a S3 bucket with the placeholder page, and use the domain for email with a service like gmail.
That will be enough to prove that you activelly use the domain for all pratical reasons.
If you try to use it for commercial reasons, then it gets a bit more tricky, because in that case there are trademarks, which may take precedence if your domain is newer then them. Also the simple fact that you use it that way may trail the lawyers on your scent...
The straightforward (Score:5, Insightful)
This has me wondering what steps can I take to ensure that outsiders know that my domain is in use, and not up for sale.
Probably using the domain, and not putting it up for sale would be a good start.
Not all domains are used for public websites. Is this a real problem, or is your domain likely to be confused for a prominent brand? I have domains I've registered but never got round to the project they were intended for, but I don't worry that I have to justify their existence to anyone beyond paying the registration fee.
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I'd agree with this. The situations where the system is abused to steal someones domain is so rare that its not worth worrying about. If Giant Corp Inc really wanted to steal your domain you would probably just disappear one day anyway ;)
Like the parent I've had a few domains over the years - some just because they were for customer projects that never got going and I liked the sound of them. I've even been approached to sell one of them (not enough to make me part with it) but I can't say I've ever worried
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> The situations where the system is abused to steal someones domain is so rare that its not worth worrying about.
What makes you think this? There are entire companies that squat potentially useful domain names, and resell them as desired. They've fallen in prominence as registration has become easier, and registrars have evolved policies to recover expired domain names more quickly. Most of them are pretty benign, and will turn the domain over to the original for what is effectively a "finder's fee". B
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Over 15 years or so I have searched for some domain names based on my actual name (I'm a professional in health care). On a couple of occasions I found an unclaimed name using a registration sites search--I'm not going to name GoDaddy Gesundheit! I could have taken some names at that time, but waited a day. When I went back the next day, the domain names had been claimed by a company GoDaddy gesundheit! I won't name, and were offered to me for prices ranging from a few hundred $$$US on up.
Eventually I figur
14 years (Score:4, Insightful)
You've had a domain for 14 years. You haven't abused it. You have real email traffic and some real website on it. You aren't even in the grey. I would say don't worry about it. Just don't let the domain expire.
Re:14 years (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately that won't stop people trying to take it off you if they want it. I get occasional offers/demands for some of my domains, for example.
It helps to be outside the US, then you can just ignore 99% of the legal threats. Make sure to avoid using a US based domain registrar, so that US courts can't force them to hand the domain over with a default judgement. Make sure you never hint at or imply you might be willing to sell. Sometimes they will offer you insane amounts of money in the hope you will bite, but it's a trap. Once you express interest they will claim you are cybersquatting and try to use the dispute resolution system to take control.
Re:14 years (Score:5, Informative)
Well a few things..
1) USA courts rule over trademark infringement in the United States. Verizon, AT&T, Comcast... are going to go by USA court rules regarding DNS. Ultimately XYZ.com is going to point for USA customers to whatever IP addresses USA courts say it should point to regardless of what register is used as far as ICANN is concerned. A USA court is going to show some but not absolute deference to a foreign government. And for that matter ICANN is going to follow a USA court. Same as the other issues you and I have discussed.
2) Cybersquatting protection requires a trademark violation. The trademark has to exist.
3) There is nothing wrong with hinting you are willing to sell. I'm willing to sell my home for enough money and I still live here. If someone wants to pay me 130% or market (not even an insane amount) I'm out tomorrow. The fact that I would sell for over market doesn't indicate bad faith which is the other thing that needs to be proven.
This guy is acting in obvious good faith.
Re:14 years (Score:5, Informative)
Hold your horses. Hinting that you're willing to sell is probably the worst possible thing you can do if a trademark owner is trying to take your domain away from you. From ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy [icann.org], the first example of a bad faith registration is: " circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name."
Never signal that you're willing to sell, even as a joke. The domain is your baby, and you want it forever. If they offer an amount you're willing to sell for, then take it. But never admit before then that a certain amount would get you to change your mind. When Nissan (the car company) tried to take nissan.com [nissan.com] from Uzi Nissan (the computer store owner) [digest.com] who had registered the domain long before Datsun ever began using their Nissan trademark in the U.S., they asked him how much it would take for him to sell. He replied, "A million dollars. Why can't you understand I'm not going to sell." Basically he pulled a Dr. Evil. Back when the phrase "a million dollars" was first coined and the average person made a few dollars a week, it meant a ridiculously huge sum of money. But today it's not that much money.
Nissan's lawyers immediately took the first half of his statement, snipped out the context in the second half, and presented it to ICANN as evidence he was squatting the domain to extort money from the trademark owner. ICANN then decided to take the domain away from him and put it in escrow until the dispute was resolved (eventually in Uzi Nissan's favor years later, though he lost millions because he wasn't awarded legal fees). If he hadn't used that particular phrase, he might have been able to continue using the domain throughout the legal proceedings.
Read up on the UNDRP [icann.org] if this is something you're really worried about.
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Reread the comment
He clearly hasn't registered primarily for the purpose of selling since he is productively using it. Agreeing to sell property you are using and holding property for only the purpose of selling are different.
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Are there any examples of US companies being able to steal domain names away from foreigners using US courts? I'm not aware of any but your scenario is somewhat plausible, but on the other hand if it happened it could easily cause the rest of the world to ignore US forced changes to DNS. The US doesn't want control of the internet to be taken away from it, especially since it would probably be given to the UN, so it has to play nice.
Best to avoid .com and other "universal but really US" TLDs.
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To the best of my knowledge no. USA courts are satisfied with the private system in place. Which is USA law, if there exists a well known private dispute system the courts tend to lend it power rather than overtake it. So as long as ICANN is responsible ICANN can run it. A somewhat related case was a mainland China owner who owns taiwan.com, was sued by the government of Taiwan and the mainland owner's ownership was upheld by USA courts.
As far as foreign courts splitting DNS. They might. I don't know
It doesn't always end with lawyers, guns and money (Score:5, Interesting)
I was involved in one case where a big company wanted to buy a domain name. The domain owner had done a number of things right -- posted real content about his business on it, and number of things wrong -- indicated that the domain was for sale.
The corporate lawyer looked into the situation and thought that they could win the rights to the domain in court. However, reasonably enough the lawyer indicated that it would probably cost more than it would take to just buy the domain. At the end of the day, the company agreed to pay up to $10,000 for the domain (the owner settled for about $7,000).
The lawyer's reasoning was that the fight would be messy, maybe cost more than $10,000 (in effort and time) and might lose. Also, the potential for bad publicity and pissing off the community didn't make business sense.
The system sort of worked. In the end, everyone got what they wanted. The domain owner got a reasonable payout without too much effort (switching his domain wasn't that hard, and the corporation agreed to forward the email for six months or longer if needed), the company got the domain it wanted, no one got pissed off and no animals were injured.
Sometimes things work out for the better.
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I say you're probably a cybersquatter, and don't deserve help.
You really are a delight.
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Put your brain into gear.
1) Anonymous coward.
2) Danger of being a typo for a known brand.
3) Unwilling to spend any time on making a real website, just wants to put something there that would give him a legal argument if it came to a legal battle.
Of course he's a cybersquatter.
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Sounds about right to me. Have you seen the topics we discuss lately? A lot of them can be answered with lmgtfy.
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I have domains I've owned for that long with similar low usage, and I'm not cybersquatting. Not everyone who behaves differently than you is a cybersquatter.
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For fuck's sake.
1) You're not posting as an AC.
2) Presumably it's not a typo for a known brand.
3) You're not asking on Slashdot for some ruse to make it look like the domain is in use when it isn't really.
You don't look like a duck, he does. What the fuck don't you understand?
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Some of my domains could easily be targets for some corporation that decided they had to have a particular domain. SOme of them have virtually no content or and have seen little use, either because I stopped working on the project or haven't started it yet.
In some ways I think my circumstance is indeed similar his, but either way I don't see the need to be so unpleasant in your response if you happen to disagree.
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I don't suffer fools gladly.
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All words are made up.
Re:A word you made up? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is it: a word you made up, or a well known domain name minus a letter?
It could be both... and even if it is the latter, that doesn't necessarily mean the domain was registered in "bad faith," which is a legal standard for cybersquatting. Are you suggesting that trademarks should extend not only to an actual trademarked name, but to all conceivable misspellings or abbreviated versions, etc.? That's not the legal standard... nor should it be. Trademarks are already a fairly broad restriction on public freedom, and they should only be extended beyond the actual name when there's an intent to deceive or to profit by confusion with the "real" name.
Because using duck typing, I say you're probably a cybersquatter, and don't deserve help.
Why? He's a guy who has had a domain for 14 years, appears to actually use it for something, and apparently any connection to a real world trademark is either so tenuous that no action has been taken so far or the trademarked name actually postdates his website, so the threat to his private website is new.
In any case, it sounds to me that it's more likely the poster is a typical Slashdot paranoid... worried about a threat that probably isn't significant.
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Are you suggesting that trademarks should extend not only to an actual trademarked name, but to all conceivable misspellings or abbreviated versions, etc.?
No I'm not. I'm saying that all the clues point to cybersquatter:
AC question, lack of desire to put anything there that would take any time to do, worried about bandwidth costs of having a site that anyone would visit, trademark misspelling.
It walks like a cybersquatter and it quacks like a cybersquatter.
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It walks like a cybersquatter and it quacks like a cybersquatter.
Ummm... no? I used to own a domain name that was the screen name I used to use for games online. I had not interest in setting up or maintaining a website; however, I did use it for email for quite a while. I also used it for a couple of private services that I could get to remotely but would never have exposed to the public. Amongst other things this included SVN repos for private, personal projects and a couple of other goofy things most of which weren't actually made accessible via HTTP. Just because som
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You could always point it to a blogging service (Score:3)
Secure blogging (Score:2)
The short answer is nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, that's the man bites dog story.
The typical case is that it's a cybersquatter who's either registered thousands of domains in the hope of some of them paying off. Or worse: that's got a script looking for expired domains and snatches them up, in the hope that some schmuck who accidentally let a domain expire pays to get it back.
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The cybersquatter might be discussing that. I'm discussing cybersquatters.
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Currently that redirects to a different site. Not surprising as no one with any knowledge of dotcom crashes would willingly be associated with boo.com
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With domain this makes sense because there is no real issues like with real estate. There is no one who is going to have to move to another country instead of staying close to their family, so there is no push for
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Re: The short answer is nothing (Score:1)
Please explain how IPv6 renders domain names obsolete. Are we switching to cute hexadecimal leet speak for our new URLs after the switch? That'll be a rather geeky land grab / gold rush...
Hmm, wonder how much getting the 80.0.8.255 subnet would cost?
Use it. (Score:2)
Actively use the domain.
Get your email via the domain.
Have a nice web page there like a blog.
Sell something through the domain, web page and blog.
Have ads from Google ads and such on the domain's site.
Trademark the word.
Copyright the logo with the word embedded.
Keep it all active.
None of this needs to be expensive and it shows that you are actively using it. Then if someone sues you for it you can easily defend yourself and sue back for damages.
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Likewise, if he isn't really committed enough to the domain to do all that then he doesn't much need it anyway - except for sentimental reasons and/or bragging rights. Personally, if I had a domain that was of so little use to me as his, which was attracting a lot of interest, I'd just sell it to the highest bidder and be done with all the headaches.
I actually have the converse case: I have multiple domains which aren't extremely short (7 letters or more), but were bought over 10 years ago, so they're shor
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To be safe, you should never show ads if your domain name is close to an existing trademark. Especially if it's a reasonably valuable name that is worthwhile going after, whether generic or brandable.
If you own apples.com and a Mac ad showed up in the ad feed, you'd significantly hurt your defense in the UDRP process if Apple submitted screenshots of it. The panel lawyers are notoriously inconsistent and this would just give ammo for them to approve the transfer. Even if your registration was earlier tha
Get a trademark (Score:2)
Get a trademark on the domain name ending in .com. No one else will trademark a domain name they don't own. When someone comes around to sue you, sue them back for trademark infringement. I think there have been a few cases where Walmart has tried to eliminate pre-existing trademark owners. Walmart lost, and all the cases ended in settlements.
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Domain Registrars are all scammers (Score:5, Interesting)
WARNING, DO NOT GO TO THE DOMAIN LISTED, ITS SPYWARE INSTALLER NOW.
I had pandora[x].com since 2000, on auto-renew, suddenly pandora.com actually hit big, registrar turned off auto-renew, the alert emails were nowhere to be found, and my domain was suddenly owned by a cayman islands company. The creation date is still 2000-01-12..
GoDaddy themselves transferred another domain of mine to one of their third party scamming companies that tries to sell domains while I was trying to get it renewed (within that 30 days after it expires). It's been 6+ years and they've done nothing with it, just sitting there, I have .net .org and .us for the name as well. Creation date on it is still 2000-01-16.
Don't ever take a chance with your domains, register them for 10 years at a time. GoDaddy, while having some useful services, will fuck you.
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Lesson: never rely on others to save you from yourself.
100% agree. I've owned a 4char domain for over two decades. Fortunately it's not a common combination and doesn't make any good acronyms, so no problems so far for me. But I still keep it registered 10 out AND make damn sure I know my d
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Don't ever take a chance with your domains, register them for 10 years at a time. GoDaddy, while having some useful services, will fuck you.
I thought we all knew that GoDaddy is a bunch of super shitbags by now. If you search a domain there and don't buy it, they often do... and squat it. They can't DIAF soon enough.
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OTOH, you could have simply ponied up the 10 bucks to renew it and not let it expire. No conspiracy needed.
Or in the rare instance that your domain was stolen, you would have filed a complaint with ICANN along with your supporting documentation and gotten the domain back.
Scare Them Off (Score:2)
Imagine the court proceedings!
Make them not want to be associated with your domain!
This is a great day /., finally a legitimate use for goatse guy
Save some pennies (Score:3)
I know it'd be a moderate chunk of cash, but my recommendation would be to save up and purchase a 100-year domain registration. I think it runs about $1,000, but that'd likely take care of your fears.
index.html (Score:1)
A good example (Score:1)
I am the owner of the domain OSVISTA.COM. You would probably think "he must really like Windows Vista", followed by "how has Microsoft not sued him for that domain?" Thing is, I bought that domain years before Microsoft announced Vista; I just liked how it sounded. I use the domain for email, and I don't host any Windows related websites. Microsoft has never even contacted me about it, presumably because once they saw the registration date and that I am not using it in a way that conflicts with their tr
You're in good shape (Score:1)
The Uniform Domain Resolution Policy (UDRP) is a legal system set up to quickly and cheaply handle domain name disputes. Trademark holders (the complainant) use this system to file a case against a domain holder (the registrant, or respondent) to obtain a domain that they feel should rightfully belong to them.
The onus is on the complainant to prove three things (they have prove ALL THREE):
1. the domain is identical or confusingly similar to the trademark
2. the registrant does not have legitimate interest or
register a domain as a .co.uk (Score:1)
Hi,
The best thing to do is to register a .co.uk or any domain looked after by Nominet. http://www.nominet.org.uk/ [nominet.org.uk]
If you join Nominet as a registrar it costs it's £400 + VAT joining fee and £100 + VAT per annum.
That allows you to register at wholesale prices and control your domain via PGP instructions. (Or it was the last time I was a member)
So:
a) Updates are secure by PGP
b) Your domain is protected by Nominet and UK laws, which compared to other legal jurisdictions are i) cheaper ii) more sensi
How About Registering a Service Mark? (Score:1)
I assume that you provide some sort of service (heck, it could be mowing the lawn), or can claim to provide some sort of service.
It costs about $375, but it would force anyone who challenges you to prove their case, and to provide proper service, before going the UDRP root, which lacks a lot of safeguards.
Have a boring blog (Score:1)
Start a no-comments-allowed blog called "TWRYX's blog" (or whatever the five-character name is) and make it very boring so it doesn't generate much traffic. Have your hosting provider block traffic for the rest of the day if it exceeds more than a pre-set limit so you don't get billed for any overages.
Bonus points if you can make it a backronym to something connected to something about you but which doesn't compromise your personal security (e.g. "Tennessee's Wacky Railroad's Yellow Xings" if you lived in
You could also do the Blogger/Blogspot Thing (Score:1)
Basically, create a blog on Blogspot, and then set it up for a custom subdomain: How do I use a custom domain name for my blog [google.com]?
Then follow the directions at a link.
The blog will be hosted on Blogger, which will handle maintenance, but the URL will point to (for example) https://blog.xyzzy.com/ [xyzzy.com] .
I would still try to find something that you can place a trademark or service mark on, and have the home page explaining the product/service.
Set up Email (Score:2)
HTML (Score:2)
basic tips for legitimate domain holders (Score:2)
As you've implied, but just to make it clear: It's not legitimate for someone to declare your domain's death in absentia just because they can't see anything new and cute. The domain name system was not invented for website addresses in the first place; it was invented to let people assign their own names for computers, and it's nobody's business whether they can see your list of zero or a million computers that are also none of their business. That being said, I'll mention a few tips to defend your domai
Register a trademark anyways. (Score:1)
Why not use Google Apps? (Score:1)
Re:Stop cyber squating (Score:5, Insightful)
If you read the article, you'd see he said he was using it for email.
That's not cybersquatting. Just because it doesn't have a webserver it does not mean it's not being used.
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