Ask Slashdot: How Do You Find Jobs That Offer Working From Home? 318
jez9999 writes: I'm a software developer in the UK, and I've found that it's very rare (maybe 5% of the time) to find an employer that will even consider any working from home, let alone for the majority of the time. I see it as a win-win; you're able to work in the home environment you are most productive in, and you can use the time you would've been commuting to work a bit longer for the employer. Not only that, but you're not adding to road congestion either. Skype, etc. make communication with coworkers a snap these days. So how do you go about finding homeworking jobs? Is it better to demand it from the get-go, or wait a few months and then ask for it? Is it more common than 5% of jobs in the US (in which case I guess it's a cultural thing the UK needs to catch up with)?
trick them into it ... (Score:2, Insightful)
One trick I learned just recently: Tell them at the interview, that you got another offer, and you have to think about which one is better for you.
Then they'll ask what the final decision critera will be, and then you tell them "well, at the other company, I will be working from home.".
In my case that got them to say "well, home-office is not a problem at all, as long as you show up for the meetings" :-)
good luck!
andi
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I got one day a week work-from-home, then got laid off two years later in the recession (I made it through the first two rounds of layoffs, though.)
Re:trick them into it ... (Score:4, Interesting)
there's light-years long queue out of here of people who would gladly accept to get shit upon their faces to get a job
Maybe if you're a burger flipper. How about developing your skillset so that you're not just another drone? There are people who are highly sought after. My wife for example was made redundant at a Fortune 500 and another large company called her the minute they found out (about a week after her notification) to offer her an even better position. She didn't have time to work on her CV before she was on a plane to do the interviews. Needless to say she got the job. And there is no question of her working from home when she wants to.
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People dont understand that.
It's why I am fending off job offers monthly. I have a skillset that is in very high demand and I am in a field that has never had a lot of people in it.
So when I get a job offer and change jobs, I can dictate my pay, compensation and work conditions. I dont start a new job with the peons and starter vacation, I start at max vacation, the desk type I want, the equipment I want, and the amount of office space and window.
This is what happens when you work hard at being someone
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This is very true. I get contacted by recruiters almost non-stop, and the last two jobs I interviewed for I got offers. I don't interview a lot because truth be told I really like where I am, but sometimes it is worth exploring other opportunities.
Re:trick them into it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lumpy is exactly right. If others reading this think that he's bragging (and that's why they marked it a troll) they're missing the point. I cannot tell you the enormous difference in negotiation when you are confident (not arrogant) and put yourself in a position where people know you before you walk in the room. It's not that hard to do, and it absolutely puts you in the driver's seat.
Don't ever let them pressure you into naming your "current" salary, that's a ploy to see how cheap they can get you. If they don't let up, thank them for their time and leave, because they're not serious about you. You can absolutely negotiate MUCH more than most people realize. That goes for office, working remotely, salary, benefits, etc.
Re:trick them into it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know why this comment is marked troll, because it's absolutely not a troll, it is the absolute truth. I have had the EXACT same experience. I get an average of 2-4 recruiters contacting me with offers each month. I've worked hard on honing my skills, I've worked hard on networking locally/regionally, I've worked hard to ensure that my resume is up to date and relates my track record well, etc. Lumpy is exactly right. If others reading this think that he's bragging (and that's why they marked it a troll) they're missing the point. I cannot tell you the enormous difference in negotiation when you are confident (not arrogant) and put yourself in a position where people know you before you walk in the room. It's not that hard to do, and it absolutely puts you in the driver's seat.
I'll tell you the same thing I told Lumpy. You seem to be saying that all one needs to do is be a superstar. Superstars are, by definition, a small percentage of the population. We cannot all do this. The vast majority cannot do this. Therefore it isn't really valuable advice. A goal to shoot for, absolutely. But if the key to success is to be in the top 10%, it leaves out the other 90% by definition.
Re:trick them into it ... (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'm saying is, no, you do not have to be a "superstar", and my experience has been that it being a game of the elite 10% getting all the jobs, and the "other" 90% just have to suck chuck is really a bit of an illusion. I have found that a great number of people vastly underestimate their own value, and don't do a great job of expressing/relaying their skills because I think they are afraid that they're coming off as a brash, arrogant ass. There is a good deal of difference between being a cocky jerk and someone with composed confidence, and it is truly not that hard to hone that skill. Go on interviews for jobs that you have no intention of actually getting (make it in your field, obviously) and practice the interview process. You really will get better with practice.
The other thing that people dramatically underestimate is how important networking and just putting yourself in social situations with folks (peer level and above) from your industry. Pretty much every industry has several major, national organizations that hold regular events around decent sized cities. Sure, they might be dumb events where you're accosted by 1,500 sales folks trying to hawk you their favorite new product, or you may have to endure listening to some speaker drone on endlessly about something that makes no sense, but the opportunity to just chum up to folks before and afterward is a huge one, and most people just write it off as a waste of time. It is my opinion that this is a mistake. Just getting your face in people's minds puts you at an advantage, if you happen to fall naturally into a conversation with some folks at a company you have a chance to make an impression. It may not come into play for a couple of years, but if you do that enough, eventually, you start being someone that people kind of know and remember. So, when your resume ends up on their desk, they think "oh yeah, that guy!".
Now listen, my ego would LOVE to believe that I'm this superstar. That would be just dandy with me. But I truly do not feel that I am. I apply myself, sure. And, I'm also not a lazy person, but I'm going to assume that you are not either (most of us geek-nerd types aren't). I just think that people become resigned to be one of the "lesser 90%" and assume that there are these amazing people out there scooping up all the good jobs. I say, any of us can stand out in a crowd, and that's really all it takes.
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Anything you do very well. Just being in the top 20% of your field is sufficient, although top 30% weeks to be workable if you have a good network.
Working from home adds a layer of complexity to things, but isn't a deal killer if someone can handle the issues.
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Honestly, the best way to get a "work from home" job is to quit looking at jobs that want a presence.
Which brings us back to the original question: How can someone who recently graduated from university find a job that doesn't require a presence?
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On lamp posts (Score:5, Funny)
I'm always driving past flyers on street sign posts offering jobs earning £5000 a week from home!
However I'm happy earning tuppence in an office away from the kids, so haven't ever given them a try...
Re:On lamp posts (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, you're doing it wrong. Your kids could each be earning £5000 a week while you are out at "the office".
Generally? You don't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Generally? You don't.
The trend is away from this for software developer positions, unless you are willing to do contract work. There are several major things driving this right now:
(1) The employer doesn't have to allow it in order to be able to recruit talent, so they don't. A lot of managers engage in "management by walking around", and you are unlikely to get one of these types to sign off.
(2) Stacked ranking. If you're not in the office, and not "seen as being a strong contributor by your nominal coworkers, you'll get ranked poorly, and you will be the first person "PIP'ed" (Performance Improvement Program), and, if there are layoffs, you get to be near the top of the list.
(3) If they don't care where you are working from, be pretty sure that the job isn't going to be landing in a country with expensive labor, like the U.K., the U.S., and so on; if they are going to take on a remote worker, it's not going to be from your neck of the woods.
(4) Employer culture is considered important; if you want to have an employer, expect to come into the office so that they can culturally indoctrinate you. Yahoo laid off all their remote employees over this, and it's been the trend at Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, and so on. This is somewhat part and parcel with the stacked ranking, but it's the other side of the coin.
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This pretty much happened to me at HP. I worked the first 10 years mostly in the office, and the last four years as a remote worker.
At the end of 2003 HP announced they wanted all employees in the office again.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/no-more-working-home-hewlett-packard-employees
I lasted a couple more years after that, but I knew it was only a matter of time. I didn't want to go back into the office anywhere, so I became a medical marijuana caregiver. By the time I was laid off I was abl
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the esp8266 will blow your freakin' tits apart.
I love these little modules. I have some 01s, 03's, and 11's and they are a blast to play with hooked up to my teensy 3.1's
A real blast until you forget the 3.3v issue and they really smell bad @ 5v.
Re:Generally? You don't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Firstly to say I am not arguing against what you said. I do however want to add to point 4.
Getting employee buy-in is important. An employee that is engaged, that believes he has a higher purpose than just working for this company will put more effort and pride into his work. In theory higher quality and more work is the result.
This internal marketing helps employee retention as well as getting many of them to do more for no additional pay because they are committed and feel it is their duty.
Most new employees will eat this up and feel they are part of a larger group, a wider family, with a purpose beyond just plain old Monday work. After a period of time people, being smart, wisen up and read between the lines if they have not already. then the "engagement" becomes a game of pretending. Managers pretend to be engaged and pursue engagement activities (that include making sure no one works from home) and employees pretend to be engage and embrace the "culture" as a valued framework.
Many companies will cite Yahoo's experience and many managers will see it as "proof" of something. I believe it all boils down to the employee in question.
Most employees will be very concerned that they may be viewed as not doing much if they are working from home and will often do more "just to make sure". but perception is the name of the game. If your manager thinks people that wear jeans are not serious about work well...we know what happens if a candidate shows up to an interview in jeans.
As a society we are still a bit far off the holy grail of working from home. The old way of thinking is still prevalent and despite having the technology this way of thinking is holding us back as a society. Imagine the cost savings if you did not have to provide your employees with environmentally controlled facilities and giant office spaces. Imagine how much traffic will be saved if 50% of us do not have to actually be physically at work.
Personally I find working from home easier. I can sleep more and have an environment that I enjoy and helps me concentrate. I don't need a manager to interrupt me as he reads through his emails or colleagues playing music wanting to gossip over coffee or deal with the less than gourmet food on offer.
In conclusion I think that a person wanting to work from home needs to find the right employer and that is where the real challenge lies. Most do not advertise that you can work from home so it's still a matter of finding out manually. It's one of the questions I'd ask of a future employer.
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While that is definitely important, I find that management buy-in is more important. More specifically, director/VP/C-level management. Managing remote workers or teams is more difficult than helicopter micromanagement. Bad, insecure managers need to see you working; good managers look at your productivity. Measuring prod
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So, if this is important to you, the right time to ask i
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It does seem to be rare. I had one job in the UK that allowed it, but I was reporting to a US project team and my UK manager didn't really give a fuck as longs the cash kept flowing through his department.
I've seen some terrible abuse and it's quite clear that some people just can't be trusted to work from home. In the US i've never had a job that didn't allow it at least some of the time, though at one place I had to spend at least 40% of my time in the office or I'd lose a permanent desk.
It seems like a g
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I'm a UK employer with around 50 employees in the business, with 6 in the dev team. The sales team are mostly remote and whilst my development team are office based I'm not that worried where they're based as long as they get the job done. Our head office is oop north and the dev team down south anyway so there is already an element of remote working involved.
However I've yet to see anyone make a truly compelling case for routine remote working. My developers tried it when we first started the business a
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I'm a little surprised at the original asker's question, and his suggestion that the UK may be culturally behind on this aspect because what you say is true, of the US.
I've had 5 dev jobs at different employers and all of them have allowed home working. To address your points relative to the UK:
(1) I don't think this is true in the UK, developer salaries are still very much on the increase and have been for years. Companies are still stuck having to improve terms and salaries to get the necessary staff. If
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For point 3, it really depends where you live. Some of our employees have 2-hour commutes each way. While we prefer for them to first move closer to the office, it often is not possible. The least likely position in our office we recently agreed to let work from home two days per week-- someone that needs to coordinate with all the executives on tight deadlines.
If someone is good, you try to make it work. This person will have an uphill battle, but we will try.
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To expand on this, it also depends a lot on the job. While you're absolutely correct for software developer positions, there are other completely different positions that offer work from home that actually works.
One prime example is my job. I'm a consultant who works for a (very) large technology company. In my role I have very clearly defined deliverables that require me to get off my butt and do stuff; namely customer visits, presentation, system designs and so forth. And my pay is structured such that I
Re:Generally? You don't. (Score:5, Informative)
(5) Not everybody is more productive when working from home as there may be more distractions at home than at work. Walking the dog, doing the washing up, etc. Troubleshooting certain problems is (far) easier locally than remotely.
Too true. We can work from home occasionally, but my wife hasn't got the idea that working from home is working. It's very nice to be offered cups of tea occasionally, but being asked if you want anything every five minutes - oh and can I come to get something heavy out of the cupboard, empty the bin, see how cute our dog looks as he's gone to sleep leaning in a corner and so on ... I only work from home if I'm snowed in or something as I really do get a lot less done.
Re:Generally? You don't. (Score:4, Insightful)
The same thing applies in an office environment, only instead of one wife you now have 50 colleagues who want help with this and that (often not work related), or just want to chat about the weather...
Many people are single, or have wives/girlfriends who also work and aren't at home during the day.
The other thing is being able to prioritise distractions... If someone sends you an email asking for something, you can wait until you're finished whatever you're currently concentrating on, but if they walk up to your desk or call you then it forces you to immediately stop what your doing to respond to them... This can be very troublesome if you're trying to concentrate.
My job has a mix of home working, office working, and working in client's offices... I find i get a LOT less done if i'm working in our office, partly because of the distractions and partly because it's just a terrible office with bad seating, bad desks, broken climate control etc.
Client offices are a different story, as most of the people there don't know you there are usually much fewer distractions, although the actual conditions can vary... If it's quiet and comfortable then i can get a lot more done there, if it's noisy and/or uncomfortable then a lot less gets done.
That said i still think home working is better overall at least for me, if only because of the time and inconvenience saved on travel... There are more and more businesses being crammed into a small area in most cities and expecting people to all work at the same time, this creates massive congestion on all travel routes at certain hours, and results in inefficient over capacity at other times. I find it utterly ridiculous how they insist on so many people travelling to the same area at the same time, things should be far more spread out.
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The same thing applies in an office environment, only instead of one wife you now have 50 colleagues who want help with this and that (often not work related), or just want to chat about the weather...
It's a lot easier to tell someone at work to go away because you are busy, and there is a clear escalation path if they don't. Just to be clear I am not saying that everyone has difficulty working from home, there were times in my life when it would have been easy - just that not everyone can work as well from home. Obviously as well there are some jobs that need physical presence.
Re:Generally? You don't. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a lot easier to tell someone at work to go away because you are busy, and there is a clear escalation path if they don't.
It is not, however, easier to tell someone at work to shut up because their noise is distracting you, and there is frequently no escalation path on that. Open-plan office and "talk out loud whenevr you like" are by design. Headphones often don't fully shut out the noise and are just a distraction in themselves.
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The same thing applies in an office environment, only instead of one wife you now have 50 colleagues who want help with this and that (often not work related), or just want to chat about the weather...
Except that this is actually good. Sure your productivity drops. But the company's as a whole increases. You should absolutely see it as your job to help your colleagues be able to do their job. Your company certainly does.
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This is a problem with you - you have not established clear boundaries with your wife. My wife works from home and I know to leave her alone. She informs me of which calls are important so I take the dogs and keep them in the bedroom with me so that they are quiet if the doorbell rings, etc. Since I work from home too but I'm more flexible I make lunch at the time she agreed to have it (according to her outlook calendar for the day). I only start complaining when I see it's 7pm and she's still working... or when she allows herself only 10 minutes for lunch, but I know she won't change. But tell me - why doesn't your wife work? That way she'd leave you alone.
I've suggested working to her a number of times. When the kids were younger it made sense for her to stay at home - before they started school the day care costs would have been more than her salary, but she could work during the school day now.
I have to say though that apart from when I try to work at home she looks after the house and the kids well, has a meal ready for me when I get home and is always attentive - which is nice.
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(5) Not everybody is more productive when working from home as there may be more distractions at home than at work. Walking the dog, doing the washing up, etc. Troubleshooting certain problems is (far) easier locally than remotely.
Too true. We can work from home occasionally, but my wife hasn't got the idea that working from home is working. It's very nice to be offered cups of tea occasionally, but being asked if you want anything every five minutes - oh and can I come to get something heavy out of the cupboard, empty the bin, see how cute our dog looks as he's gone to sleep leaning in a corner and so on ... I only work from home if I'm snowed in or something as I really do get a lot less done.
When I was working from home a lot, I was in the fortunate position of not having daily deadlines to meet. As a result, I was *more* productive at home. The scheduling freedom meant that I could take care of occasional personal stuff during the day that just couldn't get done on evenings or weekends. But because I tended to be kind of 'uptight Protestant' about my work ethic, (and because I really liked what I was doing), I more than made up for that by working early mornings and late evenings. Being at hom
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When it was 'in vogue' in the 2000s, people abused working from home horribly. That pretty much killed it. There are some companies that still allow it for a lot of their top talent, but usually you have to prove that you are top talent. ADP comes to mind.
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I am neither a machine-minder nor a clerk. I cannot get things done effectively simply by switching on and off like a light. I need to sit down, do stuff, then take a rest to recuperate and meditate what I did so I can come back and make sure that they're done better.
Over the years, I've observed that my most productive workday consists of 2-3 sprints with recovery times of about 2 hours between them.
This is not a good match for the factory-style roll-in at 8, work until noon, roll-out at 5 that's the accep
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I also find that random discussions are much harder to have remotely. I need these to relax my brain. For every 30min-1hr of real work, I need about
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I also find that random discussions are much harder to have remotely. I need these to relax my brain.
Just goes to show how different people are - I'm the opposite. If my brain suddenly gets distracted for 15 minutes after 45 minutes of concentration, I'm totally thrown off what I was doing and it will make me a lot less productive.
SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:2, Insightful)
Tried it and hated it (Score:5, Interesting)
Up until recently I was an independent software development contractor. In the beginning of my career, I was working from home on semi isolated components, and I really hated it. It's very hard to concentrate on anything with all the distractions, you can't talk to anyone (even if it's just bitching about something), you don't get to know what's going on in the company, and when you have as small an apartment as I had back then, it's very hard to "switch off" from work after work, because in my case, my desk and bed were in the same room, and that makes it hard to "switch".
Add to that the obvious problem of constant distractions... but then, you get those in the office, too ;)
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Well your example shows that working environment matters a whole lot, and it's different for everyone.
A small apartment is not good, you really need a separate room with somewhere comfortable to sit. Then there should be very few or no distractions at home, but you also have the convenience of somewhere to go and relax when you need a break, and an ample supply of food/drink etc.
If you want a lack of distractions, a typical open plan office is a terrible environment because there are usually many distractio
It has advantages and disadvantages (Score:2)
One way to get to work from home is to become indispensable. For example, I told my boss that I will move to another country and he asked me if I could continue working from there. I accepted and it had many advantages, the biggest for me being the fact that I then moved to a third country, still keeping the same job. But it is true that you have many distractions and it is hard to separate your working from non-working hours, which poses problems if you have a family or at least a wife. And the lack of the
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My suggestions:
1. use chat clients, not email - they're more personal and frequently funnier
2. try to have a group chat channel for the whole team
3. have regular (daily) calls - we have daily scrum meetings these days, and that helps a lot to keep you in the loop
4. separate your work, hobbies and life as much as possible - you cannot possibly work if you're constantly
Easy ... (Score:2)
Easy:
https://weworkremotely.com/ [weworkremotely.com]
http://37signals.com/remote/ [37signals.com]
Difficult:
Software is usually developed in a team.
Working remotely in a software team: simply does not work!
Re:Easy ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Working remotely in a software team: simply does not work!
o_O
You mean .... like the loosely organized software team that has developed the Linux kernel hasn't worked out?
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So, with that manager in the way, one who can't really type fast, and has problems understanding IRC, mailing list etiquette, commits, you name it -- isn't going to be comfortable with a system that really doesn't need him.
Sounds to me like that's going to be a problem no matter if you work remotely or not :o
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It has consistently failed to find itself a commercial niche and now there are none left.
Uh you mean like Android phones? Yeah those are a total failure :(
C'mon, you're not even trying :)
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I'd challenge this guy to find a company with a significant web presence that serves on Windows.
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Found the shitty manager.
Ask (Score:2)
Ask.
If employers are reluctant, ask for a trial -- say, commute everyday for the first two month (settle in, build relationships). Then the trial - work from home a day a week for two months. Then, the employer considers changing your home/office mixture.
Please remember -- more productivity at home is often at the expense of less productivity of your colleagues at the office. Simply because its easier to walk up and interrupt them in person. Acknowledging this fact will go a long smooth toward smoothing ov
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If still no, and the job's a keeper, try moving closer to work.
This is often a big problem... A lot of businesses want to have offices in certain areas, which are generally the areas where other businesses are based... You end up with dense commercial zones, where residential properties are very scarce, very expensive and very small usually with no gardens.
You also end up with massive congestion on all travel routes at specific times (i.e. travel conditions that would be illegal for transporting livestock), and wasteful over capacity at other times.
Moving closer to wor
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That last point was really a throwaway, but even moving enough to cutting a commute by half (say) saves that much time over the years its like the second job you didn't need to keep.
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My answer said *ask*, not "demand".
Keep him happy (Score:2)
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You back to basement and build more server! NO SLEEP YOU SLACKER!
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Find somebody who has money, and keep him happy. That's what the best hookers do, and it has fed me and my family for 25 years.
WTF?
I found a (Chinese) family with money and I build whatever software / servers / sites they ask me for. I even live where they asked me to live.
Oh, that sounds a little better :)
Here's how we do it (Score:2, Informative)
I am the hiring manager at a software development shop. We allow working from home, and it works well for us. I don't think we ever have 100% of the developers in the office at any given time, but work still gets done. Some developers work from home 3 or more days per week.
From my company's perspective, here's how we do it:
1. If we hire you but don't know you personally, you'll be expected to be in the office daily for a few weeks to integrate with the team, get used to everyone's work style, personality, e
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It sounds like you are doing it right. I wish you'd tell your story more places.
Whether remote work is accepted or not does depend on culture. Some of it may be due to the particular country culture. Eg. if the companies in a country generally have deep hierarchies and generally view the employees as peons and the employees in return do as little as possible then remote work is unlikely to be accepted. But while the overall country culture has an impact the company culture has more impact.
My story:
After get
Cut Your Living Expenses (Score:2)
I imagine that part of your desire to work from home is self-actualization and better use of time? I think a good way to achieve this is to try to build a strong foundation and cut your living expenses. This way you can be selective about the types of employers and jobs that you work on. You might need to offer a very competitive rate initially, or just start working from home (open-source) and let people know you're for hire, but once you've got your foot in (your own front) door, opportunities should stea
It can be a dream! (Score:2)
Performance-driven projects (Score:2)
My most productive hours are from 10pm till midnight, at home.
Everybody else is sleeping, nobody calls, no colleague can bother me.
I listen to a CD I've listen to a few hundred times, and I work in a very focused manner on important new features or bugfixes.
Before going to bed, I send a short email to my boss describing what I did.
After about a week, we have our usual meeting, during which colleagues say "we should do this and this, it'll probably take a month or two", with the hope that they won't be the o
Usually has to be earned (Score:5, Insightful)
homeworking jobs? Is it better to demand it from the get-go
I doubt there's a company in the land that would recruit an unknown, straight off the street, give them a salaried post and let them work 100% from home.
For a start, there's no guarantee you wouldn't just goof around for the 6 months or so it would take for them to realise you're a lazy freeloader and then go through the process of firing you (sacking people in the UK and the rest of Europe is a long-drawn out process: employees have rights). Second, they'd have to install a load of kit in your house which would take time and you'd also have little or no "induction" into the company, your boss, the goals and culture.
So on the occasions where I have worked for places that do have home working: either as perk for trusted employees or as a cost-saving measure for the one that seriously messed up its estate management, it's not something you go "demanding" and definitely not from the start - or "get-go" in your language.
Finally, home working has many, many disadvantages. Apart from being isolated, you become an invisible part of the team - and therefore disposable. You never interact with your work-mates and never get to hear "grapevine" stuff, like where the promotion opportunities are. Neither does your boss "see" you, so you never bond and can easily get passed over for pay rises or interesting projects. Some people also find they instead of working, they spend all day with their face in the fridge and pile on the pounds.
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For a start, there's no guarantee you wouldn't just goof around for the 6 months or so it would take for them to realise you're a lazy freeloader and then go through the process of firing you
Of course there is - daily Skype meetings. Have an agile board of work on TFS or something and check what people are doing on a daily basis. I've seen this work in practice. People goofing off will be noticed *very* quickly.
sacking people in the UK and the rest of Europe is a long-drawn out process: employees have ri
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Working from home is no panacea (Score:2)
I see it as a win-win; you're able to work in the home environment you are most productive in, and you can use the time you would've been commuting to work a bit longer for the employer
I've worked from home in years gone by. Speaking for myself I'm definitely NOT most productive working from home. Far too easily distracted. I also know several other people who have worked from home and had the same experience. Furthermore people generally do not use the commute time to squeeze in another hour of work in general. Some people can work effectively from home. I would say most are more effective in an office.
Not only that, but you're not adding to road congestion either.
True, though most companies really don't care about that much if at all. They r
Look hard and long (Score:5, Informative)
I managed to do it, but it took almost a year of looking, even in a job market supposedly favorable to programmers.
My strategy was to basically scour the job boards, looking for remote jobs, and apply when it looked like a good fit. Some boards I found helpful for remote, non-contract work:
Job sites which don't have a specific category for "remote" tended to produce a lot of noise, because searching on "remote" would get hits for things like "remote work not allowed".
Two other things which seemed very helpful in landing a job:
Easy (Score:2)
Check your spam folder
There are tons of mails in there containing the secret of getting rich by working from home.
I can give you such a job myself, just send me your résumé and transfer the required hiring fee of 249.50$ to the following account ....
Work at Mozilla (Score:2)
https://careers.mozilla.org/ [mozilla.org]
HTH, HAND. :-)
Emigrate (Score:2)
I'm a software developer in the UK, and I've found that it's very rare (maybe 5% of the time) to find an employer that will even consider any working from home
I have not yet had an interview where the employer would not allow any working from home. "Full time" home work (i.e. show up once a week for the meeting) type offers are rare, yes. But I can't remember a single interview where 1 day a week would not be offered.
Perhaps I don't scout as many job interviews as you do, as I am happy with my current job (which doesn't put a limit on my telecommuting, so it ends up with 2-3 days a week, which I find a nice balance). So perhaps I just pick my interviews more care
Work in the US (Score:2)
I work for a leading enterprise in the US.
Among our ~50,000 US/Can employees, the leading office location is "remote". More of our employees work remote than at our largest fixed point facility.
Not making a guess at this; it's lately been my job to research it.
My wife also works at a US enterprise, from home, all day, every day. She's a project manager working with teams worldwide. She has a VERY long work day, due to time zone math, but is very productive, and has flexibility through the day to tend to wha
You don't find these (Score:2)
- A guy works in his company
- He builds lots of trust with his manager, boss, whatever
- (optional) he wants to move to another place for whatever personal reasons
- He asks if remote work is possible
- If enough trust was built, it happens. - If he dedicates a room to it, without distractions, he has a proper internet connexion (good enough for reliable teleconferencing), it works.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you make your own job. You become an independent consultant. Sell yourself and build clients.
As a point of reference, my accountant said that if you can make it for 18 months and start producing a solid income stream, you're likely to keep it going for as long as you like (major market force shifts notwithstading). I'm in year 12, fwiw, and it's got it's ups and downs, but it would take a *lot* to trade it for a 9-5 office job again.
Myths (Score:2)
Many of the items you mention as "win-wins" are myths.
While it is true for some, most people are not more productive at home. There are more distractions. There are fewer opportunities to engage with coworkers, and the management resources are further away. (yes, management is supposed to be a resource to help you get things done more efficiently. If that's not the case, then someone is doing something wrong)
Most workers don't consider the commute time to be "company time" so when they move away from that c
I prefer working from home.. (Score:2)
I also work 3rd shift, as a network operator for a rather large ISP (3rd shift being something of a requirement, since folks don't like it when we do disruptive work during waking hours. Can't imagine why....)
So for me, the distractions are pretty minimal. Everyone else is asleep when I'm working, and other than my cat occasionally deciding she wants to play when I have six figures of customers down at the moment, there's no problem. When I'm in the office, the distractions are non stop.
Now, I'm a loner typ
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have enough contacts to start free-lancing/troubleshooting/consulting? If you can swing it financially (and it sound like you can), you might find it's a better option in the long run. It might take 12-24 months before you're pulling even a basic salary, but it can be both rewarding and liberating.
Linux? (Score:2)
If so just subscribe to some mailing lists (I could name some but you give very little useful information when you say "software developer") - those sort of jobs come up all the time (weekly). Generally you're dealing with the people you'll be working with - not there HR department or some agency so the usual channels won't get you many leads.
Recently there have been a few jobs in the EU every week, which has been a consistent pattern for the last twenty years (UNIX and Linux).
Wish I could offer more advice. (Score:2)
I kinda stumbled into telecommuting with my company about 6 years ago.
We'd just replaced our phone system and the new one allowed for remote extensions.
It started out as a day or two a week and converted into full time work-from-home with only occasional trips to the main office.
Mostly because I proved to my employer that I could be trusted to work responsibly from home.
And, even though I've only got a short commute to work (24 miles round trip), the amount of money I've saved in gas (about $1000 a year) an
simple answer: open a facebook account (Score:2)
you think I kid. Try it. I did a throwaway one a while back just to see what'd happen, in less than a day I'd had offers of free money from Nigerian princes, claims that people were making $7,000 a month from their kitchen table, and even marriage proposals from lonely Russian brides.
Now, out of all that spam, if just ONE of those work-from-home things was genuine, out of all the THOUSANDS that're floating around just on Facebook, I'd've been set.
If you decide to try it and get lucky, please let the rest of
Easy (Score:2)
Stop looking for a "job" and start looking for contracts.
It has its pros and cons... (Score:3)
I've been working from home as a salaried employee for the past five and a half years. Prior to that, I worked in an office and commuted for seven years. There are pros and cons to both.
Office: The daily commute, which sucked up two to three hours of my life every day. It was definitely the worst part of my day.
Home: No commute. I spend $20 on gas every two months for short jaunts to the store, etc. The mileage on my car is ridiculously low given its age. I tend to feel less irritable, though that may have other causes.
Office: Fixed work schedule. I consider this a pro.
Home: No fixed work schedule unless you're disciplined enough to establish one (I now am). Without discipline, there is a horrible tendency to either work way too much or work not nearly enough.
Office: Rigidly separates personal life from work life (pro).
Home: No such separation exists unless you are disciplined enough to establish one (I now am). Still, days can sometimes blur together.
Office: With open-floor offices (like the one I worked in), there was always some loud conversation or other disturbance going on nearby that ruined my ability to concentrate. People walked up to me at my desk every day to ask me questions rather than send an email. Lots of unproductive meetings.
Home: Just as many distractions, but different ones (dog barking, people coming to the door, etc). However, I evolved a schedule that shifts the majority of my work time into the night/early morning hours when everything is comparatively quiet. I have far more frequent and more lengthy periods of "zoned" concentration at home than I ever did at an office A secondary benefit here is that I can plan my work around my day rather than the other way around. If I want to take five hours off in the afternoon to go drink a couple of ciders on my patio in the sun, I can do that. Or watch a football game on TV, etc. As long as I put in my eight hours, it's all good. With regard to meetings, there really aren't any other than Skype chat. I have to drive into town once every two or three months for a company meeting, typically only if we have to meet new clients face to face.
Office: Clothing is mandatory.
Re: (Score:2)
Home work can indeed be = awesome.
A few things though.
I've seen people completely fail at this task. This seems to fall into two categories.
1) People with unhelpful spouses, which are home a lot. Constant interruptions, not understanding that home does NOT mean that you are actually HOME! Thinking that if something is urgent, it is OK to bug / talk to / etc. Heck, sometimes the worker finds this interaction enjoyable, making it harder to say no. Which can easily lead to failure.
2) Some people are quite
Re: (Score:2)
On the other side of the coin, I've found that I hate working from home in the summer, and enjoy it in the winter. The winter, with -40C -- well, the reasons are obvious. The summer? Well, there's a lot to see on the way to work, it's pleasant and nice to get out.
I haven't worked from home, but I'm sure my opinion of it would be based on the season. Winter snow and ice, great. Summer, with no central AC, not so great.
Re:In short? (Score:5, Interesting)
You've been modded troll, but this is pretty much accurate.
It's also not a win/win, and here's why:
1) Most people are not most productive at home. In fact, most people are significantly less productive at home due to many more distractions around them.
2) Commuting (at least relatively short commutes) has been shown to be a good way of clearing your brain, and getting it into or out of work mode. It doesn't really hurt productivity unless you're doing it for hours.
3) Skype does not make communication with coworkers a snap. It imparts a major cognitive overhead.
4) Communication does not just come down to a few meetings a week that could (with more effort) be done via Skype. By working at home you remove any chance of corridor conversations, which typically, are by far the most productive communication in an office.
Basically, working at home is not in any way good for the company, and it's usually not good for the employee at all, so most companies won't let you do it.
Re:In short? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In short? (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to live 90+ minutes away from a previous job... I worked from home 3 days each week, then came in for two. On the days I drove, yeah it meant 3 hours of driving... but plus side, most of that drive was by myself while whizzing through the twisty roads of the Oregon Coastal Range, and having the time to myself with a stack of good music and *nobody* impinging on that time due to crap cell coverage? That was kind of nice.
Mind you, I had no kids at the house and I lived on the beach at the time, so working from home was a snap - no distractions at all. I made up for the hallway conversations with IM and impromptu huddles over the phone. The days I drove in were packed with meetings (on top of the usual phone/webex conversations), so I got approximately no keyboard time those days. I'd call it a wash though, but mostly because my employer at the time was over-siloed and under-efficient; their glassdoor ratings were and are rightfully in the toilet if that helps.
But, that aside, working from home has the following benefits:
* time alone: you can set a huge block of time aside, shut the world out, and get shit done.
* boss says you gotta work late? No problem, just a sec': " Hey babe? I gotta spend a bit more time on this today; I'll just eat in here until it's done..."
* if you live in a scenic area, just step outside and work in an awesome setting.
* as long as the webcams don't see it, put whatever the hell you want up on your walls.
* pajamas! Well, eventually you get sick of doing that and dress for work anyway, but I did kind of enjoy wearing a dress shirt over cargo shorts.
It has the following drawbacks:
* office politics: when you're remote, you don't overhear those little snatches of conversation, see expressions, and get those subtle signals that would indicate something you may want to act on, so you find yourself blindsided - often.
* culture: you often find that you slowly slip out of the company's culture, which leaves you at a disadvantage as time passes. It also means that you miss out on connecting with co-workers at any meaningful level beyond giving and getting information.
* visibility: being gone leaves you lower on the priority list for promotions, advancements, special projects, etc. because 'Out of sight, out of mind'.
* quick gathering of critical information: at work, you can see if someone's there, get what you need if they're not über busy, then get back at it. Remotely, you have to wait for a response by email, IM, whatever... and they will ignore you just as much as you tend to ignore them.
* power went out at home? Better go into the office anyway. There were a couple of times when the little coastal town I lived in lost power (once at a very inconvenient time - a Saturday evening that we had a go-live scheduled) and had to haul ass to the nearest town with both power and usable wifi (and in that one case all the way into the office.) Happens more often than you think, because apparently residential power has a lower priority (and way less redundancy) than commercial, eh?
* self-discipline: sometimes, it's a royal bitch to make yourself focus on work when all you really want to do is kick over the the gaming rig and fart around a bit online... and at home, who's gonna know? It takes a special personality trait to get started on time and stick to it (and more importantly, know when to call it a day).
All said, there's a lot of factors I left out, and it all depends on you, your employer, and what you do for a living.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is why I take the train. (Not the original poster)
Re:In short? (Score:4)
Re: (Score:2)
How about............get a different job that is closer to home?
You're either a self-made billionaire working on his yacht in the Med or a part time McDonalds burger flipper sitting in his mother's basement.
It's a tough choice.
Re:In short? (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell that to:
Automattic [automattic.com]
Mozilla [mozilla.org]
GitHub [github.com]
Basecamp (formerly 37signals) [37signals.com] (who even wrote a book about how great remote working can be) [37signals.com]
along with a myriad [zdnet.com] of [scottberkun.com] other [google.com] companies who work either entirely remotely, or have very liberal policies around remote working.
Most, if not all of whom, can be considered to be quite successful within their field.
Re: (Score:2)
2) Commuting (at least relatively short commutes) has been shown to be a good way of clearing your brain, and getting it into or out of work mode. It doesn't really hurt productivity unless you're doing it for hours.
Yeah, maybe a short walk or something (10-15 mins). Not over an hour each way on a crowded train or sitting in a series of traffic jams.
Re:In short? (Score:4, Interesting)
You've been modded troll, but this is pretty much accurate.
It's also not a win/win, and here's why: 1) Most people are not most productive at home. In fact, most people are significantly less productive at home due to many more distractions around them. 2) Commuting (at least relatively short commutes) has been shown to be a good way of clearing your brain, and getting it into or out of work mode. It doesn't really hurt productivity unless you're doing it for hours. 3) Skype does not make communication with coworkers a snap. It imparts a major cognitive overhead. 4) Communication does not just come down to a few meetings a week that could (with more effort) be done via Skype. By working at home you remove any chance of corridor conversations, which typically, are by far the most productive communication in an office.
Basically, working at home is not in any way good for the company, and it's usually not good for the employee at all, so most companies won't let you do it.
All sort of true.
First, a bit of background on my context. I'm a software engineer for Google, and I work from home full-time. This is not a common situation in Google, which has an institutional belief in the value of co-located teams in open-plan offices as a way to facilitate communication. Google engineering methodologies are heavy on communication and light on process and documentation. They rely heavily on face to face communication, be it over cubicle walls, in hallways, at the cafes, etc.
On its face, this appears to just about the worst possible organization in which to work remotely. But I've been doing it for over a year now, and it's working just fine -- but only because my co-workers and I make it work. It's challenging, but it absolutely can be done.
Regarding your points:
1) Productivity at home. This depends heavily on the individual. I'm motivated and I like what I do, so even with the distractions at home I'm highly productive. If anything, my challenge is to avoid working too much. That's not the same for everyone, so YMMV.
2) Commuting. Commuting sucks. Even if it's a short commute. Some people do seem to like it, though, as a way of separating home and work life. My home and work lives blend, with more of a dynamic balance between them rather than sharp separation. Personally, I prefer that, but I know not everyone does.
3) Video conferencing is not a panacea, but it can really help. I have a Chromebox on my home office desk and another in my team's "bullpen" area, which are both set to an always-on video conference, so I have a virtual presence in the team area. It's not quite the same as being there, but I can hear and participate in random conversations that happen amongst the rest of my team, at least when they're at their desks. And of course, I attend all of my meetings the same way. It's kind of funny for my co-workers who see my face on the VC unit in the bullpen as they get up to walk to the meeting room, then see me "already arrived" when they get there. Because of course for me "traveling" from the bullpen to the meeting room is instantaneous.
4) Communication is challenging. In my case it helps that Google runs on e-mail, and much communication happens that way. I do find myself out of the loop occasionally, but my colleagues are generally pretty good about letting me know stuff, and sometimes even deliberately deciding to move a conversation to e-mail in order to make sure I'm involved. The inclusive culture is a big help, even at the same time as the co-located culture creates challenges.
The bottom line, to me, is that there are pros and cons, and those pros and cons are different for different employees and different companies. In my personal case, I think I'm probably 95% as effective working from home as I would be in the office, and that only by putting in a little extra time. For me, that's great, though. I'm perfectly happy to spend the time I would have wasted on commutin
Re:In short? (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, working at home is not in any way good for the company, and it's usually not good for the employee at all, so most companies won't let you do it.
Modded to 5 completely without citation and from what I assume is mostly conjecture. Nice job.
1) Most people are not most productive at home. In fact, most people are significantly less productive at home due to many more distractions around them.
I have seen this first hand. IBM came into our company, hired all of us and then sent everyone home to telecommute. About 1/3 of the people could not cope and got fired; Your statement seems to imply that people are inherently incapable of working remotely, which is complete crap. It's a learned behaviour. The other 2/3 of my colleagues and I went on to have lengthy productive tenures at IBM (without seeing an office or each other for up to 6-10 years at a time).
2) Commuting (at least relatively short commutes) has been shown to be a good way of clearing your brain, and getting it into or out of work mode. It doesn't really hurt productivity unless you're doing it for hours.
Citation please? I'll settle for an anecdote.
While this may be a way of "clearing your brain", "getting into the zone", or whatever you call it: It's a learned routine that tells your brain "it's time for work". You do this when working remotely as well. You get a routine in place that get's your mind ready for work (even when you work at home, it's very important).
3) Skype does not make communication with coworkers a snap. It imparts a major cognitive overhead.
Cognitive overhead? If operating Skype is too difficult or a cognitive overhead for you, then yes you will need to remain on-site to flip the burgers and operate the fryer.
While I personally don't like Skype I feel that a telephone call is just as effective as an in person meeting (except I can't punch someone in the face... I'll let you decide if that's a positive or negative).
4) Communication does not just come down to a few meetings a week that could (with more effort) be done via Skype. By working at home you remove any chance of corridor conversations, which typically, are by far the most productive communication in an office.
Again I'm going to have to ask for a study that says "corridor conversations" are more productive.
How many of you attend 15 minute meetings that regularly sprawl into an hour?
"Corridor conversations" happen all the time when you work remote: Believe it or not working remotely I've been able to establish close personal relationships with people I've never met in person, yet talk to on a daily basis (just shoot the shit for a couple minutes before or after a meeting).
The fact is trucking people and resources to a central point for a few hours a day only to then have a mass exodus in the evening is not sustainable. There are more drivers getting on the roads than getting off. We can't build lanes in big cities fast enough. People are going to have to go home.
I know that in my field (Software/Systems Engineering) people aren't all that social in the first place (everyone has their headphones on all day). Nothing I do requires me, my peers or our management to be located in any specific place. All of the tools required to do my job fit in a backpack and can be easily afforded by me if required.
I've been on-site the last 5 years (after a 12 year stretch remotely) and the co-workers I talk to are fairly miserable having to commute and then sit around in a sterile office environment. I see so many people that think because they show up to warm a chair everyday yet fail to produce anything meaningful they can hold a job (and they're mostly correct). When you telecommute the employer usually has strict expectations you need to meet (it's sink or swim).
The only people I know that really push for the 'on site' mentality in my field
Re:In short? (Score:4, Insightful)
So I guess I agree.. if your employees need constant supervision then you need them in eye's reach.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed about the professionalism. Eventually your figures will speak for themselves and you'll lose the position to someone who can perform even one and a half times as well as the luke-warm corpse. Working from home does provide opportunities to flex hours, but those hours should still be made up, and the projects still completed.
Given the popularity of the propensity away from this standard, employers are generally not willing to give just anyone a chance. It's their numbers that you impact as well. Basic
A driver's license can cost thousands (Score:3)
How is that feasible when it reportedly costs $6,000 for a driver's license? Some jurisdictions reportedly require 120 hours of logged supervised driving on a learner's permit before they will issue a license (source [mamamia.com.au]), and not everybody has parents who both drive and are willing to sit in the car that long. At $50 per hour for a professional instructor, it starts to add up.
Re: (Score:3)
How is that feasible when it reportedly costs $6,000 for a driver's license? Some jurisdictions reportedly require 120 hours of logged supervised driving on a learner's permit before they will issue a license (source [mamamia.com.au]), and not everybody has parents who both drive and are willing to sit in the car that long. At $50 per hour for a professional instructor, it starts to add up.
Thank God. In America anyone who can avoid crashing into things during their test can get a license. It's stupid easy, with the emphasis on stupid.
On the other hand... (Score:2)
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the things I've run into dealing with groups in India might be cultural, but it certainly can get in the way. Everyone has a job, it's strictly defined, and rarely does anyone do something that is not explicitly in their job, especially if it's explicitly in someone else's job. When it's in nobody's job, a manager can get it added to someone's job, but that seems to take a lot of discussion over who is the most appropriate person to do it, which can cause further delays. In one frustrating case, simply disabling a line in snmpd.conf to stop "public" from being an accepted community string took days to figure out whose job it was, even though several people had sudo access and could have made and documented the change.
Re: Become a contractor (Score:2)
How does one "find an agent"?