Ask Slashdot: How Would You Deal With A 'Gaslighting' Colleague? 433
An anonymous reader writes:
What's the best unofficial way to deal with a gaslighting colleague? For those not familiar, I mean "bullies unscheduling things you've scheduled, misplacing files and other items that you are working on and co-workers micro-managing you and being particularly critical of what you do and keeping it under their surveillance. They are watching you too much, implying or blatantly saying that you are doing things wrong when, in fact, you are not...a competitive maneuver, a way of making you look bad so that they look good." I'd add poring over every source-code commit, and then criticizing it even if the criticism is contradictory to what he previously said.
The submission adds that "Raising things through the official channels is out of the question, as is confronting the colleague in question directly as he is considered something of a superstar engineer who has been in the company for decades and has much more influence than any ordinary engineer." So leave your best suggestions in the comments. How would you deal with a gaslighting colleague?
The submission adds that "Raising things through the official channels is out of the question, as is confronting the colleague in question directly as he is considered something of a superstar engineer who has been in the company for decades and has much more influence than any ordinary engineer." So leave your best suggestions in the comments. How would you deal with a gaslighting colleague?
Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
If they've been there for decades then it's considered acceptable behavior and nothing will change. Time to move on.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Informative)
Now that you're aware of being gaslighting, it's absolutely critical for you to take care of your on your mental health and decision making as you plan and execute exit strategy. Establish, nurture, and rely on relationships outside of work; preferably with people you know and trust to give you honest feedback.
To quote a neuroscientist:
"The effects of gaslighting on normal individuals can be extraordinarily unsettling and can contribute to confused behavior and scattered thinking patterns in those who have been subjected to the phenomenon. [....] Could it be that, by sending conflicting signals as with the difference between reality and what [the gaslighter] falsely insists is reality, desynchronization might occur in neural structures that normally work together? Such desynchronization might account for the confused short-term reaction and the depressed long-term reaction to gaslighting behavior."
Source: Barbara Oakley, Evil Genes: Why Rome Fell, Hitler Rose, Enron Failed, and Why My Sister Stole My Mother's Boyfriend [amazon.com]
Re:Leave. (Score:4, Informative)
After you've gone elsewhere, send your manager a webpage detailing gaslighting, Perhaps something like this [thoughtcatalog.com]. The downside is that that page is written by a blogger; not a lawyer or mental health specialist.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not worth it. period. There are better jobs out there.
My previous job I was at was micromanaged severely, which isn't exactly the same thing as Gaslighting, but it screws with your job performance and sanity in similar ways. It was so bad I had to make an app out of Google forms on my phone to literally log everything I do every minute of every day on the job. And then get bitched at because I missed 10-15 minutes or so on the report it generated (or missed logging the ticket in one of the three different ticketing systems and the calendar we had) cause of unexpected things turning up, like climbing a scissor-lift at 3 in the morning on a Sunday at one of our clients cause a UPS three stories up in the ceiling decided to shit the bed and then not get paid for half of it cause I had to wait an hour and a half for the skeleton maintenance crew to actually find it.
The other thing you need to understand is that you come first. Everybody, and I mean Everybody that worked at this place had something that I could only describe as Stockholm Syndrome. Everyone under management hated the way the company was managed and how they were treated but they were real close to their coworkers and nobody wanted to leave because they knew it would screw the rest of the team or the company would go under if they left. We thought we could get management to see the light but got nowhere. This kept me there for almost a year longer than I should of stayed.
I finally got out, and was willing to give them two weeks to transition my duties, but my new employer wanted a reference from my current employer, Which they refused to give positive or negative because it "was their choice to do so". When I called them on it they literally called me and my coworkers into a meeting and wanted me to repeat the question to everybody so that they could 1) divide the coworkers up and turn them against me. and 2) show them what will happen if they tried to leave. As the meeting was talking place my new employer called and would accept me without the reference if I would take a 6 month probationary period, Which I accepted over speakerphone, handed them my office keys and walked out of the meeting and the door. No way I was giving them two weeks either way and let the bosses screw my career over by making shit up about my performance after they pulled that stunt.
I am now working at a place where I am being Paid less (with better benefits that offset the loss however) and working twice as much but I'm not being micromanaged and that's good enough for me. I'm not as stressed out, I've lost weight and I'm not on call 24/7 (although I'm still on the old companies alert system. during Christmas break I would have got called out no less than 10-15 times) so I can sleep at night and actually take vacation time without worrying that all hell was going to break loose when I was away.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked for a small company -exactly- like that. I not just had to log minutes on my phone, but the manager wanted to watch people's screens via some remote app, and if you made a single typo, he would demand you do your work in a conference room or an office, so he can come in and bellow at you more easily. I was doing 100+ hours a week as an IT person, and it wasn't IT work. It was conference bridge after conference bridge where all people did was bicker and try to get their pet project in.
The entire place had complete Stockholme syndrome. In fact, when I told the manager to fire me on the spot if he didn't like something, he went into the passive/aggressive, "nobody has ever spoken to me like that, there will be consequences to pay for that" mode. In a small company with people who were VERY intelligent and knew their stuff, they were all scared as shit of this guy. None of them planned a single weekend outing other than when on vacation, because they likely would be called in to work at anytime.
My doctor told me that I'd be dead by the end of the year if I continued to work there due to the stress alone.
Needless to say, a couple weeks later, an offer of employment came to me from another company. The manager at that place refused my two weeks notice, so I made it an effective immediately notice.
It was a big pay cut. Hurt like hell. The new job's commute blows goats as well. However, I actually look forward to go to work now.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
He says he didn't take my stapler, but I would burn the building down.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
And in the letter of resignation (perhaps a separate one to management, rather than one to your colleagues), document in great detail the actual reason for your departure. It's pretty hard to ignore a complaint that isn't just an idle threat. The gaslighter drove someone out of the company, so management will notice.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless he drove dozens before, and management still didn't care, because he's someone's protege.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
So what? IMO - you never have anything to lose by documenting valid reasons you left a company. I suspect that in quite a few cases, upper management doesn't really do anything about it when they receive letters or exit interview information like this. But eventually, it piles up and *someone* notices. (I used to work at a place like that, where one of the managers had a continuous history of insulting and angering the interns and assistants they hired to work with him. Many years of that went on, with everyone else who worked there long enough gossiping about it and how it would "never change". But then the economy took a nosedive and they had to make cutbacks. Guess who one of the first guys was they let go?)
If you don't already use it, I'd also recommend creating an account over on GlassDoor.com and make sure you post about the issue there. At least that way, you might be helping someone else who is researching the company and considering taking the opening you left behind, or one similar.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
EVERYTHING, even the little things, should be documented, with evidence where possible. Because that's the only possible way to defend yourself.
Carry your phone around in a pocket or something at work. Take pictures. Copy documents.
Re: Leave. (Score:3)
Or the 'gaslighter' is responsible for stagnation of the company. What worked for a decade may no longer be the best approach.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I wouldn't recommend that unless your country has no laws against libel.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't recommend that unless your country has no laws against libel.
Check your local laws of course, but writing something bad about someone in a private setting (i.e. in a non-public letter to a corporate HR department) is almost never grounds for a libel lawsuit, as far as I have ever heard. If that were so, there would be no such thing as customer service surveys, whistleblower laws, "mystery shopper" feedback, etc.
Libel is generally reserved for covering "public" pronouncements, typically in the form of journalistic stories. And even in those rare cases where, for example, a business has sued a private citizen over a bad Yelp review or some other public lambasting, they have pretty much universally lost.
In addition, most corporations have as part of their employment conditions that you can't sue the company or other employees as a result of negative opinions expressed as part of "official" company communications, such as an employee review or exit interview. (Otherwise no one could ever give an employee a bad review!) There are limits of course - if you allege that someone has committed a crime on the job, that obligates your employer to take it to the police, and depending on how that goes you could be opening yourself up to other things if your accusations of criminal activity are found to be negligibly inaccurate. But I assume you're not going there.
Libel law has many twists and turns which shouldn't be underestimated, but don't take it as a blanket reason for why you should never say anything bad about anyone - especially if it is provably true - in a context that is not intended for public consumption.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Informative)
In general, actionable defamation (of which libel and slander are particular examples) only requires that you express untrue, damaging things to someone other than the party you are referring to. There is NO specific requirement that it be public.
And "damage" is used loosely here. Damage could mean damage to their career, or damage to their public reputation, or even just damage to a single friend's opinion of them.
If you wrote untrue, damaging things in a document to your HR department, that could definitely be considered libel, and would likely be actionable. Specific cases vary, but again in general.
Of course, truth is (again in general... most U.S. states) an absolute defense. So if what you wrote is true and you can demonstrate that it is, by a preponderance of evidence, then you're probably safe. But you'd better have that evidence.
In addition, most corporations have as part of their employment conditions that you can't sue the company or other employees as a result of negative opinions expressed as part of "official" company communications, such as an employee review or exit interview.
Again in the U.S., that is simply not true. "Most" corporations do NOT have such a clause in their contract, and there is a very strong push to stop that practice in those states where it is still allowed. Because in some states such clauses are specifically prohibited by law, and the list of those states is growing.
Re: (Score:2)
... any well-ran company will give you an exit interview.
Once, long-ago, I promptly quit because of an abusive coworker. I was somewhat shielded by my immediate supervisor from his depredations but when she quit I was left in the line of fire. I lasted about six more weeks. At my exit interview, the first question out of the interviewer (whom I respected and trusted) was: "You're quitting because of G-----, correct?"
My jaw hit the floor. I didn't realize anyone knew. It turned out damned near the whol
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
While airing your complaints on exit may feel good, it is almost never in your best interest to do so.
If the company cared about this problem, the OP could bring it up now and get it resolved without having to leave. Even if someone does fire the problem guy - who's winning? The OP is already out the door. And, he'll likely put two and two together and figure out the OP was the reason, possibly causing him problems down the road.
A best case scenario is that the company tosses his resignation letter in the garbage without reading it. More likely, one or more of his former colleagues will read it, take offense, and possibly also cause the OP problems in the future.
Re:Leave. (Score:4, Insightful)
No good, because the only way to deal with these types of jerks is for the company to fire both the arsehole causing the problem and the arsehole who hired them. And that's just not going to happen.
Save yourself the aggravation - quit. They'll be cursing bozo out soon enough when things start breaking.
Re:Leave. (Score:5, Insightful)
They'll be cursing bozo out soon enough when things start breaking.
Or maybe things won't start breaking. Maybe things work just fine - especially since the alleged asshole has been there for decades - and an ecosystem that's been in place just got rid of an outsider that didn't fit in.
The world is a rich tapestry. Some organizations thrive with neurotics and sociopaths in key roles - for instance, Steve Jobs was a piece of shit but he was the driving force at Apple. See what happened when they kicked him out for being an asshole.
Barry Bonds was not a positive presence but he sure helped his team win. And there are many other famous cases.
This being said, if someone at work is unpleasant, is making one's life difficult and is well-regarded by senior management, then yes quitting is the best solution if putting up with it is not an option. This is not kindergarten, this is real life.
Super bad idea, keep it verbal (Score:4, Insightful)
And in the letter of resignation (perhaps a separate one to management, rather than one to your colleagues), document in great detail the actual reason for your departure.
DO NOT DO THIS.
Such a letter will come back to haunt you in some way. Either messing with some future job prospects or retaliation of some kind.
Instead, there will be an exit interview, use that time to lay out, calmly and without emotion, the problems you have had. Then it's up to them to react to it or not. If they get combative just give up. But at least they will not have a paper trail to potentially harm you with later. Remember the whole reason you are even telling them is to help THEM, so if they are not receptive why would you push?
Words of discontent and anger can always be made to make you look bad to someone who lacks context, or is provided a different context in which your words are placed.
Re: (Score:3)
Perhaps I should clarify, then.
Write a well-written letter of resignation, detailing the facts and verifiable events that led to your departure, in an informative and non-confrontational way. Express that you're choosing to leave the environment, rather than blaming the company. Avoid specifically naming the culprit, but frame the situation as a product of the environment that idealizes rock-stars at the expense of a healthy collaborative environment.
While you're still in the company, any complaint you make
Re: (Score:2)
Deliver a letter of resignation and leave. Agreed. If the environment is that toxic to begin with the leadership in the company isn't worth serving under.
Politics (Score:3)
It depends. Sometimes people higher up the management chain don't know what's going on. Impressing those people can work. Calling the gaslighter on it can work. Accounting for the time you've had to spend dealing with him and showing how much that has cost the company can work. It's very dependent on the politics of the situation.
Re: (Score:3)
What if the person complaining about being gaslit is actually delusional, paranoid, insecure, and incompetent?
Re: Leave. (Score:3)
From the "Raising things through the official channels is out of the question"... It seems quite possible.
Re: (Score:3)
What if the person complaining about being gaslit is actually delusional, paranoid, insecure, and incompetent?
It's usually the person doing the gaslighting who is delusional, paranoid, insecure, and incompetent. The problem is that most people won't believe anyone could actually do the crap they pull, they must be telling the truth ... nobody would make up stuff like that ...
Leave. Your mental and physical health are more important than misplaced loyalty or a bruised ego.
Re: (Score:3)
True, but in the Age of Trump, gaslighting is seen by awful people as "smart" and a "winning strategy".
We're watching in real time as an entire nation is being gaslighted. Of course, the worst people in the work place are going to adopt the same strategy. Individuals need to insulate themselves as best they can and then fight back like hell.
Yes, GTHO out of there (Score:3, Interesting)
I worked for a company that was doing some MSP work for a client. It started when a co-worker kept asking about a long configuration I did, I sent a reply, and he sent a reply to managers with what I said changed which didn't help me look good. I quietly turned on message signatures via S/MIME, problem solved there.
It really came to a head when I was doing some work on a broken web server. I had some backups saved of config files. I made a modification, it didn't work, went to back out changes... and my
Re:Yes, GTHO out of there (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
If someone is performing poorly, there's no reason to gaslight because the required justification to get rid of him is already available.
This is simple (Score:5, Insightful)
The submission adds that "Raising things through the official channels is out of the question, as is confronting the colleague in question directly
If you're not willing to use official channels and you're not willing to confront the person directly then you need to leave. That's it.
Re:This is simple (Score:4, Insightful)
The submission adds that "Raising things through the official channels is out of the question, as is confronting the colleague in question directly
If you're not willing to use official channels and you're not willing to confront the person directly then you need to leave. That's it.
In fact, the post unintentionally answered its own question:
Raising things through the official channels is out of the question, as is confronting the colleague in question directly as he is considered something of a superstar engineer who has been in the company for decades and has much more influence than any ordinary engineer." So leave [your best suggestions]
Re:This is simple (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're not willing to use official channels and you're not willing to confront the person directly then you need to leave. That's it.
Precisely. However, you really need to question whether the original poster's two above assertions are true, or if they are just conflict avoidant/unable to understand corporate culture. Because if those aren't the case and the two assertions above are true, then the company is a toxic shithole that should be avoided like the plague.
The implication that you can't use official channels - even "skipping levels" up - indicates that the whole place is thoroughly corrupt through to the very very top. Saying that you can't talk to the person directly implies that they are so menacing/terrible/powerful that asserting yourself against a bully could never work.
Unless this is a small family owned business and the offender in question is part of the family, do both of these situations both sound likely?
I'm certainly not trying to impugn the submission poster, but it sounds fishy to me that this company is so rotten that none of the two most obvious approaches are even possible. I've never met a corporate HR department (at least at a company big enough to actually have legal counsel retained) that wasn't ready to jump all over any accusation of misconduct because they're so eager to fend off potential lawsuits. And any company where everyone - including the HR department and the org chain all the way up to the CEO - is totally off limits to a complaint about a malevolent employee is either a nepotism factory or a 100% nest of vipers.
I can't assess better than anyone else the validity of what the submitter says, but it does sound to me like some of the options he/she thinks are off limits might actually be on the table but he/she is too young/shy/lacking in self confidence to pursue. But if those things really are out of the question, then run don't walk out the door.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sadly having to post AC because I've already moderated in this thread, but about ten years ago I worked for a company where this was most definitely the case, and it ran to 400 people. Not huge, but a world-famous name in its field of specialist technical equipment. Our boss (technical director of our division's hardware & software design team) was probably a sociopath and abused his staff daily, but was untouchable because he was the CEO's pet. (The CEO himself was probably a narcissist.) The so-ca
The way to deal with a bully... (Score:2, Interesting)
...is to be a bigger bully. Or call on someone to be a bully for you. So figure it out, beat them back down, or cry out for someone to do it.
Document everything (Score:5, Interesting)
If the person truly feels under threat it's because they are not as good as everyone else thinks.
Write every. single. thing. down.
Re:Document everything (Score:5, Informative)
Write every. single. thing. down.
This.
People might not see paper as the end-all documentation that it used to be but it can be very helpful. This is especially true for something difficult to fake, like many lines of code that were written but "lost", as opposed to something easier to fake, like a date or name on a file.
If policy allows then store electronic files in a way that cannot be easily accessed by even this "rock star". A SVN store where files are checked in could be manipulated by someone with the right access. A USB drive that you copy your files to, and kept in a locked drawer at your desk, is not so easily manipulated. Check your files in twice, once to the company store and again to your own SVN store on your USB drive.
If possible put things in e-mail. If the "gaslighter" tells you something by phone or face to face that you believe will be contradicted later then put it in an e-mail to him and/or another coworker that is on the project, just do an "I'm following up on our earlier conversation" e-mail. If the "rock star" is going so far as to manipulate the e-mail servers then save the e-mails to a disk somewhere and/or print them out.
Re:Document everything (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
a singular bully or several? (Score:2)
Rest of words imply group (Score:3)
The rest of the sentence is "bullies unscheduling things you've scheduled, misplacing files and other items that you are working on and co-workers micro-managing you"
So "co-workers" there would imply more than one person...
One thing I've not seen addressed by others though; given how poorly this is written, is there not perhaps a good reason this person is micromanaged? The other passive aggressive stuff (like moving files) seems wrong, but possibly the unscheduling comes about from this person calling too
Re: Rest of words imply group (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly this.
Which is more likely: the rock star engineer with a proven track record who is well regarded is incompetent, or the new person complaining is incompetent?
What I do (Score:3, Funny)
in these situations is murder them. I'll sneak into their house at night, while they are sleeping, and first I cut out their tongue. Then I stab them in the eyes, then I take two icepicks, and I jam them in their ears. With all of that complete, the next step involves me raping them in the mouth, butt, and/or vagina (if they have one). I leave them lying on the floor, and I steal all their valuables.
I haven't been caught yet.
Re:What I do (Score:4, Funny)
Listen to AC, submitter. He's the HR director at the company I work at.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You need to do a little more than that to make it believable. Break into his car and look for hair strands around the seatbelt and head rest area. Or get into his bathroom and find a brush or comb they use- the trash can in there is a gross but good place to look also. Sprinkle a few strands of hair on the corpses. You could also follow them to a hair cut but make sure you pull the hair apart to make it appear it came out in a struggle and not just cut off. You also want to rig something they use to cause i
works for me (Score:2, Interesting)
beat their ass after work in the parking lot
Re: (Score:2)
Seconded.
So in other words... (Score:3)
Presuming you don't wish to do violence to his person or property... are you okay with marching into his office and beating the shit out of yourself [youtube.com]?
Challenge to him a battle of wits (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You forgot the most important part. Slowly building an immunity to Iocane.
You basically just committed a murder-suicide.
Re: (Score:2)
Develop a backbone. (Score:5, Insightful)
Raise hell with him/her and with management about him/her. Be ANGRY. Say you'll walk.
And then, if you have to, do it.
I speak from experience in my past. You do NOT want to go down the road of trying to "make it better in a non-confrontational way." Do you know what that makes you? A weakling. A loser. Someone who has to tiptoe around. Someone who spends too much time thinking strategically about how to get from mundane point A to mundane point B without experiencing problems.
Your productivity will fall. Your self-esteem will collapse. And you will find that you also enable the behavior, and it gets worse, and then worse again.
You're already a victim, and you're letting yourself stay one. Don't make yourself a target, too.
I know the whole schtick about "it's not that easy," and finances and economic realities and justice and whatever else. Used to be there, too.
The fact is, you will regret it in the end. All of the consequences you are hoping to avoid will happen, because you will lose the respect of your co-workers, your bos(ses), and you will lose your own productivity. Long term, you have one choice: confront or not. And not confronting is a SURE loss (again, long term). If you don't confront, WILL be out of a job eventually, you WILL find that you have been made worse for it with respect to your ability to do the next job.
If you confront and raise hell, you have a CHANCE of coming out of things intact. A chance may seem like a risk you don't want to take. But the other way, losing is a certainty.
So accept the hard truth that someone has decided to fuck you over, accept the hard truth that unless you metaphorically punch them in the face they WILL continue to do it and will intensify the behavior, and then grow a backbone and take your best shot back. Even if you lose that way, at least you took a shot. You didn't sit there like a weenie (which I did for far too long) and take it, then whine like a little girl, lose your self respect, and then find out that that's what everyone thinks of you and that's why you got let go despite taking shit like a hero. You're nobody's hero if you take shit. Management does not want employees that take shit.
Re:Develop a backbone. (Score:5, Insightful)
I should add—you have probably already screwed yourself over.
The right time to hit fan with shit is the FIRST time an incident happens. Show that you're worth a lot, and you know your worth, and you won't stand for it.
By waiting until it's a whole narrative and you're posting to Slashdot, when you do go to management about it, they're going to see you as someone that can't solve your own problems and lets them fester in secret and grow, then brings them up the chain when they're too big for you to solve. This is not a desirable characteristic in an employee.
Live and learn.
Next job, the first time someone fucks with you, tell them in no uncertain terms, "Unless you somehow get promoted ahead of me, you are NOT my manager and I won't stand for that shit. This is a boundary. I'm drawing it right now. Cross it and it'll be you or me around here."
Then, immediately tell your manager, "I just had a bad experience with X. They did Y which I found to be unacceptable and not conducive to my work. I set a boundary. It was conflictual. I told them that if they do it again, this will be a significant issue. I'm not leaving this on your plate or anything, but I did want you to be aware that that happened, and that that's what I said."
Re:Develop a backbone. (Score:4, Interesting)
We have a kind of toxic environment where I work. Very intense competition, managerial structure is pitiful at best. I am myself gaslighted on many occasions -- more verbally than actually through actions, but inaction can sometimes be as damaging as direct action.
I follow the non-confrontational way. It doesn't work all that well, in fact... at least regarding the consequences for my sanity and self-confidence. It helps that I'm old and have been thru a lot of success stories, so they really can't take that from me.
A colleague decide to go the confrontational way like suggested by the parent posters. In our culture, that is seen as a sign being weak and childish. Besides being bullied, he ended up being seen as weirdo, short-fused, unpleasant. All in all, reacting only gave the aggressors a lot more satisfaction.
I haven't got any answer or solution. What I know is that for some people, you must be pushed down so they stay afloat. There's no talk with them, they don't want to form an understanding. The best advice I've seen is to look for good people to foster friendships and build relations -- just for creating a breathable environment or maybe even for mutual interest. The jerks won't do: they would rather lose provided they can see you sinking. Short of a miracle, there's nothing really one can do to bring them to the light.
It's sad, and if you're a normal person this might look worse from a social and even religious point-of-view -- realistically, though, you'd trying to fix people who want to be bad.
Re:Develop a backbone. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Also don't be afraid of official channels. The pathetic bullies are not and will sometimes make noise even if you don't. Putting an emphasis on "wasting tim
Re: (Score:2)
I think in essence this boils down to a "fight or flee" response. Either you stand your ground and fight for a better work environment and possibly lose badly or you dodge the problematic employee/employees/boss and find a better work environment somewhere else. And the premise here is that fight is impossible, then you're not left with a whole lot of choices.
One other thing— (Score:2)
If you have the leverage to do it (seniority, centrality to key projects, etc.) you might be able to parlay the conflict.
"I've had several conflictual interactions with so-and-so recently and I'm worried that there is a power struggle emerging about key decisions. I'd like to nip this in the bud so that we can all get on with our work. To me, this speaks to ambiguous responsibilities and hierarchy, and I wonder if this is going to grow as an issue. For this reason and on the strength of my importance to wh
Re:Develop a backbone. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well said. I had a similar issue with my own manager last year. She decided to micro manage, moved the goal posts repeatedly, tried to blackmail me into doing her work, isolated me from colleagues by saying bad things about me, examining and criticising every piece of work I did, and generally being a bully.
I trained in the army, where pissing contests are the norm, so I have seen this before. I resisted immediately and consistently. This left my manager with two strategies to choose from. Either back off and lose status, or escalate. She chose to escalate. The more she escalated, the more I resisted. It is a risky strategy for her. On the one hand she is betting that I will relent sooner rather than later so she can have her way, and in return she will give me some peace. On the other hand, the more she escalates the more intrusive, abusive, unreasonable, and messy things get for both of us. The messier things get, the more people notice, and not in a "look how well she is managing" kind of way.
Meanwhile she made a friend at HR and told them all about this terribly unprofessional employee she had. Then I got a letter from HR requesting a meeting to discuss some concerns my manager had about my unprofessional behaviour. This is where documentation comes in handy. Try to get every decision in writing. My manager took great care to say verbally anything that I might use against her. The best I could do at that point is write her an email asking for clarification or confirmation. Then she either confirms it, sealing her fate, or refutes it, letting me off the hook, or she ignores it, implicitly accepting it. In any case, there is now a paper trail. Once she sees her request in writing, she usually tries to weasel out of it, implying I misunderstood and comes back with a much more reasonable request.
I succeeded to disprove most of my managers accusations by bringing up old emails. That took the wind out of the remaining accusations. Somewhere in this process my managers new friend at HR realised she had been hoodwinked and swap herself with someone impartial. Then things really started to improve. My manager couldn't conceal or undo some things she did while escalating. HR elevated some issues very high up the ranks. When busy important people have to fix underlings fuck-ups, they remember. They will fix things once, but not twice. My manager knows that if I am going to give up my job and get a shitty reference because of her, I will make it as difficult as possible for her and take her down with me. We have a much better understanding now.
Morel of the story:
- Get everything in writing. You might need it. In any case, written agreements tend to be self limiting and self enforcing.
- Resist firmly and consistently. If you waver once, you give them leverage.
- Things will get much worse before they get better. Find as much support as you can.
- Keep it clean. Let the other person lose their morel high ground if they choose, but don't follow them.
Finally, I would say do not give an ultimatum between X or leaving. I have seen people do that, and the response is generally "OK. Leave. Bye". Your company might start preparing for it, leaving yourself little room to negotiate. You can always leave after trying all other avenues, and finding another job first, but don't let them see it coming.
No, it's not ignorant. (Score:3)
I've spent a lifetime on the left and I'm seeing a lot of young people that have never had to do anything hard claiming that to do anything hard is either (a) mentally abusive, (b) impossible, or (c) unjustified and unfair.
Older generations went thousands of miles overseas to engage in trench warfare. Older feminists scored women's rights without having patron saints above them that would protect them from harassment. This idea that you're incapable of doing anything hard because prejudice, because anger, b
Quit (Score:2)
Unless you're willing to break a few laws and are not generally against the idea of an asshole getting physically harmed.
If you always seem to have bad roommates... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This. We had an employee we had to hand hold and scrutinize everything. One team even went so far to create a special branch just for them. They were convinced they were perfect and everyone else was racist/sexist/egotistical/out to get them. They were absolutely convinced they walked on water and the problem with everyone else.
Truth was, their work sucked. They didn't listen to instructions. They didn't do what they were told to do and instead always did something "better".
Depends on what you mean by "gaslighting" (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with "gaslighting", as I wrote here [blogspot.com], is that it tends to be used in two contexts, one legitimate (people lying about factual events) and one illegitimate (people disagreeing on interpretations of those events). Based on what I'm reading here, it looks like some of both: the unscheduling in particular seems like a red flag, but a lot of the other stuff is contextual and missing details. Furthermore, the fact that the author complains about coworkers' criticisms — and in particular, the criticism of someone they label as a "superstar" within the company, i.e. a person who has developed a sterling reputation — leads me to question the submitter's competence. So, I would advise,
Re:Depends on what you mean by "gaslighting" (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree. It is entirely possible the whiner is an incompetent fool who can't take criticism and refuses to believe they're terrible at their job.
Check whether the organization protects you (Score:5, Informative)
and if not, leave. The check is to first talk to your manager and if that fails to take it if with HR. If that still fails, hand in your notice as soon as you economically can. That may mean staying on a few more months, or may mean leaving immediately. It is neither your expertise nor your responsibility to solve that kind of problem. It is your responsibility to escalate it though, as it harms the organization.
Do not get your hopes up too much for the organization to be able to resolve this, unless you are essential and the piece-of-shit doing this is not, it is pretty likely that they will not resolve the issue and you will have to leave.
Document everything with Dates. (Score:3)
It is amazing how powerful a dispassionate set of written text documenting every detail over a series of months can be.
Then you take the document to your to superiors and explain that because of this harassment you feel the work place is hostile and resign.
Easy! (Score:4, Funny)
Plant ISIS literature on his PC and then call the feds.
I had a micromanaging boss at HP once. (Score:5, Funny)
We'd have department meetings and no matter what anyone else came up with, his idea was somehow always better. After a while we all just clammed up in the meetings, let him have his say, then we had our own, informal dept meetings without him over lunch. We eventually decided that the best way to get rid of him was to make him look good so he'd get promoted away. It took about 6 months but we made it happen. His boss saw what was going on and asked me about it and I told him the whole thing. My immediate boss ended up getting "promoted" to a position as an "individual contributor".
When they go low, you go high...
Just one option... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
what agency are you under the mistaken belief investigates bullying in the workplace?
Re: (Score:2)
If there's a toxic (but not illegal) problem in the workplace, and you're a halfway decent coder, you generally hold the power. You'll be able to find another job--there's massive opportunities in the market. Unless there's a significant reason you need THIS job, get the issue fixed or go somewhere you won't be miserable.
To address the issue, be an adult. Document a few of your concerns, and politely tell your manager. If necessary, escalate. If that doesn't work, f
Re: (Score:3)
Not always... but when one's civic rights are violated, most certainly.
Actually, that toxic problem becomes illegal when somebody has to apply for employment insurance because of it.... particularly in jurisdictions where EI does not normally pay out when a person voluntarily quits the job.
Re: (Score:2)
God are you people serious? (Score:2)
There's really no other option. I don't relish confrontation but don't shy away from it. However this is not a fight you can win and you look like a moron for trying. Being a passive bitch about it with all the CYA emails and documentation isn't goin
Leave and let die (Score:2)
Or, as shown by the fact that you consider staying in such a bad environment, you know you can't find a better job, because you're shit yourself, and the company would really be better off without you.
In any case, you have to go.
Ask for a raise. (Score:5, Interesting)
Just go and ask for a raise. If they don't give it to you, leave. If they do give it to you, you will be considered more important than that sociopathic asshole and you will be able to tell them that that guy is a jerk and you want him fired or moved out of your department/team.
Out them.... (Score:2, Insightful)
I had someone do this to me while working in Wall Street.
Told me to do all sorts of things in private then days later in the team review started complaining and calling the idea dumb. Said he told me to do a different thing and bla bla you know the rest.
Started off little and got bigger until I started literally hating the job itself. He was all buddy-buddy with the boss too so all that could be done was to leave for another team. To drive the point home I worked even harder at impressing the new team and g
Tiered response (Score:2)
If he's at the same level as you (Score:2)
He'll get start steering clear of you to avoid the extra work. Such people are always incompetent and lazy to a man (or woman).
Not 'Gaslighting' (Score:5, Insightful)
Watch the original film. It's all about one person doing a spectrum of things to make the second person question their own judgement, their own recollection of facts, and even their own sanity. It's about undermining someone's OWN sense of their worth, abilities, and memory - not trying to make them look bad in front of other people. If they CAN make their victim so full of self-doubt that they won't even try to get a third party to weigh in, it's just that much better. But, as in the movie, the whole point was for a villain to throw his victim off the trail while he spent time searching the house for something valuable - to make her doubt her own judgement and soundness of mind that she wouldn't trust herself to question what he was up to.
The OP is completely mis-using the term.
Need to be able to leave that job (Score:3)
I've experienced gaslighting. Many of us in IT have experienced hostile work environments. There are many options for dealing with it. By far the easiest, fastest way is to simply leave. You're not leaving just for your own mental well being. Another reason to leave is to take their power away, gives them less room to maneuver when abusing your former colleagues.
Unfortunately, many employees don't position themselves to be able to do that without prohibitive loss. And employers encourage that! Ever have your boss suggest you should buy a new car and house? I have, more than once. I didn't understand why that was any of their business the 1st time. Now I know that's why. They think of you as a "flight risk", and like the idea of you feeling chained to your job by debt up to your eyeballs. Lose that job and your life blows up. You lose your house, spouse, car, the respect of your friends, your credit rating, etc. They have code phrases for this, stuff like "showing team spirit" and "commitment". There are sick managers out there who enjoy bullying and abusing hapless underlings.
If you are determined to hang on for financial reasons, pride in your successes, don't want to leave under a cloud of failure, don't want to be labeled a quitter and a wimp, feel like there are still worthy people you can help, or the environment isn't completely horrible and has its redeeming qualities, and whatever other reasons, there's still much else you can do. There will always be some crap to handle at any job, and it is impractical to walk out on every employer unless you're independently wealthy and can retire at the age of 30 or some such. Still improve your financial situation. Next, keeping records is huge. Get all the gaslighters' crap down in writing. Ask them to email or text you, not just give you verbal instructions which can be denied later. Do it smoothly too, don't be verbally demanding, just be firm and put your time to use on other duties until they give you written instruction. What may very well happen is that they get cold feet. They don't want a paper trail showing what scumbags they really are. They'll foam at the mouth with rage and frustration, but they will back down if they have any brains. They may not, they may indeed give it to you in writing. They may try to weasel around with their written instructions. If they threaten to fire you, call them on that. Tell them you're waiting, hurry up and fire you already. It usually is a bluff, but it may not be, and if so, that's okay too. Being fired is not the end of the world.
A big problem is assessing management demands. It can sometimes be very hard to tell if they really are asking for too much. Asking for perpetual motion is too much. Asking for the moon might not be. Likely they have no idea either. It's their job to work that out, not come up with a schedule out of thin air but get input from their experts and work it out. But sometimes managers are lazy on that and try to compensate by bullying their underlings. Ask you for a schedule, then behind your back alter it to cut the time way down, and throw in a few simple little extras that aren't so simple or little. In any case, it's not good to declare some demand is impossible and unreasonable and walk out, if it wasn't.
So there it is. Free yourself from your own desperation. Whichever way things work out, years later you'd like to be proud of the decisions you made and the manner you handled yourself. No job is worth breaking laws you respect and treacherously throwing colleagues under the bus. There are bigger things in life than that. No job is worth your self respect. Being unemployed is hard, but it is not The End.
Re: (Score:2)
redirection (Score:3)
Advice other than changing jobs (Score:2)
I don't know any "unofficial" ways to deal with this that you have not heard. I have wondered if a group "intervention" might work, but I have never seen it tried in a workplace. I have tried talking bluntly to some difficult people. The results have varied. I think the times when I got some good results, I had kept their point of view in mind. Be prepared to have more than one such conversation.
Getting anyone to change behavior may be very difficult if the behavior has been allowed for a long time. I
Not really gaslighting (Score:5, Insightful)
They should probably try to find out if other people have had these issues with this employee. Talk to HR, as that's supposed to be "confidential". Don't mention names at first, just tell them the situation at first. Make sure THEY are documenting it. But, yeah, it sounds like it's time to move on. Make sure you update your resume.
Turnabout is fair play ... (Score:2)
Several conflict resolution strategies (Score:2)
Most organizations have difficult people. Some pairs of people just get on each other's nerves. Often it comes down to circumstances -- did you meet at the beginning of a stressful period? Others who remember the "good old days" may have fond memories that help them through the present. etc.
In order to build a healthy career, you have to learn how to manage these situations productively. People who master the skill get promoted.
Some advice: Don't take it personally. Don't let the problem fester. Don
Please stop overusing the term gaslighting... (Score:5, Insightful)
I see the term gaslighting being thrown around so much in the last year, but most people really don't seem to understand what it means. This is not gaslighting. Gaslighting is *literally* trying to convince the *victim* that they are insane or misremembering real incidents or facts.
In this case their point is not to make the victim think they are crazy or wrong, it's to convince others that they are screwing things up. That's just basic bullying, undermining, or backstabbing. Not gaslighting.
Semantics... (Score:5, Insightful)
The term Gaslighting [wikipedia.org] does not mean, what the submitter believes it means:
The question itself remains valid, but the misuse of the term is so annoying, I'm not going to give my (very valuable) advice on the subject.
Play the game or don't (Score:4, Insightful)
Number one rule of not being bullied is to be part of a pack. Don't be singled out. Form a pack with your other colleagues.
So, either drum up the popular support and find a way to change the gaslighter. This option will take a lot of energy and it will take away from your work and life.
Or, leave and find somewhere else.
Punch him in the dick (Score:2)
If you can't confront them, or talk to them, or talk to your boss, or go through channels and you're effectively deadlocked in the status quo...
1. You probably don't understand your workplace very well.
2. You should leave.
3. Punch him in the dick on your way out. Or now. Or in the parking lot. Or follow him home and punch him in the dick there. But the most important thing you can do is to connect your knuckles to his pecker.
Easy (Score:2)
"Raising things through the official channels is out of the question"
You can't even talk about it? Quit immediately. You don't deserve that kind of bullshit. Any company that can't talk about personel issues is not one you want to work for. Let them crash and burn.
However, unless the douche is the owner's kid, I bet someone will hear you out. Start a new job search before bringing it up, just to be safe.
Consider the Painfully Obvious (Score:4, Informative)
Two options (Score:3)
A lot of people who are responding are assuming a bad work environment is systemic when it may not be. It is surprising how many dillholes manage to build themselves empires inside of bigger corporations without getting caught. I have faced this exact scenario at a prior job (manager was exactly like this, and she also had a weird sexual thing for me. Tried to use the whole gas lighting thing as a power play). Company wasn't bad, just her section. I managed to win an ultimately get her fired. The trick in this situation is to find ways to document their behavior and the fact that you were on the right side of the issue, then "inadvertently" expose them when they try to screw you over. If it looks like you are gunning for them, you look like the bad guy. These guys pride themselves on always sucking up to management and looking like the good guy. Your job, if you think it is worth fighting the battle, is to reveal their skullduggery, but make it look innocent. An example from my experience. This manager told me to make a bunch of bad design choices on a client's product. I knew they were wrong, and I told her as much, but she cut me down in front of my colleagues and the client (by misrepresenting the choices). Later I emailed her and said, I must have misunderstood what she was asking, and would she please clarify (thus appearing to submit and getting her to document her explanation, while subtly documenting why I thought it was wrong and that I had explained it to her). Of course the project turned into a train wreck. Manager summoned me to her office, and frankly propositioned me or threatened to get me fired over it if I didn't go along. I refused. Then, when we were presenting, the now horribly screwed up project to the client, as well as upper management in our company, I made sure to print off those emails and take them with me. Of course the meeting was a disaster, the client was mad, as was our upper management. As soon as they started questioning why we'd made all of these stupid decisions, and ignored some of the their direct requests and needs, my manager immediately started to turn on me and the rest of the team. She tried to make it sound like she was blameless and couldn't understand why we'd gone against her direct orders. After letting her dig herself in deep for a minute or two, I pulled our her emails that I had printed off, and said, "You're right! I don't know why things got so out of hand. When I emailed you for clarification, I thought I was very clear on these client needs. Let's use this meeting to do some constructive, 'lessons-learned'. I figured you probably had a superior picture of the requirements, and so that's why I followed your directions to the best of my ability. It must have been my misunderstanding."
Here I looked like I was just doing my job, and thought I'd made a mistake, but actually I exposed what a lying, piece of shit she was. A few days later, the rest of the team and I were each interviewed by upper management on how things had been going. Again, I didn't frame it as personal, or like I was trying to throw her under the bus, I just explained and showed email after email where I had tried to get clarification, after clearly explaining what she was demanding and why that wasn't a good choice, but each time I showed upper management the email, I pretended to be a bit naive on what could have gone wrong. Since I wasn't being "vindictive" it was pretty obvious where the problem was. The rest of my coworkers were only too happy to throw this lady under the bus because these types of jerks rarely screw with only one person. Next thing I knew, she got a forced "lateral promotion" to a dead-end position with no under-staff and shortly there-after got "laid-off".
I was gaslighted at work (Score:3)
by my manager. After getting my morale seriously pummelled for several months, I sent the CTO of our organization git blame logs that showing I was being beaten up for trivial things that my manager's most senior reports had in fact taught me to do and that they had coded and shipped out to clients on other projects my manager was overseeIng.
Needless to say...I was shown the door a few months later. This would have happened anyways, but at least by confronting the gaslighter with hard evidence I can look at myself in the mirror and I'm not the emotional wreck I'd be if I sat back and did nothing. I don't regret it in the least.
And just maybe I made small dent in that jerk's ability to gaslight others in the future.
Or cameras (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In this case and in this market, it almost aways is a, and THE option. Either the article poster is competent and can get a job, or he isn't and should stop complaining...
Re: (Score:2)