Ask Slashdot: What Should I Do About My Landlord Forcing Smart Things Into My Home? (cnet.com) 268
New submitter aaronb1138 writes: So my apartment (UDR) pulled a bit of a blitz last Friday (10/11) to install new "Smart" IoT stuff in my home today (10/15) under the umbrella of SmartRent management. According to a CNET article from earlier this year, this seems to be SmartRent's usual method of attack. UDR is usually pretty miserly, so I suspect the monetization of my apartment usage is being sold at a nice price to advertisers. SmartRent FAQ claims no data sales, but their privacy policy is wide open and gives no such assurances. Further, they won't acknowledge if they also operate in California and as such provide me with their CCPA compliance information (I'm in TX, but figured, take the shot).
I asked SmartRent's Project Manager, Steven, as well as SmartRent's support not to plug into the electrical power I pay for, but I doubt that will be respected and instead I'll find them stealing my electricity for their own purposes when I get home. The install list is a smart lock (one of the hackable Yale cheapos), smart thermostat, a couple leak detectors, a dimmer plug -- and the scary part -- SmartRent's own Alloy brand SmartRent Hub with 4G backup (who pays the extra for 4G?). I'll do a full hardware teardown to find out what else is inside the Hub -- hopefully just minimally functional cheap ARM stuff and radios. But what else do I do from here /.? I don't really have time to file a lawsuit, and my gut tells me every step I take against the landlord is going to bring their more onerous leasing agreement line items on my head.
I asked SmartRent's Project Manager, Steven, as well as SmartRent's support not to plug into the electrical power I pay for, but I doubt that will be respected and instead I'll find them stealing my electricity for their own purposes when I get home. The install list is a smart lock (one of the hackable Yale cheapos), smart thermostat, a couple leak detectors, a dimmer plug -- and the scary part -- SmartRent's own Alloy brand SmartRent Hub with 4G backup (who pays the extra for 4G?). I'll do a full hardware teardown to find out what else is inside the Hub -- hopefully just minimally functional cheap ARM stuff and radios. But what else do I do from here /.? I don't really have time to file a lawsuit, and my gut tells me every step I take against the landlord is going to bring their more onerous leasing agreement line items on my head.
Step one (Score:3)
Unplug the SmartRent hub. Wouldn't that solve most of the problem?
Although unless you have a physical key, that might lock you out...
Re:Step one (Score:5, Informative)
Actually that could cause trouble. You are removing an improvement your landlord put in, they can charge you back the cost of coming back out to check it.
Better to tell them in writing you won't accept it.
You have a point about YOUR electricity. Smoke detectors / outdoor lights / etc are all supposed to be wired to a landlord meter. Unless your landlord has contracted with an electrician to hardwire the plug to a landlord meter, they have no right to install it.
Re: (Score:3)
My contract has a clause in it that I cannot turn off the ventilation system. Unless they have inserted a similar clause for the SmartHub, I don't see why a tenant would be in violation of anything. They are not removing the improvement, just turning it off temporarily while they occupy the premises.
Re:Step one (Score:4, Informative)
My contract has a clause in it that I cannot turn off the ventilation system.
This one actually makes sense, as the biggest problem in multi-tenant buildings is mould and rot caused by a lack of ventilation. The ventilation system protects their investments, and your health.
Re: Step one (Score:3)
Even in that case a ventilation system shall be a central system where the landlord pays the electricity.
Re: Bend over and take it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Let's say you unplug it, and turn it off.
They send a repairman out, who costs $50 an hour, to see why the hub is off.
They realize it's because you shut it off, you get billed the cost of the repairman.
I know you'll say "but it only took a few seconds for the repairman" but that's not how maintenance people work.
Of course your rights vary by state based on state laws, but definitely don't want to go changing things without a landlords permission.
Re: (Score:2)
Plug it back in before the repairman comes? Many places require a landlord to give you 24 hours notice before they enter (or send someone to enter) the premises, unless it's an emergency (like a water leak, fire, etc).
Re: (Score:3)
You don't think they'll figure it out?
The smart thing is not to play passive aggressive games. Tell your landlord, in writing, about your objections.
If they're good htey will comply and not install smart appliances in your home or you'll move, and make good on the promise
Re:Step one (Score:4, Interesting)
They realize it's because you shut it off, you get billed the cost of the repairman.
If you aren't contractually obliged to keep it on, then I don't see how they can transfer that cost to you. They should have phoned and spoken to the tenant before sending someone, in which case they know what the cause of the "failure" is.
Personally if it was me, I would have no issue with some of the monitoring aspects of this - the leak monitoring, and ensuring temperature and humidity does not go outside certain ranges. I would have an issue with the landlord's ability to turn my heating up and down at their will (probably a real concern if utilities are included in the rent), monitoring my coming and going and potentially remotely unlocking my door to strangers without my consent. So probably I wouldn't turn off the hub, but want to disconnect some devices and put clear contractual limits in place for others. Smart home stuff is great for HVAC, not so great for door locks unless you are running a hotel and need to give and revoke access to guests remotely.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Step one (Score:4, Interesting)
Be SMART and MOVE (Score:4, Insightful)
you dont need to put up with anything. just be smart(er) and move.
Re:Be SMART and MOVE (Score:5, Insightful)
just be smart(er) and move.
Yeah, because everyone can simply buy themselves out of a lease/mortgage and find somewhere else at the drop of a hat.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure about where you or the OP live, but most places significant alterations to the unit are a valid reason to dissolve the lease with no penalties. Of course, where I live, a current lease is also a valid reason to refuse such changes.
Thing is, you're renting. Unless your lease or local laws protect you, your options are to move or take the landlord to court and set a new precedent.
I think the problem is moving costs (Score:2)
Also it's entirely possible if he moves the next place will have the same or similar owners doing the same thing in short order. The apartments where I am are being bought up by a few big conglomerates.
Re: (Score:3)
Sure. Moving is expensive and a pain in the ass. I'm not sure how that's relevant.
This type of problem crops up when you live in someone else's building. If you don't like it and no actual law exists against it you can sue, petition for new laws, insert clauses against it in the lease before you sign it, move to another rental, buy your own place, or put up with it.
Re:Be SMART and MOVE (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno. He may not have to move yet. Is the smart crap in the original lease? If not, he may have a leg to stand on to refuse the stuff until that lease is up. No smart crap till the next lease agreement. Then move rather than sign a "smartcrap" lease.
IANAL
Re: (Score:3)
Looks like I've got to have my attorney add some stuff to my leases. Cover all the possibilities, you know.
And while I'm not too interested in adding smart locks and hubs, a water monitor would be very useful. One tenant letting a toilet run without notifying me costs $1200 per month. For one unit. I don't want to bill them, I want to prevent this.
oops, it broke (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Check also for FCC device acceptance, UL #, for EACH AND EVERY COMPONENT (includes cabling, wallwarts, etc.). If you have someone that understands building codes that cover your specific geography, buy them a beer and find out just what is, and what is not allowed. Document everything, and consider your stance from there.
All this said, jamming these devices over-the-air can be amazingly illegal with huge fines. OTOH, sometimes a little bit of local interference can make things go haywire, like $3.99 Goodwil
Re: (Score:2)
> jamming these devices over-the-air can be amazingly illegal with huge fines.
What if you jam them in your microwave for 5 seconds instead?
Lease (Score:2)
What does your lease/rental agreement say about improvements/changes?
Re: (Score:2)
Most leasing agreement do not allow for change in fees during the lease. At lease renewal certainly they can, but during the time of the lease the fees should remain fixed.
When my landlord tried o push more and more "fees" for "my convenience", I ended up buying a house. Turns out it is bigger and cheaper (even after accounting for maintenance).
Re:Lease (Score:5, Insightful)
That was my thought as well. If you signed a lease that lets them install spyware in your apartment at any time, yeah, you're SOL.
But if nothing in there would allow them to install monitoring hardware in your apartment, they can suck it until you sign a lease which does.
The last condo I was in had a no-dog policy that wasn't enforced for years. They finally decided to enforce it, and gave me a form to fill out to disclose all pets living in my condo. I tossed that. I had 2 cats, but nothing in the agreement I signed had anything to do with cats, and there was nothing that would legally compel me to fill that out unless the condo board brought to vote a new policy and passed it at their annual meeting.
Look at what you sign before you do, and keep a copy. If it's not in the contract and not covered by law, it's a polite request and nothing more.
Good and Bad (Score:5, Insightful)
So there's actually pros and cons here.
From the plus side, a smart thermostat can be used for good. It can let your landlord know in the event of a malfunction (phone home if it has an issue or stops working), prevent tenants from putting the heat above or below a certain level (yes it's your heat BUT if you turn off the heat in the winter you'll have broken pipes, which is bad for everyone), allow you to save on heating costs, etc.
Similar pros can be made for other connected devices. Water leak devices that can phone home if a pipe starts to leak (useful under the kitchen sink), and other such things. And, while a broken pipe would be painful for both tenant and landlord, many features are just for landlords. Tenant locked out and forgot their keys? Unlock the door with a smart lock instead of driving over to the building.
BUT privacy is an issue. Some of the smart thermostats include microphones, and you do not want your landlord able to be able to listen in or spy on you!
Additionally, what if your landlord is evil, and decides to change your smart lock when your rent is late? Locking you out until you pay?
So, all in all, it's a mixed bag, and the law hasn't caught up yet. In many states you can opt out of "smart" locks and things, and inform your landlord you want old fashioned locks and things and they cannot force a smart device on you. If they do try to force it, document document document! Get everything in writing, send it certified, and inform your landlord you will be notifying the state attorney general, and / or breaking your lease if they force the issue.
Re: Good and Bad (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed with most of your points. My concern is motivations of the parties involved. I am not Smartrent's customer, and their privacy policy is garbage from my layperson reading. This isn't like smart / IoT stuff I own and administer.
I'm similarly concerned so few consumers understand the privacy implications presented.
As for "just unplug the hub" arguments, what is to stop these devices from hopping on the neighbors hub. All that would take is modest firmware modifications.
And then there is the Smartrent / Alloy Hub. The 4G backup easily doubles or triples the cost. Putting up capital like that indicates too much motivation, and not the benevolent kind. Plus being custom hardware instead of vanilla COTS, what does the security / update landscape look like?
Oh and nothing in my lease allows them access to my electricity. Existing fire alarms on on plenum wiring back to central fire alarm and suppression and I think similar for existing leak detection (4 story building with fire doors and central sprinklers).
Regarding the investment, these are pricier / paying to be close to work and fun apartments, but they fail to keep both elevators working through a full summer each of the 3 years I have been there (both break every summer at a minimum). But the place has at least been consistent on putting money into CapEx that increases their value on paper while neglecting OpEx.
Re: Good and Bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed with most of your points.
I think you should take a breath. Not that there's no risk here, but I think it's being significantly overblown... and everyone is ignoring the fact that a malicious landlord willing to break laws could already do most everything they're freaking out about without the IoT devices and without your knowledge or participation, and these devices don't make the malicious things any more legal.
And then there is the Smartrent / Alloy Hub. The 4G backup easily doubles or triples the cost. Putting up capital like that indicates too much motivation, and not the benevolent kind.
Not necessarily. Is heat included in your rent? If so, the smart thermostat alone could generate enough savings to more than cover the entire cost. Well, I suppose that's not "benevolent", more "self-serving" but not against your interest.
Leak detectors could also pay for themselves -- one leaky pipe can do thousands of dollars of damage, and a leaky faucet can bump up the water bill considerably -- and the door lock could eliminate the need for the landlord to manage stacks of physical keys -- and the risk of having a master key.
Also, the majority of people would consider "smart apartments" better than "dumb apartments", so it could be a simple attempt to increase the attractiveness (and, eventually, the rents) of the complex.
Oh and nothing in my lease allows them access to my electricity.
I suggest you just calculate the monthly cost and ask to have them cover it or deduct it from your rent. Odds are it will be pennies per month.
Regarding the investment, these are pricier / paying to be close to work and fun apartments, but they fail to keep both elevators working through a full summer each of the 3 years I have been there (both break every summer at a minimum). But the place has at least been consistent on putting money into CapEx that increases their value on paper while neglecting OpEx.
So maybe your better strategy is to use these changes to argue your way out of your lease and move. If you need to, for a couple hundred bucks you can get an attorney to write a scary letter threatening nasty legal action if they force this on you, and suggesting that if they really want to insist you'd be happy to terminate your lease with no penalties and a full refund of any deposit.
Re: Good and Bad (Score:5, Insightful)
The hackable door lock means that you have to give up the security of your home for the convenience of the landlord. Check local legislation if it permits installation of secondary locks to improve security.
Re: (Score:2)
The hackable door lock means that you have to give up the security of your home for the convenience of the landlord.
If it's actually hackable. Cite?
Re: Good and Bad (Score:3)
And mechanics locks aren't "hackable"? If someone wants to get through your lock, they will.
Bigger issue is that if *all* of this model lock is hackable in the same way, and quickly, then someone could get into the building and hit many apartments quickly.
Re: (Score:3)
OP here.
Then I got one idea for you:
Farday Cage [wikipedia.org]
Dont remove his devices. Prevent them from communicating with anything.
Re: (Score:2)
you do not want your landlord able to be able to listen in or spy on you!
This fear is overblown, IMO. Listening/spying would be a fairly serious crime, and for what? Unless you're in an active, serious and personal dispute I can't think any landlord would be stupid enough to take that risk. Also, note that since the landlord typically has some access for inspection, potentially when you're not there, if he wanted to install hidden cameras or microphones he could easily do that, so if you're concerned about that, these IoT devices are far from your only worry.
Additionally, what if your landlord is evil, and decides to change your smart lock when your rent is late? Locking you out until you pay?
And what if he de
Re: (Score:3)
I think a lot of times people fail to consider the existing social/legal infrastructure that's in place to defend against various forms of abuse.
Hahaha. That's rich.
According to the fine print in the terms of use, you always give away any rights you might have had to not be abused.
Re: (Score:3)
I think a lot of times people fail to consider the existing social/legal infrastructure that's in place to defend against various forms of abuse.
Hahaha. That's rich.
According to the fine print in the terms of use, you always give away any rights you might have had to not be abused.
But the tenant isn't the purchaser or installer of the equipment and hasn't agreed to the terms of use. The fact that the landlord has agreed to being recorded doesn't make spying on the tenant legal.
Re: (Score:2)
By using the equipment, you agree to the terms of use.
To live in the apt., you have to use the equipment.
So you get spied on, and any social/legal infrastructure is on the side of the tech startup.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know about TX law in particular but I strongly suspect that there are laws against such eviction without proper notice and procedure -- and about keeping the tenant's stuff, since it's locked inside.
Which is something a locksmith might remind him of when he comes to them. The smartlock lowers the barrier to doing something illegal but nonetheless extremely disruptive to the tenant's life, and access to all the smart device monitoring data invisibly to you increases the temptation for snooping - even if it is not cameras and microphones, the knowledge that you often are out until 2am may lead an uptight landlord refusing to renew your lease even though you show no signs of being a bad tenant.
Re:Good and Bad (Score:4, Informative)
Thermostats: The thermostat won't open the doors under the sink, or keep a drip running, and without taking some such measures, the temperature you would need to keep the thermostat at to prevent such problems could well be prohibitive.
Water leak devices, "heat is out" detection? There's a cheaper device, one that pays you monthly.
Door locks? A third party has access to that information, and with the state of internet security, a fourth one will soon. So yay for remote door unlocking. And what about "fail-locked"? The power goes out, your door is locked. Got that physical key? ... and can you actually GET OUT at that point, without breaking a window? yay for high crime areas and bars on windows...
And heaven help you if the smart door lock uses a smart phone app to unlock it. ... a misplaced phone, a drained phone, a phone that has been upgraded without the app (or with the app but without re-syncing the security token), all are hazards.
Re: Good and Bad (Score:2)
How does a physical lock prevent the landlord from locking you out? They can just rekey the physical lock. Maybe not as easy as a click of a mouse, but not hard.
What does your lease say? (Score:2)
Subject.
What rights do tenants have in your state? (Score:5, Insightful)
One would think that tenants have the fundamental right to privacy in their home, and that devices that monitor temperature, power, locks, etc. all violate your privacy because they reveal your usage of the property and your activities.
Re: (Score:2)
This is Texas. They have a right to move, I suppose.
Re: (Score:3)
"One would think that tenants have the fundamental right to privacy in their home,"
You've never spent any time in Texas (Austin excepted) have you? Yes, you have made a reasonable assumption. But, no, it's not true. The authentic Texan answer would be to buy a gun and shoot something that needs killing. Your door lock perhaps. Or maybe your landlord.
Re: (Score:3)
That depends.
Landlords try to put all kinds of things in the lease, but AFAIK none of it trumps state law for tenants rights.
https://www.depts.ttu.edu/sls/... [ttu.edu]
In
every residential lease (oral or written), a tenant has an implied right
to peaceable, quiet enjoyment of the premises. A tenant also has a
right of privacy in her own home.
Understand what you think your rights are, and then try to confirm if your understanding is correct. IANAL. Good luck with the legal stuffs.
Re: (Score:2)
In Connecticut, for instance, those that are on month-to-month leases have significantly more rights that those that are on longer term leases. Its to the point where apartment building that do month-to-month are subject to the voting of the renters on many matters. It depends on how many people are on month-to-month before this kicks in, but it isnt all that many.
Didnt want pets on your property? Too bad
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Would you also argue that the electric meter violates privacy?
No. Those are not usually inside your residence, they are located outside in public.
What about security cameras in a shared parking lot for safety?
No, parking lots are not inside ones residence.
The reality is that just because something is new, doesn't mean it violates your privacy.
Exactly. Something being inside your residence is what is violating your privacy. Which is the situation being described here.
The law has yet to catch up here, and it will probably be some decades before it does.
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it isn't covered by current laws.
Inside your residence is private, and a resident has far more rights to that space than anyone else, including the property owners.
Ever notice how landlords get anal over havin
Unplug Them (Score:2)
And then keep unplugging them if they come in to re-plug them back in.
Make the labor to keep them online cost more than they are helpful.
If they threaten you, then tell them you have concerns that the implementation of the service may violate your privacy rights and will continue to unplug the devices until your concerns are alleviated.
Gang up. (Score:3)
Re: Gang up. (Score:4, Informative)
As for opting out of the install, leasing office gave an emphatic NO, including blocking my community posting asking about opting out.
Timing and leasing office + Smartrent reactions don't feel genuine. They feel like a "STFU and comply peasant" reaction based on existing run books. Smartrent support tows the "we're looking into it" while the leasing staff play back and forth with good cop "I'm interested in your concerns but too dumb to answer technical questions" and bad cop "there is no opt out, we're doing this."
For background, I work in network / cyber security, so I tried to carefully communicate my technical / legal concerns in a clear and concise manner, while also indicating a level of expertise rather than being an ignorant form of Luddite.
Re: Gang up. (Score:3)
Find out all the ways that the system can be hacked and then cause all the apartments to have wild temperature swings, doors locking and unlocking at random - especially good if it's in the landlords office - and all kinds of annoyances.
In many places you as a renter have the legal right to deny the landlord access to your apartment except for emergencies and this isn't an emergency. Non-working electronic devices isn't an emergency either. Check the laws.
they can't remove keys to an smart locks and make (Score:2)
they can't remove keys to an smart locks and make you pay per user? can they.
You said it yourself (Score:3)
They plug into *your* wall socket and steal *your* electricity.
Cut the power.
Re: You said it yourself (Score:2)
And what if the wall outlets runs overvoltage? 230V instead of 115. Of course, some wall warts today cope with both.
Re: You said it yourself (Score:3)
I guess my email this morning about not plugging into *my* metered electricity had an effect.
A cheap Faraday cage around the hub might do it... (Score:2)
A few sheets of decorative metal, a few soldered, brazed or welded joints (or hell, they used to use press-fit in shelf radios), and you've built an easily-removable 6-sided enclosure for the hub that doesn't let "smart" device signals in, nor 4g or wifi connections out, doesn't require you to unplug it.
Wanna go crazy? Tempest-shield the whole apartment! "C'mon in! Take off your foil hat and relax! It's Tempest!"
Hmmm (Score:2)
"Ask Slashdot: What Should I Do About My Landlord Forcing Smart Things Into My Home?"
Maybe if a lot of this smart crap they give you kept going bad from some mysterious cause (like accidentally being microwaved or accidentally connecting 120VAC to the 5VDC power port), then maybe they'd give up and stop spending a fortune to replace it each time.
Re: (Score:2)
I see you getting away with that once, maybe twice, then they start getting added to your rent.
Re: (Score:2)
Charge him for landlords property that's not in his lease? Doubt it.
Better to just use the hell out of it till it breaks. Call daily for him to open your front door because "somebody" gummed the lock". Run your toaster on the dimmer, etc.
Just make it not worth it, and the shit will disappear.
Not a lot of options left (Score:2)
> I don't really have time to file a lawsuit, and my gut tells me every step I take against the landlord is going to bring their more onerous leasing agreement line items on my head.
That certainly limits your options. Further, it probably too late to nicely convince your landlord to skip your apartment until after you move it.
You can ask your neighbors to text you an time the devices don't work, such as being locked out because the lock is screwing up, or if it gets very hot or very cold because the th
Re: (Score:2)
> they keep licking residents out in the middle of the night.
Noice!
Maybe sublease to a lonely lady (Score:2)
I guess if they are licking the residents out, a solution would be to sublease the apartment to a lady who wants that.
Actually that does bring up a serious solution - a sublease. The contact probably says subleases have to be approved by management.
Re: (Score:2)
You can ask your neighbors to text you an time the devices don't work, such as being locked out because the lock is screwing up
I doubt that's going to happen.
Most of those locks should have a manual way to open them even if the power is shut off or the battery is dead.
Move (Score:2)
yw
Retired electronics technician here ... (Score:2)
... and this is no shit.
I was stationed at NAS JAX and we had a circuit board from an aircraft that had a problem in the middle layer. I had my guys mark it BCM (beyond capable maintenance) so it could be returned to Magnavox for a fix.
The chief was adamant that we fix the goddam thing and it sat around for about a week and it was all I heard about.
One night after I let everyone go, I put the board on the cement floor and stomped on it and I left it there.
The day shift found it and left it for the chief. He
Change Your State Of Mind. (Score:2, Funny)
When you rent something, YOU OWN IT, for the period of time of the rental, than you have to RETURN IT. Do you get it, check you rental laws and tell your landlord to fuck off, when you pay the rent, you own the place, when you stop paying rent, you have to return it in the condition provided at the start of your rental. In between property laws apply, you pay the rent, your own it whilst the rent is paid. If that is not the way it is, than become legally and politically active to FUCKING MAKE IT THAT WAY. W
Re: (Score:2)
I've lived in apartments almost my entire adult life. This is not how it is, especially in a red state like mine which heavily favors the landlord (i.e. business) over you as the tenant.
Nothing (Score:2)
Keep in mind that if your having this crap foisted on you it's probably not by a small landlord, it's probably a mega conglomerate (like the one that owns my apartment). They can a
Is it in your rental agreement? (Score:2)
Two things for you on this (Score:2)
2) I totally understand you not liking this be
Re: (Score:2)
What, pray tell, exactly do you fear a dimmer switch learning about you? What do you think said dimmer switch could possibly learn about you that would be worth anything to any company? Based on what you wrote, I would assume you are rational and not crazy. Without a microphone to record your conversations and something/someone to parse that, is there really anything any of these devices could possibly learn about you that is worth any money other than maybe whether you left the apartment (and thus it's ready for robbers to come in)?
1) I can talk to my phone and it types out the words very accurately. Same for Siri, Alexa, etc. Computers can hear and understand and process and compile our words.
2) Over the years I've been stunned at what the data aggregators / analyzers know about people. Do a people search and be amazed at what they put together about people who might otherwise lay low.
3) I don't want them to know when I'm home, when I dim my lights, etc.
4) Why all the voyeurism?
Simple solution (Score:2)
Stick it in a faraday cage...
I've heard rumor of some success by playing the pacemaker card or other medical implants.
An alternative will be to change your primary address to something in California, update your leasing office and that will force them into dealing with CCPA.
Microwave (Score:2)
A very brief visit in the microwave will reduce its voyeuristic ways.
This is all to help take care of you! (Score:2)
If the landlord is paying for heat, I would start with putting his new thermostat in the freezer and opening a few windows. Run your vacuum cleaner, microwave, and toaster all on the dimmer socket at once, and accidentally spill a little water under your sink... in fact, accidentally spill water all over everything. Make sure you remember to forget your keys at least 3x every weekend, and mac filter your wifi.
There is a ton of fun things you can demand of your landlord now that he's lost any form of deni
To address a few of your technical concerns... (Score:4, Informative)
I can't address your (somewhat reasonable) privacy and rights concerns, however I can address a few of your technical concerns:
The only main thing of concern would be the hub. A teardown isn't going to help you -- it's likely fairly common hardware. The concerning part is the software -- and that you don't have access to, so you won't know what sort of information it may be sending to your landlord. But assuming it's violating your privacy, at that point it becomes a legal issue, and not so much a technical issue.
Instead of a teardown, you could try to to plug it into your LAN and do some packet captures to see what information it's sending out and where. I suspect however you'll find that the information is encrypted (which is a normally a good thing TBH), but you can at least capture IP addresses it's trying to connect to, and then see if you can identify who owns them.
Yaz
Resistance is useless (Score:2)
I expect to see lawsuits for a while, but eventually most people will realize that its just another small step in the direction they have already taken by owning cell phones, using commercial operating systems, watching TV, walking in stores with cameras, using credit cards, driving modern cars, etc . With enough effort people will be able to avoid tracking - but eventually that effort will be so large that it will mark them as more "interesting" than tracking would have in the first place.
I think privac
Re: (Score:2)
You're rather America-centric. There are other countries which haven't completely surrendered to the corporate world.
I can see why the landlord might want these things (Score:2)
The smart lock means the landlord/agent (or anyone else who needs access such as a building manager) doesn't need to have large numbers of keys (and having to make sure they grab the right set of keys when they need to visit the building) or going with master keys that create a risk (someone could figure out the master keying and use that to access places they aren't allowed to be).
Also the smart lock means the landlord can more easily change the locks when they change tenants and prevent old tenants and ot
contact your local tenant's rights organization (Score:5, Informative)
many cities have official organizations for tenants rights.
i've seen them be extremely helpful with grounded advice,
and there's a very low barrier to entry. just call.
Re: (Score:2)
crazy is never a good solution
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There is probably no group of tenants who benefit more from smart technology than those with medical conditions.
Re: \o/ (Score:2)
Well it depends on the smart thing. I'm fairly certain the wifi dimmer light in NY pool room does nothing at all for my asthma. And these gun things ain't gonna help nobody either
Re: \o/ (Score:2)
Holy shit autocorrect what are you doing to me "these gun things"? Read as "these hub things"
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You only show your ignorance of security (both physical and cyber) and privacy.
Monitoring usage does nothing for the environment either.
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Should a home owner not have the option to invest their own money in their own home and buy into new tech?
Should a renter have the right to a home kept back decades?
Re 'Monitoring usage does nothing for the environment either"
That would be for the home owner to invest in as its their money to spend... and a renter to use or not... or not rent the home...
Again its part of the home for rent. The person payin
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You're confused, a checkbox on insurance form for having a lock does not mean all locks are equal.
IoT only adds value in the mind of the clueless, those of us who are tech savvy know that 99% of them are utterly insecure and easily compromised.
A home "kept back decades" can be more secure and robust without modern toys good only for mental masturbation.
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That would be something for the home owner and the insurance company to work out... not the renter.
Having locks on the market that dont lock would soon be noticed
Re 'IoT only adds value in the mind of the clueless, those of us who are tech savvy know that 99% of them are utterly insecure and easily compromised."
A home owner has the freedom to buy and invest in anything they feel will add something to a home to attract renters.
T
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Thats for the person who owns the home to consider AC..
Re "The tenant cares about what the tenant/renter's insurance covers"
Thats for the insurance company to work out if the lock was working as expected.
Re "landlord made some minimal effort"
Again AC, something for the insurance company to notice, work out and consider.
No reason not to fit modern locks AC if the owner wants to invest their own money in that product...
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>> The install list is a smart lock (one of the hackable Yale cheapos)
> The lock has to work and be as secure...
You keep using that word secure [youtube.com]. I don't think it means what you think it means.
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> The lock is as secure as a past lock
LOL.
So basically insecure [youtube.com] and worthless. [youtube.com]
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Most places require one to show up for work, even in 2019. You're talking about a house in the sticks with jobs in commute range including being WallMart greeter, gas station attendant and grocery bag boy.
Re: Buy a house now! (Score:2)
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No they wouldnt, if everyone tried to buy instead of rent then the large buy to let companies would be pushed out of the market.
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Re:Buy a house now! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Those homes are cheap because it's not feasible to buy them on account of the local economy, not because nobody wants them. I'm sure you feel good about yourself for being a homeowner though. That's really great for you.
I've considered buying a home way out in BFE myself, but I want to advance my career and make money more than I want to be a homeowner. Working just outside Seattle, I would have to drive at least 2-3 hours before home prices even come down to not-insane levels, and competition is still insa
Re: Is it connected to your cable modem? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Is it connected to your cable modem? (Score:3)
I would rather see the traffic, the IPs and SNIs at least and then expose where all they exfil the data.
Next steps will be MITM decryption attempts and pointing Metasploit at the Hub until it dies.
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Preferably the backup 4G that is in the smarthub the landlord is paying for.