Ask Slashdot: Are There Any Open and Affordable IPCams? 134
New submitter criticalmess writes: I'm about to give up on any decent hardware to be found to roll my own web-based camera setup around the house and office — and thought that the nerds and experts at /. would be my last resource I could pull out. Having bought multiple IPCamera (DLink, Abus, Axis, Foscam, TP-Link, ...) and always getting the 'requires DirectX' treatment, I'm wondering if there are any open and affordable IPCams out there? I've been looking at BlueCherry and their kickstarter campaign to create a complete opensource hardware solution, I've been looking at Zavio as they seem to offer the streams in an open enough format while not breaking the bank on the hardware. Anything else I should be looking at? I can't for the love of it understand why most of these hardware companies require you to run DirectX — anybody care to enlighten the crowd? Should be simple enough really: hardware captures images, a small embedded webserver transforms this into an RTSP stream or HTTP stream, maybe on h264 or similar — done.
Panasonic (Score:5, Funny)
Raspberry Pi (Score:5, Informative)
"Build a Raspberry Pi Webcam Server in Minutes"
http://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-webcam-server/
Re: (Score:1)
The odroid C1 is slightly faster, slightly cheaper, and slightly better hardware than than the rpi2. If you require rpi community support, well, stick with rpis. Otherwise, get the odroid c1.
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Re: (Score:2)
Another enclosure that should be able to contain a Raspberry Pi is: http://www.clasohlson.com/se/%... [clasohlson.com]
DirectX? (Score:2, Interesting)
Do you mean ActiveX?
Re: (Score:3)
Whatever - the problem is that there's a Microsoft dependency that shouldn't be there.
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Hikvision (Score:4, Informative)
Hikvision.. Very cheap on alibaba.
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hardware captures images, a small embedded webserver transforms this into an RTSP stream or HTTP stream, maybe on h264 or similar — done.
That's exactly what the Hikvision cams do.... simple to use VLC with them.... even make yourself a local HTML page with a thumbnail of all the cams, and see them all at once in the same window with VLC plugin for Firefox.
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I'm assuming that this is just a few cameras for a home or small office, though. If it's anything more than that you really should have it done professionally. There's a lot of ways to improperly install a CCTV system.
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Agreed - HikVision cameras are telnet enabled, and provide various streaming formats.
To boot, they are cheap too.
ONVIF (Score:5, Informative)
ONVIF is the standard for IP Camera security systems, it handles everything from pan/tilt, video streams, motion detection, removing fish-eye etc.
The trouble with many of these cheap Chinese cameras (Hikvision, Foscam, etc.) is they claim to support ONVIF but are not certified and DO NOT WORK with ONVIF recorders as a result. Sometimes its just one or two features, on mine its pan-tilt, on the first one I bought and binned, it was the HD stream wouldn't connect when the preview stream was running! Making it completelt useless.
So they work with their own (often crappy) interface but try to use them with a big autorecorder box like a Synology raid and they don't work properly.
IMHO, best one I have is a Samsung 95% wide angle PT camera shallow dome camera, waterproof, anti-fogging. The hardware is what makes it great, the software is just the ONVIF standard stuff.
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Vivotek worked quite well for us in testing and appeared to do fine with streaming, did not get a chance to test out motion detection. Primarily we have been using Bosch and Axis, but there have been implementation shortcomings in just about all of the manufacturers including Sony and Axis.
Re:ONVIF (Score:4, Funny)
MOD PARENT UP
MOD AC DOWN
Do the Hokey Cokey and turn around.
DirectX? Do you mean ActiveX? (Score:5, Informative)
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IP cams' web interfaces are one of the few places, though, where it's nearly ubiquitious.
I'd say it has more to do with junk Chinese electronics compaies all buying the same core tech package and minimally changing it to suit their branding.
What's truly obnoxious are the perfectly usable cameras which haven't upgraded their firmware to ditch activex for javascript.
Re:DirectX? Do you mean ActiveX? (Score:5, Informative)
I was about to point out that I access access several Axis IP cameras over RTSP via VLC... From VLC I then stream it to wherever else it might need to be in the building.
Re: DirectX? Do you mean ActiveX? (Score:2)
Can confirm foscom cameras work perfectly fine in VLC. No web interface needed. My only gripe is the viewing angle on them is terrible, but that can be fixed with a cheap lense replacement.
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Not all of them.
Much to my surprise the Foscam FI9821P that I recently purchased requires a plugin of some kind so it only works on Windows and Macs. You can't even log into it for configuration without the plugin. I managed to work around it with an Android app but it's not what I would prefer.
The previous model (FI9821W V2) required no plugin and worked fine without one.
Not sure where my next purchase will come from but it certainly won't be a Foscam unless they change things.
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I upgraded the firmware on a Foscam camera and after rebooting the thing it refused to let me in because a plugin was missing. Thanks, Foscam... I'll never buy Foscam again. Plenty of others on the Foscam forum complaining about this, and Foscam only gives responses that indicate they're not going to change it.
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zoneminder fucking SUCKS.
just get a $200 H.264 DVR + cameras kit.
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It's been many years since I've used Zoneminder, but even then it was better than almost all of the $200 DVR/Camera kits that I've seen.
My sister got one of those kits at Costco and it was a pain to configure, and very limited on it's options/capabilities.
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what are you talking about? These $200 kits are plug and play. They're configured to record 24/7 even. You just need to plug the cameras in, and you're done.
Zoneminder needs a beefy PC for more than a few cameras. It's extremely inefficient.
Ubiquiti's AirVision software was based on that, and people were known to run 8-core xeons to manage 10-20 cameras. They rolled their own solution and now you can handle 10x as many cameras with the same hardware.
A bit heavy on resources (Score:1)
Zoneminder brings in a lot more than just itself. It's heavy enough that one can rule out using it on most embedded devices and lower-end PCs.
On the other hand, if you have something that can keep up with all the camera threads, it's worth a try.
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Really?
Ran 38 Axis cameras on a 4 core pizza box for over 6 years.
Each motion detection zone was almost infinitely adjustable, multiple include/exclude/preclude zones configurable on every camera. Not just rectangular zones either, multi point polygons easily configured.
REALLY curious about what you found for under $2000 that can do that because some places I support don't have the brains to allow a Linux system in.
LeopardImaging (Score:2)
I've had great luck with the modules from Leopard Imaging. They have a REST interface for configuration and stills. RTSP works perfectly with clients like VLC. Nice range of lenses. Designed to be embedded. Sweet.
DirectX is on the monitor end (Score:5, Informative)
While I can't speak for "most", the limited experience I have had with IP cameras is that the stream coming off many of them is a bone-standard MJPEG stream. That is simply a stream of JPEG images, and any app that can interpret them should be fine. Microsoft has actually published a very small demo program, based on dotNet 4, that displays the output from a webcam.
Rosewill's webcam, by the way, uses a Java applet normally to show what's coming off the camera. I don't believe they use DirectX, or ActiveX, as the image output shows up fine on Firefox.
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That's what the TrendNet I bought many years ago does.
Nowadays cams don't do that anymore. They've moved on to H.264 streams.
Axis supports RTSP streams... (Score:1)
I have an Axis M1054, and it works fine with VLC to view rtsp:///axis-media/media.3gp
Re:I Use VLC to access all my security cams (Score:4, Insightful)
I Use VLC to access all my ONVIF-compliant security cams. Mostly Hikvision, but also many others. The only time I need ActiveX is if I am in the config, and want to play with the zones for motion detection. I do that from a VM or from the spouse's laptop. After initial setup, I never need it again.
I think the original question was poorly worded. Everyone is picking up on the s/DirectX/ActiveX/ part, and then most are giving a big WTF because most cams do (or can be configured to) output a VLC usable stream (MJPEG, h.263, etc). Maybe he really did have no clue about that, but if he used all those cams, he should be well aware that (almost) all of those will spit out a standard stream just fine.
I think you're comment hints at what he's really asking for - an "OPEN" camera that doesn't require ActiveX at all, not even for setup/config. I think that's where it gets tough. I don't know why more of them aren't more open and hackable, though I know the argument will probably be "support", but the cheap ones get returned frequently enough as it is. Edging towards the slightly more expensive side (ex. Axis), it's more stable and has easily configured streams and pulls and pushes it can do, but I'm guessing they'll be keeping as much of that closed as they can cause that's its real selling point. A cheaper, truly open, and hackable version of an Axis would be pretty awesome IMO.
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I almost bought a webcam that could only be accessed via some cloud service provided by the manufacturer; it was *not* possible to access any streams locally. Useful for the clueless that just want to check up on the cat via the smart phone while doing some shopping, but not if you want to use it for security purposes... I.e. another gotcha to look out for when shopping for these things.
I Want One Too! (Score:3, Interesting)
I've got a real beef with the IP camera industry. High cost, large size, relatively low resolution, and the poor interface issues that the OP describes. A 5MP Axis or Hikvission IIP camera will set you back $300 or more and higher resolution will trip the $1,000 mark in a hurry. For a home security camera system that can read a license plate on the street you'd have to spend thousands, probably tens of thousands.
Yet a Samsung Galaxy has a tiny and great 16MP camera, computer, on board storage, WiFi, cellular connectivity, environmental sensors, and LOTS more in a tiny package for about the same price as the previously mentioned 5MP camera..The only thing they lack is a PoE port and IP66 case.
There just doesn't seem to be a valid reason for the lack of low cost high quality IP cameras.
Re: I Want One Too! (Score:1)
Volume.
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I don't think volume explains it completely. The most expensive components in an IP camera (camera, network, controller) are mass produced in incredible quantities already, whether it's for smartphones or dashcams or Gopros or point and shoot cameras, and stuff like smartphones with far more technology included (super hi res touchscreen, LTE modem, battery, flash, vastly more complex software) are cheaper than all but the junkiest 720p IP cameras.
*Components* isn't the reason, the components are dirt cheap
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Nightvision?
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+1
I have a Synology NAS (which is good for many other reasons than cams) and have a D-Link DCS-2132L hooked up to it.
The built-in web interface to the camera did not require any ActiveX, though perhaps it did need a Quicktime plugin on my mac to display H.264. Supports RTP / RTSP/ RTCP but I haven't tried it because why would I? I hate to sound like a Synology who*e, but it's worked great for me out of the box. I'm watching my cat sleep on my iPhone as I type this.
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I hope your cat is not heavy and cracks your iPhone - anyway, another upvote for Synology. I am continually impressed with the various packages that come with their NAS.
Have you dug into the cameras a bit? (Score:5, Informative)
Firstly I assume you mean ActiveX and that your gripe is the streaming system used by the cameras which requires plugins to use a browser. Have you dug into the operation of any of the cameras? Some of them may provide other interfaces not documented or immediately obvious from their default web interface. For example: My cheapo Chinese Foscam PTZ camera requires ActiveX on the web interface, but the video stream is available via http://w.x.y.z/videostream.cgi... [x.y.z] and that spits out a rolling JPEG (I think, I can't remember) stream which does not require any browser plugins.
I came across this while setting up my next suggestion: Zoneminder.
If you have a server located somewhere then I suggest you centralise the security camera management via some program like Zoneminder. This will allow you to capture data from multiple cameras with multiple interfaces and multiple vendors into one common platform. This common platform can perform things like motion detection, recording, and can even control a wide range of model's PTZ functions.
Basically an opensource solution presenting a front end to your closed source cameras.
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I have (and still use) several Foscam standard-def cameras, but I've had a lot of trouble with HD (720p) models from Foscam and others. Can't find any which don't require ActiveX - not only for streaming, but for SETUP.
I can't give them my WiFi password without being able to run their proprietary plugin, necessarily on a Windows machine, to access the web interface. And even when I use a Windows machine and go through the process, I to end up with repeated failures.
I'm sure it must be working for someone
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Basically an opensource solution presenting a front end to your closed source cameras.
I second this but I couldn't get Zoneminder to work with my two Foscam cameras of different models. I let the camera upload .mkv video snippets along with trigger photos and do the rest on a Linux box running mplayer for quick perusal of the files, vlc to convert them to .mp4, and ffmpeg to slice them into sets of jpegs for the triggered events. You can then do anything you want with them. Foscam has an open API to do certain things with the camera but I haven't played with it yet.
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Foscam have some peculiar things that need to be played with in order to get them working. Have you had a look at the wiki? They have several wiki pages for different models of Foscam cameras http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki... [zoneminder.com]
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Same kind of eBay special camera here - $130 vs. $650 for a US-branded PoE HD/IR camera. Mostly good. I get at mine with:
mplayer rtsp://camera.example.com:554/mpeg4
I wanted to run it on Zoneminder, but my zm keeps crashing. It appears to be problems with the pthreads implementation. I sent up patches for a (different) build bug, and the team took that right away - so good team, but there's hard fixes that need somebody to do them to be useful.
I saw a $50 commercial package that runs on linux that I'll p
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I recently bought a Foscam HD camera (the FI9821W V2), and basic setup works okay using their web interface. For actually seeing images, in addition to the useless (for me) ActiveX and Mac plugins, it provides an RTSP stream (easily playable in VLC) and MJPEG stream (seems a bit buggy).
More importantly, Foscam provides an SDK ( http://foscam.us/forum/new-sdk-cgi-application-t13426.html [foscam.us] ) that makes it possible to roll your own interface. For example (shameless self-promotion):
https://github.com/ccoff/Fosc [github.com]
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Zoneminder is a complete POS. Sorry, that's what it is. Only an open source zealot willing to endure awful crap "for the cause" could love it.
If you're like me you'll find plenty of references to "Use Zoneminder, it's the open source solution for that", without any hint of how crappy it is. You'll even get the impression that it might be good... kind of like replacing wireless router firmware with DD-WRT, which is awesome.
Maybe, if all you want is event-specific recording, it'd be okay. I wanted continuou
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To expand, maybe it's a problem in that people don't know what a good solution looks like.
I have a wired Swann camera system in the office, with a dedicated DVR unit. The software for it is buggy and remarkably hard to keep working over a tunnel... but functionally (when it's working) it's really good.
Features I consider extremely useful with Swann's system:
- continuous recording, with simple calendar/timeline bar navigation for viewing.
- motion recording done right... events display as highlights on the no
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I've got Foscams (just make sure you're getting the real thing, not one of the infinite number of fakes, so buy direct from Foscam or via their Amazon store) and found that, with the newer models, I didn't actually need external software since the camera itself already does most of what I want (motion-triggered video, ability to mask out zones of non-interest, take hi-res still images when motion is sensed and email them to me, etc). If you really need a lot of extra functionality, consider Xeoma [felenasoft.com] (supporte
Rasberry Pi for an open, flexible solution (Score:4, Informative)
Raspberry Pi 2 model B does hardware based h.264 encoding when used w/ their camera (options exist with/without IR filter). This results in about 3% CPU utilization on a RPi 2 model B. This encoding can then be piped to VLC. Once in VLC, the options are pretty endless.
Here's a real-world command that pipes the camera to VLC which makes it available via HTTP:
raspivid -t 0 -w 1920 -h 1080 -fps 25 -b 2000000 --exposure night -o - | /usr/bin/cvlc -I dummy --live-caching=500 'stream:///dev/stdin' --sout '#standard{access=http{user=youruser,pwd=yourpass},mux=ts,dst=:8080/}' :demux=h264 --sout-keep &
A key advantage of a RPi is the flexibility, versatility, updatability afforded by both the open hardware and the linux operating system.
~$35 for a RPi 2 model B, ~$25 for a camera. MicroUSB power supply/cable ~$10. WiFi ~$10 (or use integrated ethernet).
Zoneway ZW-NC649M-P (Score:2)
cheap
motion reads it from rtsp://192.168.0.80:8554//live0.264
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Any experience with power over CAT5?
No.
I don't know if it does POE. It comes with a wall wart.
Old Android Phone (Score:5, Informative)
I've used a couple of old android phones for this, some old ones from upgrades and old ones friends weren't using - have a look for the app IP Webcam, seems to do exactly what you're after.
Even older phones with ~2MP cameras on the back should be more than enough resolution for this task. The batteries also provide convenient UPS in the event of power cut too.
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IP Webcam is a fantastic free tool, but I found that it can make some Android phones overheat and crash if you leave it running all the time.
Definately worth a try, though!
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IP Webcam is a fantastic free tool, but I found that it can make some Android phones overheat and crash if you leave it running all the time.
Definately worth a try, though!
I use two apps to solve this problem tasker and pushbullet. I have tasker automatically setup so that it will restart the app if the app stops and it will push a notification through pushbullet when motion is detected which will notify me on my real phone
Just look for ONVIF (Score:1)
Most IP cams support OnVif. Basically there are http or rtp url schemes you hit the camera with that tell it what kind of stream to return. Like codec, frame rate, image size, data rate etc. Just find a camera you're interested in, download the manual (if they don't allow that, don't give them money) and look to see if a bunch of url schemes are outlined in there to that effect. Generally if it says it needs some directx or java applet support that's usually for a player app the camera will serve up in its
DirectX/ActiveX not for the camera (Score:2)
Usually a requirement for DirectX or ActiveX is for the viewer software they provide, not the camera itself. Either their application uses DirectX to handle the graphics display, or the standard Web page the camera puts around the stream uses an ActiveX widget to display the stream. Usually if you can get the manual for the camera and take a look at the Web page it generates you can find the URL for the actual video stream and use that in any video software. A little more work will give you how to configure
ActiveX is only for their browser viewers (Score:2)
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Free (Score:1)
I went the free route: used Android phones and "motion" installed on an Ubuntu server.
Skip Axis (Score:1)
Their PoE Cameras are the most unreliable pieces of garbage.
Even if you use SHIELDED twisted pair, they burn out at around 18 months.
Re: (Score:3)
Indeed. Their controller software can do RTSP translation: http://community.ubnt.com/t5/U... [ubnt.com]
Vivotek has worked well for me (Score:1)
I've a number of Vivotek outdoor bullet IP cameras and they work really well for me using Zoneminder on GNU/Linux. I also use direct streams to browsers on multiple platforms. Has RSTP and HTTP. I've had them for years and they have worked rock solid for me all this time. I have some Vivotek IP8332 and IP7330 (discontinued?). The IP8332-C is the same as the IP8332 but with a much better mounting bracket. I don't do windows and similarly had a very hard time finding something, but these did the trick.
Cheap cameras and zoneminder (Score:1)
I've had really good luck with these cheap, roughly $35, 960p dome cameras off of bay. They've got a nice wide viewing angle with the 3.6mm lens. Then I just consume the RTSP streams with zoneminder.
Open setup (Score:2)
I would slightly revise the question- are there any inexpensive IP cameras that don't require a Windows machine and a Chinese translator to set up and get on my Wifi?
Dig deeper (Score:1)
Even though they might have activeX or Java controls embedded on their web interface, most cameras I've used still offer a HTTP or RSTP stream.
Look at the source of the web page in your browser and it will often give you hints to the underlying stream URL. Eg, the cheap standard definition Chinese FOSCAM cameras have something like: /videostream.cgi?rate=11&user=XXXX&pwd=YYYY
I have done similar with Chinese high definition cameras, using an RSTP explorer to find the stream URL. You can then plug t
Re: (Score:2)
So, how do you actually set the camera up when the configuration page requires the use of ActiveX....
Old netbook + webcams (Score:1)
iSpy Connect (Score:2)
I like BlueCherry (Score:4, Informative)
About 4 years ago I came into a business where the security cameras were all older coax models that wired up to capture cards and into a ZoneMinder install. It worked but was cumbersome and I figured it was time to start us getting on IP cameras. We had a new "store" location being built right around the time so I moved everything to IP cameras and ditched ZoneMinder for BlueCherry.
I've never regretted that. BlueCherry is really nice and I see it constantly improving. I don't think I've seen a single new feature introduced in the 4 years I've been using it. Instead they just keep making it better at what it really needs to do. They won't make it limit FPS from a camera. The camera can do that. A timestamp on the image? The camera should do that. Do you want to delete video? Nope. There's no reason for that. The system will eventually cycle it out when the disk is full. They don't work on fluff or things you THINK you need. They work on stability and resource consumption and things that you absolutely need in a video recording system before anything else. I like their approach.
As to cameras I'm not much help. I run about 26 Axis M-1011 or M-1011W (wireless version) cameras one ACTi E33 outdoor bullet camera, and two TRENDNet TV-IP252P dome cameras. I have tried a junk Foscam and HooToo model or two in the past but they were junk and you had to power cycle them randomly to get them back online. A $60 Foscam with PTZ that works MOST of the thing isn't worth anything to me. An Axis M-1011 with no PTZ and smple 640x480 resolution but runs nonstop 365 days a year? That's worth $175 to me. My ACTi E33 has also been reliable for a solid year now and I'm buying more. My TRENDNet TV-IP252P are annoying as hell. They just quit working at random. Their web interface is up, they respond to ICMP pings, but their RTSP feed goes down or borks up bad enough that BlueCherry can't decipher it anymore. I have to powercycle them when I see they're not reading right and I do not like them.
My Axis cameras do go offline sometimes but that's where we power cycle between the grid and generator. We only have a 2 second gap between the two and that seems to catch some cameras in a weird state. Thankfully with them when they go whacky they stop responding to ICMP and HTTP requests to my Nagios install picks up on them being off and I can fix that before it's an issue.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm just getting on board with BlueCherryDVR, and I've made a mention of a couple of things that would be nice to have (all duly noted on their forum);
* Motion detection marking/denoting on continuous video record
* Adjustable brightness/contrast on the client
* Better motion detection algorithm ( the current one is excessively sensitive, even at minimal settings )
I concur too about the installation process. BCDVR was an absolute pleasure compared to the pains I en
Ubiquiti's UniFi Cameras (Score:1)
Not Windows (Score:1)
I've had some great success along these lines string up security or pet monitoring with various Linux flavors and FreeBSD by simply using whatever Logitech webcam I had handy (confirm compatibility from one of the many forums first before you purchase a new one).
As for software, I have no idea what would be capable of interfacing with a video device in Windows without some bloat ware installed, but in *nix environments, use something like the v4l driver module and get yourself a copy of "motion". "Motion"
Have you looked at Elphel? (Score:2)
Elphel [elphel.com] makes open source hardware/software cameras.
Elphel rock !! (Score:2)
they are damn near perfect and the more people that actually buy them the better !
Axis saved the day (9 years user) (Score:1)
directx (Score:2)
Android (Score:2)
HiSilicon (Score:2)
Most Chinese cameras use a HiSilicon 3518C SoC running Linux 2.6 (or 2.4, I cannot remember).
A year ago a reverse engineered the firmware of one of those cameras (it was not easy to persuade the seller in Alibaba to send it). With that, I built a compiler toolchain for the Hi3518C, re-generated the firmware and flashed it. There is a binary blob for the camera and it's not easy to replace it because it's not a UVC driver (it pre-dates UVC).
The plan was to get rid of the ActiveX and replace it with an HTML5
ZoneMinder & GrandStream (Score:1)
Consider Y-Cam (Score:1)
Not just video stream (Re:DIY - RaspberryPi) (Score:1)
I'll give you 10 more hours and $100 worth more of budget to add recognition of license-plate numbers, if any, as well as detecting (and logging) Bluetooth and WiFi transmitters as they appear and disappear in the vicinity of the camera.
This would let me track cars entering my driveway and people walking by (those with smartphones in their pockets)... How about it?
Re: (Score:2)
Lemon-squeezy.
Ok, I have $200 burning here to pay you such a device. Can you make it installable outside? Under a roof, but still subject to temperature-changes? No? Ok, I'll set it up inside.
Sure. Take a week. But, if it does not work by then, you pay me back $300. Deal?
Oops... I'm afraid, you didn't quite get it. I don't want to listen peer with their transmitters. I just want to log their appeari
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Way too much for an IP CAM. Get a HI3518e based board. These are $7.50
http://detail.1688.com/offer/4... [1688.com]
They run Linux and support RTSP. Plus they have excellent h.264 support.
Google around you can find the SDK.