Ask Slashdot: How Do You Stream/Capture Video? 155
A user writes: I am starting to look at capturing and streaming video, specifically video games in 4K at 60 frames per second. I have a Windows 10 box with a 6GB GTX 1060 GPU and a modern AMD octa-core CPU recording with Nvidia ShadowPlay. This works flawlessly, even in 4K at 60 fps. ShadowPlay produces MP4 files which play nice locally but seem to take a long time to upload to YouTube -- a 15-minute 4K 60fps video took almost three hours. Which tools are you fellow Slashdotters using to create, edit, and upload video in the most efficient manner?
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Yeah, the original submission fascinates me. He's worried about 4K content at 60fps but he's using a 1060? Drop resolution to 1080p, turn on all the graphics to make it much prettier and his videos will be much nicer to watch and also much quicker to upload.
Simple (Score:1)
OBS Studio
Or ghetto (Score:2)
or straight ffmpeg [ffmpeg.org] for a more low-level/ghetto feel(*).
Regarding the upload:
- Keep in mind that Google will recompress each uploaded video using its whole range of supported codec and varied screen resolution.
(Even if you upload a good H264, it will also generate lower bitrate H264, VP9, Theora, H263, soon AV1 too [slashdot.org], etc. Same goes with audio: AAC, OPUS, Vorbis, MPEG Audio Layer, etc.)
- Thus even if you have a ginormous internet connection with massive bandwidth, the recompression *will* take time even if the
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twitch only allows a 3Mbit stream
All my Twitch output has been 6Mbps full HD video.
I use OBS, it was just easier to get working than Shadowplay. I play at 1440p but stream at 1080p and my CPU barely notices the overhead.
Um, duh. (Score:5, Informative)
You realize that 4k at 60fps is equivalent to 8 1080P HD streams?
Itâ(TM)s going to take a while to upload.
Re:Um, duh. (Score:5, Informative)
Even for Slashdot, this is extremely stupid.
-- 4k 60fps video files are very large (unless they are absolute worst shit quality)
-- ISPs severely throttle uploads
-- This results in long upload times.
What part of this do you not understand?
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If you are streaming your video games on You Tube, I would say just downgrade the image quality. to 1080p. Mostly because such a resolution would be lost to most viewers (Cell phones, or laptops) very few people will be watching a youtube game in full screen on a system big enough to actually play the game themselves.
Oddly enough when yo play the game it is using less bandwidth then the actual video recording does, because it is generating mostly Vector graphics, so the video card is doing most of the work
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At least you had the part about using a lower resolution right. You should just have cut off the second paragraph.
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The questioner seems to understand that, they are asking what tools can be used to edit the video down rather than just throwing the raw 4k60 stream up there.
For a start they could re-encode it in H.265 to make it about 1/4 the original size. But that has the down side that it probably takes as long to encode as it would to upload anyway. So a better option is to drop down to 1080p60 or 720p60. Depending on the game maybe go to 30 fps as well.
Downmixing sound to stereo might help a bit too.
For editing Shotc
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Does transcoding fall under editing? Perhaps, but I'd say not.
In any case, he doesn't even mention file sizes. My reading was that he was just trying to find a way to make his humongous files upload faster, not addressing the issue of their being humongous in the first place.
Then again it seems nobody can ask questions properly these days.
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To be fair, I did just google "open source video editing" and those were the first two results. I don't want to sound condescending but it sounds like working on google skillz might be worth investing some time in. In this case "open source" is probably better than "free", as you discovered.
Re:Um, duh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (GIFT) [penny-arcade.com]
On a more serious note Portrait of a Troll: Q&A with Dr. Erin Buckels [motivemetrics.com]
The problem is the OP didn't show he actually researched the problem and thus sounds completely clueless. This site jumps on people who can't even take 2 seconds to actually "Think, McFly!" about what they are asking.
If he had prefaced his sub-text with something like -- "I just started learning about video streaming and it seems complicated to me" -- then more people would be willing to give them some slack.
The fact that he took the time to post his question on /. BUT couldn't be arsed to spend the time to learn about:
* Mbps (Mega bits-per-second) and
* File Size
shows that he isn't actually using his brain.
There is a reason RTFM exists, or the modern vernacular: LMGTFY.
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Exactly. This isn't fucking Quora.
Add to the above the gratuitous praise for and link to some nVidia technology and this is easily the most dreadful thing that has been on Slashdot in 2018.
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Re: Um, duh. (Score:5, Insightful)
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"60fps is double the frame rate of a standard 30fps 1080p stream."
Except almost all my 1080p streams on my youtube channel are 60 FPS, not 30. Some are 240FPS.
So, no, OP is just blisteringly stupid and doesn't know the platform or what it is capable of.
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Youtube absolutely supports the 240FPS videos my phone shoots for slow-motion. In fact it is the only video site that does so and respects the slow-motion markers, so the video slows down when it is supposed to. Vimeo does not. Facebook does not. Twitter does not.
Open Broadcaster Software (Score:1)
Though mainly a streamer myself, I've done some recording in the past. I've got a setup fairly close to yours, though my 1060 is a 3GB. Using OBS (Open Broadcaster Software - https://obsproject.com/) I've simultaneously streamed (720p @ 60FPS) while recording (1080p @ 60FPS). You can record in multiple formats, though while recording as MP4 you may end up losing video if OBS crashes. I've done recording both with NVENC as well as x264, both while streaming with little issue.
OBS Studio. Done. (Score:5, Informative)
There's a bunch to your "simple" question. :-) Starting from the end of your post: your uploads are taking so long because of the fill size. If you're recording 4K/60 and you haven't changed any of the default ShadowPlay settings, you're likely recording at 50Mbit/sec. A 15 minute 50Mbit/sec file, even a compressed MP4, is gonna be a bit large. There's no way around that. And you *want* that bitrate given the 4K resolution that you're recording; lowering that will make your raw recordings lose some details.
If you're happy with ShadowPlay, keep using it. The "accepted" software solution that most use is OBS Studio, and it has access to the same NVENC encoder that ShadowPlay uses. But it's vastly more configurable and way more flexible. ShadowPlay is literally made so that anyone can fire it up, hit a button, and go. OBS takes a bit of tinkering with at first, just to get everything configured the way you want it. But once you learn how flexible it is, you'll never go back. It'll produce the same h.264 files ShadowPlay can with the same "no load on the system". IOW: it won't affect your gaming.
This is a YOOOGE topic, however. And it can go in so many different directions depending on what your final goal is. Some folks record and stream using a single PC. Others (such as myself) record one one machine and stream with another. There's lots of flexibility available with this, it just depends on what you're after, what you're willing to run, and how much money you're willing to spend.
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Agreed on all points. If you're happy with your current workflow then look at getting faster internet, mainly your upload speed.
Your video files are likely huge, so it's no surprise it takes a while to upload to youtube.
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> HAH. good luck on that one if you are not in area that provides symmetrical internet connections.
Well, like it or not, Malenx's post is on point. Sure, it may not be easy to "get better Internet", and that's fair. But ultimately, to upload a video file to YouTube in less time, you either need:
1. Faster upload speeds
2. To reduce the resolution/size of your files.
Our OP seems intent on 4K/60, which requires a *LOT* of bits to deliver clean and clear video. That's gonna make the file sizes quite larg
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It bears noting that #1 doesn't necessarily mean buying better internet access at home. The file could always be transferred to a removable drive and then take that to somewhere with a better upload connection.
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Last I knew, YT transcodes everything to webm, though that may have changed since I checked. So unless you're sending them a webm file (which will bring your PC to its knees to create), you're still going to have to wait for YT to transcode.
Re: OBS Studio. Done. (Score:3, Informative)
Brag time. Moved to a house in the âburbs that has fiber optic to the house. 750Mbps down, 800 up (sustained). Itâ(TM)s glorious, and costs exactly $85/mo. Midwest living, yo!
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On the plus side, semi-rural life is nice, and I've got nearly 3 acres backing up to a stream. I'm not staring at another house when I look out the back window or sit on the deck. All that's m
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> It may be worth getting commercial account. They often have symmetrical speeds and no data caps.
That depends entirely on where the OP lives and what ISP(s) (s)he has access to. If in the US and the only choice is one of the major MSOs, then, for the time being, it'll be asymmetrical.
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Plus, after the upload is complete, YouTube will be spending LOTS of cycles to transcode that video into all the various formats and scales they support. Just because the upload is done, doesn't mean the video itself is available until they've created all the sets of video files they need to support all the devices in the universe.
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That's a local configuration issue, not something wrong w/OBS. Check your settings.
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These articles and youtube videos were created by folks that literally have no no idea what they're talking about. Set OBS to NVENC. Crank the bitrate to 50Mbit/sec just like ShadowPlay uses for its default. Go.
Zero load on the CPU and zero FPS hit. Full stop.
And yes, I've spent considerable time using both. ShadowPlay is a very useful app for folks who don't want or need the flexibility that OBS offers. OBS, on the other hand, is a "cake and eat it too" app. But you need to put in some configuration
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The problem is: YouTube can't ingest h.265 files, so our OP would still need to transcode it to h.264. Last I checked, YT had no intentions of adopting h.265 as an allowed ingest, either, as it's insanely computationally expensive to de-encode.
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Cool! That's a relatively new thing for them, then. Good to know!
Super 8 (Score:4, Funny)
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4k on a single 1060? (Score:1)
What games are you playing that you're able to get 60fps at 4k with a single gtx1060?
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"What games are you playing that you're able to get 60fps at 4k with a single gtx1060?"
Tetris.
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/sarcasm Gee, if only there was a way to modify the game Options of the Video Settings to chose between Quality or Performance. Nah, that scalability thing will never catch on.
Maybe he is streaming a ~10-year old game such as L4D or Minecraft with radius of 4? :-)
The 1060 isn't a potato (nor is it beefy) -- video settings exist for a reason. The OP didn't say what game(s) they are streaming.
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The GTX 1060 is a Tier 4 [tomshardware.com] GPU. Granted, the OP probably should be using a GTX 1080 for 4K res but we don't know what game and video settings the OP is using. Maybe the 1060 is good enough for their needs. Like you, I'm very skeptical, but unlike you, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt instead of prejudging before we have all the facts.
Regardless, this is just another sign that the OP is clueless.
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Isn't that the nature of the beast? (Score:2)
Missing piece of information (Score:2)
"a 15-minute 4K 60fps video took almost three hours."
How big is the file?
Re:Missing piece of information (Score:4, Funny)
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Sorry, I don't speak metric.
How many elephants squared per library of congress is that?
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> How big is the file?
If they're recording at ShadowPlay's default 50Mbit/sec rate, that'd by a 5.6GB file, give or take.
(50Mbit/sec * 15 * 60sec) / 8
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I haven't used Shadowplay in an age; I'll bet the maximum is... 100Mbit/sec? ;-)
Dear Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm recording massively large video clips that no one will watch and it takes forever to upload them to YouTube. I have a 50Mb/s upload speed and can't figure out why this 60 gig file takes three hours. Pleas help me do math.
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Almost makes you wish for the days of 1200 baud again doesn't it?
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Too much data, (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a 50 Mbps upload service, and if Youtube server is absorbing it at that full speed, you are looking at 208000 seconds, or 2.4 solar days. You say it takes three hours. That works out to a compression ratio of 20.
Looks like it is not reasonable to expect anything faster, at this resolution and frame rate.
Lots of people don't realize how quickly numbers grow when you chain multiplications. "Four trace widths, three trace gaps, four via diameters, six frequencies, 8 excitations... OK your parametric sweep will run 2304 simulations, each needing half a TB of memory and 2 days of run time".
Or my users asking for 100 micron resolution mesh on a model that is a couple of meters across. "User specified a 8 trillion element mesh. No wonder mesh maker ran for 8 hours and ran out of memory. Not a defect" is the resolution.
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Plus most recorders are optimised for speed rather than storage efficiency, since if you're recording live you miss it and it's gone.
Not the same thing but the same principle, I record analogue TV with an old PVR500. At DVD resolution it chucks out nearly 3G per hour, which is ridiculous. If only there was something that could crop it, chop it, normalise the sound and make the bitrate more sensible... they could call it mencoder or something.
Re:Too much data, (Score:4, Funny)
they could call it mencoder or something.
Did you just assume the program's gender?!
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Use Handbrake (Score:1)
OBS (Score:2)
I am a little curious about the licensing. It looks like OBS was forked into OBS Studio? Or was this a rewrite? And if so, what is the currently supported one and what is the license?
OBS and Blender (Score:2)
I use OBS and Blender for making work videos. The workflow is not efficient, but the quality is good. I suspect the failure is my own ineptitude and not the fault of the tools.
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1080 HD looks like shit on YouTube. My monitor is a cheap TCL 49" 4K TV--it looks/works great. When I watch video I always look for 4k since the 1080 stuff looks like shit on my monitor. I suspect a lot of other people are in the same boat which is why I want to record and play back in 60fps 4k. 1080 is dead or dying quick.
You need a gigabit upload link. Pony up the dollars if you want to upload 12 GB any faster.
Recompress your video (Score:2)
I use Handbrake for those things which uses the ffmpeg libraries. Never used ShadowPlay but ffmpeg generally compresses much more than anything I've seen before.
For recording, I would use an external HDMI encoder, you can stream it into a separate machine to stream composed video out with OBS Studio, you don't need anything fancy in regards video cards, I've seen it used on a Core i7 rig with a relatively cheap video card.
Holey-Moley Dude (Score:2)
You're trying to put up videos in quality that rivals major motion picture quality, they use freakin super-computers, they upload through multiple fiber lines bridged. I know a guy that worked on the movie 'The Equalizer", his job was to edit the character, Robert McCall's wristwatch and the blood splatter. You can't match that kind of staffing levels and equipment.
The Big-time youtubers have dedicated editors, camera operaters and directors working on sets specifically designed for video production. The st
OBS Studio or FFMPEG (Score:2)
Buy faster internet. (Score:2)
Buy a better pipe to the internet with a real ISP.
Have a seperate CPU and GPU to encode the stream in real time.
Get the result of that encoding to upload within the new network limitations.
OBS (Score:2)
Use OBS. It's Free and open source, easy to use and full of features. I've seen other people post videos that were recorded using Nvidia Shadowplay. You know how I could tell? Because there were fucking popups all the time showing it!
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Fuck Millennials...
Damn straight. Wannabe vlogger can't even be bothered to watch the "How to vlog" vlog, and expects free answers from slashdot.
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Only an idiot goes after free advertising.
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